Marc Perkel Rantz

Forgive me, but here's another shot of the chair in AG, upper right corner.

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured/iraqis_tortured_wp-b.jpg

As an investigator, let me tell you this sets up a presumption that you would have to rule out in any real investigation. That, the color of the walls and the prison garb are enough in any real investigation to put AG on the list of where this may have been filmed. That chair shows up in AG where all the torture happened in too many photos for it not to be significant.

Why do Soldiers all over the work receive torture resistance training if tortue dosn't work?????????????????????????????????

All over the world -R

Torture resistance training consists of one thing....realizing that there is a threshold where pain doesn't matter anymore. The training teaches you how to deal with the pain so that you can preserve your wits to escape. Every army knows that torture will not gather useful information...it is only used as vengence and cruelty by uncivilized countries.

Like ours...evidently.

And all other countries with free standing armies.

I want to interview Mark Perkel Rantz (love the name) on my radio show, Rockin' the Boat!! Specifically, I'd like to talk about the Nick Berg killing..... my show is every weekday m-f from 5:30-6pm PST... email me...
V-Man

Torture works.

maybe not in all cases but certainly against weaker minded individuals.

Torture on the whole doesn't work. It undermines our society and our own morals when we use it. Are we not "better than them"? Aren't we there to show "them uncivilized heathens" how a democracy works? Combatants are much less likely to lay down their weapons if they know they may be tortured when captured. It may get you some information today but in the long run it causes more damage. That is why torture doesn't work.

That chair the same one I have at home its also the same one chulabis office. I wonder if there are any fords in Iraq if so it must be evidence of an american conspiracy. Frankly I think americans are a little brighter than you give credit for. It would not be hard to fake a video. Especialy with the amount of technology availavble to day.

This was posted today on a Yahoo board:

NEWS- Berg & Abu VidCamera is SAME
by: mfc1212 (M/Rochester NY) 05/21/04 03:15 pm
Msg: 12296 of 12617
15 recommendations

one as Prison abuse was used. Word is spreading around Kodak Park here in Rochester NY. And will break on national News tonite that Kodak film experts have analyzed the Nick Berg video and some of the Abu Grhaib Prison videos comparing them for certain encrypted recording signatures.
Each Video camera leaves a certain signature mark, much like a fingerprint or striation markings on bullets in gun barrels. Same goes for CD-ROM Burners, they leave a trace or type of Cookies on the finished product.
These are tested by computer and not visible by the nekkid eye. Experts here after lunch have concluded that one of the 2 video cameras used in the Nick Berg "beheading" was also used to film US troop abuses of Iraqi detainees.
THIS is BAD news for BushCorp., Military, and CIA. .

http://news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=&action=m&board=37138445&tid=apprisonerabusephotos&sid=37138445&mid=12296

There are all kinds of reasons why torture doesn't work but the main reason in my mind at this time is that because of our new American romance with torture we have lowered ourselves to the level or terrorists and will probably loose the war because of this behavior. It got so out of hand that instead of disiplined marines descreatly doing this sort of thing so that we never hear about it, we've given the priveledge to US Army Reserve folks sure to mess it up, and they sure did. We don't need torture and they are so despirate to use it because what we really want out of these Iraqi mouths is what we want to here. For instance we would love a torture victime despirate to make us stop convince us that thoes Weapons of mass destruction exist.

"Why do Soldiers all over the work receive torture resistance training if tortue dosn't work?????????????????????????????????"

Insurance. To make sure it doesn't.

Torture does work. If it were useless, then it wouldn't be used anymore. However, it does work, especially on people not prepared for it. The problem is in the reliability rate of the information extracted.

If you can keep clamed up until you pass out, more power to you. Me, I know I'd talk eventually. I tend to be a bit fatalistic and wouldn't expect to survive a serious interrogation. Best way to defeat the torturers would be to start telling a mixture of truth and lies right from the beginning. Get yourself so mixed up that all they'd get would be gibberish. Yeah, you'll be crippled or dead, but you still would have beaten them.

You can be sure that many of the iraqis, afghans, and alqaeda folks know this too - and they seem to have less inhibitions to self sacrifice than we westerners do.

Do what works. If torture doesn't get the info we need to save American lives, don't use it. But if torture does work....
It seems that those against doing what's necessary put greater value on the single life of a POW than they do on the many innocent lives that the POW was trying to destroy.
We are no better than them if we use torture?
We are not trying to be better than them.
We are trying to kill them until we have won the war.

Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.
Winston Churchill

If my children were being held, and a bomb was tied to them with a timer, and I had the guy who knew where they were and how to diffuse the bomb, I would do what would be necessary to save their lives, as I would if your children, or family was in the same situation. It is a difficult situation, but if torture would work, I would do it. I certainly wouldn't enjoy it, but would consider it a "necessary evil," in order to save lives. There is such a thing a a "greater good," just like you would speed, and pass illegally, if your passenger needed immediate medical attention. Tough question.

I believe that toture has its place in war. As long as there is fighting between people, there will always be torture. Torture does work, but only on people who don't have enough willpower to overcome it. And it is tough to say when it should be used. If someone had a nuclear device in a city and was going to set it off, torture was most certainly be warrented. But as a means of perverted pleasure due to causing pain, then no, it has no place. I myself don't believe that I could stand up to torture unless I had a good reason, such as keeping my men alive or anyone else under my command. As for the torture training, I believe that it is helpful, even if just to provide information regarding what it is like. For knowledge is power. And with that knowledge, you can be prepared.