Marc Perkel Rantz

when is it proper to smear a veteran? where's the proof that kerry faked his wounds, other than that group saying that he did? where's the proof about mccain? are we that stupid and gullible and lazy as a people that we just believe what 'our' side says and dismiss everything else? if we don't agree with it or don't believe it, then it must be a lie. sadly, that is how most americans think..

I can't stand the probably effective Swift Boat misinformation (at least more blatantly misinforming than the regular campaign ads) ad. But, I can't ignore this bit of logic, either: Decorated Combat Veteran does not equal infallible or trustworthy. Though arguably its still better than Draft Dodger or AWOL for non-combat service.

and thus, everytime i see a license plate with a purple heart on it, or meet someone with medals, do i question them? do i ask for proof that they deserved those medals? do i need to return my medals?

No, but you do need to care about it if this guy will try to change your life or other peoples. I heard this morning a guy saying "its the first admendment to run these ad's" Its also first admendment to say fuck heros, and thats what the add does.

if that's the case, i'm loobing up for another four years...

Josh, you are such phony. About 15 years ago there was a student at the Chicago Art Institute who put out his "art work" for all to come and see. It was the American flag layed across the floor. You could walk over the flag to get to a guest book to sign your name. That was art to a bunch of twirp liberal kids. Heroes stood there crying. And little bastard liberal kids said it was their 1st Amendment right to display the art.
That was saying FUCK HEROES. These ads are the subjective opinions of guys who were there.

How about when your hero said he threw his medals over the White House fence in protest, only to admit later that they were not his medals, but the medals from another soldier ... your lying hero kept his. You couldn't give two shits about the heroes of this country.

Charlie, you asked ...

when is it proper to smear a veteran? where's the proof that kerry faked his wounds, other than that group saying that he did? where's the proof about mccain?

It is proper to smear a veteran whenever you wish to in a free society, just as John Kerry smeared his fellow veterans when he was protesting along side Jane Fonda. Where is the proof that Kerry faked his wounds, here is a better question, where are Kerry's wounds. Bob Dole has wounds, he lost use of one of his arms. John McCain has wounds, the man cannot raise either arm above his head. He cannot comb his own hair.

There is a book titles STASI, and in it there is a chapter called THE MECHANIC. You should read that book. Werner was the mechanic. He tells me of being hung by his arms chest deep in ice water for hours at a time while being held prisoner for many years. Kerry has nothing on these guys.

The reason that John Kerry is getting so much greif over this purple heart thing is because he is using it as a campaign tool.

Just as there are great heros from WWI and WWII, there are also people who try to pretend that they were great heros. A few individuals came out and said that John Kerry is a great war hero while the other 200 who served with him disagree, who are you going to trust? I am not going to trust any of them. I have read books and studied up on the so-called injuries that John Kerry got in order to get those purple hearts and NONE of them seem to be something that should merit a purple heart.

Just in case you do not know this Swift Boat drivers never are to leave the ship... so what was he doing off the ship?

Makes you wonder doesnt it.

Jes, can you please step on a boat and get on the edge and I will set off a mine, maybe then you know what {--} this size of metal can do to you. No matter how big the wounds are they still hurt. Jes none of those 200 actually met and served with john kerry, your talking about the so called veterns in the swiftboat for analpleasure ad's. It also doesn't matter what they say the military record states what john kerry has. I could say i was in veitnam and john
kerry wore a pink elephant suit and its as
credible as what these guys are trying to push.

"Just in case you do not know this Swift Boat drivers never are to leave the ship... so what was he doing off the ship?" If that was true then the bush campiagn would be pushing that.

"It is proper to smear a veteran whenever you wish to in a free society, just as John Kerry smeared his fellow veterans when he was protesting along side Jane Fonda. Where is the proof that Kerry faked his wounds, here is a better question, where are Kerry's wounds. Bob Dole has wounds, he lost use of one of his arms. John McCain has wounds, the man cannot raise either arm above his head. He cannot comb his own hair.

Yeah and thats the reason no democratic IS SMEARING THEM because kerry holds respect for all people in veitnam, maybe not the leaders in the white house at the time making decisions. Tell me tom did you go to veitnam? Do you have a first hand experience at what veitnam was like? Because if you don't you wouldn't know why kerry threw his RIBBONS at the white house. Niether do I but you have no reason to be calling him a down right traiter for doing that when you, yourself has no clue.

Josh, 254 swift boat veterans are accussing of being, in effect, a liar. Now we have to ask how many swift boat veteran are there. Could Kery in fact be a driver of a swift boat and never come in contact with any of these 254? I do not claim to know the answer. But, here are two things that we now know for sure, as Kerry has confirmed them.

Kerry told of throwing his medals over the White House fence in protest of the war. Later, he changed that to say that when he told a dying Vietnam veteran that he was intending to do this the dying veteran said, "here, throw mine too." Kerry then threw the medals of the dying veteran and kept his own. That was a lie.

For 20 years Kerry claimed that on Christmas Eve 1968 he was on an illegal mission in Cambodia. His campaign then quietly withdrew the claim. Again, he lied.

This is the same pattern that the last President had. They lie so much that nobody knows what the truth is anymore (with the exception of me). These are people who lie, just to lie.

Josh, you said ... "Tom, do you have a first hand experience at what veitnam was like? Because if you don't you wouldn't know why kerry threw his RIBBONS at the white house."

He didn't throw his RIBBONS at the White House. You are arguing a point that he already admitted was a lie. But you should receive a ribbon for keeping the lie alive.

I will not regress to lying, but anybody can do.

ok, let's shift focus to bush. is he a hero? what about his service during nam? why don't we talk about THAT? personally, i don't think it's EVER right to smear a veteran, even to exercise my first amendment. in my opinion, it is never right to smear anyone who's been in combat. i've been there, so i know what it's like. so truth, jes, you guys think it' ok to smear veterans, as long as they are democrats? do you think it was right smear mccain? or that other guy who left his legs and an arm over there? is it right to smear the men and women who risk their lives for this country? so, a few years from now, someone who fought in iraq decides to run for office somewhere. would you suppport smearing that person? and folks, i don't know why this is such an issue. what about the candidates views on health care? the economy? why are we SOOOOOOOO focused on this, or the fact the bush was awol, or that bush send many to their death, or that kerry is rick, or that kerry excercised his first amendment and protested? are you so shallow as to say 'fuck the real issues, gossip is better'?

oh yeah, and i think the debate is not whether or not kerry deserves those medals but, where was bush during his service? all kinds of folks are coming out saying good or bad about kerry. no one has yet to come out and say he was there with bush, unless they come out and say that he was with bush in mexico snorting coke and doing hookers...

Kerry's campaign now says it is possible the first Purple Heart was awarded for an unintentional self-inflicted wound.

Kerry received his purple heart 12/2/68 and in his own journal, nine days later, he writes about himself and his crew, "we haven't been shot at yet."

Charlie, you may be right that it does not matter. The military bullshit and all. Who brought up Kerry's war record anyway? Oh! It was Kerry. Where is it written that a President need have served in the military. It might not mean anything that GWB served in some Air National Guard. Hell, the best President in the last 100 years missed the Vietnam War by going to Oxford. And nobody said squat when he went into Kosovo to take out Melosevic.

Charlie is right, let's stick to real issues. The best Presidents have been former Govenors, as it is an executive office. Not Senators, which is a legislative office. Of all the executives in the corporate world, most have not worked in the plant that they are executives of. I will pick the five most important issues to me. I will then look at each candidate to see where he stands on my important issues. The one who I closest agree with will get my vote. That is how you should do it. Let me tell you, no 16 year old farm boy is going to pick my issue.

The rest of this is just sport discussion. Now, on with the discussion.

Dem presidential hopeful John Kerry personally phoned anti-Kerry swift boat vets, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

Kerry reached out to Robert "Friar Tuck" Brant Cdr., USN (RET) Sunday night, just hours after former Sen. Bob Dole publicly challenged Kerry to apologize to veterans.

Brant was skipper of the #96 and # 36 boat and spent time with Kerry in An Thoi. Kerry and Brant slept in the same quarters, and Brant used to put Kerry back to bed at night when Kerry was sleepwalking.

Brant received a call from Kerry at his home in Virginia while he was watching the Olympics on TV.

The call lasted 10 minutes, sources tell DRUDGE.

KERRY: "Why are all these swift boat guys opposed to me?"

BRANT: "You should know what you said when you came back, the impact it had on the young sailors and how it was disrespectful of our guys that were killed over there.

[Brant had two men killed in battle.]

KERRY: "When we dedicated swift boat one in '92, I said to all the swift guys that I wasn't talking about the swifties, I was talking about all the rest of the veterans."

Kerry then asked if he could meet Brant ["You were one of the best"] -- man to man -- face to face.

Brant declined the invite, explaining that Kerry was obviously not prepared to correct the record on exactly what happened during Vietnam and what happened when Kerry came back.

HERE IS THE DISPICABLE PART OF THIS (IF TRUE), KERRY WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT HIS GUYS, JUST ALL OF THE OTHER GUYS. WHAT KIND OF CRAP IS THAT?

well said, tom, well said.

by the way, i'm thinking of starting my own site, like marc's, where people can put int their two cents, via paypal... no seriously, i own several domain names, and i'm thinking of starting another one of these sites, but for intolektchuhole phokes. what do you think? you in tom? would love to have you contribute...

WWW.CHARLIEANDTOMSHOW.COM (you get top billing).

I hate RAH RAH sites like the Free Republic. They let you post if you totally agree, somewhat agree, or your view is SOOOO liberally subjective that you don't have a chance against the whole team. If you are correctly to the right of them, or correctly to the left of them, they shut you off. I like people being able to say what they want. The posters will figure out who and what to read and respond to. I am thinking more of an internet streamlined voice program that people can tune into and listen to real open minded two sided debate, and call in.

Chance your dreams, and do whatever you want, as long as it does not hurt others ... that is what I tell my boys.

E-mail me at (tomocius@earthlink.net) if you want to talk off site. The people who trully know how to walk in the middle need to wake the wings up. But, EVERY American needs to wake up about their country.

"the DRUDGE REPORT has learned"
If your moderate you shouldn't be basing your opinions off of a conservative site.

Wrong again, Josh. If you are a moderate you have to have an open mind. You have to be able to take in a lot of different ideas. You have to be able to sift through it. You have to figure out who has a track record for breaking news, and who is a crackpot that spews nothing of fact.

Be reminded, (you were only 10 at the time) that Drudge talked about an intern in the White House who may have had sex with the President, ten months before we all knew it to be true. He wrote about the blue dress six months before Monica admitted that the dress existed. Marc Perkel has NEVER broken a story. You get news from news sources, and you converse about that news on blogs. Not the other way. Drudge has broken more news than the New York Times.

President Bush NEVER claimed to be a war hero Charlie.

This argument is pointless. Why does John Kerry try to run on his stuid purple hearts when he admitted to throwing such medals over a fence in protest? Because he is stupid, that is why!

Im done with this BLOG.

good, jes, and i think we're done with you. like i told tom (aka, the truth), if you want to be taken seriously, stop the name calling. yeah, i know, i name called also, but one should also not drink when online(me, lol). and btw jes, where did i say that bush claimed to be a ware hero? i don't recalling saying that. i don't support kerry OR bush. and, if kerry is so stupid, yet he's more popular than you and a lot richer.

""the DRUDGE REPORT has learned"
If your moderate you shouldn't be basing your opinions off of a conservative site."

Tom again you can't read if you were a moderate you would try to find a counter to that article, like going to the smudgereport.com

some reading for ya'll:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/24/politics/campaign/24watch.html

Josh, a moderate, conservative, or a liberal should seek the facts no matter where they are. Matt Drudge broke the Monica Lewinsky story 12 months before the media picked up on it. And the blue dress six months before the media. The thruth is the truth no matter where you find it.

Is the Smudgereport the story about the blue dress. Josh, tell me one story that the smudgereport broke?

smudgereport, blue dress, dry cleaning, stain free, color bleach...

New york to protest :-D, oh how I wish tho. Tom, I never said they broke any stories, and by saying what the drugereport says is true then thats your opinion. The druge report has not proven most of there stuff so I blow it off, like most of the stuff on this blog. Fox news 'breaks' alot of stories but that doesn't mean that they are always true and always have no spin, that goes for most news stations. Why must you keep on bringing up clinton? did he really cause you that much harm? do you not miss the days of peace and prosperity? Do you thirst for war and poverty?

Well Josh, nobody is always true. So where do we turn.

Do you know that John Kerry was just on The Jon Stewart Show. John asked Kerry if he was or was not in Cambodia? Kerry and Stewart stared at each other and there was no answer given. HMM!

Do I miss peace and prosperity. My three most prosperous years were the last three. Miss them? I am basking in them as we speak. Peace? There has not been a day of peace on this planet in 5,000 years. Whatever day you point to, there was as much peace on that day as was today

Why do I keep bringing up Clinton? Because I do not understand people (you Josh, and Wills) who seem to go through life holding different people to different standards. I am just pointing out similarities.

I NEVER said that everything that Drudge says is true. Tell me, where do you get your truthful news. Tell me a story that Drudge BROKE that was not true.

"Do you know that John Kerry was just on The Jon Stewart Show. John asked Kerry if he was or was not in Cambodia? Kerry and Stewart stared at each other and there was no answer given. HMM!"

I saw that it is was more like 3 sec's of comical stairing and the crowd was loud so no one could say anything. but the thing is bush will never go on there so I really don't see why it matters.

"Do I miss peace and prosperity. My three most prosperous years were the last three. Miss them? I am basking in them as we speak. Peace? There has not been a day of peace on this planet in 5,000 years. Whatever day you point to, there was as much peace on that day as was today"

No body cares about your years, I care about the majority of peoples and the majority of people in the united states are not business owners. Peace comes from pride and joy around you, yes there is peace everyday but if don't provide safe heaven for yourself and to stay away from conflicts then there wont be peace.

"I NEVER said that everything that Drudge says is true. Tell me, where do you get your truthful news. Tell me a story that Drudge BROKE that was not true."

Unlike you i veiw all forms of media and make clear assumptions for myself. I fail to go to the drugereport or smudgereport buth I find highly doubtful.

"I saw that it is was more like 3 sec's of comical stairing and the crowd was loud so no one could say anything. but the thing is bush will never go on there so I really don't see why it matters."

He did not answer the question. In the same way that the Democrats will not go on Bill O'Reilly's show. VERY meaningless point on your part.

"No body cares about your years, I care about the majority of peoples and the majority of people in the united states are not business owners."

I care about everybody's year, and I am baffled why more Americans do not have years like mine. If they would turn off the TV and get up off of their fat lazy asses, quit waiting for the government to turn my HARD EARNED wealth into their ordinary income. They are not all business owners. Again, no ambition, I started a business in June with an initial investment of $1,700 and in the first two months grossed $70,000. I have no special talent, anyone could do it, with the exception of a lazy ass American. Another very meaningless point on your part.

"Peace comes from pride and joy around you, yes there is peace everyday but if don't provide safe heaven for yourself and to stay away from conflicts then there wont be peace."

There is a lot of pride around me. There is a lot of joy around me. There is the same amount of peace around me as there has been everyday of my life. Another meaningless point on your part.

"Unlike you i veiw all forms of media and make clear assumptions for myself. I fail to go to the drugereport or smudgereport."

You cannot say that you view ALL forms of media, when in the same sentence you say you do not view ALL formsof media. I think that you view one or two forms of media.

Closing thought ... you only care that there are people at the bottom of the barrel so that you have someone to wallow in your self pity with. It goes back to your lot in life from last week. It is not our fault that our school desk are destroyed, it is not our fault that we have no income, it is not our fault that we have no jobs. This is all to be blamed on the rich white guy who did not create MORE jobs for us lazy ass Americans. The scariest part of this whole thing Josh, is that liberal America has now created a generation and a half of people like you. People who only complain, but have done and can do nothing. Thank God the NEA didn't have the establishment by the balls when I was growing up.

wow thank you for rambling on, you can think all you want but when it comes down to it you just make an ass out of yourself.

Unlike you I don't just set a standard if I complain, I don't "complain to the white man" I'm white, my whole family is white a matter of fact there is only one black family living in a 25 mile radius of me. My grandfather is a business owner and my girlfriends grandfather is a hefty business owner. And I have never blamed anything on them.

"you only care that there are people at the bottom of the barrel so that you have someone to wallow in your self pity with."

When does it come to the point were you have to ramble on about me when you don't know me, making false acusations because you assume I'm some sort of poor slob from a broken home, just to try to make a political point?

"The scariest part of this whole thing Josh, is that liberal America has now created a generation and a half of people like you. People who only complain, but have done and can do nothing"

I have done many things with my life and all my liberal friends do tons involving the political cycle, I don't know what kind of fantasy world you live in but the majority of my liberial generation does and deals with problems head on. Also when I say liberal I mean liberal, both kerry and nadar supporters.

"This is all to be blamed on the rich white guy who did not create MORE jobs for us lazy ass Americans"
umm, like I said before I never blamed rich white guys, I blamed medical benefits and not enforcing or prusading jobs to stay here. Again you assume somthing.

"I blamed medical benefits and not enforcing or prusading jobs to stay here. Again you assume somthing."

Josh, who should provide you with medical benefits?

Isn't enforcing jobs to stay here kind of isolationist? You can persuade jobs to stay here by buying products that are made here.

That is great that your girlfriends grandfather and your grandfather are hefty business owners. They are the kind of people that have taken risk to obtain the rewards. They are the ones who have BUILT this country. I hope that through osmosis some of that rubs off on you and your girlfriend. Next time you see your grandfather ask him how old the books were when he went to school, and ask him what he drew on his desk.

I have no problem with you being a liberal. There is nothing in your life to make you a conservative. Winston Churchill once said ... "if you are not a liberal by the time you are 25 you do not have a heart, and if you are not a conservative by the time you are 35 you do not have a brain."

"society means 2 percent of the population."

So not true. Society means 100% of the population. But, 98% of the population is not the responsibility of the 2%.

"the majority of my liberial generation does and deals with problems head on"

Throwing rocks at cops, blowing up medical research labs, and other such actions don't qualify as dealing with problems head on.

"is preoccupied with unjustified* doubts about the loyalty or trust-worthiness of friends or associates"

Well, sir, I'd say that sounds very much like Mark Perkel.

Wills, I will apologize for all of the name calling. That apology is extended to Josh, and anyone else that I spoke ill of. Just because you have an opinion that I do not agree with, it does not make you an idiot. Call it a momentary lapse of reason.

Wills, I was a registered Democrat from 1980-82 and again from 1988-present. I might have the mind of a tweleve year old, by I am the most experienced twelve year old that you have ever met. I have done it all on my own. Nobody needs to hold my hand. Show me the possiblities and I will chance them. Looking for no hand out. Nobody owes me anything. Can't stand those who are looking for hand holding from cradle to grave. I really do not want my father (GOD rest his soul) running behind my bike holding on to the seat. Once he let go I rode on my own. People need to be let go, government should not start holding your seat when your dad let's go. I'll NEVER be in that camp.

As for the Democrat thing, it is meaningless. I am a working class guy. Get up everyday, work hard, and save my pennies. I am a fiscal conservative, both parties have failed me in that area. Socially, I think that I am a moderate. I would help anyone, but I will coddle nobody. There is a big difference between helping and coddling.

Mance, why do you bother just don't post I'm prolly going to be the only person who saw you post there. You can not justify what you just said with anything and you are running off what adolesent anarchists do. I mean atleast Tom brings up somthing that is worth debating on.

hey mance, aren't u in the same generation as josh? so the actions of a few basically describes the rest of them? yeap, you must be young. anyhow, tom, wills, wouldn't you think it's fair play to start a group that focuses on bush's military record? yes, kerry is running on that, but since it's open season until nov. 2, i suggest that democrats should stop being polite and play dirty as well. if not, both should stop with the mudslinging and stop destracting the voters with their mance-like antics and focus on the REAL issues. just my thoughts.

No Charlie, I do not think we should start talking about Bush's military record. The reason we talk about Kerry's is because he made it an issue of his campaign. Bush has not made his military record a campaign issue. Which I might add, a candidates military record means nothing in his quest for the White House. Just because a guy played baseball does not mean that he can manage a team.

The establishment wants us to argue about the differences between these two candidates so that we do not notice the similarities. They are both beholden to the establishment, and when elected, the winner will serve the establishment first, and us second. The problem is that they never get done serving the establishment, so we never get served.

thus my secong thought: focus on the issues! it's a shame when most people would rather watch 'reality telivision' then to research the issues, candidates, play with their kids, install that new kitchen sink.

So who will you vote for? You keep on saying both memembers have extreme simularities

--> http://www.presidentmatch.com/Compare.jsp2?idlist=5|10|

"Which I might add, a candidates military record means nothing in his quest for the White House."

Right on the head. Thomas Jefferson, who didn't serve in the military, was one of the best Presidents we've had. Abraham Lincoln saved the country, and didn't serve either. Grant served in the military for a career officer and ended up being one of the worst Presidents in history.

same with bush: served in the military and surpassed grant as being the worst president in american history.

I really don't think it was his yell as much as him not having enough money.

Josh, it was nothing but his yell. The establishment did not want Dean. The establishment instructed the media to tell the sheeple that he acted like a maniac, and the sheeple said , "Yeah, Dean is a maniac." It had absolutely nothing to do with the money.

Dean was anti-establishment, and he was gaining a head of steam. He had to be stopped. The establishment want Kerry or Bush, as they have BOTH proven their loyalty.