August 17, 2004
Off to court with PayPal today
Well - today is the day I go to cmall claims court against PayPal. It's at 1:00 in Santa Clara County. It should be interesting. My first experience in California small claims court.
This incident is about PayPal cutting me off and siezing my money because they didn't like the content of my web site. Since then I have got my money back - but I'm suing them for additional damages.
If you have been following this - I made a Recording of the conversation I had on the phone with PayPal. If you don't want to listed to the whole 25 minutes - here a 2 minute exerpt of the conversation.
The exerpt is very good. It explains in PayPal's own words why the user agreement with them says and how they actually enforce it. Something that every PayPal user should know. I don't see where PayPal sould have a problem with this because isn't it better for everyone if people really understands what the agreement means? I sure think so!
Posted by marc at August 17, 2004 09:55 AM
Listened to the whole phone call. Good job with that!!! Good luck on your small claims court case
I think you're going to have a hard time convincing the judge that PayPal closed your account without reasonable cause (you still have a link to PayPal on the pages they closed your account for, by the way) - but best of luck anyway.
I love this site.
Absolutely love it.
Anyways, rip em a new one for me.
Who doesn't love this site? and yes shove a bunch of coals down paypals pants. :)
I listened to the whole conversation as well. I couldn't stop laughing. Good luck and I feel you are absolutely right. Funny how one sided the 180 day hold period is. Very common in business but is it right? "Say....I'd like those new shoes and I'll pay you in a 180 days. You know... just to be sure i really like them. Gotta protect my personal overhead ya know."
This court battle will show us if paypal can get away with things like this
I have a lot of respect for somebody that fights like a bulldog for their rights. This is indeed a win-win situation for you...you've already shown Pay Pal that they can't push people around without the chance that somebody will push back.
I lived in Nebraska, PayPal's call center is located there. State Of Nebraska state law allows you to record a conversation as long as one party knows its being recorded.
Just as a note: I also filed a small claim against PayPal, for $3,000 in Ohio, in earley June last year (2003). PayPal's attorney refused to try the case there and the Judge therefore moved it to Municipal Court, where you REALLY NEED an attorney. To make a LONG story short, I did it on my own anyway and after numerous other delays PayPal has induced using legal technicalities and tricks (most of them legal to do); the case has been certified to Ohio Common Pleas Court where three attorneys have taken on the case and it is now for $1,700,000. Yes, $1.7 million as of now (which does NOT include Fraud, RICO, nor Securities laws violations, which would make the amount significantly higher.)
The following was posted on eBay's discussion board - PayPal dissusion, on Oct 21, 2004:
If you are a PayPal user in Ohio or Oregon, you may be able to claim up to three times the damages suffered because of PayPal’s unlawful activities that were in violation of state and/or federal law.
Tomorrow, October 22, 2004, a court ordered session is to take place in Jefferson, Ohio for mediation and possible settlement of several various lawsuits which have been consolidated into case “in re: Kent S Clark vs Paypal, Inc, et al. Case Number 04 CV 306.” The case is a consolidation of various cases filed by Plaintiff.
In preceding cases consolidated therein, it has been ruled by the presiding Judge that PayPal’s actions were “unconscionable” under Ohio Revised Code. Plaintiff’s attorneys have prepared, and will file additional Pleadings alleging violations of fraud, and violations of the Ohio Racketeering statutes, if no settlement agreement is reached at that hearing. If a settlement is reached, a portion of the settlement will be set aside to compensate residents of the States of Ohio and Oregon. The settlement funds so set-aside will be used to compensate residents of those states, for verified violations by PayPal of said statutes. Verification of the alleged violations will NOT be determined by PayPal, its attorneys, employees or agents.
ONLY individual residents of those states will be eligible for applying for the compensation. The compensation will be an amount up to three times the statutorily defined damages under the relevant statute, which is the same as if the individual had filed suit in court, and prevailed in the suit. Those individuals who have already filed a complaint with the Attorney General of the state of Ohio need not take any additional action to be included. Residents of the state of Oregon will be covered if they have also previously filed a complaint with an appropriate state governmental office.
Residents of Ohio and Oregon who have NOT filed a complaint with the appropriate state office may do so until November 30, 2004, and still be included. (Ohio residents need to file a complaint with the Ohio Attorney General’s office which may be done either online, or by mail. Oregon residents should contact the State Attorney General to determine the proper method of filing the complaint.)
NO PAYMENT TO ANY STATE AGENCY, OFFICE, ORGANIZATION, OR INDIVIDUAL IS REQUIRED TO FILE A COMPLAINT TO BE INCLUDED IN THE SETTLEMENT FUND DISBURSEMENT.
THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT SUFFICIENT FUNDS WILL BE AVAILABLE TO PROVIDE THE ANTICIPATED COMPENSATION FOR ANY VIOLATIONS OF PAYPAL USER’S DAMAGES.
THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT A SETTLEMENT WILL BE REACHED THAT PROVIDES ANY FUNDS TO THE COMPENSATION FUND.
NO ONE WHO HAS NOT FILED A COMPLAINT WITH THE APPROPRIATE STATE AGENCY/OFFICE WILL BE ELIGIBLE FOR THE COMPENSATION.
DO NOT EMAIL THE PERSON POSTING THIS MESSAGE WITH THE ALLEGED VIOLATIONS. NO REPLY MAY BE PROVIDED. (That is not to say it won’t be.) TO ASSURE INCLUSION IF YOU ARE IN THE STATE OF OREGON, YOU MAY EMAIL NOTIFICATION ONLY, THAT A COMPLAINT HAS BEEN FILED WITH THE STATE OF OREGON.
Kent S Clark
How did your case with Pay Pal go? They have closed both my personal and business account over chargebacks (that were not chargebacks by the way). I provided all documentation. Problem: They are holding $26,000.00 of mine between the two accounts. Say they can hold it for 180 days. There are no open issues. What options do I have?