Fixing the Election

This post was written by marc on August 21, 2004
Posted Under: Politics

How will you know if the election is fixed and the press is in on the fix? One simple indicator is if the media decides not to do exit polling. The exit polling would be a strong indicator if the election results deviate from the way people voted. So if you hear the media saying that they have decided NOT to do exit polls – then the fix is in.

Reader Comments

well, another indicator maybe how the media reports during the election process. if bush ‘seems’ to be winning by, let’s say, two points, then they will say that bush has one, election over. if kerry is winning by two points, they’ll say that it’s too close to call, but it seems that bush is starting to lead. just a though.

#1 
Written By charlie chingas on August 21st, 2004 @ 12:32 pm

The truth, the fix is in. You have two candidates at the top of the major parties ballots. Furthermore, they are both members of the Skull and Bones at Yale. You just keep believing that there is a difference between Bush and Kerry, and they will make it seem like you are chosing between two different guys. The fact is that there are both career politicians and they serve someone other than we the people. The people that they serve do not care which one we vote for, because either one will do. The fix has been in on every election since 1913. And the fix is in place when the two candidates are picked in the primary, not when we pick one of them. Common sense says, no tinfoil needed.

#2 
Written By THE TRUTH on August 21st, 2004 @ 6:32 pm

One example the fix is on: Florida, where Jeb Bush advised people voting for President Bush to send their votes as absentee ballots while everyone else votes on one of the electronic machines. It was mentioned in the news for a day or two and it has since disappeared from national news (I don’t know about local papers in Florida).

#3 
Written By Shadow Hawk on August 21st, 2004 @ 6:35 pm

Shadow, anyone can vote absentee ballot.

The popular vote isnt even the vote that counts, the electorial college vote is what really counts. I don’t get why it would matter is the popular vote was fixed or not.

The Truth is right on the fact that Bush and Kerry are pretty much the same… Kerry just scares me way more than Bush ever could. He looks like a deamon to me.

If the elections are fixed they wouldnt start showing it now… would they?

#4 
Written By Jes on August 21st, 2004 @ 8:06 pm

Truth and Jes have hit it on the head.

Kerry & Bush are different pages of the same book, I don’t see the value in even casting a vote this time around. It just doesn’t matter.

#5 
Written By ExactlyRight on August 21st, 2004 @ 8:18 pm

I guess if Bush gets another four year appointment, those who cannot see any difference between Bush and Kerry might see the light….when they are reporting for induction into the military.

Open your bloody eyes, people. Bush intends to remain in office for life. This may very well be your last opportunity to vote.

Maybe.

Our last opportunity may have come and gone in 2000.

If you just sit on your ass and declare there is no difference, then you deserve what you get and should shut the hell up and quit whining.

#6 
Written By Jay on August 22nd, 2004 @ 2:41 am

I recently finished reading Allan Bullock’s “Hitler: A Study in Tyranny”. If you want to read an excellent biography on the techniques Hitler used in his rise to power, this is a great historical and easily readable treatment of the subject. I was fortunate to read this book immediately after “The Gulag Archipelago” (Stalin prison camps, 6 Vols.) where all the techniques of torture were systematically described by witnesses in excruciating detail (e.g., sleep deprivation, starvation, cold temperatures, you name it, they’re all there). Both reads are a must if you have the time.

Highlights of Allan’s treatise on Hitler are interesting to consider in light of the upcoming election. For example, that:

1) Everything Hitler did for the Reich was written in Mein Kampf years before he executed his plans; it rarely, if ever, changed (cf. PNAC).

2) Hitler believed the masses to be ignorant and easily manipulated. It was only a matter of applying the fundamentals of propaganda to persuade them. Recognizing that you “cannot fool all of the people all of time”, Hitler was a master at leading people (allies, foes, etc) beyond the ‘tipping point,’ in which further events made all chances of reversing course impossible (cf. War in Iraq).

3) When you lie, lie big. Himmler (cf. Rove) believed that people were more willing to accept a ‘big lie’ versus a small one, since the latter was possible (at least in their minds) but the former was not (cf Plame). Also, tell these lies often (and of course, to get the full magnitude of these effects requires media cooperation (FOX, CNN, MSNBC).

4) You never give ground. Logic has nothing to do with it. Hitler clearly demonstrated in Mein Kampf that to give ground is to display weakness. To display weakness is to declare weakness, to inject doubt.

Many other points could be made, and Buzzflash readers have probably encountered most of these in the last 6 months or so.

With the backdrop of the above in mind, I then started thinking about the upcoming election.

35% of all voting machines are touch screen electronic machines, generally of the type that can be easily manipulated, e.g., by an adept High School student (shown on TV some months ago), and, if no brains are required, a simple “exchange” of computer chips will do. There will be no “paper trail”. There will be no “audit”. There will be no “re-count”. Without a paper trail, these checks are impossible.

While we are inundated on TV with Kobes, Peterson, Jackson, etc, no one is asking down here in Florida why the Florida Constitution, which requires a re-count in close elections, is to be violated by using machines incapable of a “re-count”. It is interesting to think that a simple paper trail logically should benefit both parties, but the GOP has persistently fought tooth and nail to prevent a paper trail. One must ask themselves, honestly, what is their real motivation?

After the Republican National Convention, there will be a media cry declaring a measurable “bounce” for W (declarations were popular with Hitler), and that once again, the Presidential race will be “neck and neck”. I believe that is the ultimate strategy of the GOP between now and November 1st, to maintain a “neck and neck” race. All they need is the “illusion” that a neck and neck race is underway…

Remember, the total votes in several swing states in 2000 were in the neighborhood of 10,000 votes, more or less. Florida, and I think one or two other states, were under 1,000. When you “control” 30+ million votes with machines that cannot be “verified”, I do not think it takes a stretch of the imagination to see that manipulating a few thousand votes would hardly be a problem at all.

I’d like to think Kerry has a Constitutional chance to win. But like the Reich (cf GOP), the Constitution was only a piece of paper, an instrument that necessarily must be violated from time to time, without recourse, because the means justified the ends of the Party. To a right-winger, Providence would justify this – remember, Bush said a few days ago that “God speaks through me”.

One additional note. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but Rush Limbaugh has preached all week to his dittomonkies to be “prepared” for the upcoming legal challenges by the Democrats following the 2004 election. The Democrats will dispute it, Rush preaches, “…and declare the election invalid and try to throw the whole mess into litigation.” Can you say: “Greasing the rails?”

Remember, any display of weakness, ANY, will be perceived by the ‘masses’ as doubt.

#7 
Written By Jim Johnson on August 22nd, 2004 @ 2:43 am

Jay, who is whining? In 1999everybody was saying that Clinton is going to stop the election. He wants to remain in office for life. Where do you people come up with this rap?

Jim, how do you figure that there is no paper trail with electronic voting machines? The machines are made by the same company that makes cash station machines. Whenever I have gone to the cash station machine I have never taken out the wrong amount of cash, the machine has always given me a piece of paper the correctly indicated the amount taken, and at the end of the month my bank has always sent me a statement that correctly indicated the amount taken. It is just as easy to manipulate electronic elections, as it is to manipulate punch cards as it is to manipulate piece of paper where you put a check in the box next to the guys name. The only way to do it without error is to say everyone who is for Kerry get west of the Mississippi River and everyone who is for Bush get East of the Mississippi River. Even if we did that, the Democrats would employ a member of the famous Daley clan out of Chicago to somehow change the count.

#8 
Written By THE TRUTH on August 22nd, 2004 @ 6:07 am

The facist similarities are creep if you look Hillary’s thoughts on government. And H-I-L-L-A-R-Y is the closest a Demaocrat could come to spelling H-I-T-L-E-R correctly. If you do not things like the PATRIOT ACT write your congressman, he passed the bill.

#9 
Written By THE TRUTH on August 22nd, 2004 @ 10:01 am

hey truth, just because the same company would makes ATM machines is making the voting machines, does not mean that one will be able to get a receipt for their vote. that company (diebold) has YET to provide reassurances about their code, that is hacker proof. i’m a programmer, and i am VERY familiar with systems like that. wouldn’t you want some assurance that these systems are hackker proof? why is the code being kept secret? and, there will be not receipt. it’s just another one of those “you have to trust us”. and as for your comment about hillary: like i mentioned in another post, why is it that when someone posts something that may have some validity to it regarding the current administration, people like you scream clinton, hillary, reno. like you tell people truth, provide some links to where people can go to see ‘the truth’. there is another war being waged here in the US: it’s a pshychologica war, the government heading it, regardless if it’s democrats or republicans. most people just believe what their side says, or they visit a few sites and see only a part of the big picture. why do conservatives refuse to see the similarity from the current administration to hitler? oh yeah, doubting makes one weak, an no one wants to be perceived as weak.

#10 
Written By charlie chingas on August 22nd, 2004 @ 10:23 am

Charlie, look at the similarities between our government since 1913, and the government of Hitler. It is not Bush. It is the whole damn bunch of them. Kerry is one of the bunch. They have been moving in this direction since we gave control of our currency to an unelected government. It is not Bush’s fault. It is the fault of an ignorant American electorate. The American voters are to blame. As Hitler said, “It is a great thing for leaders that the average man is stupid.” He was talking about voters.

Charlie, when I was a Democratic Precinct Captain in Chicago, the second election that we used those stupid punch cards one precinct in the 3rd ward had a 102% turnout, that is right 102%. And every person voted the exact same way. What happen is the precinct captain sent one card through, repeatedly. His only stupidity was sending it through more times than he had registered voters. You have NEVER seen your vote counted, and NEVER will. Why does it matter now when it did not matter before?

#11 
Written By THE TRUTH (Tomocius for Jay) on August 22nd, 2004 @ 11:35 am

hey, tom, like i’ve said before, i agree with you. what upsets me is people refuse to see the whole picture. all they see what the dems have done, what the repubs have done. and i think you’re 1913 date is a bit off. 1908: that’s when oil was discovered in persia, what is now known as iraq.. as for that voting thing. did you hear what happened during the california recall, where the governator was elected? in some counties, electronic voiting machines were used, and the total votes exceeded that of actual registered voters. what did they do? no bother doing anything since muscle-head is going to win anyways.. scary shit…

#12 
Written By charlie chingas on August 22nd, 2004 @ 11:51 am

See, we do not need to take back this country from Bush and the Republicans or Clinton and the Democrats. We need to take it back from the stupid ass voters. Maybe the right to vote is not such a good thing.

#13 
Written By TOMOCIUS for Jay on August 22nd, 2004 @ 12:02 pm

you’re right. extreme people, ignorant, racist, etc should not vote. that leaves? people should vote for those who are qualified and will work for the people. not vote because he speaks simple like me, he’s a good christian, he’s rich, he likes ketchup… some people will vote for kerry because he’s not bush. some people will vote for bush because they have extreme hatred in their hearts and don’t like ‘liberals.’ yes, if anyone’s to blame for the state of this country, it’s the people, for being quite and complacent. we may not agree with perkel at times, be has the right idea: keep your minds open. stop letting the government think for you!

#14 
Written By charlie chingas on August 22nd, 2004 @ 4:49 pm

A point of reference–Persia is not present-day Iraq, but rather Iran. Many Iraqis (which are almost exclusively of Arabic descent) would be very offended to be referred to as Persians.

In the spirit of being reasonable, I will admit that Perkel’s intent is not entirely bad–it is good to challenge authority, it’s a rather American idea. However, he emplys sensationalism and other forms of Yellow Journalism that would make Pulitzer blush to an extent that he alienates the people he should be targeting–the ‘neocons,’ ‘illuminati,’ ‘moonies,’ and the other members and/or follows of the alleged VRWC.

#15 
Written By Mance on August 22nd, 2004 @ 5:22 pm

hey mance, take a look at a very old map: iraq and iran are only a part of what persia once was. hint: ottoman empire. as for marc and his ‘sensationalism’: fox news, amongst other ‘news’ outlets, do the same thing. as long as they get viewers, ratings, who cares about accurate news reporting? and, one cannot depend on one source to catch the current evetns.

#16 
Written By charlie chingas on August 22nd, 2004 @ 6:16 pm

Actually…the Ottoman empire and Persia were two different animals entirely. Kinda like how Iraqis and the followers of Bin Laden are two completely different types.

But, hell…what difference does it make? It’s just too much effort to understand a people that we have invaded. Gets in the way of killing. We’ll just make up history as we go along.

Remember to follow the example of our fearless war leader…stupid is as stupid does.

#17 
Written By Jay on August 22nd, 2004 @ 6:42 pm

hey jay, you’re right. thanks for setting me straight. i iz a sheep too. thems just ragheads anyways, and we is amerikans. so who cares?

#18 
Written By charlie chingas on August 22nd, 2004 @ 7:36 pm

what’s sad about it, i’ve met people who think like that…

#19 
Written By charlie chingas on August 22nd, 2004 @ 7:36 pm

Charlie, on the vote thing. There was a time that only land owners were able to vote. I am not sure that was right. All white men were then allowed to, then women, and then all blacks. Next, residence who are not citizens will be allowed. Sure, after we except giving them drivers licenses, there will be a push to get them the right to vote.

What is more sad than that? I’ll tell you what I think is more sad than that. I think that having the right to vote is a privilege, and you should exercise your right to vote. But, what about people who do not vote? Yes, I would agree that not voting is actually a vote. But, that is only true if your vote is not to vote because you do not think any candidate is worthy of your vote. But the people who never bother to vote are actually to lazy to vote. That hurts the system.

Then we have candidates who win an election with 52% of the votes cast, but the votes cast was only 26% of the eligible voters. Leaving you and me being represented by people think that they are on a mandate with only 12% of the voters wanting them.

#20 
Written By TOMOCIUS for Jay on August 22nd, 2004 @ 8:45 pm

i feel your pain. same thing happened in california. davis one relection by what, 50.999999999%? of course i’m bein sarcastic, but you get the idea.

#21 
Written By charlie chingas on August 22nd, 2004 @ 9:21 pm

OK, here is the difference between bush and kerry on ISSUES.

http://www.presidentmatch.com/Compare.jsp2?idlist=5|10|

“The Truth is right on the fact that Bush and Kerry are pretty much the same… Kerry just scares me way more than Bush ever could. He looks like a deamon to me.”

so being a emotionaly challenged president doesn’t scare you as much as a ugly one?..that looks like a “deamon”, w/e that is. Maybe you ment demon. If I could vote I know I wouldn’t vote for looks I would vote for issues.

#22 
Written By Joshua Gillogly on August 23rd, 2004 @ 5:46 am

Well Josh, there are two reasons that I am glad that you cannot vote. The first is pretty basic … You cannot read. I NEVER said that Kerry looked like a demon. You are putting words in my mouth. The other is that the things that they believe are a far cry from the things that they intend to do. Let’s take Kerry for example. For all the things that opposes and supports how many bills has he written or co-written in order to further his issues? To believe something is on thing, to do something about it is another thing.

#23 
Written By THE TRUTH on August 23rd, 2004 @ 6:13 am

Wills, you and I agree on one thing. Our election process sucks. It helps the FAKE two party system thrive.

When we go to the polling place on the day of the primary we must choose between the ballot that we want Democrat, Republican, or Independant. This is solely to divide and conquer. And it works.

Here is how I believe it should work … When you walk into the polling booth you should have the right to vote one of every candidate running for each office. If you want to vote for a Republican presidential candidate, and a Democratic Senatorial candidate you are barred from one.

I do not like the second choice bullcrap. But here is what I like. In the primary, every candidate is listed on one ballot. Voters should know who is affiliated with what party. Now, if a candidate gets 51% of the vote in the primary he wins. If nobody gets 51% of the vote, the two highest vote getters go into the general election for a run off. Now, my way Bush still would have lost the election, for I doubt that many Nader voters would have voted for Bush. But, under my system Clinton NEVER would have won because all of Ross Perot’s voters were conservative and would have voted for Bush Sr. and Dole. That was the reason that the establishment ran Perot in both election, they knew that one on one Clinton could never have won.

But, for you and I as voters, nobody should hold office unless they receive 50+% of the vote, EVER. I feel strongly about that.

But, our TWO PARTY system will NEVER allow that because it threatens their very existance.

It’s nice to agree with you on something.

#24 
Written By THE TRUTH on August 23rd, 2004 @ 6:39 am

Wills, I am not on board with the greed thing. The desire to make money is what has started every single company in the world today. If none of us desired to make money we would all be sitting in a cave and heating it by campfire. What is greed? Would you came work for me if I paid your living expenses, and I dictated that your living expense could only be the bare minimum, Needed shelter, needed transportation, and needed food? EVERY single man is laced with greed, just different degrees of greed. If you work for more money than you NEED, you are greedy.

#25 
Written By THE TRUTH on August 23rd, 2004 @ 6:50 am

Regarding the Post by “The Truth” on voting machines and paper trails.

Your comment to my post detailing the upcoming theft of the elections is, plainly, nonsensical. I’d like to respond but answering a blank page would be easier.

Let me type it in caps, perhaps then you’ll better understand.

IF THERE IS NO PAPER TRAIL YOU CANNOT DO A RECOUNT, BECAUSE THERE IS NO “AUDITING” OF THE VOTES, I.E., NO PAPER TRAIL.

Can you follow that? If that is too deep for you, there is nothing more I can offer.

I get a receipt when I buy a popsicle. I expect a fucking receipt when I vote for President.

The GOP in several states stopped the introduction of paper receipts. That is a facist move, plain and simple.

FootNote: We are the ONLY country in the world who does not have paper receipts for voting on touch screen machines. Indeed, in the recent “Recall” election in Veneuzuela paper receipts were provided for voters. Oh, I forgot, we’re the Banana Republic now.

Duh, wonder why?

#26 
Written By Jim Johnson on August 23rd, 2004 @ 8:52 am

Jim Johnson, have you ever taken money from a cash station machine and not received a paper receipt? I have, but at the end of the month it still showed up on the bank statement. I would like to see it from your point of view, but I cannot get my head that far up my ass.

Come see me when you vote, I’ll give you a receipt.

#27 
Written By THE TRUTH on August 23rd, 2004 @ 10:16 am

hey truth, have you ever uses any of those paperless voting machines? i have. i also have a friend who has worked on them. there is NO way for receipt to printed out, since it’s not part of those particular machines. also, the code is closely guarded. one must be able to verify that these machines are hacker proof, but some companies are refusing to allow their code to be review. and don’t give me about companies protecting their source code. you can give enough code in order for to review it. will you get a receipt in the mail after you vote to verify that you did vote? and i you could get your head up your ass, maybe u should join a circus…

#28 
Written By charlie chingas on August 23rd, 2004 @ 11:28 am

Charlie, I do not want a paper trail of my vote. For if there is a paper trail of my vote others can find out how I voted. That removes the whole thing about my vote being private. I do not want a piece of paper floating around with my vote on it. Besides, you do not get a piece of paper now when you vote. You punch your card, and hand the card in, you do not have any receipt that indicates how you voted.

And let me tell you another thing. After having been a candidate twice myself. When the polls close your punch cards are bundle together and then two election judges get into a car and drive those cards to a central counting center, generally the county clerks office, for counting. During my last election the polling judges left a polling place at 9PM and showed up at the clerks office at 12:30AM. That was three and one half hours to drive 11 miles in a rural county on a weeknight.

Charlie, don’t get caught in the stupid trap.

#29 
Written By THE TRUTH on August 23rd, 2004 @ 11:49 am

ok, truth, you have point there not wanting a paper trail of your voting habits. now, my thing, how will you know if your vote was actually counted or even recorded? how can we be absoslutely sure that these machines work the way that they are suppose to? how do we know that they have not been comprimised? look what happened in california recently. electronic voting machines were used, then recorded more votes than registered voters for a particular county. what was done? nothing, because they knew that muscle head was going to win anyways.

#30 
Written By charlie chingas on August 23rd, 2004 @ 1:11 pm

“Well Josh, there are two reasons that I am glad that you cannot vote. The first is pretty basic … You cannot read. I NEVER said that Kerry looked like a demon. You are putting words in my mouth.”

LMFAO, tom you crack me up, I wasn’t quoting you big boy, I was quoting Jes so I didn’t put that stuff about you, its apparent that you think people are after you and you are scared, it’s funny. The sad thing about your statement is you just proved to me you can not read.

#31 
Written By Joshua Gillogly on August 23rd, 2004 @ 5:49 pm

“Suppose you had a situation where ballots were handed to a private company that counted them behind closed doors and burned the results. Nobody buy an idiot would accept a system like that. We’ve got something that is almost as bad with electronic voting.”

David Dill, Stanford University Computer Science Professor
Founder of VerifiedVoting.org

Lots of people who know the inner workings of computer systems have said something similair. How is this American?

#32 
Written By charlie chingas on August 23rd, 2004 @ 7:25 pm

Josh and Wills, you are both stupid. Below you can both read the quote taken Josh’s post. He has quote end-quote the statement that I refer to. I will pay either one $1,000 if you can point out the reference to Jes in this post. Jes was NEVER mentioned in the whole post. Josh the year after they teach you to spell they will teach you what quotes are use for and how to use them.

“The Truth is right on the fact that Bush and Kerry are pretty much the same… Kerry just scares me way more than Bush ever could. He looks like a deamon to me.”

#33 
Written By tomocius on August 24th, 2004 @ 11:38 am

seems jes is voting based on looks. althought i’ve never seen a deamon, other than on a computer. i’ve seen demons, though..

#34 
Written By charlie chingas on August 24th, 2004 @ 11:53 am

Wills, here is a subject that I LOVE to argue. Who should get tax cuts. First, you have to pay in order to receive a tax cut.

The top 1% of the income earners ($719,000) is 1.2 million families. They have 15% of the wealth. They pay 21% of all taxes, and 29% of all income tax.

Ratio 1:15:21:29

The top 5% of the income earners ($276,000) is 5.9 million families. They have 28% of the wealth. They pay 37% of all taxes, and 50% of all income tax.

Ratio 5:28:37:50

The top 10% of the income earners ($188,000) is 11.9 million families. They have 39% of the wealth. They pay 49% of all taxes, and 63% of all income taxes.

Ratio 10:39:49:63

The bottom 20% of all income earners does not pay taxes at all The second bottom 20% pays 1%. The first requisite for receiving a tax cut, is you have to pay taxes.

5% of all people pay 50% of all taxes, and who should get a tax cut? It is that 5% who take their wealth and invest to give you a job.

READ THIS AND SEE IF YOU BETTER UNDERSTAND …

Let’s put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, 10 men go out for dinner. The bill for all 10 comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

The fifth would pay $1.

The sixth would pay $3.

The seventh $7.

The eighth $12.

The ninth $18.

The 10th man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that’s what they decided to do. The 10 men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.

“Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20.”

So now dinner for the 10 only cost $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.

So, the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six, the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share’?

The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being PAID to eat their meal.

So the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).

The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).

The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).

The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).

The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).

The 10th now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

“I only got $1 out of the $20,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the 10th man and exclaimed, “But he got $10!”

“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved $1, too. It’s unfair that he got 10 times more than me!”

“That’s true!!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”

“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison. “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!” The nine men surrounded the 10th and beat him up.

The next night the 10th man didn’t show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore. There are lots of good restaurants in Europe and the Caribbean.

#35 
Written By tomocius on August 24th, 2004 @ 7:19 pm
#36 
Written By tomocius on August 25th, 2004 @ 3:20 am

I love how you didn’t state how many people are in bottom 40%. If any of that resturant crap was real you would include accurate #’s of how people are compared to each.. Also you have proven nothing, we all understand the more money you have the more you pay on your tax’s. If I made millions upon millions why would I complain so much about tax’s? because is reality they don’t need any more money.

#37 
Written By Joshua Gillogly on August 25th, 2004 @ 6:41 am

And if you do not have money and you are not doing anything to get more, than you do not need any more. I guy who wants nothing, and has nothing is richer than a guy who wants everything, and half of everything. I did not state how many people are in the bottom 40 because it is irrelevant. It is just a number. Nobody is at the bottom and stays there for any other reason than they do nothing to get out of there. If somebody chooses not to work and has nothing, does not mean he is entitled to what I work for.

#38 
Written By tomocius on August 25th, 2004 @ 7:58 am

“If any of that resturant crap was real you would include accurate #’s of how people are compared to each..”

The resturant does use real numbers. For every guy at the top there is 4-5 wallowing at the bottom trying to eat for free.

#39 
Written By tomocius on August 25th, 2004 @ 8:05 am

hmm maybe they should go to the grocery store? see this endless debate on taxing the rich more then the non rich will go on forever, it is a issue that both sides will never win. Just like abortions and the seperation of church and state.

#40 
Written By Joshua Gillogly on August 25th, 2004 @ 12:32 pm

so anyways, maybe they are not fixing the election. bush probably knows he’s not going to win, so he’s smearing kerry, so when he gets into office, no one will like him. also, all these laws that bush is passing (or will pass) to help his buddies, being passed at the last minute, will be an indicator if the elections are fixed.

#41 
Written By charlie chingas on August 25th, 2004 @ 1:53 pm

If you are trying to figure out if the fix is in by looking at the general election, you are looking in the wrong place for the right answer. The fix comes in the primary. Once the establishment has the two desired candidates at the top of the ballot, we can fight about, and elect either one. They do not care which one it is. Kerry and Bush will both serve the people who elect them.

Rothchild once said … “Give me control of a countries currency, and I care not who makes their laws.”

But he does care that the guy who makes their laws does not take back control of the currency (like Kennedy and Reagan). Neither Kerry, nor Bush will take back control of the currnecy. So either will do.

#42 
Written By tomocius on August 27th, 2004 @ 7:00 am

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