June 13, 2004

PayPal Sucks - Closed my Account - Keeping my Money

I'm in the process of building my PayPal sucks site and this blog entry is the first step. It's the art of being an asshole. I'm sure I'm not the only one that PayPal has ripped off and probably won't be the last - but I will be the one they remember the most.

I got an email today from PayPal that they are closing my account. The reason for closing my account is that they claim they don't like the content of my web site - specifically my site on Sexual Issues where I have my Men's Guide to Escort Services - a guide to interacting with hookers, The Nerd's Guide to Sex - a guide teaching men how to properly have sex with women, and The Shy Girl's Guide to Becoming a Whore - a women's guide to surviving the Bush Ecomony.

So - because they didn't like my web site content they not only decided to cancel my PayPal account - but to also keep my money for 180 days. And - I had transfered my money out of PayPal yesterday - but after closing my account today they reversed yesterday's transaction and are going to steal my money.

The people at PayPay are real mother fuckers. But I to am an asshole and I don't get mad - I get even. Whenever I get screwed by someone I use my talents of being a real prick to turn the tables on them and make them feel the heat.

PayPal claims that according to their End User Agreement that they have the right to close down my account for any reason whatsoever - without any form of recourse - keep my money for 180 days - and there's nothing that I can do about it. Well Paypal you on wrong about that because there's a lot to do about it.

I am a person who values free speech and fights hard against censorship and the Corparations like eBay who owns PayPay who think they can come in and tell ME what I can say on the Internet. Well I say - fuck you PayPal! I will not only keep my right to FREE SPEECH but I will use that right to expose you for what you really are.

Now - for those of you who are reading this - you probably don't entirely grasp the details of what I'm talking about. You think - this is PayPal - they have to be more ethical than that don't they? I say - yes they do. So I called them on the phone about it to get them to explain it to me in their own words. And I RECORDED THE CONVERSTATION IN THIS MP3 FILE SO YOU ALL CAN HERE IT FOR YOURSELF!

First things first. The file you are listening to is edited. But the important content is unaltered. I removed about 20 minutes of on hold messages so that you wouldn't have to sit through the wait time. The rest of it is everything that was said between me and PayPal.

What really fun about this is that I got them to say just exactly what they did to me and how they ripped me off and how they aren't going to do anything to fix it. What you hear is a real life detailed experience that I had and what PayPal's end user agreement really means to you - so that if you are thinking about doing business with PayPal - or you are already a PayPal or eBay customer - you might want to reread that user agreement and see if this is really what you want to be agreeing to.

In the recorded conversation - after getting them to plainly explain how they are screwing me - I anounce to them that I have recorded this phone call - and that I'm going to put it on the Internet. All of a sudden it is them flipping out and screaming about their rights - but - there's nothing they can do about it. You see - I'm not the only one who has no choice. When I dialed up PayPal - the very first thing their machine said was, "This call may be recorded." So - I recorded it. Listen to the squeal about their rights - but I don't give a fuck about their rights because they don't give a fuck about my rights.

The big corps think they hold all the cards - but there are things that we consumers can do to fight back. After all 0 this is a country of the people, by the people, and for the people. Not of big corporation who think they can enslave us and walk over us any time they want to. I want this web site to be a turtorial about how people like you and me can stand up to these motherfuckers and show them that the People rule. And we do that by taking money out of their pockets.

Now - there are plenty of other people out there with similar stories of being censored or otherwise ripped off be PayPal and the comment section is open for you to tell your PayPal story. Go ahead and put in links to other PayPay sucks sites and tell us who is better. It's time that the online community organized to move away from unethical corporations like eBay who owns PayPal and find services who will play ball with us on OUR TERMS.

And - I want you to let PayPal know that you saw this web site and let them know what you think aboiut it. Here is an Email Form to tell them - you saw it hear - you listened to the recording - and what you think about it.

One think to keep in mind is - PayPal is not a bank - nor do you have the protection that banks offer. They are also not a credit card company. They act like they are a fiscal instution but Master Card and Visa aren't playing moral police with me. And as you can see - if they decide to take your money - they just take it. Even if you transfer your money out of paypal the day before they close your account.

Also - if you are going to link to this page - don't use the blog url. Use this URL instead:


Here's another PayPal Warning Site I found.

Other PayPal Sucks Sites:


What is PayPal?

PayPal is an online service that allows you to email money to other people.


Why is my account access limited?

Your account access has been limited for the following reason(s):
# Jun. 13, 2004: In accordance with PayPal's User Agreement and Acceptable Use Policy, we have closed your account. Your funds may be held for 180 days from the date of your last transaction. After 180 days, you will be able to access your funds by requesting an online bank transfer or, if applicable, a check from PayPal. Please update your address or bank information as we cannot be held responsible for checks issued to an incorrect address. We do ask that you please remove reference(s) to PayPal from your site.

(Your case ID for this reason is PP-040-853-646.)

Posted by marc at June 13, 2004 07:59 PM | TrackBack

i feel for u mate.. i had my paypal account closed, and by the time i was able to come back to the civilized world to do anything,(was out in the outback) my money, my account all gone.The reason they gave me was inactivity on my account so they took it to themselves to close and wipe my money clean.Your reasons was more obsecure.. wat does an online content (what u write on the net) has anything to do with paypal?

screw them real good!

Posted by: ixnay at June 13, 2004 09:11 PM

Large corporations are all, repeat, all crooked. You will need a website the size of Siberia to contain all the "so and so sucks" information. Let me suggest:


They are Re-animated Companies. They take a company that has been sold (aka dead) and artificially re-animate it with money from absentee stock-holders. These Frankenstein's Monsters are ruling the world. Nice, huh?

They are evil incarnate. Whaddaya gonna do?

Posted by: Dancho at June 13, 2004 09:49 PM

the URL to the MP3 is 404, bro.


Posted by: drew niese at June 13, 2004 10:01 PM

As far as the reversal of transaction goes, I think you have a legitimate right to complain.

But I don't think you can call foul as far as PayPal's closing your account is concerned.

From the "User Agreement for PayPal Services":

"This User Agreement ("Agreement") is a contract between you and PayPal, Inc. and applies to your use of the PayPalô payment service and any related products and services available through www.paypal.com (collectively the "Service"). If you do not agree to be bound by the terms and conditions of this Agreement, please do not use or access our Services.

You must read, agree with, and accept all of the terms and conditions contained in this Agreement and the Privacy Policy, which include those terms and conditions expressly set out below and those incorporated by reference, before you may become a member of PayPal. We strongly recommend that, as you read this Agreement, you also access and read the information contained in the other pages and websites referred to in this document, as they may contain further terms and conditions that apply to you as a PayPal user. Please note: underlined words and phrases are links to these pages and websites. By accepting this Agreement, you also agree that your use of other PayPal websites and Services will be governed by the terms and conditions posted on those websites."

One of the links is the "Acceptable Use Policy", and one of the examples of prohibited services/sites is "information sites or directories that provide links to adult sites or escort services".

PayPal isn't telling you what you can and can't say on the internet. They're not shutting your site down. Private companies *do* have the right to dictate what their services can and can't be used for.

PayPal didn't close your account because of something so arbitrary as "they don't like the content of your web site". They closed it because you broke terms of usage that you had agreed to when you signed up for their services in the first place.

Posted by: MadBlue at June 14, 2004 03:49 AM

Never, NEVER keep a large balance with Paypal. Damn, 6 months sure seems like a long time to keep somebody's money! That's a helluva float! Whatever happened to 30 days, 60 days, even 90 days? Okay, so 6 months go by and then what - They make your money disappear for inactivity like that poor Aussi who was outback!?

Posted by: richard at June 14, 2004 04:14 AM

Hey, that recording was funny as hell. Well, obviously, congress has to legislate laws to protect the consumer against paypal/ebay. I never use paypal when I put something up for auction on ebay. Hey, just imagine, ebay just closed my account for a bullshit infraction. That means that they probably would have frozen my paypal account too.

How's that song go... Alicia, Alicia...la la la la

Posted by: richard at June 14, 2004 04:35 AM

I don't buy keeping the money for 6 fucking months to cover potential complaints. I mean, what if they had already sent you the money; how would they cover their complaints then?

Posted by: richard at June 14, 2004 04:43 AM

If PAYPAL is acting as any merchant account, they reserve the right to hold funds to handle claims. As a businessman I am not totally bothered by this, if you agree to it. But, I do believe the owner of the account should earn ALL the interest from those funds. Now, I'll go listen to the tape.

Posted by: X-FREEPER at June 14, 2004 06:14 AM

"PayPal still faces probes by the FTC and other states regarding how it does business, including procedures dealing with times when product is not delivered after payment is received, and PayPal's account-freezing policies."


Posted by: Babylonian at June 14, 2004 07:51 AM

Mark, I was reading one of your err... other sites...lol....hey, I don't mean to burst your bubble but...BUT... the reason those escorts were telling you that you are so good in bed is because...err.......u were PAYING them and they wanted a tip plus more business in the future.

Posted by: richard at June 14, 2004 07:57 AM

No, I think that since Paypal's own recording said that the conversation would be recorded puts Mark in the clear.

Posted by: richard at June 14, 2004 11:17 AM

Dude... you got your Paypal logo right there on your site. Gotta get rid of that...

Posted by: Dancho at June 14, 2004 02:55 PM

your blog on Reagan must have offended Paypal.

Posted by: celery at June 14, 2004 05:51 PM

I don't have a problem with Paypal canceling his account, because they're notorious for not dealing with immoral (to them) stuff. Marc's site does push the comfort level (though I find it informative and hilarious, but that's just me.) And, anyway, that's their right. They can do business with whoever they want. And I can do business with whoever I want. No one's forcing people to use Paypal. Plenty of alternatives out there.

But I do have a serious problem with their holding his funds. They should freeze his account, so that he can only move his funds out, and do nothing else. But tying up his cash is, in my opinion, severely unethical. Not sure what can be done about it, though, except spread the word and cost them business. Worked for me. I avoid Paypal whenever possible now.

So--anyway. I'm starting up an Internet business later this year, and need reviews on digital currency, since Paypal is out. Was out a long time ago. I've heard this happen to lots of people. Anybody use e-gold or its competitors? What did you think?

And, yeah, I was wondering about the legality of taping people without their consent/knowledge. Anybody know the relevant statute? What kind of trouble has Marc got himself into?

Posted by: curt at June 14, 2004 05:58 PM




I guess there are states that have a two party notification law..but most states require single...and since you consented at the beginning of the conversation...when they asked...not that there seemed to be a choice offered to you of a press 1 if you consent, or press 2 if you do not...seems to me when they announce it they are just telling you they are and you have no choice.
The recording of the call was good...

Posted by: minerva at June 14, 2004 08:14 PM

Marc, that was the most enjoyable hour I just spent, reading your page and listening to that recording.

Its time big business gets back to basics and realizes just where they get these big bucks from..US. The people. Our little pocketbooks feed their big executive salaries and its time they felt the pinch, just as we have to.

I am cancelling my PayPal account today. Not that my little amount will hurt them, but spreading the word will. I realize that PayPal was bought by eBay, but new auction sites are opening up daily. Competition is good!!!

And to anyone who wants to go the 'moral route', go right ahead! I've been with Ctyme hosting for two years and nothing on Marc's site bothers me at all. AND, I'm a 60 year old lady, widowed and mother to a wonderful young man. If it doesn't bother me, it shouldn't bother anyone!!

You go, Marc!!

Posted by: Nightwalker at June 15, 2004 03:13 AM

Enough paypal already.

You know, after everything the White House has put this country of ours through, Cheney, despite it all, is in Florida perpetuating the lie that there was a link between Al Qaida and Sadam Hussein! This clown makes me want to puke!


Cheney Claims al-Qaida Linked to Saddam

Mon Jun 14, 8:00 PM ET Add White House - AP to My Yahoo!

By MIKE SCHNEIDER, Associated Press Writer

ORLANDO, Fla. - Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites) said Monday that Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) had "long-established ties" with al Qaida, an assertion that has been repeatedly challenged by some policy experts and lawmakers

The vice president offered no details backing up his claim of a link between Saddam and al Qaida.

"He was a patron of terrorism," Cheney said of Hussein during a speech before The James Madison Institute, a conservative think-tank based in Florida. "He had long established ties with al Qaida."

Posted by: richard at June 15, 2004 04:09 AM

Unbelievable. PayPal doesn't like YOUR free speech, and gets all whiny when you expose their idiocy.

Ass soon as I drain my account, say buh-bye, Pay-former-"Pal"...

Posted by: gino at June 15, 2004 06:19 AM

Hold the account for 180 days for reversals? Yeah Right!

I got ripped off on eBay, payed with Paypal. Suppose to come in 3 days (express). After 7 days didn't show up. Seller's eBay account NARU'ed. Couldn't contact seller so I filed a Buyer complaint to reverse the transaction to get a refund of my money. After a week of Paypal "investigation", Paypal said they couldn't refund my money because there is NO FUNDS in the account! Why coundn't they reverse it?!?!

Posted by: Mr. A at June 15, 2004 11:35 AM

"This call may be recorded."

Not a complicated concept!

"May" implies a grant of permission; "might" implies the possibility of something occurring. (If I say you MAY use the phone, that is very different than saying you MIGHT use the phone. One conveys my approval for your engaging in that particular activity; the other conveys my assessment of your future activities.)

Marc's right, PayPal's wrong, and they (to be frank) are more fucked than Anna Nicole Smith if they think holding funds for 6 months is REASONABLE.

In the age of electronic banking, 180 days is an ETERNITY, and completely indefensible.

In my opinion.


Posted by: Tammy at June 15, 2004 03:18 PM

Ok get ready, I've had my own experiences with Paypal. You're going to love this (all dates are estimated, as its been a while now):

Early February, 2003 - I bought an item on ebay (a video card for a PC) for 250 dollars. I was a longtime user of paypal AND ebay, (4+ years) and I had joined my bank account (via a Mastercard debit card) to my Paypal account, to facilitate easy payments direct from my bank account to people I bought from on ebay.

Late February, 2003 - I found out the auction was a scam, the seller (one Donald Mann of Vermont) had bilked 30 or 40 people on ebay all at once out of something like 50,000 dollars, and then comitted suicide to tie up all the money in his estate, hoping, I can only suppose, that the people who were cheated would not want to waste the years necessary to get their money back from his estate. I learned all this from multiple sources, including a direct call to the police in his hometown. I first petitioned Squaretrade to refund my money, because he had a sign on his auctions that he was verified with Squaretrade for insured protection for buyers. Squaretrade (after a 3 week investigation) ruled in my favour, but told me I was only able to claim, as ANY of the people Mann had scammed were able to claim, up to 125.00 dollars. I do not know why the amount was arbitrary like that, but perhaps Mann had only had 125.00 protection. He NOR Squaretrade mentioned this at any time on either his website, his auctions, or his personal page on Squaretrade's website. Some of the people scammed by Mann had lost thousands of dollars, so I don't doubt they were even more angry than me that they couldn't recover their money!

Early March, 2003 - My next step was to request that Paypal cancel my payment to Mann, as I knew they were capable of doing, and suggested they tie up all payments together (everyone had used paypal to pay Mann, he didn't accept any other form of payment as I recall) and go after Mann's estate personally. As a major corporation, Paypal would have no problems getting their money out of his estate without too much work. Now, I'm aware this is not something Paypal had any obligation to do, but it would have been a nice gesture of good customer service, as they HAD sponsored Mann as a verfied business customer. It was no big surprise when they told me to shove off. I then asked them if they had any sort of user protection for fraudulent sellers, sort of a "blanket all" policy to protect buyers using Paypal's system. They informed me they did, but it only covered up to 75 dollars worth of purchasing power. SEVENTY FIVE DOLLARS. I informed Paypal they had taken more than that from me in one single fee for a payment received (I'd done tens of thousands of dollars worth of business through paypal since 98/99) and asked them just to be a bit more helpful. They again told me to shove off.

Mid March, 2003 - At this point I decided to go over their heads and contact Mastercard. They were extremely helpful and I was able to cancel the payment with a single 15 minute phone call.

The next day however, I woke up to find that Paypal had noticed this immediately, and simply debited my Mastercard AGAIN with an identical payment. Essentially, all I did was to cancel one payment and have Paypal immediately make another one, WITHOUT MY PERMISSION. I was furious, so I immediately called up Mastercard again and asked them if they could help me. I laid the entire situation out and explained that Paypal was acting very aggressively and taking money out of accounts it had access to, entirely without my permission. Mastercard was very helpful, and said they could cancel this latest Paypal charge and then cancel the Mastercard immediately, leaving Paypal with nowhere else to take money from me (so I thought). I had them do this, and cut up my Mastercard on the spot, finding it a fairly crude but hopefully effective solution.

The next day I awoke to find that Paypal had dipped into my ACTUAL bank account (how they got the information I have no idea) and taken the payment of 250.00 once again. Seeing as how they had no access to my Mastercard, they went straight to the source, AGAIN without my persmission. I was, again, furious, as you might well imagine. I went straight down to a physical branch of my bank and had a talk with a representative. She reversed the transaction and closed my account (again, the only method we could come up with to halt Paypal's aggression)and then immediately opened me up a new account which Paypal would not have access to.

I thought I had seen the last of this, but oh no, Paypal was in no mood to actually do their job and follow up a fraudulent seller. They wanted my money, and they wanted it now. I received a phyiscal letter from them demanding an affadavit stating I had authorized a 250.00 USD payment to Donald Mann, and absolving them of any involvment in the situation. I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP.

I threw the affadavit in the garbage and ignored it. At this point I had decided to never use Paypal again and was just concerned that they not rip me off for any more money than they already had. This last $250 was just the nail in the coffin, and I refused to take it.

I got threatening emails from Paypal, and also notes from my bank about Paypal trying repeatedly to charge my dead account, over 6 months after the event. To this day I have not returned to Paypal's website, and I take every opportunity to make sure people know just how crooked they are.

Posted by: Anthony Brock at June 16, 2004 01:28 PM

Good post Anthony Brock. PalPay sucks.

Posted by: allen at June 16, 2004 06:25 PM

You think I made it up?

How about this:


My feedback is near the bottom (requiem99)

That confirms the scam took place. Now to confirm that Paypal did indeed do what I claimed... I have no idea how to prove that. I cut all communication and business with Paypal after this incident, and Angelfire mail closed down on May 31st so my mail archive (including the mails from Paypal about this incident) are gone now.


The point I'd make is: Why make up a story about Paypal like this? If I was making it up, I'd make it much more negative against Paypal than it is right now.

Believe whatever you want. Paypal still sucks and is a corporate thief.

Posted by: Anthony Brock at June 17, 2004 11:15 AM

I don't understand how they benefit from holding your money for 180 days.

Further more, what do they define "adult material" ?

Posted by: mike bailey at June 17, 2004 11:55 AM

Its your fault for not reading the user agreement before you signed up. They can withhold money for any reason they see fit, and you agreed to that fact when you clicked "I agree". This site should be more of a "NEWSFLASH! You actually have to read something before you agree to it!" than talking about paypal's unethical practices.

If you've ever dealt with merchants and accepting credit cards, you would know that there's a lot of fraud and many times people don't realize their funds are stolen until later down the line. 6 months is a safety net as stolen funds could be long gone by the time someone got a clue and issued a chargeback. Its a primarily free service, people dealing with big money should pay for an alternative and safer solution.

And if everything is legit, you should get your money back in 180 days. I suggest to everyone, that they never keep money in their paypal account for more than a few hours, and only utilize payment by paypal when all other options are impossible.

Posted by: Andrew at June 17, 2004 04:13 PM

I ordered a genealogy service payable through PayPal. The outfit was a rip-off and billed PayPal three separate times the same day of the order, but I did not know this at the time. When I was unable to access the site, I informed PayPal to cancel the charges. They didn't do it, even though I later learned that they had known for months that their client was a scam and had been reported to Atorneys General in several states. It cost me $150 bucks and I got nothing --especially any help from PayPal.

Posted by: Bill Sybert at June 17, 2004 05:08 PM

Just wanted to add my 2 cents regarding recording phone calls. If you call a business, a phone call can be recorded. Jerky Boys, Touch Tone Terrorist? Thats why prank callers call businesses. They can't get in trouble.

Most states its legal to record a phone call if one party knows the call is being recorded.

Posted by: ElGatoLoco at June 18, 2004 12:13 AM


As a suggestion, why don't you consider using one of the digital gold currencies like e-gold or pecunix for donations? It may be a bit of a hassle for people to set up, but they don't have the assinine policies that paypal does.

Posted by: Jens at June 18, 2004 01:10 AM

Good job recording the conversation. If they get to keep a copy, so should you.

Really funny how the shills come on here and spread their shit, trying to scare you into deleting your online copy...

Posted by: Daniel at June 18, 2004 03:49 AM

Another fine example of American Suck-the corporate-C*ck-Idiocy! "Freedom of Speech"!, "Freedom of expression", the basic core rights of our country that for ages have become few among many empty promises and lies!
I love the freak out response. It really is too bad Paypal had to sell out and rip their customers off with no warning other than vague terms - their loss I suppose, I'm sure there are better alternatives - any suggestions out there?.... "I dont have {a lot} of incentive to lie to you"{hmmm?} Yes, they gave us warning, but that doesn't change their being un-fair and un-helpful to loyal customers. It's not like they don't have that capacity to return the loyalty,this they have shown,they simply chose not to. Yes your content was a bit naughty, but hey- wasn't their selection of dildos?

Posted by: Delliana at June 21, 2004 05:01 PM

PayPal sux, I just closed my account thanks to Mark. I'm going to Yahoo's service it's FDIC insured.

PayPal benefits in a big way by holding your cash 180 days- INTEREST- they earn interest on that and you get nothing.

Corporate America, Ya gotta love that crap eh?
Enron, WorldCom, the more I see of these big conglomerate corporate assholes the less I like them.
Listen to Marc's audios of his fiasco with WorldCom, it's no woner theywent bankrupt!!!

Posted by: Randall at June 21, 2004 06:12 PM


I think its a riot that people are telling you its your fault for not reading the Paypal user agreement.
If you were to print the agreement out you would have 35 pages, and you would need an attorney to go over it with you with a fine tooth comb.
There are frequent amendments that are almost impossible to keep on top of.


Posted by: Phil at June 25, 2004 01:47 PM

Mark, I must say you where just wonderful! Paypal sux tapes should be on the store counters by christam!!!!! REALY! :O)

This is a list of states concerning the status on one party/ two party telephone tape recording law with footnotes, federal law coverage and extensive remarks.

A one party state means one party to the telephone conversation has to have knowledge and give consent.

It would appear that, if a telephone conversation crossed state lines, federal law would have jurisdiction.

California prohibits telephone monitoring or recording, including the use of information obtained through interception unless all parties to the
conversation consent. Cal. Penal Code Secs. 631, 632. There is no statutory business telephone exception and the relevant case law all but excludes this possibility. California courts have recognized "implied" consent as being sufficient to satisfy the statute where one party has expressly agreed to the taping and the other continues the conversation after having been informed that the call is being recorded. Violation is punishable by a fine of up to $2,500, imprisonment for not more than one year, or both. A civil plaintiff may recover the greater of $3,000 or three times the amount of any actual damages sustained.

after all they did state thay you may tape the conversation.:O)

Posted by: laurra at June 27, 2004 10:33 PM

Oh man.... "you cant record because it wont hold up in a COURT OF LAW".
They are obviously worried. They didnt say "you cant record because it wont hold on your website". I dont think you said "recording for the court". You said "for my website".
But I guess it was a sly stab of bullying eh?
Ok, listen to this... This is what happened to me: After 5,900 transactions since 1999/2000 to novemeber 2003 ...on the SAME paypal account taking up to 10,000's of dollars a month... they suddenly said I was running an MLM when my site had NO multi level programs in existence or associated (at the time it didnt).. so it was impossible.
Not only did they reverse my withdrawal like they did to you, they closed the account, kept thousands of dollars for that 180 days, would not prove how MLM was in existence and then EMAILED some of my customers and closed a dozen of their accounts stating its because of being association with MY WEBSITE - an advertising website.... Costing me ungodly amounts (6 figure amount within weeks to months) of orders and customers.
So they email me and say "give us correct contact information and we will 'waive' the 180 days and send your balance to you". So after deciding I dont have the energy to sue them for defamation & loss of income. Besides my kid was in the hospital and I paid 8 grand for that and needed MY money for her bills over the holidays of all times.
Anyway, so I said 'fine, do so and my information IS correct as is'. BECAUSE IT WAS and has been for years.
They write back "We are going to hold it for 180 days" and refused to answer me when I show them the 'waiver' email that they sent me!?
(And not one person refunded, charged back in that recent 180 days!!!)
...so I open 3 more Paypal accounts using relatives such as my mother's name because I have servers to pay for every month and family to pay for over here on my own.
What did they do when I picked up speed and took orders in again?
The same thing. Reverse the withdraw to the bank, sit on the cash, reverse PENDING CHECKS from customers (so they got free advertising from me since I didnt get those payments) and in the same manner as my first account. Quite bizarre and defamatory as hell and still is.
If you email and ask me, I'll tell you the domain because this is 100% true and many of my customers know it.

Posted by: Maryanne at June 30, 2004 12:11 AM


You have a legitimate case against PayPal. Have you considered taking this case to your Senator, Representative, or to the Attorney General's Office? They may state what they want to in the User Agreement, but their "terms" may contravene U.S. Commercial Code and Law, and "may be" in direct opposition of laws prescribed by the FTC.

Just a thought.

BTW, I got out of PayPal over two years ago because they closed my account when I began "billing" more than 50 people a day. They "thought" my billing practices were exhorbitant. I told them 50 a day was slow for my business. I've now gone to secure OLTP through my bank with Visa/MasterCard and other credit card companies. I don't have to worry about PayPal anymore.

Give 'em a good kick in the ass!

Ernest O'Dell

Posted by: Ernest ODell at June 30, 2004 04:27 PM

I just want to respond to the guy who complained about Cheney saying that there is a link between Al-Queda and Saddam Hussein. Guess what! Clinton said it too when he was president. Look it up!

Posted by: Rick at July 1, 2004 10:18 AM

I just want to respond to the guy who complained about Cheney saying that there is a link between Al-Queda and Saddam Hussein. Guess what! Clinton said it too when he was president. Look it up!

Posted by: Rick at July 1, 2004 10:18 AM

I am done with paypal. I agree with you so much that if you need a mirror for that mp3 feel free to shoot me an email. Thanks ! and keep fighting the good fight.

Posted by: J Knapp at July 1, 2004 03:55 PM

You should be crying to Visa and Mastercard. They are the ones that enforce the "no porn" rules. You'll get you money back. Stop whining.

Posted by: John Ranger at July 2, 2004 01:00 AM

You can argue that he can record the conversation... they say in the begining of the call "this phone call may be recorded"... they never say who can make the recording. Nice! Many states have legal action against paypal because of their tactics... they claim not to be a bank so they can control your money in any way,shape, or form they wish. Hopefully states will make paypal (ebay) be required to enact banking standards. (but remember ebay has a lot of lawyers working for them)

Posted by: joe at July 3, 2004 06:04 AM

I feel for you guys, I really do. I read this site often and feel sorry for all of you, but you really need to understand what it is that you're agreeing to when you decide to accept credit cards as a form of payment.
Any entity that enables an individual or company to accept Visa/MC must adhere to the rules that Visa/MC put forth. A "middle-man 3rd party Processor" such as Paypal can and will terminate a Merchant whenever they see fit. They will also hold any money that has been processed as whoever has given you access to Visa/MC is ultimately responsible for any "chargebacks" that could possibly come from a customer. A customer is permitted to a window of 6 months to do so I believe.
There are many, many rules that merchants must adhere to in order to continue accepting Visa/MC's product...if you don't then you simply are not allowed to anymore. If a Processor determines that YOU have done anything fraudulent or even just have a high number of chargebacks, they will place you on a MATCH list and no Processor in the world will ever let you accept Visa/MC again.
In closing, if you are a legitimate merchant with a reasonable, limited chargeback history (means you operate fairly with your customers) then you can be approved by a Processor/Acquiring Bank DIRECTLY and cutout a 3rd party Processor such as Paypal. Doing so is much cheaper also, as the Visa/MC fees have been marked-up less than with a 3rd party Processor.
If you have honest questions and concerns, email me and I will try and help you. Sorry, this is for USA based merchants only.

Also, you can visit the direct Visa/MC Processor's site that I represent at www.totalmerchantservices.com

Hope this helps!

Osha Piuma
Total Merchant Services

Posted by: Osha Piuma at July 4, 2004 12:45 PM

My dad was thinking about openeing an account with paypal but I knew they were cheap skates so I tried to did some dirt on them and here it is.


Posted by: Powerman2442 at July 5, 2004 01:44 AM

What I find ridiculous is the cause and effect relationship of their argument.

1) They closed the website because of questionable content.

2) They now think that (I guess) that people will file against the account for money back.

Why oh why would 1) have ANYTHING to do with 2). For one thing YOU CANNOT file against a payment on Paypal unless it is for an auction or they buy the insurance. I guess it is possible for chargebacks, but still they are using this as an excuse. SIX MONTHS -- Chargebacks are usually only valid for 3 months (in my experience), so once again their argument has NO VALIDITY. Their reasoning is faulty and they are using the USER AGREEMENT fine print to keep your money for as long as they want. I'm not even sure that is true ... I have not read the ENTIRE agreement.

Posted by: Jimmy Wong at July 5, 2004 05:27 AM

I started to make a Paypal account and its still pending verification, I think I'm going to cancel it. I had Paypal linked to my savings account but after reading this stuff I don't want Paypal anywhere near my bank account. Some of you guys may have been screwed over but if enough of your stories get out then Paypal/ebay will start to suffer for it.

Posted by: Sam at July 5, 2004 04:12 PM

stick it to them dude!

Posted by: John at July 6, 2004 03:53 AM

I never knew Paypal could do that i feel for you mate. Paypal SUCKS! Good recording and keep on their back.

Posted by: Chris at July 7, 2004 05:18 AM

After reading these posts and listening to the audio clip here, it's obvious to me that we can't be keeping funds in our PayPal account. In fact, I am going to close our account today. It's a real shame since it was so convenient to send money with them. :(

Posted by: Ronald at July 7, 2004 06:37 AM

Jimmy Wong, they are closely related. It doesn't take a PHD to guess that an account restriction would lead to chargebacks. And I thought everyone knew that you can chargeback up to 6 monhts later.

I agree with Me, Perkel's an idiot. You'll get your money back, dude.

Posted by: Jen Trevino at July 8, 2004 12:07 AM

This is amazing...I've heard of fine print, how fine does it get? "180 days" is a uselessly fixed expression, in which time they can do ANYTHING THEY lIKE with your money! And then they can cancel it for inactivity, delete it and pretend it never existed... they can get away with just about anything if the legalese and weaselese covers it!

PayPal must burn.

Posted by: Robert Richardson at July 9, 2004 06:50 PM

Very nice job Marc,

Your audio is more then great.
I could not find your e-mail address here, recently I got screwed by PayPal as well so I build a web site http://www.paypaltcf.com, and I was wondering if we can exchange links, and to get your approval, so that I can place a link for your PayPal audio.

The above web site is Anti-PayPal and Anti-TCF National Bank, who closed my checking account without reason, today published and already submitted to 180 search engines world wide..

I hope that I will hear from you soon.

Posted by: Patrick Douglas at July 9, 2004 11:14 PM

Hey M Perkel this is gaz be rotten i post at www.paypalsucks.com/forums i let other forums know about this to

Heres One


Great site and dont give in to them and oh joe schmo way to go double posting crap that no one is really reading

Posted by: Gazberotten at July 11, 2004 07:50 AM

Paypal tried to do the same thing to me about a year ago. A girl bought an old American Indian knife from me for well over $200.00, then she decided that she didn't like it, so she claimed it wasn't authentic and stopped payment through her credit card. She called and told me that the beading on it was old, but not the knife itself. She had sniped a guy who was a major collector and just from looking at the knife and sheath I could tell that it was the real deal.
I immediately cashed out my Paypal account and had them send me the money (which they did). I didn't know that they were going to get so nuts about it, but when I realized that they were from whatever it was they wrote to me, I called up my credit card company and had them cancel the card and I went and closed a bank account that I had for 20 years and reopened a new one. I had assurances from everyone that there was no way that Paypal could get money from me.
Everything was going fine until I started putting auctions up on eBay again. Every time I came to the payment part of the sell form I would unclick Paypal and I also wrote in my auction that I would not accept Paypal under any circumstances. Every time Paypal would put their logo in my ad anyway, so I made sure that I would write people as soon as the auction was over. It went on for weeks and I could not stop them from putting their logo in my ads.
When I tried to write to them they only gave me so many spaces, so I couldn't say nearly what I had to say to them. Finally I found that page on eBay where everyone was complaining about Paypal and they have all of the Paypal defenders and I wrote a big letter entitled "The Big Paypal Loophole" and sent it in directed to anyone who read it that worked for Paypal. They pulled it off of that page within a day. I noticed that everyone elses letters were staying for weeks maybe months or forever.
They wrote me some generic letter telling me that as soon as the problem was solved with her credit card company, that they would reinstate my account. I wasn't that worried about it because, I had gotten my money and they had no way to get it back from me. The only problem that I had was that I had to watch each auction end and dive on it to write people and tell them not to pay via Paypal. I didn't know at that time that eBay owned Paypal (apparently they did.)
One day I had a bunch of auctions end and I started writing to people, A guy bought a gold coin from me and I wrote him within 8 minutes, but it was too late. He had already paid with Paypal and they grabbed the money. I told him that if he had of read the ad he would have seen that I said that I DO NOT TAKE PAYPAL, NO EXCEPTIONS (in big red letters.) I asked him how he could pay hundreds of dollars for something without even reading the ad. Well, I know he read the ad because the shipping cost was right next to the big NO PAYPAL and he knew the shipping cost. I told him that it was his fault because, he ignored that. Even if he saw the Paypal logo he still could have written and asked about the conflicting words and logos. I think that he probably worked for Paypal because the bottom line was that he turned me in to eBay and the said that the logo was bigger than my words and I ended up getting thrown off of eBay after being an excellent customer since July of 1999.
I didn't go back on eBay for a long time, but eventually I needed to run auctions, so I paid eBay the $200.00 that they had to give him through their insurance program.
When I heard your phone call to Paypal I thought it was brilliant and you're exactly right that there's no difference in one day than there is in a month because, I got my money. I wish that I could put it on my eBay page, so I wouldn't have to keep explaining to people why I won't take Paypal, but I don't know how to lift it.

Posted by: Dave at July 11, 2004 09:40 AM

Marc, your recording was a work of tactical brilliance. I'm going to keep that in mind ANY time I call a company with an inquiry or complaint, provided that the phonecall "may" be recorded. Look out Telstra and Centrelink!Awesome stuff.
I use ebay on and off, and I don't think I'll be endorsing paypal in the future - I've already had problems with making payments to paypal account holders. My stumbling upon your site happened just in time, I believe. I will hastily search for paypal alternatives. Thanks so much for what you did, Marc - it's necessary for the big corporations to be held accountable to the integrity of the consumer. Good on you.

Posted by: Amos at July 13, 2004 01:27 AM

Hello. I also got hit by PayPal. $2000.00 and I also recorded the conversation. I told them in advance that I was recording it for legal purposes and that it could be used in a court of law. My recorder put a beep every 15 seconds. The lady I talked to gave me absolute lies about why they closed my account. Still, I'm too busy to take them on and realize that I would end up spending more taking them on. I hate those people and their "policies".

But what really kills me in regards to your situation is that PayPal is now an eBay company. And eBay allows "mature content" items to be sold on their site and these items can be bought and sold using PayPal!!!!


Their stance on this stuff is totally ridiculous.

Good Luck.

Posted by: Jack at July 13, 2004 04:40 PM

ever heard of "mother, may i?" the game kids used to play? well, if the automated message at the start of the paypal conversation says "this call may be recorded," that could be interpreted to mean, "permission is open for this call to be recording." if they wanted to get across the meaning that paypal, at that point, either does or does not start recording, they *should* say, "this call *might* be recorded." it's a simple matter of grammar! har har har

"mother, may i record this call?"

"this call may be recorded."

Posted by: justin at July 14, 2004 08:47 AM

oh -- don't forget that you can record anything you want on the phone, as long as you say, at the VERY beginning -- even BEFORE a live human picks up the other end of the line -- "this call is being recorded." so, even while the automated paypal voice is saying, "this call may be recorded," as long as you say, *on record*, "this call is being recorded," you can record it and do whatever you want with it. at that point, it is up to the person(s) on the other end of the line to either (1) tell you to stop recording (at which point you can hang up and start over with some other person) or (2) hang up. as long as you have, *on record*, "this call is being recorded," you don't need permission from the person(s) at the other end of the line.

Posted by: justin at July 14, 2004 08:52 AM

I note that you still have PayPal donation links on your websites. I can't see what message paypal gives after clicking, as they're doing maintenance at the moment, but wouldn't it be wise to remove the donation links? Better yet, direct them to this page.
You also have ads for age restricted adult websites, as objectional as your websites may or may not be, supporting you would be supporting them and this could easily be used by PayPal as an excuse.
So, while some consequences for your account may have been justified, holding the money is absurd.

Posted by: Crowley at July 15, 2004 11:14 PM

Paypal Sucks.....
I sold to Used Vw fenders to a fellow off a classified site...Sent him pictures of these items and discribed the items to him... He agread to purchase them.. Week later got a email from him saying thanks the items look good... Another week later he emails me saying he wants his money back...I tel him he bought them as is condition.
So he contacts his credit card company saying I discribed Items not as sold...The contact Paypal and they give him his money back...Now I got a charge back...Im out of money and my items...
Paypal wont help...Anyway to fight this? please email me

Posted by: Bob at July 19, 2004 10:26 AM

Wow, I use Paypal all the time for Ebay and never knew about their dickaholish policy. I feel sorry for the poor shlups at the support line though, they are just repeating corporate policy. Having worked in support hell, I can relate to them doing there job. The real enemy is the people on top, and sometimes the only way to get them to change is to get national media attention onto issues like this to scare the piss of them.

Posted by: Stacy at July 20, 2004 04:14 PM

I received a damaged (no packing material in carton) item bought on eBay. I paid by Paypal so no problem. Wrong they said "you got something end of case" I called my credit card company & faxed the form from my invoice and it was charged back imediately. That got Paypal unhappy. But with out any thing they could do. It was a protected business acount. It is now linked to a checking account that has about $20.00 left in it.
I do not take Paypal for payments Except personal.

Posted by: Al Shell at July 22, 2004 04:33 PM

Good on yer Marc!! PayPal are a bunch of thieving scum!!! Your convo is funny as made my day!!!

They're rude cunts!!

Posted by: KiLLa1892 at July 23, 2004 02:21 PM

I have a story for y'all."My Personal Screwing" we will call it:(It's a note sent to paypal-YOU=PAYPAL)I have been closed several times because YOU decided to believe a customer who claimed thier items HAD NOT been delivered.I was told to fax proof-a copy of money order-sent to customer(a REFUND for HER lie)(Cost me $5 for the m/o and faxes)-I did so, and you still after 6 months refuse to give me my account back.I tried sending you to ebay which shows her positive feedback for NOT only recieving the item BUT selling it.So she gets paid 2 times(MY M/O & her profit for selling MY item) and I HAVE TO PAY 2 times....Technically 3 as I had to BUY the item to begin with a total of $140 IM OUT!!!!! Because you ****s decided SHE was right....even though I DID EXACTLY WHAT YOU ASKED ME TO!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you are the suckiest money manager out there....and don't worry your lies,and stealing will come back to you 10 fold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!-I have many more as I have been with them about 6 years-AND they LOVE to SCREW ME!!!!!-ENJOY LOL

Posted by: Raylene at July 23, 2004 03:19 PM

Well I am a combatant in this paypal sucks conversation as well. I can easly say that at this point I am going to follow suit and record my next conversation with paypal. My problem with paypal started about 4 months ago, beginning with a fraudulent/hijacked paypal/ebay account. The usual process happened, ebayer receives phish email asking for his info, stupid user fills in the phisher, the hijacker buys one of my auction items, pays with the hijacked paypal account, after which the hijacker was able to change the account info to make it verified in some way. I ship the item to the address listed on the paypal account. 3 days after shipping the item, I get a notice from paypal of a reversal of payment from the ebayer(at which time I learn that the account is hijacked). While my paypal account is 'pending reversal' I open a second account to pay for auctions that I had recently won. about a week after opening the second paypal account I go ahead and accept payments to my second paypal account while my first account is pending. I confirm my second paypal account and follow every step in the 'paypal rulebook' so I can transfer the money amount earned from my auctions. I then try to transfer money out of my second account, to find three days after transferring the fund to my bank account, paypal had finalized the payment reversal on my first account, and then limited my second account due to "suspected fraud". As well, paypal decides to cancel the funds transfer (initiated three days prior), I did not learn of the finalized outcome/limiting/canceled transfer until I went to my bank to withdraw the suspected money, when I get informed that no money was in my account.

I spent hours and days by phone with paypal, trying to get them to reverse the payment transaction because I had a legitimate shipping/delivery receipt. Paypal did not even bother trying to help resolve this. I ended up losing out on a high dollar item(>$1500) I had to get a J.O.B. to try and recover lost money from my bank & paypal accounts.

Thats not the end of the problems, which from that point I should have dropped paypal immediately, but because I still needed to sell off the rest of my items. I needed something to transfer money through. I admit I was ignorant because I knew of 3 other services I could start using to accept payments from ebay other than paypal.

Well my problem this time is, I tried to withdraw funds from my paypal account to my bank account, to find 3 days later paypal tried to withdraw funds FROM my bank account instead. I was hit with a $25 NSF charge. Yesterday(Friday 07232004) I had to goto my bank to find out why I was hit with a NSF charge for trying to transfer money into my bank account. I then learned that paypal had tried to withdraw instead of deposit. I had to pay a fee of $35 to put a stop payment against paypal's attempt to withdraw funds. I spent about an hour on the phone today(07242004) with paypal trying to get them to resolve/change the transfer. No one wanted to help.

I as well heard the message "This phone call may be recorded". OK, now lets got off my problem for a second and get back to the english language that we all agreed to learn at some point in time. We'll start by breaking down that phrase and discover at some point that phrase indicates that "may be" could indicate that, that phone call is authorized/allowed to be recorded. Or again think of it as Might be recorded, but we all agreed to English at some point so "may be" indicates yes, in this phrase.
Because my phone call today I did not heard the phrase "...Recorded for security/quality control/or recordkeeping." So the phrase "This phone call may be recorded(period)" Thats all I heard. So I did not hear that it was only directed to paypal to be allowed to record, I heard the phrase as synomonous with you & I are allowed to record this conversation. Its a bad call/choice of words for any paypal representitive to say no you maynot record that conversation without his/her's consent. Because in the beginning it was stated "This phone call may be recorded." not "This phone call maybe recorded" there is also a huge difference between words. 'maybe' indicates possiblity, while 'may be' indicates authorization in this case. Authorization not directed specifically.


I have to remember each time I call, the customer service should have been named Customer Runaround. because that is all I received from them. I started with a regular representitive, then moved to a supervisor, then Finally to a Manager of some level. "All I hear from each and every person so far is nothing but a broken record, "I am sorry, we cannot stop this process" are you anywhere educated above the grade school level?" Beleive me this provoked a very negative response from the 'first name' person. By which brings me to my new argument, No way, shape or form would I like to call anyone by there first name unless some sort of friendship/relationship has been started. I hate telemarketers, and bullshit that get this wrong.

Well I am back to square one with paypal when it comes to trying to get money problems with paypal resolved. As soon as someone starts another class action suit against paypal I want to be the 100th person on the list.

Thats it for now, I need to get back to reading more of the recent changes to paypal's Terms & Agreement contract. Which brings us to another point against paypal. Paypal likes to change its terms agreement so often that even if you signed up with paypal at one point where you originally had a bit more right to some oddly service, or quality from paypal. By the 6th month in being with paypal you've lost that right/service. Because paypal loves to change its agreement. What was the last change... October 10th 2003? or last month. Because I know I received some email indicating ANOTHER CHANGE.

Mark whatever right you had with paypal BEFORE they changed policies, it was changed by them. Of course you forefit any rights to complain about the changes or object because you waived that right.

Paypal likes to not email people when it comes to status updates on things. I just finally received the email about the funds not transferring(today)

Posted by: NaT at July 24, 2004 04:29 PM

Paypal is the Worst company in the US. What a shame! American

Posted by: Kai at July 25, 2004 10:08 PM

I am going to get even with these fuckers too. I have started a website and it is currently being designed for me. WWW.paypalalternative.com and there is nothing paypal can do about it. I have an intellectual property lawyer who works for me and said as long as the site CLEARLY states that it is not affiliated with them, ebay... that it's cool. So, I am having a site similar to Paypal designed. You can pay for auctions, send money to anyone, pay your bills, Pay for your escort service bill (HA HA HA), get 48 hour money transfers to your account (not the 3 or 4 days they take) and I am only going to charge 2.29% + $0.30 a transaction. Paypal fucks people over all kinds of ways and I am going to be here for the consumer. No corporate conglomerate behind me. We are all tired of them fucking us over, so I am going to do what needs to be done. Take a big piece of their 35,000,000 customer base and I am going to FUCK PAYPAL!!!!! Please feel free to email me with any comments@ chrisc29@bellsouth.net Thanks and keep fighting!

Posted by: Chris Collins at July 28, 2004 01:57 PM

just a quick reminder, after 180 days, YOU have to email them and if they will return your email for you to get your money back, they will not inform you of the status, if you don't follow up, that will become their money agter another 90 days because no one is claiming it cause that almost happened to my $14000 that they took and spent for 6 months

Posted by: derek yabe at July 28, 2004 07:04 PM




In re PayPal litigation
Case No. CV-02-01227-JF (PVT)


You have been sent this Notice because the records of PayPal, Inc. indicate you are a current or former PayPal account holder. This means you may be eligible to receive a payment from the proposed class action settlement in the lawsuit In re PayPal Litigation, Case No. 02 1227 JF PVT, pending in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California in San Jose. This Notice provides a summary of the terms of the proposed settlement. It also explains the lawsuit, your legal rights under the settlement, what benefits are available to you under the settlement, and how to get them.

https://www.paypal.com/settlement/ - [displays message below - brings you to the link below]

Welcome to PayPal. You are about to be redirected to a non-PayPal site hosted by the claims administrator for the recently-announced class action settlement. At the site, you will be able to learn more about the litigation and class action settlement agreement.



Posted by: nerdeaux at July 28, 2004 10:46 PM

I am suing PayPal for 1 to 2 Million after they allowed a scam artist to scam me and hundreds others out of millions. They also froze my account and stole thousands more. I don't want to get into the details on a public forum. The person who wrote this site or anyone else having problems with PayPal, email me and I will put you in touch with my lawyer. I ask you all to stand up for your rights and sue this fascist monster. This evil dark corporation is waging war on the US constitution and on free speech and civil rights as we know it. If we do not take a stand and use our powers to sue to fight back, we will allow them to take command of our very lives. Email me at omegadeltagate@aol.com
Join me in my fight, I will tell you my story in private.

Posted by: Adam at July 29, 2004 01:55 AM

BRAVO!! I love the part where the guy states that you recording the conversation would not stand up in court. In some states (including mine, Indiana) only one person needs to know that a conversation is being recorded. Perfectly 100% legal. And admissable in court.

What an idiot. I commend you for dealing with such a dufus without beating yourself to death with your own phone.

Posted by: quinnn at July 29, 2004 11:49 AM

This.. this is one interesting story. I would like to it on my website. I haven't had a bad experience yet with paypal, but work at a large corporation, and know what it's like to have to tell people that there's nothing that I can do to over-ride policy. I too am a resolution consultant with a large money stealing corp, and I try all I can within my power in that company to get customers what they deserve.

Thanks for the story.

Posted by: newalloy at July 29, 2004 12:38 PM

http://www.settlement4onlinepayments.com/ is down when I just got the notice in my email. What the hell is going on? I was going to use paypal but after seeing this page, I dont know if I really want to try to do that. What others are good to use? I have never tried storm pay. I want to be able to just do email transfers or something. Thats probably the most secure way to do it. Ah well, whatever.
I am listening to the mp3. It still downloads fine for me.

Posted by: Ryan at July 29, 2004 10:12 PM

well done ~ stand up for what's right ~ this site has been brought to the attention of UK ebayers ~ GO get 'em

Posted by: jeannie at July 30, 2004 04:05 AM

Problem with the site is to many people are accessing it. Keep trying. PAYPAL SUCKS.

Posted by: joe at July 30, 2004 06:50 AM


Posted by: wendy at July 30, 2004 08:29 AM


Posted by: smith at July 30, 2004 09:22 AM

Fuck paypal, I am going to stay ahead of the nuclear fallout and get away unscathed while I can.

Posted by: Brian at July 30, 2004 09:56 AM

awesome, just awesome, marc.
that was a terrific job on the phone, but fucking frightening. i just transferred all funds from my paypal to my bank account. i will do this after every payment i receive from now on, including the $50 from paypal's "we are scumbags" class action account, if they ever come through. i will call bank of america to make sure that paypal cannot access my account and take my money.
if anyone knows how to squeeze them for more, please post. i just cannot believe all the stuff ive read here and only now are there legal repercussions.
if anyone has some feedback on paypal alternatives i'd appreciate it.

Posted by: hobojohnny at July 30, 2004 09:25 PM

I listened to your Paypal conversation and I know it so well. Those words, those recordings, those representatives who all follow a script. What a joke! I sympathize with you 100%. I am a "power" seller on ebay and use ebay because it gives me the "power" to stay at home and be with my daughter and not have to work for some shitty corporation. As a single parent I don't have a lot of options. I have never had a problem with Paypal, but this makes me seriously think about bailing out and accepting only Money Orders and Personal Checks at this point. I don't want to deal with an organization that behaves that way. What is the world coming to? I shudder to think...

Posted by: Shawn Marie Hardy at July 30, 2004 10:12 PM

I love you Marc, this is the best thing any one has ever done, you have taken a step further to try and stop these son off a bitches. I had £3,000 which is $5000 halted and I have been hurt & I mean hurt bad. I will be getting my money after 180 days AFTER they get so much interest out off my money. PAYPAL need to go DOWN ... and go DOWN quick.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 1, 2004 01:43 AM

I am not a member of PayPal (fortunately). However I am completely aware of the rights of each and every citizen in the United States. PayPal DID act according to their policy, but even so that policy is in violation of free speech and is also illegally holding your money, because for one if you no longer have an account and are no longer affiliated with PayPal, they have no right to keep money that is rightfully yours and no longer a part of a PayPal account. By closing the account because they BELIEVE the content is not appropriate and so on, they have violated your first ammendment right of free speach by judging personal beliefs, thoughts, and opinions that are IN NO WAY affiliated with PayPal and their services. Secondly, by closing the account, the money which was there officially belongs to the owner of the account, NOT PayPal. Even if there was money in the account at the time of closure, the money does NOT belong to PayPal and therefore they are not legally allowed to keep the money for ANY amount of time because it is not their decision. In this situation, you made a transaction BEFORE the time of closure, and therefore if that transaction was approved before it closed, that means that there is no money in the account to hold. So what would make it legal, after approving a transaction, to later go back and say "We can't do that"? If they approved the transaction, they approved it. I don't believe any company is allowed to make a reversal on a ligitament transaction. And also, if they can, where does it state the amount of time before the accounts closure that they are allowed to reverse a transaction? All in all here are the basic points that are in question: 1) PayPal closed an account because they did not like the content of a personal opinions that were expressed on a webpage completely and totally unrelated to PayPal. 2) They held money that was not legally theirs because they had closed the account and the money was no longer a part of PayPal. 3) They went back and reversed a legitament and approved withdrawl of all money that was in the account.

On the first point closing an account based on a personal webpage is the same as banning the use of the site for those who may have a religion that the company "doesn't approve of" or a nationality that they may not approve of. CLOSING AN ACCOUNT BECAUSE OF PERSONAL OPINIONS IS CENSORSHIP AND VIOLATES THE FIRST AMMENDMENT!

The second point is that they are keeping money for any period of time that is not legally theirs. THAT IS THEFT!

The third point is that they had no legitament reason to go back and reverse a perfectly legal withdrawl.

To Mr. Rantz and all others who feel the same on these issues and want to file lawsuits, these are very important points to bring up.

To those of you who are considering using PayPal, know that they use a policy that is unconstitutional and their actions are clearly illegal.

Good luck with your suits against this clearly unlawful company.

Posted by: Annonymous at August 2, 2004 12:42 AM

My company is a direct competitor of Ebay Wholesale. We are a b2b site and like ebay we do not own or warehouse any of the goods offered for sale. Unlike Ebay, we process funds for the buyers/sellers in order to mimimize fraud.

2 years ago right in the midst of a banner week in sales, Paypal froze our account out of the blue and without notice. Reason? They had decided to conduct an investigation on the items that were listed on Our website. We are not Ebay sellers and we had no complaints from any transactions. BUT Paypal decided to freeze our account and investigate Anyway. Now, GET THIS, They told me in order to lift this freeze I had to give them the names of all my suppliers! Yes, all my registered suppliers - (We have 18,000 registered members)This was right before the launch of Ebay Wholesale. I sent them a fax with 2 names of my suppliers and explained I would be violating privacy laws by disclosing this information and to please reevaluate this request. They didn't respond back nor release my funds. I sent certified letters, faxes, called, emailed and every day single day and each day my business suffered more and more since I could not take money in or pay money out and all orders had to be cancelled. Our average order is around $700.00. My customers started to wonder what was going on when incoming paypal funds were blocked. To make things worse, we were exclusively using Paypal as our payment system. We had agreed to this in order to qualify for the Paypal referral program of $5.00 for each referral that signed up. Considering the size of our database, we felt exclusively promoting Paypal would earn some good revenue. Everyone would sign up! Not only did it backfire, but we never got 1 dime for all the referrals we sent. Paypal changed it's policy midstream so our previous deal was off.

My paypal account was finally released after I filed a complaint with the FTC. I took the advice of the one of the contributors on nopaypal.com. I filed the complaint mid morning and by the afternoon my funds were released.

I closed my paypal account and we do business the safe way. Through US BANK and Cornerstone payment system. We have had Zero problems since. Not one credit card dispute or chargeback.



Posted by: JANE at August 14, 2004 11:23 PM

You are AWESOME! I like your MP3 recording!!! Damn hilarious. So you know, I have a PayPal account and one of their big customers. I have been doing it for years and have not had any problems YET. But, I am already "situate" everything so as to avoid being screwed by PayPal.

Posted by: Anthony at August 16, 2004 11:34 PM

I want to use your mp3 recording in a house mix. how do i get your permission.

Posted by: Rich johnson at August 17, 2004 01:37 AM

"It said, 'this call may be recorded' so I recorded it."

That's clever at an epic level.

Sounds like you had some anxiety going on during the same, but you hung in there for this and did great thinking on your feet and sticking to your issue.

Way to go man!

Posted by: Jeff at August 18, 2004 01:21 PM

Hey I just found this website because I was researching a new way for people to make donations to my website. It is an adult website totally free but I was using paypal to pay out for expenses and people were using paypal to make small donations to keep my site running for free.
I just found out that paypal suspended my account for the same reasons I have read above. I never revieved any warning, I found out by logging into my account to check something. I was highly surprized.. I didn't feel like fighting with paypal so I emailed them back 2 disputes and dropped it. I am how ever quite pissed because the more I look into this I find 2 things...... Smaller adult websites who do NOT generate much cashflow are being suspended... larger websites are still able to use paypal.

I had a business account and it is not like they were not charging me, for every dollar donated they took 0.33 cents -- they were making some money!
Anyway I am going to link this to my own website Thanks for the great read!

Posted by: Suzy at August 24, 2004 06:41 PM

MARC!! This is excellent. Take some acting classes. I love when you told her you were recording the conversation!!

Good work.

Posted by: Denis at August 25, 2004 09:03 AM

Marc....Unbelievable!!!!!!!! Who in hell do these people think they are??? An affiliate to Al Quida?? Possibly a Baath Party?? I will sure link my websites to yours. THANKS!!! For the REAL inside info.

Posted by: Ozz at August 31, 2004 09:44 AM

What are you complaining about?
You should have read the Agreement.
It is against their policy to do buisness with websites like yours. That is their choice. Their policy is to hold your money. If you didn't agree with it, then you shouldn't have used paypal, and you should have taken their threat seriosuly. If you didn't read it, maybe next time you should. Paypal can't be responsible for the fact that you didn't read their rules.

Posted by: Ben at September 1, 2004 03:06 PM

Excellent work Marc. I had a paypal account until about 5 minutes ago. I had heard negative stuff about PayPal but didn't really pay it much mind. Your recorded phone call swung the balance. With any luck they will not go back and clean out my checking account and credit cards out of spite. We'll just have to hope I guess. Thanks Marc.

Posted by: drone #451104 at September 4, 2004 11:56 AM

What you should know about another kind of fraud:

Allah or Jesus? by Rick M.

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training
session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman
Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their belief

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all
Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!"

I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"

The __expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the
cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr.
Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"

The Imam was speechless.

I continued, "I also have problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.

(This is a true story and the author, Rick M., is a well known leader in prison ministry.)

Senders words: Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of
dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslim's beliefs. I think everyone in the US should be required to read this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way
this will be widely publicized.

Great site!

Posted by: No Nick at September 7, 2004 09:34 PM

I was interested in selling some of my spare computer parts thru ebay but have never used ebay before, so naturally I wondered how the whole buy/sell thing worked and how to receive payment and so on. I have a roomate that sold a MoBo and CPU combo over ebay using paypal and he told me a little how it worked and that it was real easy and secure. So I go to google and do a search for paypal and just before I click on the link for "paypal" I notice other sites like this one and paypalsucks.com.

After reading through most of the horror stories I definetly wont join Papal. And I'm really disgusted to learn how greedy and coniving people can be. I mean it sounds like these people would steal your dirty underwear if the opportunity presented itself.

I was looking for a good experience when I was considering selling my items online. But now after reading this site and others like it I realize that theres a good possibility that I might got robbed. This shatered my expectations.

Still, I wanted to register with ebay anyway, and figured the only real safe way to except a payment would be a money order if I ever sold anything. I took the registration turtorial that they offer on ebay that shows you in 3 easy steps how to register. And in neither of these steps does it say you have to give creditcard info because registering with ebay is free, except in my case.

Apparrently I suppose since I have a hotmail account they need to verify this with credit card info - so for me there was a fourth step(there was a little link that stated if I had outlook or AOL email I wouldn't have to give my credit card info but hotmail is the only email I have and after reading this site I really didnt want to do that just to register. But I did anyway becuase on each page it said it was free to register and the website made this abundantly clear).

So I finished registering with ebay got the conformation email and everything was all good.

Then I go back to reading some of the crazy stories on these websites and I sart getting really paranoid about some of the past transactions I've made with my credit card online. Now realizing that my number is floating around somwhere in cyber space I just figure it better to get a new number and trash my existing card to be on the safe side. While I'm on the phone with VISA I also jump on to there netaccess website that allows you to see up to the minute transactions on your card, I notices something I can't believe. Ebay charged me one freaking dollar to register on there site. when it mentioned 2 to 3 times that registering was free. Now its not the money that bothers me becuase its only a dollar but its the fact that the lied on their website. They said registering is free ... if I have to pay 1 cent to register, then its not free. I mean this just happend. Not to beat a dead horse but I looked in websters to try and understand the full meaning of "free" and see if ebay means something else when the say its free to register and these are the entries I found:

"Main Entry: 1free
Pronunciation: 'frE
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): fre∑er; fre∑est
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English frEo; akin to Old High German frI free, Welsh rhydd, Sanskrit priya own, dear
1 a : having the legal and political rights of a citizen b : enjoying civil and political liberty c : enjoying political independence or freedom from outside domination d : enjoying personal freedom : not subject to the control or domination of another
2 a : not determined by anything beyond its own nature or being : choosing or capable of choosing for itself b : determined by the choice of the actor or performer c : made, done, or given voluntarily or spontaneously
3 a : relieved from or lacking something unpleasant or burdensome b : not bound, confined, or detained by force
4 a : having no trade restrictions b : not subject to government regulation c of foreign exchange : not subject to restriction or official control
5 a : having no obligations (as to work) or commitments b : not taken up with commitments or obligations
6 : having a scope not restricted by qualification
7 a (1) : not obstructed or impeded : CLEAR (2) : not being used or occupied b : not hampered or restricted in its normal operation
8 a : not fastened b : not confined to a particular position or place; also : not having a specific opponent to cover in football c : capable of moving or turning in any direction d : performed without apparatus e : done with artificial aids (as pitons) used only for protection against falling and not for support
9 a : not parsimonious b : OUTSPOKEN c : availing oneself of something without stint d : FRANK, OPEN e : overly familiar or forward in action or attitude f : LICENTIOUS
10 : not costing or charging anything
11 a (1) : not united with, attached to, combined with, or mixed with something else : SEPARATE (2) : FREESTANDING b : chemically uncombined c : not permanently attached but able to move about d : capable of being used alone as a meaningful linguistic form -- compare 5BOUND 7
12 a : not literal or exact b : not restricted by or conforming to conventional forms
13 : FAVORABLE -- used of a wind blowing from a direction more than six points from dead ahead
14 : not allowing slavery
15 : open to all comers"

Notice that definition 10 says "not costing or charging anything" See I don't know though I might be wrong, I've seen the infomercials when the say that might give away something for free but you have to pay shipping and handling charges, so I don't know what there definition of free is.
Either way Becuase of this action I won't do any kind of bussiness at all with ebay. It seems shadey. I already sent an e-mail asking them why they charged me a dollar when it said it was free to register.

Posted by: mactango at September 11, 2004 08:23 AM

Well turns out Mark never won the case and it proves paypal can get away with unfair practices and hide behind the terms of service.

Posted by: Gazberotten at September 12, 2004 11:08 AM

A thought, for the "free" complainer...

Are you sure it wasn't a $1 /hold/? A $1 or $0.01 hold (one which doesn't go on to become a charge) to make sure a card is legit is a very common business practice, and isn't going to end up costing you any money.

Posted by: A passerby at September 13, 2004 07:28 AM

I can't thank you enough for having the heart and decency to bring your PayPal complaint to light. I was just searching around to see if there were any serious complaints against PayPal before I decide to use them in conjunction with my website(s). Yours is by far, the most hard-hitting complaint yet. After reading other comments on your website, I have decided definately NOT to use PayPal. Can you recommend a better service?

Posted by: James OBrien at September 26, 2004 04:10 PM

Fuck paypal! I registrated there today with my credit card (just registred, no transactions at all), and the next thing i know is that 30USD is taken from my account. There's no way to get in touch with them and on the phone i'm put on hold forever and forever, that cost alot of money when calling from half way around the world. SO FUCK THEM! Hope they die!!

Posted by: SGW at September 27, 2004 06:23 PM

Hi Marc

i have a file regarding paypal that i think would be very useful for you paypal hate campain.

Its 10mb i wondered if there was some way i could send it to you.


Posted by: Azz at September 28, 2004 06:20 AM

Hi all, i sent Mr Perkel another conversation with paypal where they decided to suspend my account for 180 days for absolutly no reason at all.... Maybe Mr Perkel will post it on his site for all you guys to listen too.


Posted by: Azz at September 29, 2004 08:21 AM


Posted by: weidow at September 29, 2004 10:11 AM

Hey, just wanted to let you know that I've been looking into what all Paypal has done to people in the past and saw your link posted on a message board and followed it. I can sum pay pal up in one word now: "Shit"

Needless to say, I cancelled my account just now and am posting to let you know.

Everyone needs to cancel their paypal accounts. There are other, more legit and safe ways to get your money to people who are buying or selling goods.

Let loose the dogs of war, and down with Paypal and Ebay (where I will never sell anything again).

Posted by: JustinW at September 30, 2004 10:42 AM

my fucking money got tied up and they won't return it

Fuck paypal.

Posted by: They won't return at October 3, 2004 11:54 PM

I dunno what the hell 'adult dating' is it sounds like something scuzzy but Paypal is even more scuzzy, that's fo sho. They screwed me out of five dollas.

Posted by: Headcase at October 4, 2004 05:24 AM

Paypal is fucked up. you have all the rights man... how can these fuckers get away with stealing peoples money like this. this is absurd. i am closing my paypal account because of this, i do not want them fucking me over. may their business fall of the earth.

Posted by: Brian at October 5, 2004 12:25 AM

They are screwing 1000's of people, by the same bogus methods of freezing funds in accounts without merit -- and they're being sued by state AG's all over the map.

An eBay Company, BTW.

Posted by: Roger That at October 10, 2004 11:24 AM

hey there you are so so right paypal does suck!!! I shardae deposited $600 into my partners account through paypal my partner ACCIDENTLY added the wrong bank acc number which i no is silly but just an honest mistake! paypal states on the website if money is posted into an account that doesnt exist it goes in2 their holding cell and gets sent back to the origional sender (me) we know there isnt a bank account number the same as my partner added as we have spent the past 8 months workin with our banks to try get the issue solved!! so if there is no account as the bank has said then the money should be returned to us rightfully! yet it still has not!! the really annoying thing is the size of this company and the amount of money they actually have im sure $600 isnt that much to them but to me and my partner its alot we still cant resolve this issue as we are in NewZealand miles away and there is no help over here!! ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE AWESOME!! THANKS

Posted by: shardae and Will at October 11, 2004 08:59 PM

They have almost $10k of my money locked. My ebay accts are 98% positive. No customers of mine filed a claim and yet paypal wont release my money. I wish paypal burns to the ground.

Posted by: Heinekenman at October 14, 2004 02:01 AM

Man, I loved the recording. That was positively world class.

I guess that Iím lucky. I have to be one of the most cynical and suspicious people on earth. I got in with PP when they first went into operation. As soon as they asked for access to my bank account an alarm went off. I politely refused and ceased doing business with them. The CC on record has long since expired so I am totally free of them. And, I plan to stay that way!

Posted by: Fred Schroeder at October 23, 2004 10:50 AM

Yes Paypal is corrupt.I luckily got away from them before they decided to keep my money.A few years ago I saw a news blip where they stated "We are not a bank, therefore not held accountable as a bank would be" meaning if you have any monies accrued in their so-called accounts they never have to pay out and there's shit you can do!Ebay is a scary place, you know they get a cut from Paypal,...YES??

Posted by: Phil Chen at October 24, 2004 07:08 PM


Posted by: CHRISTINA at November 8, 2004 03:27 PM


Posted by: MIKE at November 12, 2004 08:42 PM

I sent a letter to Meg Whitman (pres. of eBay tho I hold no misconceptions about who reads the emails sent there) about PayPal about 6 months ago. They assume and act like everyone has every reason to trust PayPal, but almost everyone who has done any business on eBay knows that PayPal is run by a bunch of extortionists. Since then, when my response was essentially brushed off with their "trust us" propoganda, I've stopped buying & selling on eBay.

It's not because I don't want to buy, or I don't like eBay - it's because PayPal and eBay are engineered to bring in new customers and to disregard established customers. I won't support this with my dollars.

In addition, you'll note that eBay's dispute resolution is pretty shoddy - if you've been screwed by someone on eBay, don't rest with the bullshit Safe Harbor feeds you - go to your local police and Attorneys General - eBay needs to be held more accountable for the safety of its legitimate customers.

Posted by: James at November 17, 2004 02:17 PM

I must say...agreeing with everyone else here, shutting down my PayPal account as soon as my transaction for $30 USD goes through...only reason I'm letting it go through, is because the person I'm buying from is a trustworthy seller who actually directed me to this site and paypalsucks.com. She and I have been in constant contact since I won the item. I'm a little afraid, though. Once I close my account, PayPal will still have access to my bank account? I don't like that idea at all. How can I cut off all connections? Or will that require closing and opening a new account?

Anyway, great job Marc. You've convinced a lot of people to stop using Paypal, and I'm going to forward your site and everything I've learned to all my friends and pass it on. I think it's absolutely necessary because I don't want anybody I know to get screwed over by this. Or anyone else. Do as I'm doing! Forward this site to everyone you know to protect them!

Posted by: Sarah at November 18, 2004 12:32 PM

PAYPAL violates federal privacy laws
Our corporation has a paypal account and as an officer of the corporation have a personal account. PayPal has recently suspended our corporate account due to one complaint on my personal account. They say the accounts are interlinked--I notified them that I was just an officer and that the paypal account was owned by the corporation. They had me fax over our corporate banking signature cards, inventory invoices, driver's license, American Express merchant account information, etc, etc. PayPal lifted the suspension on the corporate account after meeting their demands (federal law prohibits business' requesting copies of driverís license) and after the suspension was lifted our corporation attempted to transfer funds to their banking account, PayPal again suspended the account because of the " link" of the coprorate account and the officer's personal account. We would like to know if anyone else as encountered unjust treatment from PayPal; how it was resolved if so, any recommendations you can provide, or would be interested in filing a class action lawsuit for their violation of infringing on your privacy rights by requesting a faxed copy of your driver's license.
Thank you

Posted by: Frank Lee at November 25, 2004 11:21 AM

At one time PayPal was the only game in town, but now there are PP competitors popping up everywhere, both inside and outside the USA.

For example we've learned about a PP alternative called YOWCOW; unfortunately they are based overseas, and we feel anxious that using a non-USA service might be a risk in itself. Can anyone personally recommend an alternative to PP which is based in the USA? Or even personally recommend YOWCOW?

Posted by: D.A. Ling at December 15, 2004 08:35 AM

Help !!!!! what are the alternatives to Pay/Pal??? I was 30 days away from putting pay pal on my website. Thanks!!!
If anyone could point me in the direction of another way to accept credit cards. Without alot of extra or hidden costs.


Posted by: Shelly Young at January 1, 2005 08:19 PM

I'm having Paypal such since from 2002, using it buying stuffs from ebay, This Oct 2004 I'm start selling my goods to ebay, And about 1 month after Paypal Limited My Acct and I been on phone holding for 2 hours to get customer service " 2 hours for them to pick up mother fuking Phone " and ask why They limited. She Said someone sent money to my account 300$ from no-where actually it "REFUNDED" to the sender. And They Limited my account for that reason! been 2005 Now. Not access to my account with is 700$ left in it.


Posted by: Tony at January 5, 2005 10:46 PM

I feel for you m8! Once i found this out i showed it to my bro i think me and him are gonna close our accounts. WHAT THE FUCK GIVES THEM THE RIGHT TO TAKE ANYONES MONEY. No matter what any1 in this world says NO ONE CAN TAKE MONEY ITS STEALING! If you went to the law with this you could win the case! If someone had an account and had $2000 dollars in the account and they took it would you let them have it for 180 days (6 months) or take it to the law. Mark if you havent been to the law yet i suggest that you do.

(i am not link advertising) Is there any stories about NoChex doing anything like this?

Posted by: Scott at January 6, 2005 04:21 PM

Paypal got me as well, in basically the exact same manner. I got $3500.00 in Paypal right now, frozen for 180 days. I withdrew my money on the 10th of January and on 13th January they froze my money and gave me a limited access to my account. The cancelled transferring my money and basically stated that they will keep my money for the entire 180 days and there was nothing that I can do about it. Now, I have to wait until July 2005 to get my money.


Posted by: Garry at January 21, 2005 10:16 AM

My feedback has been scarred because of the same exact thing! I feel your pain buddy!

Posted by: AlexRivera at January 22, 2005 05:45 PM

Anyone know any government agencies to complain to that will get our money from PayPal Inc?

Please list addresses and tele numbwers if known.

Will small claims courts work if we are in New York and they where ever?

Please email US at ABA2004D@YAHOO.COM

Posted by: Robert at January 23, 2005 01:14 PM

I am a real estate agent and I also have my own wholesale company. Just so the people of this world know you do not have to have an account with paypal to get screwed by them. I had $400.00 removed from my buisness account causing a loss of over $850.00 to my buisness. My customer paid with paypal and although they say it is secure they do sell your account information. when I contacted my back I was told the withdrawel was done through pay pal. When I contacted them they told mein a very condisending manner that it was my problem not theres. Need less to say I was not able to get my money back. Since I have closed All E-bay accounts and I worn people every chance I get. Thank you for the opportinuty for me to tell people how they cost me my buisness.

Thank you Arleen

Posted by: Arleen at January 25, 2005 04:34 PM

That is total bullshit. I am forwarding this url to my legislators.

Posted by: Andrew M. at January 26, 2005 12:54 AM

In finland it is a beauty that you can record if YOU are talking with someone.

No matter is there permission, as long that is you who is talking with someone :)

and yeah, Paypal Sucks.

Posted by: Skal Tura at February 7, 2005 01:03 AM

I too am another Paypal victim - along with my mom who just had 2 strokes, my husband who was deployed to Afghanistan in the 82nd airborne, and a friend from NY. Altogether, we have lost a total of a little over $20,000 in a few short months - none of it ever recovered for any of us. The reason? "one or more of your buyers have reported suspicious activity". Funny, My husband nor I ever sold a thing - only bought things off of Ebay. AND how can he, esp. have a buyer ot any activity for that matter, when he is in Kandahaar with NO tv's, much less internet! The case with my mom, well, on Thanksgiving day of this year she had a stroke. Then, as she was flying on American Airlines on her way out here to Phoenix to visit me since I was all alone for Christmas, she has another stroke at the Dallas-Fort Worth hub. Needless to say I couldn't get a ticket out there b/c Paypal had all our money!She was all alone on Christmas, paralyzed on the right side, and I was all alone with a paralyzed heart. I have her power of attorney now, since the CVA's, and so I faxed those into Paypal, along with her medical records and even had our family attorney call and explain the situation so that they might give us our money. No luck there either. I have faxed "4 rounds" a piece of all my info, My husband's info, and my mom's info. Total cost is over $300, since I have to go to Office max to fax anything. I would do just about anything to send those bastards straight to hell. Anyone wanna help me? Anyone got any ideas?

Posted by: Aleisha at February 7, 2005 07:32 PM

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Terry Dale Member Services

Tim Loban Merchant Fraud & Risk
Weekend Supervisor (Sat/Sun/Mon 11AM~Mid)

Alicia Merchant Fraud & Risk

Tammy Galvin Quality Development

Jenny Quality Development

Janie Bartlett Resolution Services

Bryant Resolution Services
Team Leader

Lynn Vogue Resolution Services

Mike McCormick Resolution Services
Resolution Services Supervisor

Rich H. Resolution Services

Lorie Kilstrom Resolution Services

Tim Underlow Resolution Services
Product Education Trainer for Resolution Services

Resolutions Department Line Resolution Services

Douglas H. Security

Michell Security

April Garner Unknown

Adonocca Banks Unknown

Nick Unknown

Pat Unknown

Vicki Hernandez Unknown

Mary Jo Unknown

Megan Unknown

Jeff Hagan Unknown

Mary Steeley Unknown

Michelle Parkins Unknown

Jason Finer Unknown

Eduardo(?) Unknown

Tonya Unknown

John Freeze Unknown

Rick Unknown

Nick Unknown

Michelle Unknown

Kelly Shipley Unknown

Jeff Allen Unknown

Patience Unknown

Dawn Mouski Unknown

Steve Unknown

Dona Shong Unknown

Shelly Unknown

John Unknown

Latrisha Harris Unknown

Lisa Hughes Unknown

Amy Lescott Unknown

Kelly Unknown

Maggie Mentato Unknown

Paul Ingles Unknown

Stacy Price Unknown

Kelly Unknown

Koreen Unknown

Michelle Unknown

Cindy Langstrom Unknown

Lynette Lane Unknown

Kim Unknown

Kimberly Unknown

Mark Rosenthal Unknown

Eddie Unknown

Charles Unknown

Bill Unknown

Peggy Unknown

Deb Myer Unknown
Schedule: M-F 8AM~4:30PM

Trish Unknown

Zack Unknown

Lashaun Unknown

Beth Unknown

Valerie Dasante Unknown

Erin Crain Unknown

Frank Unknown

Kevin Armstrong Unknown

Emily Heldridge Unknown

Erin Unknown

Lamay Unknown

Ray Unknown

Sherry Unknown

Lisa Thompson Unknown

Kimberly Unknown

Osma Unknown

Tracy Unknown

Shaun Unknown

Meliss Unknown

Jim Unknown

Eric Harrison Unknown

Name not known Unknown

unknown Unknown

Mark Peterson Unknown

Dave Unknown

Brock Unknown

Shaun Unknown

Angie Anderson Unknown

Julie Gonzales Unknown

Sally Unknown

Deb Unknown

Ellie Unknown
Number changed to 935-1835, per voicemail.

Tereasa Unknown

Eric Unknown

Doug H. Unknown

Cynthia Unknown

Leslie Walker Unknown

Heather Johnson Unknown

Jason Alexander Unknown

David Unknown

John Unknown

Chris Unknown

Jim Norway Unknown
Call was forwarded to a Nextel Phone Afterhours (management?)

Amanda Unknown

Cathy Unknown

Laurie Unknown

Jason Unknown

Jamie Swanson Unknown

Jessica Carasoul Unknown

Steve Unknown

Marissa Unknown

Laurie Unknown

Torrence Unknown

Karen Unknown

Beverly Unknown

Karen Lovette Unknown

John Kimmee Unknown

Claire Shumiker Unknown

Mary Viella Unknown

Frank Unknown

Mary OBrien Unknown

Kelly Carson Unknown

unknown Unknown
person answered, unsure, will recheck later.

Bob Miles Unknown

Renee Unknown
Schedule: Tues~Fri 1:30PM~Mid.

Foreign Speaking Employee Unknown
Foreign Employee.. anyone identify language ?

David B. Unknown

Tina Unknown

Cameron Unknown

Cindy Unknown

Alisha Rhea Unknown

Cindy Kathork Unknown

Andres Unknown

Robin Unknown

Jim Unknown

Mark Davis Unknown

Janice Erickson Unknown
Schedule: M-F 6AM~2:30PM

Nicole Unknown

Natalie Unknown

Angie Unknown

Gene Unknown

Doug Maxum Unknown

Becky Unknown

Carrie Unknown

Paula Baldwin Unknown

Dave Burchill Unknown

Andy J. Unknown

Micheal Jones Unknown

Marlow Rumington Unknown

Jeanette Unknown

Quincy Unknown

Terrell Anderson Unknown

Lisa L. Unknown

Evan McCaul Unknown

Jessica Palamino Unknown

Steve Unknown

Tonya Lynn Unknown

Devon Unknown

Carrol Unknown

Cindy Unknown

Jeff Lonka Unknown
Admin maybe (msg says if urgent, call: 402-490-9749)

Sheila Unknown

Unknown Employee Unknown

Tim Maxwell Unknown

Rich Unknown

Jerry Lowe (female) Unknown

Brian G. Unknown
Voicemail says w/Ebay

Brian Unknown

Christian Reese Unknown

Reese Unknown

Angie Unknown




Posted by: JON FOE at February 12, 2005 10:06 PM

I feel everyone's pain. My account was just frozen because of "recent activity". My recent activity? I paid someone with PayPal! :o) Now, I only have $25.00 in my account because I have NEVER trusted Paypal, but hell, it's my money and I want it. So, now PayPal has given me an 8 number list of what I need to do and they MAY unfreeze my account. So I called and wanted to know why my account was frozen and they say it has been "linked" to an account. How was it linked? Of course they can't say. But I have figured this out. Do you know they log ISPs when you log into Ebay or PayPal? So if you use a public computer to log into PayPal or Ebay and someone else had used that computer you may be frozen. Share a similiar address such as living in an apartment building? That might be a reason. Share a similiar name? That might be a reason. So I called the FTC. The more complaints the better. Did you know PayPal had settled with them prior for their arbitrary practices? So call and have them log your complaints so they can build another case.


Press 4... Press 2... Press 2... Press 4
They will ask you for your information (name, address, phone, etc.).
My main complaint was about the arbitrary freezing your funds with vague information as to why. They just won't tell you! They link your account to another's with who is not yours and treat you as if whatever they have wrong with their account is really what YOU did, even though it's not you. They give you information to provide but there is no guarantee that they will unfreeze the account with your money in it. For me they also wanted me to allow a $1.95 charge for whatever program, but the website contains vague information about what the program is. When I called to ask them what it is they say it's just another verification method but they would credit back your PayPal account once you could provide them with more information. However your PayPal account will still be frozen and again there are no guarantees that your account will be unfrozen. Pass along to as many people as you know. The more complaints the better.

Posted by: Sandy at February 17, 2005 07:16 AM

I have spent most of this afternoon reading all this and I must admit feel much relieved that I have found a place to post my ANGER and FRUSTRATION at Paypal. I have no speakers here at work to listen to you conversation, but I CAN'T WAIT. I spent the last 2 nights in conversation hell in which I wish I had recorded all the lies I was told and promises that were made. My situation, not unsimilar to many is this: simply Paypal makes an error but blames it on me and my bank. Paypal sends out SLANDEROUS emails to my buyers and sellers stating I am working under a CLOSED BANK ACCOUNT. Thus creating panic where there is none, stirring up trouble undeserved and then putting it all back on me. This situation is even sending the U.S. Postal Administration after me for FRAUD which I have never committed. Here it is in a nutshell. I purchased about 40 items on ebay and paid for them through my VERIFIED BANK ACCOUNT. Paypal in turn flooded my bank with INTERNET PURCHASES ACH R2 code transactions. My bank in turn returned the items unpaid and stated that my account was "not accepting such withdrawals". It is my banks policy (paypal thinks they are the only ones allowed to have policies) to question an influx of internet or "suspicious" withdrawals. Rightly my bank was trying to protect me. Paypal in turn unverified my account and sent emails to all my Sellers that I was using a "closed" account which indicates "FRAUD". Now, my bank in no way told Paypal the account was closed, they said it was not accepting the transactions at that time. Paypal SLANDERED me, my name, my selling credibility and my buying credibility all in one fell swoop because their so called "customer service representatives" determined that my account was closed. I immediately sent Paypal the documentation they "required" to prove that my account was open. I sent that fax on February 3, 2005 with a copy of my bank statement showing a substantial deposit was just made into that account (which they said was closed), a copy of a letter from my bank on BANK LETTERHEAD from the Branch Assistant with a phone number for paypal to call that my account was not only NOT CLOSED but accepting transfers of both credits and debits, and a copy of my Driver's License. I faxed and heard nothing. I got another generic statement saying that my balance needed to be dated after the February 2, ACH transfers were supposed to take place, at which point I pointed out that the balance was as of FEBRUARY 3, well that didn't work so I sent yet another fax of documentation. I received a note from Paypal rep that my account had been reverified. 2 MINUTES LATER they unverified it again stating that the bank refused transfers again. Now, at this point I am fuming, there system is so behind, they did not post the February 2 ACH transfers until FEBRUARY 8. They did not try and make new ACH transfers on FEBRUARY 8 but they insisted that they did and canceled my account. My bank shows proof that no such ACH transfers were attempted by Paypal. They are falsely holding up my bank account and blocking me from buying or receiving funds on their own systems STUPIDITY. Not to mention the so called "customer service representives" who appear to be a "few fries short of a happy meal". One guy is on the phone with me for an hour and PROMISES me after reviewing everything with his supervisor (who is probably less intelligent than the peon guy I am talking to) that my account will be reverified within 10 minutes. That did not happen. It was all a lie to get an upset person off the phone. I called again the next day. This person luckily had reported my call on the computer so the next MORON could read it. He went to his supervisor who denied me access and INSISTED THAT according to her records the bank is continuing to deny ACH transfers. I got so mad I asked her to prove that transaction were made on the 8th to my bank at which time she said, why don't you get your bank to prove it. My reply, "I did" and here is there transaction history from February 8. At no time did paypal even so much as attempt to take money from my account. Please also note that in the meantime I have had to pay these Sellers with money orders for money that Paypal is still TRYING TO COLLECT FROM ME. I used alternative means to pay these sellers so why should I have to pay paypal ANYTHING. They will not verify my account, they will not free my funds and they will not allow me to CLOSE my account because they say I OWE THEM MONEY. If this seems confusing to you and me, it no wonder these completely inept and uneducated "customer service" people are even further causing problems. The bottom line is Paypal should not hire people that haven't got an iq above 180 because if you aren't Mensa registered there is no way in HELL you can get through all the bull))) the red tape and lies and KEEP IT ALL STRAIGHT. If I had the money and the means, I would open up my own Paypal and make a fortune just on the sheer fact that in my opinion NO ONE likes paypal. Here is a thought for everyone: The Federal Law prohibits corporations for "cornering a market" by making it impossible for another company to do business or succeed without its product (i am no lawyer but I know such a thing exists) however, ebay bought paypal and in so doing has pretty much made it the only viable way anyone can get anywhere on their website. This same principal is like Yahoo...they bought a major spyware company....so now anyone who has yahoo on your computer think about that, do you think Yahoo is going to protect your computer NO F'n way. In the same way Paypal will not protect Ebayers and Ebay will not protect Paypal. There has got to be some law protecting the little guy and I MEAN TO FIND IT. When I do, you ALL can join the band wagon FREE OF CHARGE!! I will happily do this and GLADLY ENJOY SEEING PAYPAL and EBAY suffer from the "what goes around comes around theory".

Posted by: Kristin at February 22, 2005 12:58 PM

Do you all know why Paypal holds people's money for 180 days? BECAUSE they are bunch of fucking thieves, and they collect interest on your money. THAT IS THE REAL REASON WHY PAYPAL HOLDS YOUR MONEY FOR 180 DAYS. BECAUSE THEY COLLECT INTEREST ON YOUR SHIT. That is how this company became rich. These people are the biggest bunch of assholes IN THE WORLD

Posted by: Tyler at March 10, 2005 03:36 PM

paypal is a total ripoff! I've been trying to get money out of an account for YEARS now!

They have given me every excuse in the book for NOT letting me have the money and close the account. My address was a p.o. box...
NOT! The house has been on this lot since 1930~
I sent a bill that came to my house, dr. lic, etc. and the "manager" refused it! Then I forgot the password, so they want ALL my ID including bank acct statement. FK THAT! I've tried and tried and tried. Emailed, followed directions from person at 800 number, etc. The company is just a plain and simple ripoff and I'm aghast that so many people are using it...especially after all the different states filing class action lawsuits against

WHY do they want my bank account STATEMENT?????

PS. Your 'terms' link is invalid

Posted by: cssky at March 12, 2005 09:53 AM

Nice work, if I were you i'm gonna immediately interview with 60 minutes saying that paypal froze my account to warn everyone. I almost gonna post my credit card in paypal account before I read www.paypalsucks.com i'll never use them again & i will warn people about paypal froze people account for nothing. Nice work through, how do you record conversation on the phone? Thanks.

Posted by: Pitt at March 13, 2005 02:27 AM

Can I use parts of your MP3 on a commercial recording? I am writing a song about the "rights" of consumers, maybe open up some more eyeballs to your plight.

Posted by: Brett Rock at April 9, 2005 11:00 AM

If you want to hit them where it hurts, file a complaint against them with the fbi.

This isn't a link intended to earn money, this is a link intended for those with a ligitimate complaint to file it with people who can investigate your information.

here's the official link to file a complaint with the fbi of internet fraud.


This is where you file official complaints against internet fraud or questionable activity

I did, and others are doing the same.

Posted by: Mike at April 13, 2005 09:53 AM

After viewing several anti-PayPal sites, I closed my account this afternoon. I will be contacting my bank and I will cancel my current debit card and request a new debit card, new account numbers for my checking and savings account, and I will also request a "stop order" against PayPal, which would prevent them from touching any of my accounts. I never linked my bank accounts to PayPal, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

What I want to know is this, if so many people are having problems with PayPal, and even with the few lawsuits filed against them, why hasn't someone stepped in and put an end to PayPal's games? You can only do so much by complaining to the BBB, the IFCC or the DA. I want to see someone ballsy enough to open a major investigation into PayPal's practices and nail them with a huge fine. A lot of people criticize Microsoft for being an evil corporation, but when was the last time Microsoft froze someone's assets and stole their money?

Posted by: Chris at April 23, 2005 06:18 PM

You were in your rights to record the call if you two were in different states. I know stuff like this. When you do stuff like I do, you need to know this stuff

Posted by: Matthew at June 2, 2005 09:47 PM

OK, i have one more to add to the list. I sold an item on ebay, and the buyer paid via paypal. The stupid bastards charged his credit card account $600 instead of $114 as they should have. So, he did a chargeback and now my account is -$127 (114 plus a "service charge"--some service, huh?).

I emailed paypal and they ignored me, so I called this morning. Evidently, since I didn't check my email within 30 days that gave them the right to fuck me over. They told me nicely that it was none of their concern anymore and that maybe I could contact an "internet fraud service."

Yeah, that sounds really good, the internet police will come and save me!! Paypal is a joke, and the joke is on its customers.

Posted by: Maitland at June 5, 2005 03:28 PM

I have been reading these sites for months now and everybody is right, especially if you are a seller. Paypal lies, plain and simple. They will tell you about "suspicious activity" etc for any reason they want and demand a list of all of your suppliers and further verification of ID and social security numbers etc.

Let me give you some tips. PayPal IS stupid, and if you are so inclined, they are easy to beat (no you won't get any money back but at least you can still do business).

If you are selling on Ebay and your account is limited, you MUST embrace the fact that they will never lift this restriction. Further ID inquiries are only measures to further prevent you from ever re-registering again. Do not be fooled by this and comply with completely unrealistic demands. They will ask you to show "proof of sufficient inventory" for items that have long ago been shipped and received, and who knows how they go about comparing your supplier to some list they have. Business relationships take time to nurture and develop, and I'll be damned if I'm going to just hand over 3rd party information for transactions that didn't occur anywhere NEAR paypal for their "internal investigation". What gives them the right? If there truly is a complaint, PLEASE let me know and I will take care of it directly with the customer. They certainly haven't contacted ME, so they must have lied and abused the paypal dispute system, don't you think?

Anyway, your account can be compared to a new one in any number of ways from your Name and address to account numbers and phone numbers. Now here is where Paypal is DUMB for your exploitation.

Paypal has MILLIONS of accounts, so most of this policing must be done by computer. All you need a couple of checking accounts and a PO box or two. If your account is limited, just say goodbye to it. NEVER keep more than 2 digit amounts in there, transfer daily if necessary!

If you try to re-register with the same bank account, forget it, it will be caught immediately because it is exact. You'll have to call your bank and get your account numbers changed. It's a hassle waiting a week for a new debit card and new checks, but what are you gonna do? Also get ringmaster that gives you 2 or 3 phone numbers on the same line.

Names are easier, many people have the same name, but it doesn't hurt to mix it up a little, maybe use initials for first name or throw an extra letter in the last name that the bank would overlook as acceptable for a deposit. Barring that, addresses can be mixed up too. If you put Rd. in the first time, spell out ROAD next time. The computer won't catch it, just make sure you have a new account number and a new e-mail address (hotmail or similar).

Billing addresses are easy, you can use your P.O. box or get a new one. Verification is easy too, you can change your billing address for the bank online usually and it takes effect immediately. Go ahead and put that address in and get it verified, then change it back online with your bank afterwards.

NEVER send your social security number though, you only have one and once it's on record you'll never have a chance to comply again, and really at this point you probably need to abandon the account anyway. If you've already done this once, don't worry about it, just know that new accounts you will not be able to even attempt to do the fax dance with them, but as I've said, they won't do it anyway even so, so no big deal.

It's possible to have 5 accounts at a time really that are not linked unless they want to comb through millions of accounts by hand, which they're not gonna do. Just outsmart the computer, that's all. Automation can be your friend.

mycheckfree and bidpay are also easy to get, but ebay has done a pretty good job of making paypal standard, so in some way it will hurt to not be able to take paypal.

ALWAYS keep one ebay and paypal account completely separate only for buying. This will insure that you are never "suspended for life" as it were.

None of this of course is really fraudulent, it's just countermove insite to correct for their mistakes and unethical information inquiries for anyone who truly believes in personal privacy. The information provided is ALWAYS valid. Just not what they had on you before.

Oh and lastly, use an internet service provider that uses DHCP, not Static IP. So everytime you sign online your address is different than last time. If you ever logout of one paypal account and want to sign in to another, disconnect first and reconnect, delete all cookies and temp internet files, THEN sign in to the other account. If you're not going to have more than one at a time, don't worry about those last things.


Posted by: Per at June 8, 2005 12:30 AM

I am a Paypal member in Hong Kong and Paypal recently froze my account for selling illegal items. I have never sold anything but only purchased stuff on Ebay. I have never filed a chargeback or had a dispute ever.
They ask me to REMOVE illegal items from my website and sign a declaration. I do not have a fucking website. I called them and they pretty much tell me to fuck off. There is $600+ in my account sent to me by someone and I have asked him to file a chargeback with his card.
The good news topday is that Google is starting a service and I hope it does well.

Posted by: Chan at June 19, 2005 04:55 AM

Just like to say that being a new customer to PayPal his a pain in the neck they shut me down for no reason and keeped my money £175.I would not go back to them if they offerd me £10.000 not that they would.What made me write this was i read MARC PERKEL RANTZ web page.

Posted by: steve at July 1, 2005 01:02 AM

That was very interesting conversation bringing what is worse about that cheating money steeling paypal. I am a victom of paypal as well, however when my account was limited i was not able to refund my customers, PAYPAL DID NOT LET ME DO THAT, i had to email over 100 people and ask them to file the complain against me in order to get their money back. I looked like an idiot!!! Thanks paypal, it caused me to receive several bad feedbacks and eventualy ebay cloosed that account also. Once again thanks to paypal.
But no worries, there are other ways of selling and accepting paymets.
I am waiting for some serious company that will take over paypal market share, i know it will take some time for the idea to grow but eventualy it will come up.

Posted by: Kuro at July 11, 2005 01:46 PM

Your tape was a genius idea, dude NICE WORK!!!!!
but that made me thinking, some guys said that paypal lied when new that guy was recording, now
That is an idea, call them without telling that conversation has been recorded and than later, call about the same account but let them know that the phone call is recorded,
I will bet you, CASH THAT PAYPAL is still holding, over 2k, that those conversation will be different, - little experiment,
another issue, paypal is used all over the globe, we do have power to do something about it in usa, but do you know what paypal does to people from outside of us, it is much worse as i heard, and they dont have voice to be heard,
ooooo that reminds me, if you are still a user of paypal account i would be very carefull accepting payments from other countries, paypal will red list your account and it will get suspended if you receive complain,
there is sooo many things that i could write about that thief company,
ohhhhhh just for the record, just like you said, they will refund your money quickly, they have lots of legal actions going right now, and they do want to prevent new one from occuring, i do believe that you will get your money back just to shut your mouth. MARK!!!! i think that you are doing a great job, keep up with a good job,
give back paypal what they deserve!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Bart at July 11, 2005 06:59 PM

Go get 'em Mark. Keep me inform or on your mailing list about these clowns at paypal.
They stole my money also. About $6000.
Anyhow I am hoping to see the fall of paypal.
It will happen. Thanks.

Posted by: Charles Rosaly at July 23, 2005 01:49 AM






Posted by: Kristi Jaso at September 1, 2005 06:56 PM

hi!! I got a problem with paypal the other day which made them close my account. Seems like they decided to close my account because my email was linked to the guy that owns the postal service here in panama. Looks like the guy in the postal service had a mess with some dude that bought him a watch.
The thing is that paypal closed his account becuase they felt they didnt want to do business with him any longer(i guess its true, you do business with whoever you want). The problem here is that i used his computer in the post office business because he has a internet cafe there.
The geniuses at paypal went on and linked me with him and decided to close my account.Which drives me to the question which is.....what do i have to do with the owner of the postal service and his little watch mess???????
I tried to talk to them in many ways and even spoke to a senior bla bla dude. They simply sent me packing!
This is not over yet, people. My son went on and got married and came to panama to live. Him and his wife were getting along fine because the were selling items like clothes and whatever on ebay. Suddenly a new ebay user bought a tshirt off of my son and paid it thru paypal. The buyer only had 8 feedbacks and she was impatient with the items arrival which from panama to the states takes approx. 15 days! So she ran and posted a bad feedback on my son after 5 days. My son tried to talk to the girl and she was just closed minded. Paypal right away and limited my sons account and kept his $1130 for those 6 months. Now the payment service for them was closed and now they have to use things like bidpay, checks and mail in moneyorders which obviouosly arent popular. My son is up shit creek and his ebay selling status totally deteorated. Now my son is running all over panama trying to find a decent job to maintian my grandson and his wife.

Posted by: JOHN at September 26, 2005 11:59 PM

LOL!! That was great. You NEED a fallowup phone call recorded. I want to hear what the outcome is. There is a discussion going on at Invisionize in the general chat so Ill try and get the fallow up on there as soon as I see one. Dont stand for this!!

Posted by: Shane at October 1, 2005 09:54 PM

I heard people complaining about paypal but I never had problems with them until now. I've been dealing with them over a year and brought them so much business. Put that besides, I had an ebay buyer in Spain purchase an item from me in Canada. The buyer wanted shipping by sea which takes upto 8 weeks or over and this was explained to the buyer already. The buyer after about 6 weeks claimed buyer protection dispute as 'non-receipt'. I then provided paypal with a tracking number right away. Of course the online website did not show that the package is delivered yet. Paypal finally closed the dispute on buyer's favor and took my money back to the buyer. After 1 day from that date, the online proved that the package was in fact delivered to the buyer. I called paypal and told them to check it out, they ignored my request over few weeks, and I kept on emailing them and calling them until I was heard. Finally, they said yes the website shows the package was delivered but does not show Where It Was Delivered! What the fuck? So I faxed the shipping receipt which clearly shows the address and name of the buyer. With all these clear evidences, paypal had nothing to say but CONTACT THE BUYER YOURSELF AND GET THE MONEY!!!!! WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT??? PAYPAL'S FUCKING USER AGREEMENT IS TOTALLY WRONG! THEY CAN'T TAKE MY MONEY AS THEY WISH ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY MADE A MISTAKE ON THEIR DECISION!!! Paypal is not just protecting themselves, but making definite mistakes by TAKING MY MONEY AND GIVING BACK TO THE BUYER!! NOW I HAVE NO MONEY, NO ITEM!!!!

Posted by: gk at November 6, 2005 12:45 AM

I haven't used PayPal for 3 years and here's why(Marc you should like this story): I use to participate in one of those *other* activities mentioned on Perkel's website. If the client wanted Domination, for an extra fee, I would record the session (it really truely was strickly Domination and I enjoyed beating the crap out of the the bastard! lol!) and send the tape to my client. They had to pay for the service in advance via PayPal. I have never trusted PayPal so whenever someone sent me money through there I always deposited it electronically to my bank account immediately. Well, that little prick I enjoyed pounding on so much gave me the wrong address to mail his tape. By this time the money he sent was already in my bank account. I told him if he still wanted the tape he was going to have to pay the postage part all over again because it wasn't my fault he's an idiot. I even verified his mailing address for the tape when he was at my dungeon. He protested the extra postage part. So he disputed the payment on PayPal. PayPal sends me an email. I reported my bank account compromised and got a new account number on it....just in case PayPal decided to withdraw the funds without my permission using their legal mumble jumble. Then PayPal put my PayPal account in the negative and sent me an email asking me to put funds in there to cover the negative using either credit card or bank account. I didn't of course. By that time they knew the payment was for adult services which they don't like and a violation of their policies (it wasn't when I first got the account but they changed their policies by the time of this incident). So they weren't going to side with me no matter what now even though I had proof I mailed the tape (certified mail) and that delivery failed. So I said to myself fuck it. They even sent me a collection notice which I burned in effigy. Funny, even though they ask for a social security number when you sign up, there's nothing on my credit report from them. Oh, there's a domination tape sitting in a landfill somewhere.

Posted by: angie at December 2, 2005 05:54 PM

Paypal seems to have no recourse for the seller of an ebay auction to defend themself...what really sucks is they have access to your accounts...Not happy with paypal and thinking about closing my acct with them...

Posted by: Counselor at December 3, 2005 05:29 AM


I spent 30 minutes on the telephone BEFORE I opened an account with PP. I only needed to use the account ONCE and the total I would be sending from the account would be £380. The reason I made contact with them before opening the account was because I DO NOT have a credit or debit card so I am unable to accommodate their verification process. The chap on the other end of the telephone told me that I had nothing to worry about for as long as I sent no more than £500 a month I would be OK.

The reason I opened the account was so I could pre-purchase a number of V Music Festival Tickets for next summer. The person who is selling them lives up in Lancashire, and I am down here in Hertfordshire, and despite several requests to be allowed to purchase the tickets by registered cash, cheque, direct bank deposit, this person made it perfectly clear that if I wanted the tickets I would need to have a Paypal account.

Anyway, I funded the account to the exact amount required to pay for the tickets and the respective postal fees, sent the money to the seller and looked forward to an email confirmation that the monies had arrived and that the tickets would be winging their way to me around the 2nd week in July of next year.

I was away for a few days so I assumed that no news was good news. That was indeed not the case for when I returned home there was one email from Paypal and around 15 from the seller. Paypal had 'frozen' my account, put the funds I credited into my account and subsequently sent to the seller, and to top it off ALSO frozen the account of the seller!

I have spent no less than 2 hours on the telephone to Paypal and the best I can say about them is that they are utterly pathetic. I do not use the word 'useless' because what they are doing they are doing well. They are keeping me on the telephone generating funds from their National Rate telephone number and by the time I have started screaming down the telephone nothing has been achieved and they are a few quid better off than before I picked up the telephone.

Why was my account frozen? They will not say. Why was the seller's account frozen? They will not say.

What they continue to say is that the ONLY way I can now access the 'placed' funds is to VERIFY MY ACCOUNT!

They are well aware that I spoke with them with regards to my concerns PRIOR to opening the account and they are well aware that the fact still remains that I am unable to accommodate their verification process yet they keep coming back to me stating that I need to do this?!?!?

Since this occurred I have searched for incidents of this nature all over the Internet, and what I believe has happened is that I have fallen for what I could call an 'Interest Net'.

As I am unable provide them with a debit or credit card (of course I have a passport, driving license, birth certificate and a huge number of other documents proving who I am, but they do not deem this 'adequate'! so ultimately it seems that they are going to sit on my money for 6 months before releasing it to me.

£380 is a heck of a lot of money for a student, but that is just part of the problem. I have a screaming ebay seller calling me 6 times a day and emailing even more often telling me he is going to drive down and beat the crap out of me for messing up his trading. I have lost the tickets and I very much doubt if I will get 4 of them anywhere near the price I (was) paying for them.

This has (and continues) to be an stressful and extremely unhappy experience for me but it appears my hands are truly tied by Paypal and their 'flexible' terms and conditions.

Companies should simply NOT be able to trade like this and I plan on contacting the FSA first thing on Monday morning.

The bottom line is that should Paypal initiate the verification process when I opened the account (similar to normal banking policies) this would not have happened) and I would not be sleeping maybe one or two hours each night.

Paypal are nothing short of a disgrace.

If anyone has any assistance they may be able to send my way I would be more than grateful.


Posted by: Mark at December 4, 2005 06:49 PM

I see it's an international community, PayPal's victims. There are millions of 'PayPal sucks' sites in the internet. My account has been frozen for nothing, but won't accept it.


Posted by: Werner at December 9, 2005 12:13 PM

They just froze $8,000 of my money from selling laptops on eBay. PAYPAL SUCKS! This recording is funny as hell!!

Posted by: Jordan at December 20, 2005 09:03 AM

Word! Thanks for this recording, my argument skills have went up by 100 thanks to you, PAY PAL SUCK!

Posted by: Lawrence at December 31, 2005 12:46 PM

Pay Pal does truly suck & Ebay is the giant nipple that pay pal sucks on..I bought muliple items from multiple auctions from one seller..Then a few hours after the auctions ended I paid the seller by pay pal..The next day theh seller tells me he doesn't have the items and that they might have them in 10 days and that I could wait or ask for a refund all I had to do was reply with my decision, so I replied ok I don't wanna wait 10 days and maybe you still don't have the merchandise and I need it by Christmas so waiting 10 days was not acceptabe and instructied the seller to simple refund my money as the had promissed to do..2 days pass and I recieve no refund or a reply from thes ebay seller..So I go to ebay and see if anyone is leaving neg feedback for this seller and I notice that that ebay has suppened the seller,so then I panic and file a complaint with pay pal to get my money back..Well that was Dec 8th..It's now Jan 1 and pay pal says they are still reviewing the case,even though the seller has made no attempt to comment to pay pal on his behalf and pay pal told me days ago that I won the claim,but they had to review it further before refunding me my money..I call them twice and get the same answer..They say they are busy processing a bunch of complaints and will refund me my money soon,but will not give a date as to what "SOON' is..That was 2 weeks ago..STill no refund ,still says pay pal is reviewing the case,even though there is nothing to review..The seller sold tons of merchandise he could not deliver and somehow gets ebay to reinstate his seller account and the crook still owes me nearly $200,but he is still selling on ebay and pay pal is still holding the money I sent this seller..I think nearly a month to refund money that is rightfully mine and that the seller made no attempt to deny me is unjustifiable..The seller did nothing to stop pay pal from refunding me my money..Pay pal is the one not refunding the money..I will be closing my pay pal account soon after I get my money back from them "SOON"...I have looked on the internet for days trying to find a sensible and easy place to sign up to accept online payment and have come up with nothing except mostly companies that either charge a large fee or companies outside the USA,which I will nto dare give out my info to a company overseas..NO WAY !!...Called My bank and they said they can't offer any suggestions either..Can anyone please tell me where I can get an account to accept payment securely online without paying a big fee to join..?? Thanks...Pay Pal & Ebay are partners in crime and I pray everyday that someone would give them some serious competition and cruble thier corproate empire into a pile of rumble like they basicly did to yahoo auctions..Ebay destrooyed yahoo auctions and ebay dominates the online auction market..Surely someone has enough money and energy to make ebay the secondary auction site in the world.. Ebay & Pay Pal Suck they are nothing more than power hungry money gobblers..PLEASE HELP ME FIND A WAY TO ACCEPT PAYMENT ONLINE OzzyRokk@yahoo.com

Posted by: Mr. Unhappy at January 2, 2006 12:51 PM

Thats the email i just sent them. I hate them.

This is absolutely ridiculous. You close out my account I lose thousands. And you reversed 4000 dollars out of my account for no reason at all, and now I have no income. And then you said no we did not reverse 4000 after contacting bank of America and them saying yeah paypal does it all the time. So now you have 4000 of my account and you wonít release it! After taking it out of my account for no reason at all. And the funny part is you reversed the money and then asked to get a positive balance when I had no money because you reversed it. And you ask for me to resolve disputes BUT I CANT GIVE REFUNDS. Paypal is losing so many customers I have talked to hundreds or people who are refusing to use you because of this. And I send my information and then you ask for more and I lose more money. So you put me in a hole you canít get out of. Your user agreement is terrible and the function of the company is horrendous. You donít know if you reverse 4000 dollars. I could have bounced my mortgage because you do it with no warning. How can you fix it. I was giving paypal thousands and now nothing. And all the customer service canít do anything all they say is what they canít do. And you most likely wonít answer this email because you donít ever. You mess with peopleís lives and money. I need my money released immediately. This is ridiculous. Close my account I am never using paypal again but I need my money. And I am sick of faxing the same items over and over which I shall not again I have wasted to much time and energy because the persons job there to look over accounts and ruin peoples business thought I was taking out to much money. There are to many horror stories about paypal to continue supporting your company. I no itís not the representatives fault who is reading this but the companyís policies are intolerable. I donít even no the next step I should take. I have done everything you asked. I made ten thousand last month and now nothing. Thatís like getting fired from your job and being unemployed. Please HELP.

Posted by: Eric at February 5, 2006 09:29 PM

Those motherfuckers at PayPal froze my $3000 from my ebay business. I guess we should make funds to hire hitman to shoot up every single mother fuckers from PayPal. FUCK THEM!!

Posted by: Kaus at February 10, 2006 01:43 AM

those bastards.. froze my sellers account, who now refuses to send my phone since hes afraid that paypal wont give him his money back.. calling them is no help either.. did you know that if you file a complaint and you cancel it.. your screwing yourself? fuck paypal and theyre stupid ways of letting you know after youve been fucked.

Posted by: brother nigel at February 13, 2006 05:02 PM

I've been sending the following message to anyone who may be of any help, this happened on Friday so hopefully tomorrow (monday) I'll hear something as well as continue sending it out to Attorney generals of CA, NE, and MA:

Hi, I am a Power Seller on ebay.com and have been selling and using Paypal since paypal was called X.com, over 6 years ago.

On 2/24 I tried to pay for an auction I won and found out that my Paypal account had been "limited" meaning I can't send or receive payments and can't touch my money that is in the account. I have 3241.97 in the account that I can't touch. This pretty much leaves me no option, I use my Paypal debit card for all of my purchases, so I can't even go and buy a cup of coffee at the moment.

I called Paypal right away to find out what was going on. The representatives were very unhelpful and after calling numerous times found out very little at best. At first they said I was linked to another account and had to resolve the issues with this other account before I could use my own account. I have never had another account so it seems to be a problem on thier end. I sent numerous e-mails to Paypal trying to find out what was going on and all I got in response were useless form letter replies which were contradicted eachother. One would say I need to confirm my address to remove the limitation, I would try to do it, but my address is already confirmed. The next message says the limit won't be removed until the issues with the other account are resolved, stating the e-mail associated with it ends with @aol.com. The next message restates the address confirmation to lift the limitation. They oscilate back and force like that and so far I got 3 or 4 of each. The newer ones mentioning the other account now say I'm linked to 2 other accounts, one @aol.com and one @yahoo.com.

I called continuously and got lucky once and someone told me a name on one of the other acounts even though all the other people told me they couldn't tel me (which makes no sense, if they are telling me that I'm responsible for these accounts and won't let me use my own money they should at least let me know why). It turns out that the name on one (maybe both, but they didn't answer that) is Mark Occapinti. That is the name of my Girlfriends ex-Boyfriend. I have nothing to do with him, never allowed anyone other than myself access to my account, as far as I know he isn't my dependent, nor did I ever cosign anything stating I'd take responsibilty for anything he or anyone else does.

All I was able to find out about the link is that they put the link together through an IP connection. He's never been at my house so he hasn't used my computer. The only thing I can think of is that my Girlfriend used my computer last week to check her own account. We've been together for almost 2 years now. The only thing that I can think of is that she accassed her account at his house in the past so now they have her accessing from 2 IP addresses and at one of those IPs is my account and at the other is his account. So they froze my account and are trying to make me responsible for his debt because of that. They claim that they have no proof that I am not both people as well, lol.

I had my girlfriend (she's much better at getting answers than I am) talk to a Paypal supervisor to try to get it straightened out, she at least got the amount that he apparently owes 898.00. They also told her I have 2 options: Do nothing and let my account remain frozen forever and never get my money, or pay his debt and then I can get my money. I really don't see how they can force me to pay someone else's debt, it really doesn't seem like a legal thing to be able to do. The fact that my account is frozen is really hurting me, I can't use my money nor can I receive payments from buyers, the thought of paying his debt seemed to be my best option to get back on track. The really strange part about it is that for me to pay his debt they would want me to send them a check, even though I have a lot more than he owes in my frozen account. I don't even have 898.00 to send since all of my money is frozen, not that it would even be the right thing to do since it isn't my debt and I should not be responsible for it anyways.

This my even kill my reputation on ebay, I've already had one buyer e-mail me and say they don't want to go through with a purchase since I must be ripping customers off to have my paypal account frozen.

I spent all day yesterday trying to get this resolved and read all kinds of similar store on the internet about other peoples problems with paypal. Many of those people's reputations were destroyed pay Paypals actions and many of them had to change thier lifestyles due to paypal stealing thier money and preventing from making more. I have no idea what this is all going to do to me down the line, but this is my only source of income at the moment and if I can't use my own money to pay bills and will be severly limited with my ebay selling, it doesn't look good for me. I should mention, over 90% of buyers pay me through Paypal. If people can't use paypal as a payment method they are likely to buy from someone else instead.

In summary, the main point is that Paypal froze all of my money and is really hurting me financially because someone else owes them money and they are trying to make me responsible for his debt. Maybe it is legal in some parts of the world but I can't imagine it being legal in the US. If it were people would do it everyday, you'd be able to go order coffee and as long as someone else is in the store you can make them responsible for paying for your coffee, they bought coffee from the same place so they must be connected and should pay for someone else's coffee.

Posted by: joe lynch at February 26, 2006 11:45 PM

I've read a lot of stories , and most seem to end with paypal states they'll give the money back after 180 days. Out of curiousity, how often do they actually give it back? Anyone know? I see all the stories but I never see mention of anyone actually stating they got it back. I have 6 hours before the bank is open and then I'm going to close my bank account before they can overdraw my bank account as well as steal the money they already did. I'm also going to have to cancel my credit card on file, but then I'll have absolutely no way to buy or pay for anything. I used to think paypal was great, now I know the truth.

Posted by: joe lynch at February 26, 2006 11:57 PM



Dear Israel torres matos,

Thank you for inquiring as to how to restore access to your account.

PayPal is constantly working to ensure security by regularly screening the
accounts in our system. We recently reviewed your account, and need more
information to help us provide you with secure service. Until we can
collect this information, your access to sensitive account features will be

To return your account to regular standing, please complete the checklist
items indicated when you login to your account and click on the link
provided on the 'Account Overview' page.

The link will appear as: Click to Resolve or Check Status.

Once you complete all of the checklist items, our Account Review team will
review your case and send you an email with the outcome of the review.
Cases are reviewed in the order they are received.

We apologize for the inconvenience, and we would like to restore your
access as soon as possible.

Please do not respond to this email, as responses to this message will not
be answered.


PayPal Account Review Team

This email is sent to you by the contracting entity to your User Agreement,
either PayPal Inc or PayPal (Europe) Limited. PayPal(Europe) Limited is
authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority in the UK as
an electronic money institution.

Note: When you click on links in this email, you will be asked to log into
your PayPal Account. As always, make sure that you are logging into a
secure PayPal page by looking for 'https://www.paypal.com/' at the
beginning of the URL.

Form Message
customer message: porque no han marcado la evidencia de tracking number si
yo se las he enviado por fax todas las demas estan marcadas menos la del
shipping que dice resolve tomen carta en el asunto asi como yo les he
cumplido con todo lo sugerido y todavia no puedo tener acceso a mi
dinero,inclusive ya he dialogado con el comprador de el equipo y esta
sorprendido de lo sucedido, todo lo de la mercancia le llego bien. asi que
todavia sigo sin entender, por que si fue por lo de la pregunta de la
cuenta de cheque es por que no entendia como podia realizar los pasos
,ademas de todo esto mi madre judith matos es parte de mis negocios y
maneja la contabilidad razon por lo cual la cuenta esta a nombre de ella y
somos familia y ala misma vez socios .De la situacion continuar sin
resolverse lo consultare legalmente ya que debo tener acceso a mi dinero
inmediatamente ya que he tenido que hacer arreglos por no tener ese dinero
disponible y me estan limitando a mi negocio creo que he cumplido con todo
sus requisitos este servidor israel torres matos esta disponible para
hablar con ustedes por telefono igualmente judith matos gracias por su
pronta atencion.


We have reviewed your PayPal Account, and due to the excessive risk
involved, we would like to begin parting ways in a manner that is least
disruptive to your business.

Please reply to this email by logging in to your PayPal account and
filling out the Limited Account Access web form to facilitate the
disbursement of any funds remaining in your PayPal account. You can
locate the web form by typing the following in your browser:
https://www.paypal.com/emailus, choosing the topic "Limited Account
Access," clicking "Continue," and writing your instructions in the
message box.

Disbursement can be handled in one of two ways:

1. Your remaining account balance can be used to provide refunds to your
buyers (if applicable).


2. Your remaining account balance will be held in your PayPal account
for 180 days from the date your account was limited. After 180 days, you
will be notified via email with information on how to receive your
remaining funds.

If you choose to provide refunds to your customers, please log in to
your account and contact us with a list of transaction IDs for the
buyers that you would like to refund.

We thank you for your prompt attention to this matter and apologize for
any inconvenience this may cause.

Please do not reply to this e-mail. Mail sent to this address will not
be received and therefore, not answered. For assistance, log in to your
PayPal account and click the "Help" link in the footer of any page. If
your inquiry is regarding a claim, log in to your PayPal account and go
to the Resolution Center.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.

PayPal Resolution Services
PayPal, an eBay Company

Posted by: israel at March 2, 2006 12:59 PM

I own a large chain of Health Food Stores and we have a e-commerce site I won't post the link here, don't want to be confused with a commerical advertisement. But anyway Paypal claimed we were selling illegal drugs and closed our account. All calls to help resolve this were met with rudeness and an attitude of we just don't care.

Paypal is an ugly monster, I will never do business with them or ebay again.

BTW, the mp3 of the paypal incident was excellent, nice job.


Posted by: Don at March 7, 2006 08:26 PM

hi just like to say really enjoyed your mp3.the idiots at paypal have also limited our account as i had two accounts with the same bank details and to paypal this is a good enough reason to limit my account.DO NOT USE PAY PAL THEY ARE WANKERS

Posted by: heln n mick at March 8, 2006 07:25 AM

I to just closed my account due to mark, can't believe they could do that. Thanks for the info. I didn't do much business with them but they will no longer make a penny off me. Fight the MACHINE!!

Posted by: ADam at March 15, 2006 03:39 AM

I was asking my friend for money which I needed urgently. Now as my account got locked I owe my friend money and I still need money for my own.

If I ever get my money back I will never again use PayPal!

Posted by: Jessica Ruby at March 19, 2006 12:16 PM

Hi. My story is the same as many of the stories mentioned above. Account frozen because it was linked with another user. They won't even tell me who the other user is & I don't care. After reading all the complaints above it appears to be common practice with these jerks. Basically, they think they have the right to be the judge, jury & executioner.

I hope so much that everyone who has had problems will write to the Attorney General of California as well as the Attorney General of your own state. Then be sure to contact the FBI's Internet fraud division mentioned above.

The only way we can stop these thieves is to take action with the Attorney General's, the FBI & tell everyone we know about what they are doing.

Please take action & don't let them get away with what they continue doing to good law abiding citizens each and every day. They only froze $63 of mine, but I'm treating it as if it were $6,300 & I'm going to fight back. It's the principal. Let's not let them continue to get away with this. PLEASE TAKE ACTION! Write to John Stossel, (give me a break) contact your local news station, contact national news stations. There is a lot we can do. Please report these jerks and let's expose them for what they really are. CROOKS & THIEVES!

Posted by: Tim H. at March 19, 2006 06:54 PM

Same thing here. Paypal limited my account and said I need to reverify my information as well as consent to a credit check. A credit check! I don't need credit, I need my money! They are holding about $260 of mine hostage until I verify my location and home number and all this other crap that hasn't changed in years. They also reversed my transaction from Sunday night and put the money back into my Paypal account. Every cust. serv. rep said the same thing, submit as much info as possible by fax and then call them back. If they weren't so big in this industry, I wouldn't touch them. But they are, and they know it.

The only excuse they would give me for keeping MY money is that from time to time they review accounts randomly, and it was my time. Funny that is corresponded with the first couple of times that I have sold on ebay in years. Within 2 days my account is frozen and reverified for the 4th time.

Paypal sucks and I hate them with a passion. They didn't wait to take their cut of my money when it sold, but now they won't give me my share. Sons of bitches...

Posted by: Matt at March 28, 2006 10:06 PM

Hello, Great idea with recording the call. The same shit happened to my paypal account where they decided to close because they "think" I might have other paypal accounts open. PAYPAL does suck!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Danielle at April 1, 2006 08:52 AM

sold a mirror to someone via ebay. they paid via paypal. it was an on site pickup listing, which was clearly stated on listing. this buyer gave me every excuse in her not coming to pickup mirror in a timely matter. they i get an email from paypal stating a HOLD on the funds she has paid me because she claimed i have not offered " my end of the bargain". i sent paypal the emails from her claiming she had all these excuses in not picking up. i even sent paypal my emails to her asking her when is she coming. lo-and-behold THEY REFUNDED THE BITCH HER MONEY!

Posted by: MR JOHNSON at April 1, 2006 02:45 PM

has anyone looked at the "uniform commerical code" ,, this governs such things as lost checks, ie your bank has the cancled check, the outfit you wrote it to says you didn't pay and will not accept proof via cancled check,, ucc says if cancled by your bank all writers responsibility is fullfilled and they must give you credit or be criminally prosecuted, for fraud or theft i think, your local states atourney or federal prosecuter, as transaction went accross state lines, mail fraud if usps was used, remember movie "the firm ",,,, how about a class action suit?????? i would like that,,

Posted by: steve britweiser at April 3, 2006 12:45 PM

Hi, just wanted to throw in my 2 cents...or what's left of it. Paypal FROZE my account yesterday. I was counting on that money to pay my car insurance and electric bill. Paypal STOLE $382 right out of my hands!!

Posted by: Pamela at April 14, 2006 11:43 PM

I was going to make a paypal today, but my freind told me about this site right before, and now I refuse to, thanks!

Posted by: jackson at April 18, 2006 07:17 PM

paypal ripped me off too. a buyer filed a non-receipt claim and in the comment section said "i haven't received it until now." they ruled in favor of the buyer even though he clearly admitted to getting the item! it was a sony laptop and now they want me to give the guy $1700 back when he already received the item. they closed my account for fraud, too, even though i provided a tracking number. so that's how it works, huh? i send the item, the buyer files a claim admitting he got the goods, and i have to pay him back just because the buyer knows how to hit the submit button on the claim form? i'm so pissed. why aren't we filing a class action lawsuit since there are so many of us involved with paypal scams??

Posted by: webmaster at April 18, 2006 07:40 PM

During one of those "Duh" moments it suddenly occured to me that after freezing my account due to "suspicious activity" - meaning that I had the nerve to make 3 withdrawals in the space of a week - PayPal, in pocketing fees from any questionable sales, are in fact taking money that they would have me believe was obtained fraudulently. All I sold were items from my DVD and computer game collection but I got to wondering, if I'd sold any hemp products, I could have shopped PP for laundering possible drugs money!

Posted by: S Tyler at May 8, 2006 04:43 PM

I was just about to sign with paypal..decided to do some diggin...fuck u paypal

Posted by: granite at May 15, 2006 06:30 AM

Paypal froze my account too. Siting a payment that I HAD MADE as the reason! I sent money to someone so they froze my account WTF. Then my pending e-checks they sent back to my customers cheating me out of more money. Then they requested all sorts of outrageous information about me to re-open my account which i felt identity theft in the air so did not respond. This site is horrible and I can't recommend anyone use them. I am so glad for your site to expose them as the leaches and cheats they are. Also beware people if you sell someone something off e-bay and they file a complaint against you paypal will refund them thier money so they get thier money back and your product. This is a huge scam going on. Please be aware

Posted by: JAMES at May 17, 2006 02:43 PM


Posted by: noname at May 27, 2006 05:51 AM

paypal is a cheat
i was paying for my servers
and been paying for past few months
and this month i paid for my 2 server and also skype
and they limited my account and kept the money
they didn't pay to the ISp
servesta and leaseweb

i have to pay them in another forum other than paypal again

and i am making a chargeback at paypal as they withheld the money
and ask for utility bill

what a damn utility bill going to prove of my legitimate transaction

they are real nuts
paypal and all the staffs must be hanged by their balls for keeping their brain there

Posted by: Siddhattha at May 29, 2006 05:28 PM

Just wanted to post that I am other victim of PayPal's scam. They are also holding my money for 6 months. Thanks for putting up this site and the MP3 file of your phone conversation.

Posted by: Ron at June 5, 2006 09:31 AM

WELL, I"m BACK AGAIN.Wanna hear something funny?..Ok On last report I was ripped off by an ebay seller and paypal finally after they closed my account refunded the money I sent to the seller from my pay pal account..That was back in Dec of 2005 when the original transaction took place and I filed a buyer complaint..So Now after 5 months I finally recieved a refund for merchandise i never recieved..Maybe paypal saw my comment here and close my account for that reason..LOL..They could ya know..Well if you aare here,ya already know paypal sux..

SEE MY EARLIER ENTRY ON THIS PAGE FOR MORE DETAILS OF THIS TRANSACTION..Ok anyway..So paypal closed my account kept my money and said that it was for selling adult items and accepting paypal, although the items I was selling were pictures of women..No where in my auctions was sex metioned,nor anything sexual nor to lead anyone to believe it was sexual..Every picture of every girl also showed a girl clothed..None of the pictures had any nudity whatsoever,NONE ,,0 ,,,ZILCH,,,Yet based on paypal's sole desrection they closed my account and claimed that I violated their user agreement by accepting paypal for what they called obscene materials...

Now keep in mind the fact that my pictures contained no nudity whatsoever,made no comment or suggestion that they were in anyway sexualy oriented,nor contained any nudity and were not listed in the adult section of ebay and certainly were not obscene by any standard in the USA..Yet paypal closed my account anyway ,held my money..

I ask them how they came to the conlusion that pictures of clothed females or anyone for that matter constituted a violation of their adult materials policy..Ok I admit the girls were wearing bathing suits and sleepwear,NOT LINGERIE,,Nothing see thru..Just simple cotton sleepwear like you see in any sales paper for any dept store selling sleepwear..Imagine a major dept store sales paper with pictures of women wearing sleepwear..Were talking cotton briefs,tops,cotton pajamas.Things of that nature..Yet paypal saw that as obscene and closed my account..Also no one was touching themselves in any way in the pictures either....Ok Well, paypal did give me my money back well before the 180 day period after the threat of a descrimination lawsuit being filed against them...There are or were also flaws in paypals 2006 revised user agreement..

Anyway anyone that discontinues doing business with you solely on speclulation on their part but allows others to continue doing business with them and selling something that is basicly the same and in most cases far worse than what you were selling ,is simply called descrimination and it will stand up in court if you collect enough evidence of excessive violations of this type of activity..It is also considered conspiracy ,unfair business practice,(descrimination) and could possibly be considered fraud on paypals part since they are in violation of their own policy..

People who use paypal to pay for items have no clue as to what it is like to use paypal as a merchant,yet they should,sadly the ones who do could less about what paypal policy means for a merchants ,but I bet they would if the same rules applied to a buyer..Example..say as a buyer , you bought something or made a donation and used paypal to send the money,but paypal decided was illegal or obscene or whatever and since you paid for this item with your paypal account ,they then cose your account and place a 180 day hold on whatever money you had in your account..I guarantee you more and more people would stop thinking paypal is such a great little company to use and would stop using paypal..

Here's another thought you might want to consider..If you can't buy nor make donations for whatever you chose and pay for it with YOUR MONEY in your paypal account why would you use paypal?..Why would you support the use of a company that tells you what you can and can't do with YOUR NONEY?.. If no one spend their on what they want with the money in thier paypal account they would have no need for paypal and if there is no need for paypal then paypal will be disolved for the most part or possibly have to go out of business..Goodness and if that happen a lot of people could lose the money they have in their paypal account..how is that possible..Well my friends first you must understand paypal is not a bank and your money in paypal is not FDIC protected..Paypla could close their dorrs tomorrow ,pack up and move on and you would have to go through hell and court to ever possibly ever get your money back from them..It could happen,don't think it could'nt..

Paypal has lost billions of dollars this year and will continue losing money ..So far this year paypal screwed themselves out of billions of dollars when they closed thousands of accounts without any evidence to back up their reasons for closing accounts and not only did they lose money,but millions of paypal users can no longer use paypal to buy items they could once use paypal for ,because those merchants are no longer allowed to accept pay pal and many no oonger have a pay pal account because paypal closed their account for selling something or accepting donations for something paypal didn't like..

Ok surely you see what I'm getting at...It's basicly this ..Paypal ,much like ebay is ruling themselves out of billions of dollars and hopefully to the point of having to go out of business someday or at least becoming second or third place in the online seling and payment business..Especially in paypals case..IF PEOPLE HAVE A NO USE FOR PAYPAL DUE TO PAYPALS LIMITATIONS ON WHAT A MERCHANT CAN ACCEPT PAYPAL FOR,A BUYER CAN NO LONGER BUY CERTAIN ITEMS WITH PAYPAL,THEREFORE THEY WILL HAVE NO USE FOR PAYPAL..So basicly if no one has a use for paypal ,paypal will no longer exsist..

As for ebay..ha, they have also gotten too big for their own good and become scared in the process..I remember when you could buy practicly anything in the world on ebay and it was an exciting place to shop,but over the years due to numerous ebay policy changes ebay has become an extremely boring place to shop and not really any safer than before,regardless of what they try to lead you to believe..

Ebay has become like a store that carries the same items day after day and basicly never stocks anything different,hence not enough variety in what is offered ,therefore boring..Here's the biggest joke I see on ebay ,,,I recently reveiwed their policies for what they call the ADULT SECTION ..What a joke..The have so many limitaions on what you can show or say in an adult auction that most people have no clue as to what they are actually bidding on..Why would anyone want to buy something that they have very little informtion on?..Who buys a pig in a poke?..Is it bacon,pork chops,etc..what is in the poke?..Oh it's a pig, well is it a whole pig? ,a live pig? a young pig? an old pig? or a processed pig,etc?..You get my point?..

Ebay has imposed so many rules for sellers in the adult section that no one knows for sure what they are bidding on..Don't dare use the word Amateur either unless you are selling Amateurs playing softball fully clothed,but ya have to be careful cause if ya say ball or bat in an adult auction,,ebay's system may detect it and think you are using a ball bat on your self or someone in a porno flick and cancel your auction without actually going to it nd reading the description..Yes ths has happen..

You also can't say something like Hi ,I'm Cindy and I'm a Young college student selling my home video..I'm an amateur guitarist or singer or whatever,blah blah (You get my point)..The words "YOUNG" and "AMATEUR" will get your auction cancelled,if you ever manage to get it listed without some lame ebay warning popping up in the process or submitting your listing..I'm serious..It really happens,Why because in ebays mind the word YOUNG means under age..Amteur is just that Amateur ,Ok so what is wrong with being an amateur?..Ebay sees Amateur as probably somehthing that was made and being sold without someones permission or that may have someone nude or performing sexual acts..Which should'nt matter to ebay anyway,seeing how the user policy clearly states ebay is not legally responsible for what someone lists anyway..But here's the deal, if someone were to break the law for selling something illegal on ebay and it made the news it would make ebay look bad..Ya see..That's the real deal..It's ebay looking out for ebay and ebay could care less about who did what in a movie or pictures nor could care less about you as a person,a buyer or a seller..Ebay is watching out for ebay only..

Ebay has become so lame on so many asspects of word detection that you could lose your mind trying to list something and could also have your auction cancelled by ebay for no real reason other than word detection..

I assume this is ebays way of eventually doing away with adult items on ebay all together..If no one will bid on a pig in a poke,no one will keep trying to sell a pig in a poke,therfore no more pigs in a poke on ebay..That's a good thing cause who would wanna buy a pig in a poke?..If ebay's ADULT ITEMS LISTING POLCIES AND WORD DETECTION WASN"T SO LAME,PEOPLE WOULD'NT HAVE TO LIST A PIG IN A POKE and BUYERS WOULD'NT BE HAVING TO BID ON A PIG IN A POKE,CAUE THE SELLER COULD SAY & SHOW EXACTLY WHAT IT IS THEY ARE SELLING...

Well forget ebay for adult items,cause it's becoming a joke on there to sell or buy anything in ebays adult section even though you nmust have credit card on file as proof of age to access the so called ADULT SECTION on ebay...Try another auction site like Ebannedfor adult items,thats all that is sold there..At the risk of sounding like a spammer I won't hated to give out a website name and I guarantee you I am not affilliated in anyway whatsoever with the site other than the fact that I have a seller account there which I still haven't used yet,because it is so much more complicated to use than ebay.. But at least on there you actually know what it is you're buying there..Now if they could only make the site as user friendly as feebay,for those who don't know yet ,that's what ebay is called now "FEEBAY"..Anyway if I could figure out how to use ebanned I could sell practicly anything there..Of course not to anyone using paypal..LOL..

Anyway good luck to you shmucks at paypal..I now have a merchant account and it will be possibly be great once I ever figure out how to use it as well..Well I just realized some of this wound up sounding like a comment to support adult merchandsie on the internet..LOL..But that's mainly because paypal closed my account for selling what they decided was obscene and viloated their policy even though they had nothing at all to prove it..

Paypal & ebay both have become Un=American in my opinionand are so strict about what you and can't sell and what you can use paypal for,that they are both violating our freedom and rights as Americans,therefore ebay and pay pal are two of the most popular Un-American Companies I know of doing business in the America..Why would Americans want to continue supporting two companies that are basicly a form of communism in America?

Oh and don't think I'm only talking about porn or nudity folks..I'm talking about many many many perfectly legal and legitimate items that ebay and paypal has ruled out over the years and they keep ruling more things out all the time..Before long they will basicly policy themselves out of business..

\They have both lost billions of dollars due to their policies..Why do you think they advertise so much now and who do you think pays for the advertising..You do..The buyers and sellers pay for it..How is that possible?..Ok ebay just raised fees this year..so now it costs sellers more to sell on ebay ,which in turn causes seller to have to charge more for the items they sell.therefore costing you the buyer more to buy the same items they could buy last year and everything just keeps going up on ebay..Well goodness..poor ebay had to spend more money to try to hussle up some more business since they lost so many buyers and sellers due to their policies and paypals policies..


Posted by: OZZY ROKK at June 20, 2006 09:29 AM

PayPal sucks really. They are keeping money without justification. I'm really interested in how much they keep in total and what they are doing with. They are earning for sure interest and what's happen with the money they keep. PayPal are a bunch on fraudsters and cheaters. That's all about I can say. Wish that they are going to have to close the company. Thinking about to make them real problems, what a fun!

I hate them!

Posted by: AJ at June 24, 2006 05:35 AM

I noticed some people don't take PayPal. Now I know. I wish I would have Googled them sooner. I hate PayPal and eBay. I joined eBay 3 years ago and signed up for PayPal 6 months ago. I would buy something on eBay once in a while with PayPal. Two weeks ago I sold some stuff I had like a computer, software, antiques, and stereo equipment. Most people paid with PayPal and had no problems. Then last week I sold the rest of my stereo gear. The winners contacted me and said PayPal wouldn't take their payments so I checked my account and it said "access limited." It said it was limited becasuse of "suspicious activity." I hadn't noticed the email they had sent a couple days earlier.

I emailed them and asked why accepting PayPal payments for eBay purchases was considered suspicious since that was what it was for. Of course the gutless cowards won't give a real response. All you get is a canned email stating that they reviewed your case and need more information. I like how it says how they want to help and take care of it as soon as possible. What a joke.

I couldn't believe what they want in order to restore your account. The form won't even take half your information. When I tried to confirm my phone number I couldn't because mine is an extension and there is no way to enter one. When I entered my social security number it wouldn't verify it, so that means you have to fax a copy of your drivers license and original social security card. I don't know why they can't verify it, every one else can. They want a utility bill to confirm your address. I don't have one because utilities are included in my rent. They want contact information for my suppliers. I don't have any. This is personal stuff I was selling because I don't need it anymore. They want tracking numbers for all my shipments even though all my buyers recieved their items. They want a credit check so they can decide if I get my own money back. I have never seen such stupidity. The only things they didn't ask for were fingerprints and a cavity search.

Now what? Am I going to be out the $1200 in my account because I don't have a utility bill or because their form won't take my phone number? How many hours am I going to have to spend on the phone arguing with their useless customer service idiots? How many times am I going to have to run down to copy and fax stuff? I wonder if I will ever get my money back. I have a 100% positive feed back rating on eBay and a perfect record with PayPal and they treat me this way, it's unbelieveable.

I can't believe they say that they want to help. If they did, they wouldn't resort to using canned emails, burying information, and hiding their phone number. Their website is worse than eBay's. Half the time the damn thing times out on you. The other half of the time, you try to go back a page and you have to make it reload.

The government ought to shut them down using the RICO organized crime statute. I can't understand how they are allowed to operate this way. How can they arbitrarily take your money for no reason? It is like their company is designed for the purpose of ripping off unsuspecting consumers. There are crack dealers in the hood with more ethics.

I don't understand why they freeze your account for merely using it. That would be like the bank freezing your checking account for writting a check and then telling you they'll take 6 months to decide if they're going to keep it and if they do you can't appeal. After they froze mine, I decided to check on the internet and see what I could find out. I thought "What would be a good search term, I'll try PayPay sucks." I got like millions of hits. That really says alot about this outfit. I'm going to see who I need to contact to lodge a complaint with, but I live in a small pro business state so the officials here could probably care less. I am going to warn every one I can about PayPal. I can't understand why this isn't a bigger story. The only place I see it covered is on the internet. The news people must be busy rigging exploding pickups and covering cat in the tree stories. Maybe some day this story will break big enough to get somebody's attention.

I will never use eBay or PayPal again. If I would have used somebody else this time I would have my money in my pocket instead of PayPal's. I'll take my stuff and toss it in the dumpster before I give these bastards another dime. I hate them. I'm just hoping these clowns really piss off a postal worker someday.

Posted by: Michael Palombo at June 27, 2006 01:36 PM

I just wanted to let you know that your website has made it to the UK ebay community Q&A forum boards. We are all listening to your recordings now :-)

Posted by: Abby Parker at July 15, 2006 01:02 PM

Now that I am already screwed I decide to search. My account was limited because of suspicious activity, I used it. Then I provided ALL the info they asked for and they emailed me and said that my account was linked to another paypal account that was also limited. I have no other account. Turns out somebody with the same last name that lives in a different state is who they are talking about. Paypal gave me this persons email so I emailed them and they can't fix thier account either. Paypal has debited her account $848.72 as of today and she had to close her bank account linked to the paypal account. Now I have $over $5000.00 in my account and can't touch it. What do I do? I have given them everythign and now the only response I get is my account is linked to another paypal account and it has to be fixed before my account can be fixed. How do I fix an account that doesnt blong to me? Do I just lose over $5000.00 because paypal decides to keep it. They made a mistake and let me log into my account for 3 hours one day so I went in and told it to withdraw all the money to my bank account, well within an hour the transaction was declined and my account limited again. I am still waiting for something Most of the time I dont get an answer to my email and then when I do get a response they tell me to fix the account that doesnt belong to me. So what the heck do I do now? I am so lost and am a single mother. I need that money. If anybody can please help me email and let me know what I can do. Please chelle888@cox.net I NEED HELP.

Posted by: Michelle at July 17, 2006 04:28 PM

State by state recording law varies, but most states you only need one party to consent for recording (namely yourself).

This website: http://www.rcfp.org/taping/ has information on phone taping law.

Posted by: Isaac at July 30, 2006 09:37 AM

I got my Paypal account closed just because I have the same name as one of the blacklisted people on the "terrorists and non-grata persons for the US Government". The thing is that this list is composed of more than 50,000 foreign names. So a match s pretty easy to find if you happen to have an arabic or spanish name...

Posted by: MH at July 30, 2006 09:54 AM

the fuckers @ pp have screwed me over and say i have a biz account but i dont and i sill in highschool, im 17 and i use paypaly very rarly for ebay purcheses long story short i havent use accessed my paypal account for at least 1 and a half YEARS and they closed my account and i LOST $415 and change that was just left im my paypal accont and they say they dont
have any record of my account in there system guestions comments quieries jnc8651 (at) gmail dot com

Posted by: jaime at July 31, 2006 12:28 AM

I received a partial delivery from a seller with a promise for a delivery of the remaining items after 1.5 months after paying almost 1500.00 dollars for a kit which was noted as 10-15 day delivery. After many more broken promises from the seller I generated a claim on paypal against the seller for NON-RECEIPT. Paypal closed the claim in the seller's favor without any investigation because they said I should have registered the claim as "NOT DELIVERED AS ADVERTISED". The 45 day limit had passed and only one claim could be registered against a specific transaction so paypal screwed me over. Paypals protection policy is a joke.

Posted by: John Trautt at August 17, 2006 12:30 PM

Paypal just fucked me over and cute me off for "mature content" just like they did with the dear author of this page. Much like Marc Perkel, I am not going to take discrimination lying down. This practice is fucking absurd. There are tons of sites accepting Paypal that arguably feature adult content in some form. These sites, like mine, are conducting business at the risk of having someone at Payfuck, waking up cranky one day and deciding to click the "mature content" check box for their site; and, bingo, their payment processing is down without warning. What if a site had paid 10,000 dollars for a big ad that day?

I want to know who manages the site review department?
I want to know if there is a particular religion or ideology guiding which sites, and what exact type of content, is being shut down?
I want to know where the management is from?

I believe in free speech and so do my dear "customers." Yes, there is some mature content on my along with a lot of other content, - and, there is ‚Äúmature content‚ÄĚ on hundreds of sites that aren't having their account frozen. Not only ‚Äúmature content‚ÄĚ sites that are accepting Paypal, but, Paypal is conducting business with money scheme sites and a whole grab bag of operations that have much more unethical and sinister intentions relating to their product and screwing over the customer. I think it reflects a bit worse on your company that you work with thieves, than if you worked with a site that offered up a friendly pair of big tits here and there.

I just was looking at a site that charges a visitor 180 dollars - through Paypal, and, promises you 9 thousand dollars back.

It gives me the impression that there is some simpleminded, fundamentalism urging on the philosophy and business practices of this company. They cancel, without warning or discussion, sites that including some women in bathing suits (or whatever), and aren't bothered by websites trying to fuck people over and con them out of money.

Sounds a little small minded.
What religion are the Paypal managers and decision makers?
Who’s the retard behind these merchant account closures? You fucking retard? What content have you brought to the world to improve it and to enrich life? You fuck.

I don't fucking rip people off.
I don't fucking con people and fuck them over.
I don't trick them, or harm their business.
I don't cause them to incur fines, and bank penalties.
I don't close their accounts without warning and then refuse to let them know why, nor consider anything they have to say in their own defense.

These things I list. You, Paypal payfuck - you do this. You, Paypal, FUCK YOUR CUSTOMERS OVER ‚Äď me, us - the merchants.

So, payfuck, who has the distasteful content? The distasteful service?
A site like mine that deals honestly, with good intentions, and without a single dispute or complaint throughout its entire history? Or you payfuck?

Is your content and service not the merchant to beware? The site which is uncouth, distasteful, ill-advised, bad for business, not a good image, etc. etc. etc.

Beware you fucking bastards
What you did was wrong
What you did to all these people speaking on this page, that gave you business, and trusted you, and took a chance to give you a chance, was wrong. You fucked people over!

There is something rotten in your foundation.
There is a bias behind this discrimination.

I'm going to find what it is.
I'm going to find who.

I'm going to wreck your house Paypal.

I think you just now broke the last straw

Great page Marc Perkel
Thanks for making it
Great recording too - may I borrow it for mass distribution purposes?


Posted by: drunken editor at August 21, 2006 04:37 AM

When I was setting up my business I decided to get a PayPal account. I had set up two checking accounts, one for deposits and one for expenditures. The idea was to keep very little money in the depository account, just enough to cover an occasional refund. PayPal asked for a credit card so I gave them the number of my bank debit card- the one I was going to use for business. It asked for the account in which to make deposits, so I gave it to them.

The next time I tried to purchase something on the Internet, I tried to buy it directly with my personal credit card, not through PayPal. But since PayPal was an option it wouldn't let me.

BEFORE I signed up with PayPal, I could use my own credit card in a sellers PayPal cart, and I didn't need to have a PayPal account.

AFTER I signed up with PayPal, if a seller used a PayPal cart, I wasn't allowed to NOT use my PayPal account for the transaction.

PayPal hijacked the transaction and tried to force me to use the business card on file with them. It wanted to take the funds from the account they had on record, which was my depository account. This was the account I deliberately tried to keep very little money in, so it wouldn't cover the purchase.

No matter what I tried, I couldn't make a purchase without using my PayPal account. I got so mad at having my choices taken away from me that I cancelled my PayPal account immediately. Then I made my purchase the way I wanted to.

I'm now in business on my own site, not using Ebay and thought it hurts me some financially, I value my freedom too much to give it up.

Posted by: Tigerflag at August 21, 2006 01:46 PM

Paypal froze my account with over $670 because my mother had a negative balance on her account.

They assumed both accounts are related because I used the same address, phone number and logged in from the same ip address.

I moved out of my mother's house about 8 months ago and when I visited I used the internet to manage my account.

If you are going through a similar situation and beat them, or sued them and won...let me know HOW

Posted by: Chris at August 30, 2006 11:10 AM

I was thinking of adding PayPal to my Ebay auctions.

I am so glad that I read this 1st!!

That message was so scary to hear. To know that information will stop me from ever using their service.

Thanks for taking the time to post this.

Posted by: Michelle at September 1, 2006 07:13 PM

We too got screwed by the ol paypal scam.. buyer bids up an ebay item, 14 times & way higher then it should normally sell for, in order to win it. Tells me after the win & his payment, (and after he confirmed I shipped it), BUT before he receives it (he demanded tracking#), that he doesnt want it anymore...um ok??.. 1 day after receiving it, he files a dispute, claiming item asnt what he wanted..umm ok 14 bids & a payment must mean what Mr. Perez?. Paypal gives him 10 days to ship item back, he sends a 3lb. box of gravel, to my old address (no longer reside there, told him that, gave him correct address, which BTW was the one that the item originally shipped from) as his return. Paypal accepts his box tracking # as a valid return of this item & refunds him our several hundred dollars & like you Chris, placing our account in the negative.
I attempted to fight with paypal, showed them Mr. Rene Perez history of scams & legal judgements against him in florida district court, including tax evasion, but to no avail. I will never use paypal again & am trying to spread the word about Mr. Perez, owner of Tropical Art Glass Inc. Hialeah, Florida (305-556-7443) is a complete paypal scam artist and has caused similar problems to dozens others out there..& why not, Paypal lets him!

Posted by: NoJustice at September 5, 2006 12:29 AM

Hi I live in Taiwan. I have no seller protection. To me , seller protection is just BS that makes you feel safe . YOU are NOT!
Paypal froze my account because I am receiving too much money. They take away my money, take away money from people who I have purchased from, and is still keeping my money for no reason. My heart is with you all. Fight on!

Posted by: Edward at September 29, 2006 02:07 AM

I totally agree with you. I'm having troubles with Paypal myself and I hate them. The terrorists should of exploded their main office instead of world trade center.

Posted by: BB at October 6, 2006 12:19 AM

PayPal canceled our account due to our non-sexual website that promotes nudist resorts. Another nudist wesite has a petition on it to fight PayPal. I would give the links but I don't want to pay $500 for posting commercial links. Commercial websites are not the problem. PayPal is.

Posted by: Corky at November 25, 2006 01:28 PM

CORPORATIONS have destroyed the very thread of our constitution, liberty and freedom. I'm probably preaching to the choir here but it is high time to take back our country. They control our goverment bodies, reinterpret laws, bully employees and have been the ones responsible for opening the doors to illegal immigrants, terrorists and the crippling of our economic being. I believe the only way to take back our freedom will not be in the court of law...they own the courts, judges, politicians, etc. The only thing that will ever change this is a civil war. People against the government and corporations. Personally I would love to see the corporate executives lined up for execution. They deserve it. They use there power to control peoples lives and keep them in a financial prison. When people have families to support they are in a corner and will bend over as many times possible for there family. I do not believe in the death of innocent men, women and children but I have to believe that in a way Timothy McVeigh may have touched on something. Right now there is nothing out there to keep corporations or government in line. There are no laws protection the American citizens...oh, they may be on the books but how many middle class US citizens with families hads the time and resources to sue a corporation or the government. And I think everyone knows that it is mute anyways because if someone were to win it would open up flood gates beyond the capacity of what any institution could even fathom to think. We spend money freeing other countries from there governmen but the truth is that we are prisoners of ours. Freedom of speech is only free if the courts and government (same thing) like what you have to say. That is not freedom of speech, that is selective freedom for political agenda's. It isn't about Republican or Democrat, it isn't about Bush, Clinton or whoever. It's about the entire system. A system so obese, ambiguous and abstract that is impervious to legal or financial challenge. Agression seems to be the only alternative. The shields are to big and strong to get through, they have to be taken down. People that control our lives through positions of power are cowards and when there shields are down (ie; security, military, etc) they are vulnerable beyond what the average person would be. The average person is this country yet the average person is nothing but a disposable pawn for there better good. I find it hard to believe that corporate violence hasn't been a daily event(s). I guess us Americans are must idiodic optimists with strong backbones. It's time we all take back our country; our constitution rights without reinterpretation, our economic security (not the governments spin), our freedom of music (not the record company corporation) are legal rights (not the judges, DA's and attorney's) and foremost to hold each and everyone accountable for there actions. We need a revamped Union throughout the entire country. A union to protect the people and not the government and corporations.

eBay and PayPal fall right into this category. They lure us into using there services as an alternate form of income. Many people have bought into this but when there accounts are suspended or domino for whatever reason. There is no recourse but to play the wait game and hope for a good outcome. People can NOT wait. Companies do not wait, banks do not wait, creditors do not wait, hungry mouths do not wait. Fight fraud with fraud. That's the vicious circle and the corporations want to shed tears like they are victims...they are the instigators, the perpetrators and the spawn of evil in our once great society. They can do what they want and just because it says so in a users-agreement it makes everything 100% right to them. Maybe it's time to start selling manure and ???? ...hell, give it away. We all know it is coming... for the day that the masses are pushed beyond there means and bypass email or phone support and take matters into there own hands, the old wild west way. Unfortunately the only way that wars are won is through agression. So be it...let it be said, let it be done.

Posted by: dogphucker at December 17, 2006 01:31 PM

Posted by: Edward at September 29, 2006 02:07 AM
I totally agree with you. I'm having troubles with Paypal myself and I hate them. The terrorists should of exploded their main office instead of world trade center.

Hopefully the FBI investigated you for the bombs that went off in Cali.

I know the girl that you talked to Mr. Marc Perkel. I love people like you who call in with your law bullshit, we get a kick out of people like you, who are helpless and can't do shit! :) I love paypal! Go Paypal!! WOOOooo

I would love to see you get your 500 per link.. thats a joke you don't have the law that paypal has! lol ur poor!

Posted by: PayPal ResAgent at December 21, 2006 11:22 PM

My trouble is exactly like Marks Mp3 conversation.
But the reason for closing my account was never stated. $10,000 was put into my account the prior month. I also had zero complaints against me. My account had $600 in it. I did refund my last transaction of $597. And told paypal to fuck-off.
They only had $3 to hold. Piece of shit business ethics run Pisspal.

Posted by: Selvol at December 23, 2006 01:24 PM

They just got me good and I don't know how you buyers aren't getting your money back unless paypal lies to both sides and just keeps the money. I ran a business through paypal and when I ran my first $20,000 in one month through paypal they shut me down for a couple days due to suspicious activity, but then opened it right back up. Well I did $250,000 in business in 4 months. $200,000 of that came from one buyer with several orders. After all these orders, the guy got into some money problems and decided to do chargebacks with his credit card companies that he paid me with through paypal. Paypal instantly took my money and subtracted my account all the way down to -$54,000. They called me and said they wanted to help me fight against the card companies but wanted to know if I had the funds to bring my account back to even. I told them no. They instantly got rude and said I need to give them info. I went in to each chargeback and entered tracking numbers showing that all items were delivered to the customer. They sent me an email the following day saying that they decided with the buyer. I called them up immediately and asked how when they had the tracking and seen that they were delivered. They said they have to side with the buyer until it would go to court. The paypal worker I talked to even told me that they looked at the guys past and how many times he had done this and told me I need to turn him into the FBI, but they still had to side with him for policy reasons. Then they go on to tell me that they give 3 mos. to get the balance taken care of and then send it to collection agency and if I don't pay it within 90 days then, they file criminal charges. SO no they took my money once and are telling me I have to give it to them again or I am going to prison. I guess I am screwed, if anybody has any ideas on something I could do here shoot me an email. I don't even have a way to accept payments online anymore that sells good enough, I do have a merchants account, but everybody wants to pay with paypal anymore. Please help if you have info send me helpful info at OSCSportscards@yahoo.com

Posted by: Wayne at December 23, 2006 08:10 PM

paypal has taken A hold of my money for 180 days ( 6 months ) because a completely seperate account that wasnt connected to me whatsoever owes them money and they feel like they have the right to hold my money because I'm somehow connected to them , but get this , they WONT tell me how i am connected, but they wont give up my money until the other account pays they're dues !!!! HOW THE HELL AM I GONNA DO THAT !!! I DONT KNOW WHO OR HOW I AM CONNECTED!!! but they will tell me they are gonna hold my money for 180 days..... F**k YOU PAYPAL - JULIE

Posted by: julie at February 20, 2007 09:49 PM

When are "we" going to ban togther and see this stuff through? PayPal has gone too far. After shuting down 4 accounts all total (2 over 6 years old with NO complaints), they say now due to my credit report - YET...I have a clean report?? I'm young, so I don't have a lot of credit, but what I do have is excellent??? Go figure. I reminded them of this, sent a copy of my report to them and still they say "no go - we're freezing the account, can't get your commissions in, and can't do business with us" (in short)

Oh..and are you guys aware that IF you use a credit card to purchase from someone else that has a PP account that they STILL refuse to allow payment??

I have had two accounts compromised at two different times...and PP is the ONLY business with the information on these two particular accounts. Who has my social security numbers and credit card numbers?

How can they refuse my credit card to pay to someone else when the cards are good?

I find it very hard to believe this has gone this far without someone doing something, seeking further legal help, why haven't our laws protected us in the US? Ok, they aren't a bank, but what gives them the right to shut folks down that make a living online (like me) for not justifiable reason whatsoever???

BTW - initially, bad info was on my creidt that didn't belong there, so I got that taken off, and a note that it was incorrect info put into file, yet they still won't budge and say it is based on my credit report.

HOW can a credit report keep me from accepting and paying funds that I already OWN...I never asked for a loan or credit or anything...how can they collect this info (they shut you down regardless anyway) and in the NEW RULLES it states you have NO APPEAL RIGHTS WHATSOEVER.

Folks, this really needs to stop - it is an American tragedy that this company can put law abiding, good risk people out of business within 24 hours with NOTHING to justify it.

In my case, there were no charge backs or complaints (that weren't refunded within 24 hours).

I just wish SOMEONE would give me an explanation WHY and HOW this benefits PP?? to shut good accounts down? Just doen'st make sense to me - PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE?

I am in an online area (not even eBay) that almost everything is done via PayPal. All scripts require it and affiliate commissions programs...

Again, someone, can you help me here?


Posted by: john at February 23, 2007 11:09 AM

I also have had it out with Paypal. I sell items on Ebay and after 3 months got this charge back from Paypal. Seems the only excuse was that the buyer had an unauthorized credit card.. after 3 months????? So I got the sale price taken out of the account plus their $10 charge. Knowing I had sold some items some time back for a couple hundred dollars I got rid of the account. Their fine print is very very fine and since then have read it and the bottom line is there is NO SELLER PROTECTION or BUYER PROTECTION, you are screwed. Ebay isn't any better either. The person that used the frauded card keeps on buying on Ebay and I turned the whole file into them. They do not care. Just don't say Mammy when selling antique items and now the work Kewpie is a tradmark infringement. What's next? Think it's back to the classifed ads for selling. I told Paypal cash doesn't bounce!! Screw them.


Posted by: Ginger at July 6, 2007 09:55 AM

Paypal takes big money out of everyones pockets.

They stole 12 Dollars from a full refund by giving very unfair exchange rates, which they do every transaction.

Paypal is making millions on everyone who buys things overseas. If I buy direct from my credit card I get the direct exchange rate.

Eg. 113 US to Euro Exchange should of been 83 Euro paypal 85
10 pound to Euro should of been 14,00 Paypal 15,00 Euro.

Were all getting ripped off!

Posted by: Jay at August 4, 2007 12:28 AM
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