May 13, 2004

It's the same chair !!!! OMFG !!

Here's where you really need the tin foil hat. Look at this pic that was released today of the latest prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib prison. Notice the white chair in the lower left corner. Now - look at the chair Nicholas Berg is sitting in!! It's the same fucking chair!!

I have some more pics but the walls are the same yellow color and the baseboard is the same color as Abu Ghraib prison. Then - as I've said before - what is Nicholas Berg doing in an orange prison jump suit? The orange jump suit is the same color as the ones used at the prison!!! Terrorists don't put the people they kidnap in orange prison jump suits!

Now - put that together with the fact that these "terrorists" are WHITE and FAT and they are wearing BULLET PROOF VESTS!! So who goes around wearing bullet proof vests all the time? People like CIA - Prison guards!

This is enough to scare the shit out of you but - Nicholas Berg was murdered by AMERICANS at Abu Ghraib prison. They staged it so as to make it look like terrorists murdered Berg.

If you have a different opinion then you tell me why they have the same plastic furniture - the same walls - the same floorboard color - and the same orange jump suit. You tell me why these terrorists are fat white guys wearing bullet proof vests. You tell me why they speak bad Arabic. You tell me why they yell like Americans when they kill Berg. I suppose the terrorist picked up those chairs at the local WalMart!

There is a dispute as to if Berg was in US custody. He was arrested by Iraqi police but they claim they turned him over to American custody. America however denies that they had him.

CNN said initially that they were sure the voice was NOT al-Zarqawi. The CIA however confirms that it is. Isn't that amazing! I listen to the voices and it doesn't sound like the voices of someone who speaks Arabic as their first language.

But you see - it's not about the voices that make you think it's not al-Zarqawi. In May 2002 Zarqawi traveled to Iraq. He had his leg amputated and had a prosthetic limb to replace it. So - for a guy with ONE LEG al-Zarqawi is VERY NIMBLE on his feet! So - make you wonder how well the CIA thought things through when they decided to play terrorist?


This is what a REAL terrorists look like. This is the picture of Daniel Pearl who was also killed by terrorists. Notice the thin brown hands - the grabbing of the hair - and the gun to the head. The guy is mean - angry. Pearl has on ordinary clothes and his hands are chained. When you look at the picture you can feel the wildness of a true terrorist. You can tell Pearl looks like he knows he is in big trouble. The clothes on the terrorists look normal for the region - but on the photos of the Berg terrorists - they look like they are in a costume.


Now look at the Berg terrorists. These guys look like the 5 stooges! They are FAT and WHITE. Check out the guy on the right. Do I see WHITE SHOES? Wonder how he keeps them clean running around the Iraqi desert?

When he reads the statement - does he sound angry? I don't hear it. He's reading a script.

As to can see on terrorists 2, 4, and 5 - the BULLET PROOF VESTS. American MPs wear them all the time. To them it's like putting on their underwear. hey wear them so that if a prisoner tries to make a knife and stab them in the heart - they are protected. I guess they never thought they would show up under the terrorist costume.

Berg has no idea what it about to happen. He looks comfortable - perhaps to comfortable. I think they probably told him that they wanted him to pretend to be a hostage in order to get out of prison. Berg knew he was back at Abu Ghraib prison and that his "captors" were Americans - and that he was playing a role. Notice the orange prison garb in the picture.

The beheading changed the mood of the nation. Several lawmakers commented that after the beheading that it reminded them what the real issues were. So the beheading had the intended effect - that is - to inflame Americans and get them to think that torture is something that can be acceptable.

What we are seeing here people scares me beyond belief. I sit here stunned. I want to call someone but don't know who to call. If this turns out to be true - the world will experience a moment of horror unlike anything the world has ever experienced - except maybe the nuking of Japan.

WHAT YOU NEED TO DO: What I've posted here isn't an absolute conclusion but asks a lot of questions that need to be answered. I need you to get everyone possible to link to this web page - or - copy it and post it on other sites. I need you to call your members in the US House and Senate. I need you to call your local radio and TV stations and get them to look at this.

Even though exposing this is bad for America - what is really bad for America is if we do this and get away with it. We can not allow America to become like NAZIs. The integrity of who we are and what we believe in must be preserved. We are a people of TRUTH and the only thing that's important is to find out WHAT REALLY HAPPENED HERE.

More strange stuff:
The link below is a Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) documentary called Convoy of Death documenting the slaughter of 3000 Afgan POWs in December of 2001.
Afgan POWs Killed - 55mb Quicktime Format

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I've closed the comments on this. There are already too many comments and just about everything that can be said has been said dozens of times.

Addressing other issues and comments

A lot of you have left comments about what I wrote that should be addressed. There are many who agree - many who disagree - and many who are confounded. Some people have posted other reasons to support or not support my assessment. I'm not going to address everything - but try to hit the main points.

First - I tried to stick with what I though was the most solid questions abut the beheading. There are other less solid ones - but I wanted to be focused.

Then - one of my goals is to raise these questions so that they get answered. There may be a reason that the terrorists dressed Berg in the same garb used in the prison. There may be reasons for everything I raised. I want to hear those things explained. I want to hear the questions asked - if nothing else - but to give satisfaction to those who disagree with me to gloat. Let's ask the questions and get the answers.

Yes - every single item taken by itself can be explained as an amazing coincidence. But when you out it all together - it crosses the line into something else. It's like if you tell me you once won the state lottery I'd say - wow - you must be very lucky. But then you tell me you won the lottery twice and I say - "er - really?" Then you say - I won the lottery 5 times in a row ..... Now you're lying - even though each single instance is barely believable.

In this case we have the same situation. The prison garb - maybe. The chair - maybe. The two legs instead of one - maybe. They were all white and fat - maybe. But - put it all together - I'm not buying it.

Furthermore - for those of you who haven't made the leap to the conclusion I came to - that Americans dressed as terrorists did it - you at least have to admit that serious questions are raised that need to be answered. And I'm hoping you all will help me get the questions asked.

  • No Blood - I only watched it once but it was a blur to me. There may be a reason that there is blood (has to be blood) but we don't see it. The reality is - Berg really is dead - and his head really was cut off. So - whatever doesn't make sense about the blood is just generally confusing.

  • The Gold Ring I'm told this is against Islamic law. And - that contributes to the argument. I personally don't find it persuasive by itself, but it contributes a little.

  • The Tape was Edited - Yes - there are wo time lines on the tape. What does that mean? Does it mean it was faked? Again - Nick Berg is really dead. So - I believe he was actually killed by the guys on the tape. But - what it does indicate is that the terrorists have what seems to be two cameras and digitial video editing equipment. Other tapes from bin Laden are not as high tech. Generally a physical copy is delivered to a TV station rather than a two camera production that is digitally edited and uploaded to a web site.

  • Why cover his face and then give his name? - Yes - this is a good point. That is what you would do if you weren't who you say you are. And it's one of those add on reasons that supports my conclusion.

  • Political Timing and Motives - I've avoided this because I don't want to get distracted by a political debate. That debate is there - but I'm trying to focus on the facts that are not in dispute. I draw my information from the published pictures. Motive do need to be considered - but I'm not going there in this article.

  • The CIA couldn't be that stupid - Yes - they can. This murder looks like the kind of short term bad thinking that the Bush administration is known for. The prison sex abuse pics we are seeing shows that - yes - they really can be that stupid.

  • Orange Prison Garb - This is what I consider the strongest red flag that he was at the prison. Americans put prosiners in orange so that if they escape they are easier to spot. The last thing a kidnapper is going to do is put a hostage in orange. Orange is what you put on people who you want to attract attention to.

    Berg was in custody of the US. Something the US is still lying about. So - when he was released do you think they are going to send him out on the streets of Iraq wearing orange? Not hardly! Orange means pick this guy up and bring him back to prison. They would have taken the prison garb away and gave him his clothes back.

    Even if for some reason he got out with prison grab on - the first thing he would have done is get regular clothes. You just would not walk around Iraq wearing orange.

    So - then if he's abducted again by terrorists - and lets say that they somehow had clothing just like the prison garb - are they going to put him in it? Not hardly. If you are a terrorist kidnapper the last thing you want to do is draw attention your way. So - orange prison outfit - no way!


Posted by marc at May 13, 2004 09:59 PM | TrackBack
Comments

And someone pointed out that if the fellow doing the beheading is al-Zarqawi he's too flexible for a fellow with a prosthetic leg.

That may or may not be true, a doctor would know...

Posted by: kazz at May 14, 2004 01:31 AM

My wife's sixth sense caught Berg's strange demeanor from the beginning. She knew something was not right from Berg's relative calmness despite the horrific circumstances. This is getting VERY weird. I hope the truth gets out.
Good work, Marc.

Posted by: Holy Moly at May 14, 2004 02:02 AM

Is this another possible clue? ABC News reported that the "terrorist" who beheaded Berg wore a large gold ring. This is forbidden by Islamic tradition. Why would a hardcore Islamic fundamentalist wear gold jewellry?

"A close examination of the tape shows none of the five masked men is wearing gloves, so federal officials are trying to determine if there are any tell-tale tattoos on their hands. One of the clues the FBI and CIA is studying is the large gold ring Zarqawi is wearing on his right hand, giving off a glare several times during the six-minute tape."

http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=9529&TagID=2

Posted by: Holy Moly at May 14, 2004 02:34 AM

Gold is NOT forbidden. Try a simple Google search and one card in this house comes tumbling.

Posted by: JimK at May 14, 2004 02:37 AM

What kind of ring is on the finger of the terrorist holding a gun to Pearl's head (in the photo on this page)?

Posted by: MadBlue at May 14, 2004 02:49 AM

I saw the video too. The version I saw was from c*****junction.com and looking at the clock in the bottom corner, it jumps from 02:44:51 (or something) when Nick is dragged to the ground before he is killed to 13:45:47. A couple of senconds later and after some "sawing" his head is removed. What's the story with the clock??? Was there 2 cameras? One of them using European clock on daylight saving and the other using US style AM/PM. Is there missing footage? Was it really a person or a dummy after the clock jumps in the footage. Special effects could be involved.

What do you think?

Posted by: Jonathan at May 14, 2004 02:53 AM

"Gold is NOT forbidden. Try a simple Google search and one card in this house comes tumbling."

The fact that www.khilafah.com is an Islamic site holds more water with me than your Google search. They put the title heading "Executioner wore gold ring - forbidden by Islam" above the ABC story which was originally titled "Behind the Masks Clues From Graphic Tape of Beheading Could Help Identify Killers" and did not mention anything about gold rings being forbidden by Islam. BTW, the killers of Daniel Pearle were Pakistanis and not Arab.

Posted by: Holy Moly at May 14, 2004 03:04 AM

"BTW, the killers of Daniel Pearle were Pakistanis and not Arab."

I know. If gold jewelry is forbidden by Islam, it doesn't matter whether the follower is Arabic or Pakistani.

Then again, hardcore fundamentalists (of any religion) pick and choose which rules to emphasize and which to ignore just as much as any other follower does.

Posted by: MadBlue at May 14, 2004 03:42 AM

Its not a bloody conspiracy, there have been enough real errors made without people resorting to fantastical scenarios. There is NO rule in Islam about gold, the very idea is ridiculous and only goes to prove how few Americans actually know Muslims. Almost all Muslims I know wear gold, and living in Leeds in in the UK I know lots.

Posted by: whalesaver at May 14, 2004 03:52 AM

Muslim men are prohibited from wearing gold. This is rather easily reinforced by a Hadith "Gold and silk are lawful for the women of my Ummah, but unlawful for its men"

By the way, my muslim wife is also insisting muslim men aren't supposed to wear gold.

Posted by: TailofDogma at May 14, 2004 05:11 AM

Gold prohibited???
Jimmy Swaggart was prohibited from jerking off all over a whore in New Orleans but it happened. And the fact that it happened does not prove that he is not Jimmy Swaggart. Your evidence is nonsense.

Posted by: ZOMBYWOOF at May 14, 2004 05:29 AM

Maybe it's a brass ring. You know, *looks* like gold? The guy putting a gun to Pearl's head has a ring on his right ring finger. Is it gold? Don't know. Hard to scrape the photograph.

Posted by: Dean Webb at May 14, 2004 05:41 AM

i didn't saw the movie, because its to cruel, but the things that Marc posted are showing that all things may not be as they look.

Posted by: kavselj at May 14, 2004 06:17 AM

Has the mothership landed yet? First, and follow me here, do you think it is possible that in all of Iraq, there is more than one $4 white plastic chair? Yeah, me too.

Secondly, you guys are killing me with the "gold ring" thing. If these people are willing to murder innocent civilians, women, children, etc., I'm thinking it isn't much of a stretch for them to wear gold.

Put your tin foil hats back on....quickly.

Posted by: BamaGOPer at May 14, 2004 06:42 AM

In most parts of the world (i.e. NOT 'Merica) there are very little choices when you want to buy something like a plastic chair. I live in Hong Kong--and if I want something like a garden hose, for instance, there is ONE type of garden hose--no Wal-Mart 24 different choices and colors like you get in the US, but ONE. Everyone here has the same damn garden hose. So just because it's the same type of chair doesn't mean anything. It's probably the only kind of chair available...

Posted by: btap at May 14, 2004 06:43 AM

Have you looked at the footage of the war? I have seen plenty of fat Iraqis running around.
Good Lord people....thanks for the humor.

Posted by: Realist at May 14, 2004 07:35 AM

I've heard it mentioned that one of the possible reasons for the orange jumpsuit is that Berg was actually in US custody for some time, and in fact had pretty much just been released. Some have theorized that his executioners put him in the jumpsuit to make a statement about Gitmo detainees, but I find this much less plausable.

I think skepticism, questions and debate are healthy, but I would hesitate to jump to any one conclusion. Thanks for the insights, they are definitely food for thought.

Posted by: Cicero Hood at May 14, 2004 07:37 AM

A CIA conspiracy... interesting...

How F*cking stupid do we think they are? If the CIA were behind this, would they have made such a HUGE number of mistakes? I don't think so, and I know I'm right!

Posted by: |ngv@r at May 14, 2004 07:38 AM

May 14, 2004
Regarding the chair.
Chairs like that are bought and sold around the world.
Why would a chair like that prove anything unusual...
If possible, please explain.. Thank You

Posted by: Joe Messina at May 14, 2004 07:41 AM

It's really sad that we've become a people that think we know all the answers and second guess everyone. Leave the Armed Forces alone and let them do their job. My son's over there and I wish all you people with nothing else to do would get behind our government instead making our Nation look bad with all your bitching. It'd be pretty darn hard for anyone to fight for freedom knowing the people the're fighting for are so completely stupid and uncaring. Do something good or shut the hell up!

Posted by: Pat Atkinson at May 14, 2004 07:58 AM

Wearing gold or silk is a sin (haram) for Muslim men: http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/Q_LP/ch2s2pre.htm#Gold%20and%20Pure%20Silk%20are%20Haram%20for%20Men

Posted by: Anonymous Coward at May 14, 2004 08:06 AM

My question is, why were they wearing masks? That seems very out of place.

Posted by: Dave Barrios at May 14, 2004 08:11 AM

Marc
SOMETHING ELSE SMELLS

I think that you raise some really interesting questions.

There is also something very smelly about the photos of British soldiers abusing prisoners. It is a bizarre coincidence that the British photos which are now proven to be faked miraculously appeared on the heels of the American photos.

I think this coincidence STINKS OF KARL ROVE because the British photos took the heat off American abuses and smeared British efforts which up to that point were stellar compared to the American efforts.

American efforts were looking pathetic compared to the British who were establishing good relations in their sector.

Could it be that Rove has done to the British reputation what he did to McCain's? Has Rove sought to destroy the British reputation so that the America doesn't look so bad in comparison?

Posted by: Paule at May 14, 2004 08:16 AM

My questions:
If you read CNN initial article on the beheading here:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/11/iraq.main/index.html

you'll note a few interesting things:

1. The speaker identifies himself as Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
2. The web site states that the speaker/executioner is Abu Musab al-Zarqai.
3. CNN staffers said it doesn't sound like Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
4. He's covering his head and face with a scarf and ski mask
5. Abu Musab al-Zarqai was reported to have lost a leg over a year ago at which point he began wearing a prosthetic leg - this guys has two real legs.

The BIG question:

If he identifies himself by name, as CNN says, WHY THE BLOODY HELL IS HE COVERING HIS FACE?!

Why does the CIA say it sounds like him, but CNN says not?

Posted by: Dontkillmenextgeorge at May 14, 2004 08:22 AM

Kerry is a nimrod.

Hope that helps.

Shalom!

Posted by: Marty at May 14, 2004 08:24 AM

Those arent bullet proof vests...man is your info really messed up!

Posted by: HaHa at May 14, 2004 08:24 AM

Man, that damned chair gets around. Last week, I saw it on a National Geographic TV program: a monk was sitting on it in a cave in Tibet, where they were restoring 16th century Bhuddist frescoes. Last year, it was on my aunt's front porch in Buffalo.

"Bullet proof vests"? (cackle) You know what? You don't know what in the world you're talking about, but I'm just telling you: nobody in that video was wearing a bullet proof vest.

Posted by: Billy Beck at May 14, 2004 08:29 AM

I've been researching descrepancies on the whole Nicholas Berg thing, and I'm up to 15 pages already. There's a lot of questions, and damned few answers.

But your piece today really doesn't hold water. Those white lawn chairs are common as dirt, sold everywhere in the world, almost. American tennis shoes are even more pervasive, and in the middle east, there's nothing extraordinary about terrorists owning bullet proof vests.

As I said, there's a lot of questions that demand answers without sailing off the edge. Why was Berg in Iraq, really? (Do you buy the idea of a starry-eyed Bush idealist?) Did the Americans hold him, or the Vichy Iraqis? How did he come to be alone in downtown Baghdad in an orange jump suit? Or did America or Iraq turn him over to al-Qaida, or allow him to be captured in the hopes that something like this might occur?

The identity of the purported killers is open to conjecture, of course. But no jury is going to buy evidence as flimsy as the world's most common type of chair, or tennis shoes.

Posted by: Zepp Jamieson at May 14, 2004 08:38 AM


Hey Freepers -
Glad to see you've all realized that plastic chairs can be bought anywhere - you're not as dumb as you look.

Still you haven't answered these questions:
Why would he identify himself but wear a mask?
(answer: it ain't him - duh!)
Why is he so agile with a prosthetic leg?
(answer: it ain't him - duh!)

So who is it really and why are they pretending to be Abu Musab al-Zarqawi?

Come on Freepers give this one a try!

Posted by: Dontkillmenextgeorge at May 14, 2004 08:39 AM

so a white chair is hard to come by, and the orange jump suit is also the rarest of items. oh and you can realy tell anything definite from the video and its crystal clear resalution. all this is, is a fan on the flame of conspiracy. oh and i bet if you look hard enough there's black helechopters in the background. go back to lookin at porno ya freaks!!!

Posted by: jujuking at May 14, 2004 08:51 AM

zzzzzzzzzzzzz

well thanks for the waste of time, ive heard some real crackpot theories but yours is right off the BS scale and does not even make sense at all.

Posted by: perry mason at May 14, 2004 08:53 AM

Hmm, terrorists can't be fat?

Here are two photos of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
photo 1
photo 2

Maybe he's one of those double chinned skinny guys. Khalid is reportedly to have been the hand that took Daniel Pearl's life before they cut his head off.

Keep digging Mark. I think you're probably on to the fact that there's more questions than answers to the story of Nick Berg, but my favorite is still the life of the lawn chair.

I'm having an Al Qaida party this weekend. Which translated means I'm having a barbeque and we'll be sitting in chairs identical to the ones Nick Berg was seated in meaning we're with the terrorists.

Byee'eeeee

Posted by: Loving and Hating Mark Perkel at May 14, 2004 09:07 AM

I'm tired of the rhetoric of all this. Shut up and speak with the biggest power given to you by the greatest country on this earth. If you don't like what's going on then VOTE. But for now we have to stand behind this administration and do what we need to do to make sure that our men and women in uniform have our 100% support no matter what. The more we enable these fanatics and allow our slanted media to keep putting doubts in our heads about whose right or wrong the more serious this situation gets. We know that these terrorists are the radical minority, we know that they are capable of doing what we've seen on this video; so quit with the conspiracy theories and let's get this job done...on their turf. 9/11 proved that this world has changed dramatically and our oceans do not protect us anymore. What was seen on that video is what these radicals want to do to everyone of you and your loved ones. They will not stop until all western civilization is wiped from the face of this planet. If we stop now then before we know it that scene will played out in living rooms across America as some sick, demented radical Islamic reality TV show. Put away the bias and the hate and let's unite as a country...THE greatest country...and let's give our military and this administration our undivided support so that these thugs can be ended....NOW...while we have them on the run! GOD BLESS AMERICA!!

Posted by: Curt Caito at May 14, 2004 09:11 AM

This definitely raises some valid questions. Thanks for the research Marc. There are just way too many discrepancies regarding this video. There is something not right about the so called terrorists in the video and Nick's calm demeanor, as well as a lack of blood. There would have to be blood everywhere in that room and all over the 'terrorists'. And please don't tell me Nick didn't know what they were going to do to him if in fact that was really the case. But, before I jump to any conclusions I would like to see more evidence. The whole issue could probably be easily answered using simple forensic techniques. Nick's body is due back in the states in the next day or two. Why not have reputable forensic investigators look for fibers, hairs and hopefully DNA evidence on Nick's body? Just my 2 cents worth here. Thanks for listening.

Posted by: Boone at May 14, 2004 09:13 AM

Hey Marc - I believe you're on to something here. I have had it in the back of my mind for the last day or so, that SOMETHING is not right!

These people (BushCO) are capable of anything, and nothing is too low to stoop to.

Good job!
Dex

Posted by: Dex Mandark at May 14, 2004 09:24 AM

It all seems pretty convenient to me.Prison abuse comes out,Bush approval ratings go down.Approval of Bush's war keeps dropping.Looks like a ROVE job to me!

Posted by: Robert Arnold at May 14, 2004 09:30 AM

Marc - you are the "most dangerous mind on the internet", because you don't reseach anything before you publish this crap.
1)White chair, how many millions are there. I own 4 myself.
2)'Bullet Proof Vest' these are AK47 Ammo Vests.
3)Orange Jump Suite. The material is to light, no collar, no zipper or front closure, short wide arms. This NOT a prison jump suit that I have ever seen.

Posted by: Geo at May 14, 2004 09:36 AM

I wasn't going to post again, but I am disturbed by people who attack others in this forum just because they want to look at all the possibilities in this case. Calling someone a retard doesn't help anything now does it? Why are these people always so obviously illiterate too? No capitalization, no punctuation, horrid misspellings of the English language etc....and they propose to tell us who can and cannot speak 'fluent Arabic'. Yeah, I'm really going to give you a lot of credibility buddy.

Posted by: Boone at May 14, 2004 09:42 AM

There must have been two cameras filming the execution. The timecode inconsistency cannot be explained any other way. Why do you have two cameras for an execution? Why do you edit a snuff video? What's with the horrendous audio? THere's certainly more to this than is apparent.

Posted by: drza at May 14, 2004 09:45 AM

I've witnessed knifings to the neck when I worked with JV's. Where is all the blood? If someone is being beheaded alive without a tourniquet, and he's screaming so there is no tourniquet, there will be blood squirting all over the place. Where's the blood?

I knew there was something very phoney about this whole incident from the very beginning, but now I KNOW that this was a set up of somekind.

Has anyone thought that perhaps Mossad was involved? They would like nothing more than us fighting their battle for them, free.

Posted by: Louise K at May 14, 2004 09:45 AM

As I said, there's a lot of questions that demand answers without sailing off the edge. Why was Berg in Iraq, really? (Do you buy the idea of a starry-eyed Bush idealist?)
Posted by: Zepp Jamieson at May 14, 2004 08:38 AM

MK-Ultra? Was he unknowingly recruited by the CIA to go work in Iraq to be used at the appropriate time? His father had been on the right-wing hitlist for being anti-war... it's one possibility.

Posted by: Planet B at May 14, 2004 09:57 AM

My photo links didn't work. Damn html.

photo 1
http://www.foxnews.com/images/83349/4_21_mohammed_khalid_shaikh.jpg

photo 2
http://www.4law.co.il/kalid.jpg

Holy moly: khilafah.com says it is an Islamic website. The posters say they are Islamic. The posters quote Islamic verses. Does that mean they are Islamic? NOPE!

If I apply Mark's standards khilafah.com is likely a CIA front like the rumored jihadunspun.com.

Something tells me that sipping drinks at a titty bar is against Islam, but that didn't stop Mohammed Atta and Marwan al-Shehi.

Posted by: Loving and Hating Mark Perkel at May 14, 2004 09:59 AM

First of all, what makes anyone think that this country is any less deceiptful than the next. Does anyone remember vietnam, how about watergate, how about clinton? Do you think anything is ever going to change without a booming voice from the American population. We cant just post some comments on a website and expect the whole world to flip 180 degrees and start singing Kum-Ba Yah!!!! I hardly ever believe what the government tells us....
The chair.....Please, theyre everywhere!
what we really need to ask is this...
Where are these beheadings taking place?! It looks like theyre sitting very comfortably in an air-conditioned office building! If we are in a complete state of occupation, why cant we find this damn location? If they still have a building to flee to, I guess we are still at war. All of this is a cover-up so America can save face after the prison torturings... I know its hard to stomach, but America needs to wake up and smell the white-out on CIA documents!

Posted by: Drew at May 14, 2004 10:00 AM

Pleeeeeeeeeeeease -

CHAIR: The US didn't bring that cheap white chair from the states. It's simply a popular mass produced chair in Iraq. Similar to those black halogen lamps that every college student seems to have.

FAT: Maybe they are wearing robes or have weapons strapped to their body. Maybe they eat too much falafel.

WHITE SHOES: It's impossible to have white shoes in a desert?

WEARING MASKS: They are cowards. Cowards that hide behind masks and their God when taking an innocent man's life.


This was a despicable act by evil people that scare the living hell out of me. After running the story about the prison abuse for 15 consecutive days on popular iraq sites (like http://english.aljazeera.net) This story gets covered twice. Once quoting mixed reactions of the people in Iraq mostly blaming Bush and the White house. The second one with this conspiracy about it being a US murder to grab the media's attention away from the prisoner abuses.

I didn't read of one public protest or one leader speaking out against the atrocity.

Posted by: Guy Spy at May 14, 2004 10:03 AM

This article by John C. Dvorak at PC Magazine does a good job explaining the reality of digital images. This whole event does not pass the smell test.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1590180,00.asp

Posted by: M Patrick at May 14, 2004 10:04 AM

To Guy Spy:

Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the UAE all condemned this act publically.

Posted by: Lousie K at May 14, 2004 10:05 AM

Boone: Perhaps not everyong posting in this forum is American or speaks, writes and reads perfect English. Possible, no? Don't be a racist. :)

Louise K said "Has anyone thought that perhaps Mossad was involved? They would like nothing more than us fighting their battle for them, free."

Umm, the Arab world hates Israel more than ever. Was that in the cards of getting the Americans to fight a war for Israel with no cost to Israel?

Posted by: Loving and Hating Mark Perkel at May 14, 2004 10:06 AM

I think anyone who is skeptical about this, and about the lawn chair, do a google search, type in

"nick berg" fishy, and dig for yourself, and read for yourself. The white chair is just another thing. Like someone wrote about- you could get up to 15 pages on the inconsistencies...

Like why did the US gov lie and say he was never in custody, but then emails came out showing that he was? If he was in the custody of Iraqi police, why didn't the US do anything or care?

Like I said, dig for yourself. It's not about the rings, or the weight of the guys, there are many, many weird things, so look them up before you come to any conclusions (including dismissing this all as "tin foil hat")

Why did the CIA "mistake" the translation, and confuse the word "al queda" with the arabic phrase for "doing nothing."

Posted by: rmc at May 14, 2004 10:14 AM

One more thing:

This story was SPLASHED across the news...now, considering all the debate we've had in recent weeks, about how you can't show pictures of troops coming home in coffins because we have to respect the families' privacy...here we have a case where the family REQUESTED that this not be publicized. And nobody cared. Sean Hannity didn't care, he's using the audio to rile everyone up. This serves a useful purpose, and it's very strange how the media, tv and newspapers, feasted on it. It probably got great ratings. Even if it was censored on the tv networks, it was still hyped up..."You can hear the scream."

If I was his family, I would be devasted. This story has been pushed in a way that they can probably not escape. You can't go to Duncan Donuts's without CNN being on. I'm sure they couldn't hide from it, and I feel terrible for them. If this was my son, or brother. Just imagine.

And then explain to me why all those coffin photos had to be censored.

Posted by: rmc at May 14, 2004 10:19 AM

The white chairs are not one and the same. The angle of the arms as they go upward is different.

Folks, no one wears American tennis shoes these days. Everyone wears CHINESE tennis shoes.

Posted by: foggy at May 14, 2004 10:22 AM

I appreciate the comment Loving. By the way, It's Marc Perkel not Mark Perkel. I'm far from being a racist. My partner is African American, my best friend is Jewish and I am an American hybrid, so that one just doesn't work, sorry! I teach, so I'm sorry if illiteracy in the US bothers me. Getting back to the subject......

I still think examining the body for forensic evidence is the best bet at this point. It may create more questions than answers, but hey, it's worth a try. Since the 'terrorists' grabbed Nick and had their paws all over him, they may have left DNA evidence on his body. If so, it can be used to at least get a RACIAL profile of the persons in the video. Then we might be able to tell if they were Asian, Caucasian or what have you. Again, I make no claim to be Mr. Know It All, I'm far from it to be sure, but I think it's very much worth a try. My apology for hurting anyone's feelings in my previous post. Yes, I watch way too much Court TV and I idolize Dayle Hinman. *Grin*

Posted by: Boone at May 14, 2004 10:25 AM

First of all, in my opinion, who the hell cares what we do to those rat bastards???? They'd kill you in a second! They should string em up so we can all "abuse" them. They wouldn't be prisoners if they didn't do anything. They have killed so many of our people and the men and women over there are so stress out, who could blame them for beating them???? Wouldn't you??? As for the big "conspiracy" come on! Next your gonna say 9-11 was a conspiracy by our government too.

Posted by: TMB at May 14, 2004 10:27 AM

Oh! And I have a chair like that on my porch and a yellow house????? Hmmmmm does that mean I killed him?

Posted by: TMB at May 14, 2004 10:29 AM

Irrelevant question:

What is England holding in her hand?

Posted by: ~Chip :) at May 14, 2004 10:32 AM

Actually, I thought Ms England was polishing ashtray's at first. Hmm, I don't know, but there are known knowns, that is to say, we know what we know is not known to be known. Ask Rumsfeld, he might know.

Posted by: Boone at May 14, 2004 10:38 AM

I DID IT

Posted by: Osama bin Laden at May 14, 2004 10:38 AM

you wanna see another thing that makes this real interesting? sorry if someone or marc already talked about it...

http://www.nbc5.com/news/3304146/detail.html?z=dp&dpswid=1167317&dppid=65192


9/11 Connection Reported To

There is a 9/11 connection to the American who was beheaded by terrorists in Iraq.

It turns out that the FBI questioned Nick Berg two years ago after finding his e-mail address was used by an acquaintance of 9/11 suspect Zacarias Moussaoui. It happened in 1999 when Berg was a student at the University of Oklahoma. Moussaoui attended flight school in Oklahoma, but the two apparently never met, and the FBI ruled out any terror link for Berg.

The CIA now said there is a "high probability" that Berg's videotaped execution was carried out by terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. The tape of the brutal beheading claims it's retaliation for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. soldiers.

Posted by: george burdell at May 14, 2004 10:47 AM

yes there are many puzzling aspects to the video.
the chair, the jumpsuit, the resemblance to the prison, ect. but only one mention of the most puzzling question. the lack of blood. where is the arterial spray that happens when someone's neck is cut? look at the pictures of the bastard's hand when he holds nick's head up to the camera. not a drop of blood on them. when you can explain to me how someone can saw through a living human beings neck, and not get blood on oneself, i'll take this video at face value. he was already dead when they decapitated him. i know this raises the point that he is still dead and it doesn't really matter when he died. however, why would al quaeda kill him and then fake his death for the camera? does this fit their mo?

Posted by: michael at May 14, 2004 10:48 AM

"To them it's like putting on their underwear. hey wear them so that if a prisoner tries to make a knife and stab them in the heart - they are protected."

As others have pointed out, they're not wearing bullet-proof vests. Look at the guy standing 2nd from the left (in the white hood) - the vest doesn't even cover his heart. Compare that to the bullet-proof vest the soldier labeled #6 in the first photograph is wearing.

Posted by: MadBlue at May 14, 2004 10:48 AM

I notice in the photograph that Lynndie England is also sitting in a white lawn chair as well.

Posted by: ken at May 14, 2004 10:50 AM

Ah, Osama! Nice to have you here in our lovely forum. Could you possibly give us a clue as to your whereabouts? I'll be sure to let your buddy Dubya know, so you can meet up for some Chai and biscuits avec Baba Ganoush!

Posted by: Boone at May 14, 2004 10:50 AM

I've read this entry and I read as much as I could stand of the bitching and arguing making up these comments. Granted the dude is presenting himself to be someone he's not. But didn't some other notorious terrorist use doubles? Maybe they couldn't find a perfect match. Or maybe our friends from the good ol' Army are playing mind games with Iraq using propaganda to get us all riled up. It's not morally right and it scares us sheltered spoiled Americans. But I don't think our own killed our own. I like the dummy idea. But either way can't you see us getting angry? Maybe to draw a little attention away from the "atrocities" of our own interrogation techniques? But I can go on about that. Just stop calling each other ignorant, read what we put here, and try to filter the good points from the bad and move on.

Posted by: Samyra at May 14, 2004 10:56 AM

Nothing is beyond belief. We (the U.S.) have become the hated/feared bullies of the world, sucking up much more that our share of the worlds oil and everything else. The current administration has polarized the country more than ever before and squandered the sympathy the rest of the world had for us after 9/11. To dismiss the thought that this conveniently timed, fishy smelling, grainy video might have been conjured up by our government is just being blind, like the person waiting for jehovah to take down satan. Fine, you can get those flimsy plastic lawn chairs anywhere and you can get white shoes anywhere and religious people don't always follow all the laws of their religion and there's more than one yellow wall in the world...all that doesn't prove that we (and it is us they're representing here) didn't produce this (possibly faked [no blood?]) video. I know I wouldn't put it past us.

Posted by: 'merkin at May 14, 2004 10:58 AM

"...so you can meet up for some Chai and biscuits avec Baba Ganoush!"

Chai's too good for that bastard, try Earl Grey.

Posted by: Samyra at May 14, 2004 11:00 AM

Boone: Ask Prince Turki al-Faisal if you want to know where UBL is at.

And your descriptions of you and your related parties fails to disqualify you from a potential "racist" status. Don't confuse my polemic for polished thought.

Posted by: Loving and Hating Mark Perkel at May 14, 2004 11:01 AM

My first thought when seeing stills from the video:
"What's with the ski masks and orange jumpsuit?"

Today I read an editorial that stated Berg's body was found Saturday, May 9, 2004 - but the date on the video is Monday, May 11, 2004.

Whatever the facts are regarding the death of Berg, I don't think we're being fed "the whole truth and nothing but the truth" by Bush&Co and their media whores. (Their track record of deceptive lies precedes them...)

Posted by: sailor at May 14, 2004 11:02 AM

Well said, samyra. As in any murder investigation, all possibilities ought to be explored no matter how bizarre or outlandish they may seem. The lack of blood is most definitely a very disturbing fact. What did they do? Go take showers before presenting Nick's head to the camera? Scrub the walls, floors and ceiling? I'm off to work in the gardens, do have a splendid day all and hopefully this mystery will be solved soon.

Posted by: Boone at May 14, 2004 11:05 AM

You are right on target. You know you are. Now you have to watch over your shoulder. Same white chair. Berg's dad knows who had his own son. I haven't read your blog but Michael Moore is on to 9-11 too. Scarey now will be to see what happens to those who "know."

Here's a post I put elsewhere this morning before reading your "OMG!"

[UH OH] Berg sitting in same white chairs seen in Abu Ghraib

Here is the article about it from Citizens for Legitimate Government:
http://legitgov.org/index.html#breaking_news

and here is the actual - ON MSNBC - picture they use for the comparison:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930

(Better check that out quick because as soon as this federally licenced media realizes what they've done they will take the picture down I'm sure.}

Executioner wore gold ring - forbidden by Islam: Behind the Masks -- Clues From Graphic Tape of Beheading Could Help Identify Killers (ABCNEWS.com)
http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=9529&TagID=2

ALSO: IN THE MAINSTREAM PRESS!!!!

E-mail from consul says Berg was in U.S. military's hands
Diplomat disputed government account --A U.S. diplomatic official in Iraq told the family of slain American Nicholas Berg in early April that he was being detained by the U.S. military, according to e-mails provided by the family Thursday...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-05-13-berg-email_x.htm

Text of e-mails from U.S. consular officer in Baghdad to Berg family Text of e-mails from Beth A. Payne, a U.S. consular officer in Baghdad, to members of the family of Nicholas Berg. Copies of the e- mails were provided to The Associated Press by the Berg family...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-05-13-emails-text_x.htm

MSNBC VIDEO:
U.S. intelligence linked to abuse May 13: At least four of the people in the photograph provided by Spc. Charles A. Graner Jr.'s attorney were identified as U.S. military intelligence officers. NBC's Jim Miklaszewski reports.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?S19E22C48
OR
http://msnvideo.msn.com/video/default.aspx?setcp=B&prepend=733cc922- bd01-4a47-8aa6-4936738b38e4&undock=true

Posted by: Jenny Miller at May 14, 2004 11:19 AM

I'm not to shure what to think but the story of how N B was in custody and then released and wound up dead smells familiar. This is just like the way uppity blacks and civil rights activist were lynched in the jim crow south. They would be released after they lynch party was waiting on the door step.

Of course this would not fit the appearence that this happened in the AG prison. Unless he was released in front of witnesses to show " we let him go"

With our press we will never know the truth. To bad. I still have hope when I see sighns of our press waking up. Maybe this will be the last straw.

Posted by: weatherman at May 14, 2004 11:21 AM

LMAO! You're a friggin' lunatic, dude. Go outside and check for the black helicopters circling your home. Assuming you actually HAVE a home, that is. Oh. By the way. The man's name was Daniel Pearl, not "Richard" Pearl. Minor detail, but it speaks to your credibility, or lack thereof.

Posted by: JOEY BOOTS at May 14, 2004 11:24 AM

weatherman said "With our press we will never know the truth."

What? The press doesn't have an intellectual property rights over the truth. They don't own it. It's not theirs. Get over your delusion bud. Look at this blogpost. This is just one blog, although Marc Perkel is pretty famous or at least should be, among THOUSANDS.

Then you say "To bad. I still have hope when I see sighns of our press waking up. Maybe this will be the last straw.".

You sound like the parent that finds a roach in their teen's room and then confronts them hoping this "will be the last time" until they ditch the habit. A support network, ie BLOGS and the Perkelator, require constant nagging, bickering and confrontation in order to get the Press to kick the habit of failing to tell the WHOLE STORY.

Posted by: Loving and Hating Mark Perkel at May 14, 2004 11:27 AM

There are alot of pictures coming out of Iraq. I for one would feel better if someone could come up with a picture of an ordinary Iraqi in a white plastic lawn chair, or an orange jump suit for that matter.

Posted by: I81U812 at May 14, 2004 11:34 AM

I have a chair just like that on my balcony. Maybe *I* did it! omgwtfirlstfukplzthxbbq

Posted by: The Mad Poster at May 14, 2004 11:36 AM

For me, the fat guys, the same chair, the bullet proof vests, all this don't mean shit.

But the orange jumpsuit says it all.

Posted by: sebastien at May 14, 2004 11:38 AM

Excellent points, especially the lack of blood, I would like to hear what a doctor has to say about this..

Posted by: Will at May 14, 2004 11:41 AM

I have that white chair too.

But seriously what bugged me the most about Berg was that he was sporting a Muslim style beard. That is a trimed or shaved mustache. When I saw the video I thought "oh a white muslim prisoner" From the articles I have read this Berg fella had some connection with the French brother who was charged for the 911 hijackings.

Was Berg a Muslim convert?

Posted by: hotdogboy at May 14, 2004 11:41 AM

re above. It's not completely ridiculous to wonder what got covered up by the gov't re: 9-11.

There is some talk that the flight over PA- the let's roll flight- was shot down by US missiles. Look it up and judge for yourself.

Also- why did Bush fly the relatives of Bin Laden out of the US- when no one else was allowed to fly- to Saudi Arabia, even though the CIA wanted to question them?

How recently did the Bin Laden's dad divest himself from the Carlyle Group? It was over post 9-11 protest, but the Carlysle Group has made a killing off the war.

Look it up.

Posted by: moxie at May 14, 2004 11:42 AM

I looked at the beheading video. It was awful, and the awfullest part was that Berg SOUNDED SO SURPRISED. To me, it looked like he thought he was involved in some sort of act that shocked and, er, surprised him at the, ick, end.

Hey. Things are very weird right now.

Posted by: Bonny in NM at May 14, 2004 11:49 AM

this is only my second post here, i've never been much of a blogger. but, since bush took office, i spend as much time as i can spare reading the news. all the news. liberal, conservative, american, european, arabic, ect.
i am not a big conspiracy theory nut either. but, consider this: our government is currently run mainly by former executives from the oil and military industrial complex. business execs are interested in one thing the bottom line. profit.
now we have the highest oil prices in history and
not one but two ongoing wars. 16% of our economic growth last sector came from the defence industry and yet the military sector is only 4% of our overall economy. oils profits are at an all time high. you think they want these good times to end?
opinions on the war have been souring for the past couple of months. what better way could there be to keep prolonging the war than to first release graphic evidence that would inflame the arab world and then days later release even more graphic evidence to outrage the united states. perpetual warfare in the middle east. the folks at project for a new american century must be drooling. like i said, i've never benn much of a blogger. i am now.

Posted by: michael at May 14, 2004 11:52 AM

Rumsfeld and Sadaam, old buddies.

http://www.atrios.blogspot.com/2004_05_09_atrios_archive.html#108445180096579030

Posted by: moxie at May 14, 2004 11:55 AM

The point regarding the gold is that if someone is a fundementalist muslim why would they break a simple rule about gold?? If they are going to go as far as killing a westerner they are not going to break the rules of Islam. That guy was spying on Ghraib while on a telephone pole, got caught, nabbed and killed, and it was released as anti-islamic propoganda.

Posted by: Bringer at May 14, 2004 11:57 AM

this doesn't represent muslim..what our phrophet and god thought us...BTW only muslim guy is forbidden from using gold and silk. i'm a muslim and i admitt that most people that say they where muslim doesn't represent muslim. we all belived that we came from one root that is adam and eve we all human are the same it is proven in science.

Posted by: perut_macho at May 14, 2004 11:57 AM

US-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce

look that up to, and look at the board of directors. Kissinger and Cheney, snug as a bug.

And people who don't believe "Dear Leader" George Bush and his security team are capable of conspiricies- need to brush up on history.

google "kissinger" pipleline

Posted by: moxie at May 14, 2004 11:58 AM

If you watch public beheadings, you will note that the victim is always drugged to prevent any serious struggle. It is standard practice. They almost never offer any resistance.

Posted by: Mike at May 14, 2004 12:00 PM

Look at the two chairs. One at the prison, the other Berg is sitting on.

Are they both white? And plastic? Sure.

THEY MUST BE THE SAME CHAIR! As though NO other such chairs have EVERY been produced.

Hell, *I* had foru such Piece of Crap plastic chairs for my lawn at one stage. One big rain/wind storm and I was down to three.

This is "proof"? Not really, except of your gullibility.

Posted by: Same White Chair? at May 14, 2004 12:04 PM

I noticed some of the same points that you bring out in your article,Marc. I watched the clip of the video that showed the beheading. I did not observe Berg giving out a scream just before the beheading.

It was a gruesome thing to watch, but like you, Marcm=, I smelled fish from the beginning.

When they held Berg's head up in front of the camera, there was no blood dripping as would be if Berg was still alive at the time of the beheading. In reality, blood would have been gushing and spurting out, but there was no evidence of this in the video. This also pertains to the fact that the camera panned around and showed Berg's headless body and neck--again, there was no blood.

Due to the fact that our CIA performs "damage control" for the President is nothing new, I truly believe that the 5 guys behind those masks are American CIA. Either Berg was already dead duriing this video, or he was going along with the scheme, not knowing what they really had planned for him. However, the bloodless video tends to make me lean towards the "already dead" scenario.

In addition, there was an 11 hour gap on the video between Berg announcing who he was and the actual beheading. Let's face it folks, the Official story being put out does not jive with the evidence--just as the 9-11 Offical story does not jive with the evidence.

Could it be that all of us who are dubbed as Conspiracy Theorists could actually be the ones revealing the obvious truth? Don't insult my intelligence by labeling those who do research and come to obvious conclusions as Conspiracists.

Bush is the most dangerous regime on this planet. I can't wait until November, so we can get rid of this ruthless, fundamentalist, right-wing, neo-con bunch of criminals. The Bush Administration is not conservative by any means of the word. They are all madmen.

Posted by: Patty at May 14, 2004 12:05 PM

The question isn't "are there fat arabs?" -The question is "Are there fat Al Queda terrorists?" and every time I see a video or photo of Al Queda members, they're healthy men who train in the desert, and are not out of shape. Nor do they have white skin. Also, let's get this clear: These were "terrorists" not Iraqi soldiers. There's a difference. While there are certainly Iraqi terrorists, that doesn't mean all terrorists are Iraqis.

The thing that gives it away for me are the white tennis shoes (not a typical "terrorist" choice) and the body language of everyone involved. People from different cultures carry themselves in different ways, and these dudes all say "westerner" with their body language. Berg's body language says "Nothing bad will happen to me. I know these guys."

Posted by: Wilder K. Wight at May 14, 2004 12:07 PM

having read the comments above i can conclude that most of you know absolutely nothing about Iraq, Muslims, or the CIA and yet have very intense opinions about everything. kudos.

Posted by: Sean at May 14, 2004 12:07 PM

Then inform us, Sean. Tell us about them if you are such an expert. Post links.

Posted by: to shean at May 14, 2004 12:09 PM

But you can't refute that some people are getting really really rich from this war, and some of those people happen to be...the president's father, and Dick Cheney.

Posted by: mitty at May 14, 2004 12:12 PM

But you can't deny that some people are getting really really rich from this war, and some of those people happen to be...the president's father, and Dick Cheney.

And I think it's patriotic to ask questions. I think it's too early, and too suspicious to not wonder about the 'weirdness' of the video and details surrounding it.

You can't dismiss it out of hand, and say, nothing to see here. Think of the cultre in Iraq right now- the contractors from places like South Africa(who testified before the Truth and Rec Commission) and the symbolism of putting Negroponte in charge.

Posted by: mitty at May 14, 2004 12:14 PM

Liberal Logical Fallacy:

A simple search in google gives you this on the man with his hand up the back of the sock puppet:

Dick Cheney lobbied to lift sanctions against aid to Azerbaijan that were mandated under section 907 of the 1992 Freedom Support Act. The sanctions were imposed because of concerns about the ethnic cleansing of the Abkhazis. Cheney claimed the sanctions were the result only of groundless campaigning by the Armenian-American lobby. Then in 1997, Halliburton subsidiary Brown & Root bid on a major Caspian project from the Azerbaijan International Operating Company. (Halliburton 8-11-1997; Bruno and Vallette 2000; Flanders 10-06-2001; Cohn 8-10-2001)

It successfully lobbied, through the front organization U.S. Engage, against a 1997 bill intended to impose sanctions against foreign governments that persecute religious groups. (Bruno and Vallette 9-2000)

It supported the overturning of the Massachusetts Burma law that discouraged the state government from awarding contracts to companies doing business in Burma, a country notorious for its repressive government. Halliburton’s business interests in Burma and their complicity in major human rights violations - including the murder, torture, rape, forced labor and forced relocation of some of Burma’s indigenous populations - was documented in a 2000 report by EarthRights International. (Bruno and Vallette 9-2000)

Dick Cheney has lobbied heavily to prevent or eliminate federal laws that restrict Halliburton's ability to do business in Nigeria. (Bruno and Vallette 2000; Flanders 10-06-2001)

As the CEO of Halliburton, Dick Cheney lobbied relentlessly against the Iran-Libya Sanction Act of 1995 and tried to secure Halliburton an exemption. The oil company was very upset that it was being prevented from participating in the development of Iran's offshore oil fields and it wanted to take an active part in the construction of proposed pipelines that would carry Caspian Sea oil to the Persian Gulf. He argued that the “the unintended result of our policy toward Iran is to give Russia more leverage over the independent states of central Asia and the Caucusus by blocking export routes toward the south." (Bruno and Vallette 2000; Flanders 10-06-2001) http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/corporation/profiles/halliburton.html

Do you attempt to deny that Dick Cheney was CFO for Halliburton? Are you really this stupid to claim the current admin has no connections to big oil?

Posted by: Louise K at May 14, 2004 12:17 PM

And don't you think we have a right to know why a fellow america was held without a lawyer, with no apparent charges, couldn't contact his family? I want to know why?

In the words of Michael Berg, before this all came out and his son was still missing:

"I think a lot of people are fed up with the lack of civil rights this thing has caused," he said. "I don't think this administration is committed to democracy."

http://kid-oakland.dailykos.com/story/2004/5/11/16488/7347

That's why it's fishy. It's not the shoes, it's not the gold... it's the timing.

Posted by: tood at May 14, 2004 12:18 PM

Liberal Logical Fallacy:

President George Walker Bush (Republican) He is the son of the former President Bush. He and wife Laura have twin daughters, Barbara and Jenna. Born July 6, 1946, in New Haven, Connecticut, he grew up in Midland, Texas. He graduated from Yale in 1968, then returned to Texas and joined the Texas Air National Guard. Bush entered the oil business. Declining oil prices of the early 1980s took their toll on his company. He later sold his original stock shares and made a considerable profit. In 1978, he lost a race for the U.S. House of Representatives. He organized a group of wealthy investors (including himself) and arranged the purchase of the Texas Rangers. After an initial outlay of only $606,000, Bush walked away with nearly $15 million when the team sold in 1998. He was elected governor of Texas (1994-2000).
Unless otherwise noted, quotes are from White House press releases and may found at www.whitehouse.gov

What part of "Bush entered the oil business." don't you understand?

Posted by: Louise K at May 14, 2004 12:22 PM

Hey marc, the abu-gharib prison is more of a yellow ochre and the backgroung for poor Mr. Bergs death is yellow orange. Everyone who doubts your credibility said what I have to say. I have an assignment for you LEARN HOW TO FACT CHECK, CORRECTALY. The more spin you peddle, the more the CIA takes intrest in you.

Posted by: Rob at May 14, 2004 12:24 PM

Just a quick question. Has anyone seen my white plastic chair? I had 2 now I only have one. Now let's look at another possibility for all you comspiracy theorists out there. Is it possible that the Berg video could have been done by Iran ? We know Iran and Iraq have a rather nasty history and with the US doing what Iran has been wanting done since forever maybe just maybe it would make sense that Iran did the video in an attempt to help unify US resolve in the war. We left without doing the job once maybe they want us to finish the job this time. Sorry to throw that wwrench into things. Maybe just maybe it isn't the CIA or the FBI or Bush maybe it's the innocent bystander. How does that make you feel?

Posted by: Joe R at May 14, 2004 12:25 PM

the point about the white chair is, they are something AMEIRCANS would have. NOT iraqis. I dont think those chairs are as common in iraq as they are in Ameirca.

Posted by: rusty at May 14, 2004 12:25 PM

the point about the white chair is, they are something AMEIRCANS would have. NOT iraqis. I dont think those chairs are as common in iraq as they are in Ameirca.

Posted by: rusty at May 14, 2004 12:25 PM

I love how everyone's dwelling on the chair, the chair! and missing all the other points.

Like why he was detained.

Why he was on a right wing enemies list.

Why is he in an orange jumpsuit?

And why is he not bleeding again?

Forget about the chair for a minute, speculate on these other issues.

Posted by: riddim at May 14, 2004 12:27 PM

"the point about the white chair is, they are something AMEIRCANS would have. NOT iraqis. I dont think those chairs are as common in iraq as they are in Ameirca. "

That's right. See, 1) Iraq NEVER had white plastic chairs EVER before until the US MP's in the prison and 2) Therefore, the white plastic chair MUST be the same!

Couldn't be that Iraq did have white plastic chairs prior to 2003 and/or have made or shipped in such chairs post-2003.

No, couldn't be. Has to be a conspiracy. Call Mulder and Scully.

Posted by: Only Americans Have White Chairs at May 14, 2004 12:28 PM

I've heard to many people say they have army medic experience post not to wonder why the cartoid artery wouldn't gush. Am I an expert? No. Not by a long shot. But there's no blood dripping from his head.

Posted by: bloody at May 14, 2004 12:30 PM

Funny, I didn't realize there were actual "white chair experts". How do you know Iraq never had WHITE PLASTIC CHAIRS?

lol...

Posted by: Spire at May 14, 2004 12:32 PM

That white chair is the HOLY GRAIL of ALL white chairs. Don't you see it? NO ONE has a white plastic chair JUST like that one.

Damn people... Open your eyes!

Posted by: Spire at May 14, 2004 12:34 PM

Rumsfeld has history of fake news-making:

http://tinyurl.com/2wloe

The Federation of American Scientists has pointed to a startling revelation by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld that mainstream media have missed: In remarks during a recent press briefing, Rumsfeld suggested that though the controversial Office of Strategic Influence (OSI) no longer exists in name, its programs are still being carried out


Posted by: thinkaboutit at May 14, 2004 12:36 PM

OMFG! I have that chair also! Maybe they killed him in my apartment!

Posted by: superdude at May 14, 2004 12:40 PM

Also, for the curious, who want the oppurtunity to look beyond the friggin' chair:

Fishy Circumstances and Flawed Timelines Surround American's Beheading

http://www.infowars.com/print/iraq/berg.htm

Posted by: nannette at May 14, 2004 12:41 PM

that's a good one. go watch a cow being butchered.
now try some basic biology and physics. a cows brain is very much smaller than a humans and requires less blood. a human's heart must pump blood vertically to the brain not horizontilly. human's brain reaquires more blood flow than a cow. it's really all a matter of blood pressure.

Posted by: michael at May 14, 2004 12:41 PM

Im no forensic pathologist, but I believe if someone is laying down and you cut their head off, the blood just flows out, it doesnt spray like a fire hydrant. Now if they are are standing, there is much more pressure and this will happen. I've seen other videos like this, and the result was similar. Also, the same thing happened in the OJ Simpson case, which is why the killer wasn't drenched in blood.

Also, noone has mentioned the interest al-Zarqawi would have in the case if it wasn't him. Wouldn't he rather save face in the Arab world and say that it was an American cover up? If he could prove it was our government, it would be pandemonium for the Bush administration throughout the entire world. I dont see why he would sit there and let our government scapegoat him when he would gain so much more than just the revenge of one man's life. Just some thoughts.

Posted by: jason at May 14, 2004 12:41 PM

Hi.

I'm The Only White Plastic Chair In Iraq. My friends call me TOWPCIN.

Recently people have claimed to see me in photos of both Berg's death and in the prison. "TOWPCIN, it MUST be you!" they keep telling me.

Well as the ONLY white plastic chair in Iraq I'm here to tell you: it was not me. It was ANOTHER plastic chair, painted to look white.

Since as we ALL know there's only ONE WHITE PLASTIC CHAIR IN IRAQ, it just couldn't have been me.

Hope this clears things up.

Posted by: The Only White Chair In Iraq at May 14, 2004 12:49 PM

These guys do look like they're wearing costumes for the first time. Look at how the one on the right primps his clothes. Also note that one guy starts the process of cutting the neck then another guy finishes it. Their clothes look like they were just unpacked.

Posted by: da at May 14, 2004 12:50 PM

Hey Bush Boys! Since you're so convinced that the admin can do no wrong, can someone explain why the NSC turned down THREE SEPARATE ATTACK PLANS offered by the military to kill Zarqawi? The story's at http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4431601/ .

Liberal media's at it again eh? All lies to corrupt the resolve of our courageous leader.

As for whether the CIA had involvement in Berg's death, especially considering how fortunate the timing is w/r/t the prison abuse ... dittoheads: just imagine if Clinton was running the war (IMO, the CIA doesn't care who's at the helm) -- you'd be lapping it up.

At least some of us radicals hated the fuck out of Clinton too. You conservatives will do anything to suck Bush's dick.

Slurp Slurp!

Posted by: Conservative Apologists RULE at May 14, 2004 12:51 PM

"Hey Bush Boys! Since you're so convinced that the admin can do no wrong, can someone explain why the NSC turned down THREE SEPARATE ATTACK PLANS offered by the military to kill Zarqawi? "

Maybe the same reason that when Oliver North called for the assassination of Bin Laden and his lieutenants during the Iran-Contra hearings his request was denied. I dont know what it is but you can go get the transcripts for that and look it up. I am sure you'll enjoy sucking on that awhile. Have a nice day ! :)

Posted by: Joe R at May 14, 2004 12:55 PM

I'm certainly not one to assume that ANY government will manufacture atrocities to support a military effort. This story stinks in so many ways ... it's really impressive how right wing pussies rally around whoever Rove tells them to.

HOWEVER. Berg probably was killed in the interim time recorded on the tape. So what? That's just like the Pearl video, whose authenticity is never disputed. No spurting blood would seem to indicate already dead, in both videos.

The importance of the beheading is that it looks so shocking, not that it's a particularly easy or efficient way to take someone out. Same goes for the sound -- they probably did fake it. But that doesn't say anything to whether it's Zarqawi or the CIA (or both).

Posted by: stu at May 14, 2004 01:03 PM

correction: I'm certainly not one to assume that ANY government WON'T manufacture atrocities to support a military effort.

Posted by: stu at May 14, 2004 01:05 PM

Check out the video timestamp timeline:

13:26 - Berg states his and his father's name. Seated in plastic patio chair in orange jumpsuit. Shot taken from a side angle.

2:18 - Seated in same chair, same jumpsuit, shot taken from the front. Berg identifies his family and where he lives.

2:40 - Berg is seated quietly on the floor in front of five masked men. All the men seem very well fed and the exposed skin rather pale for a bunch of islamic terrorists on the run. The middle guy appears to be reading from two pages of prepared text, although he is continually turning the pages over and over and over, his actions making it completely impossible for anyone to read anything from those papers. The video is too grainy to tell if the guy's mouth is moving.

2:44 - The shot angle has not changed - the middle guy is still 'reading' from his papers. Wild screaming starts on the soundtrack, but none of the masked men seem to notice it, and Berg is still sitting very quietly in front of them. He has not moved at all during these four minutes.

2:45 - the middle guy draws a knife from his jacket, pushes Berg over, and the camera suddenly zooms into such a tight closeup that the screen goes black. The timestamp abruptly changes here.

13:45 - the camera pulls back to reveal Berg utterly motionless, being manhandled by the attackers. An assailant with a black mask draws the knife across the throat, while an assailant with a white mask sits on the motionless body. The soundtrack has several people shouting "allahu akbar", but the opinion of native Iraqi speakers who have heard it is that the accents are NOT Iraqui, more likely arabic or arabic as second language.

13:46 - screaming escalates on the soundtrack yet the windpipe has quite clearly already been completely severed by the knife-weilding assailant with the Black Mask, the head being connected only by the spine. No screaming is physically possible at that point, yet it mysteriously continues, much the way it started. White Mask assailant still stitting on the motionless body, doing nothing.

13:47 - There is another in/out camera zoom and suddenly it is the White Mask assailant, not the Black Mask one, that steps away from the body, knife in hand, holding the head aloft. No blood anywhere. At this point, the timestamp and the camera angle abruptly change again.

2:41 - Berg's head held aloft by White Mask, different angle, no blood. Curious - what day is this? As previously noted, during the 2:40 through 2:44 period, Berg could be seen alive, seated quietly in front of his captors as they 'read' their statement.

13:48 - timestamp and shot abruptly change again. Now we get shot of head resting on top of the prone body, with a zoom on the body's severed neck. Everything is very clean, completely inconsistent with the forensic reality of decapitation.


This tape is, to put a very black humor spin on it, a 'headfake'.

Posted by: H Beale at May 14, 2004 01:26 PM

Joe R - why would Ollie North want to kill Osama bin Laden in the eighties? we were supporting ObL, much like we did saddam ... is it because he didn't like Iranians, who O.N. obviously loved so much?

Seriously, whah? I thought he was a loyal soldier for the reaganites.

Posted by: whah? at May 14, 2004 01:30 PM

Joe R said: "Maybe the same reason that when Oliver North called for the assassination of Bin Laden and his lieutenants during the Iran-Contra hearings his request was denied. I dont know what it is but you can go get the transcripts for that and look it up. I am sure you'll enjoy sucking on that awhile. Have a nice day ! :)"

That's a total fabrication, and proven false HERE--> http://www.snopes.com/rumors/north.htm

It's right up there with "Al Gore said he invented the Internet" and "Al Gore said he was the basis of Love Story." Just more neo-conservative nonsense masquerading as truth, that the public laps up in e-mail boxes without even checking the transcripts THEMSELVES. lol

Posted by: minch at May 14, 2004 01:34 PM

The official govt version now is that the consul that told the Bergs that their son was in US custody was mistaken.....

Posted by: silvalove at May 14, 2004 01:36 PM

Two words:

Mea Culpa!

Who stands to benefit?

We all know who and the timing could not be better. Like 9/11 and all other things in politics, it is planned.

As the greate Mr. FDR so eloquently stated, "Nothing in politics happens by chance. Whatever does happen, you can bet it was planned that way."

Support Mariani vs. Bush RICO Act lawsuit. It is one of our last hopes for justice.

Pawn X

Posted by: Pawn X at May 14, 2004 01:57 PM

Other than the fact you need to learn how to spell (so that your comments seem like they come from someone with more than a 3rd-grade education) I think you might be onto something. The whole thing seemed a bit staged to me from the start. Yes, he seems entirely too complacent for someone about to have his head removed. And, yes, it would be just like the Bushes (or their cronies) to stage something like this to "turn the tide" of public sentiment from the prison abuse story. Stranger things have happened.
However, the white chairs don't mean that much; they are ubiquitous, available just about anywhere. Need more information. You realize, of course, that if this was staged, we'll NEVER hear of it.

Posted by: Davis at May 14, 2004 01:57 PM

First of all my feeling and heart go out to the Berg family and friends, no matter what circumstances he was killed under they still lost him.
So here goes....
Chair-dumb
ring-dumb
shoes-dumb
walls-dumb
fat-dumb
vests-dumb
On to something:
-small amount of blood
-the fact that he was drugged
I noticed:
While reading the speaker's gestures and movements did not match those of the audio track, also he turns, what looks like 3 or 4 papers over 20 times while he, or recording, narrates. Tells me he is just trying to keep up with a recording. Don't know if it means anything, but odd.
Conclusion:
Berg handed over for execution to dudes in video by US(PRO-Bush)to take heat off of Prison abuse stuff so Bush wouldn't look bad for elections.
-or-
They just want us out of Iraq and they know that this sort of propogana would hurt or stop the bush re-election, and in turn end the occupation.
my 2cents

Posted by: bored-at-work at May 14, 2004 01:57 PM

One point, I think the orange suit he is wearing is not prison-issue, its some sort of silk,shiny material like for saris or dressing gowns, not the tough,non-reflective material that you see in the pics of Guantanamo etc.

What first struck me when I saw the video is that maybe the terrorists tried to find something orange to make it plain that they were humiliating the prisoner just as Guantanamo etc. humiliates the Arab prisoners. Maybe that's why he's wearing orange garb.

About the chair, the Middle East is full of cheap-shit chairs like that imported from Asia, I wouldn't say there's much in that, its just a coincidence I think.

About the terrorists being fat, nothing wrong with that, you've seen the prisoner pix too and they weren't skinny.

Posted by: John at May 14, 2004 01:57 PM

I didnt realize that white plastic lawn chairs were an abundant item in Iraqi cities and towns. They sure come in handy when Iraqis are mowing their lawns and want to sit down to have a cool glass of lemonade. Or when they are having barbaques for their terrorist guests. Not to mention white plastic lawn chairs are more convenient than those folding chairs or wooden chairs than you usually find in the poor countries.

/sarcasm off

Posted by: mikexxx at May 14, 2004 02:00 PM

There's a 50% chance that it was done by Islamist terrorists, and a 50% chance that it was done by a group of bonkers CIA in that out-of-control nightmare that is Bush-War Iraq. Who's to tell? Regardless of who killed Nick Berg, the entire planet is going to pay for a good long time to come because of the warmongering religious nut in the White House. Militant, terroristic Islamists could have been controlled, sequestered, marginalized--whatever--by an intelligent policy of international cooperation promulgated by a hard-working, perceptive, engaged president who took seriously his responsibility to future generations of humans. (Remember Bush saying "History? Who Cares? We'll all be dead"?) Instead, we got Bush and his oily apocalyptic fantasies. Nice going, repugs!

Posted by: Vasta Simka at May 14, 2004 02:00 PM

To All: To the logical and intelligent, it's pretty obvious this is a retaliatory PsyOp carried out by Agents (either FBI, CIA, former or current military special forces, hired assassains, etc.--in short, anyone who is desensitized to murdering other humans) financially connected to the Corporatist Monolith predominant in the American Ruling Class structure, best symbolized by the Bechtel Group.

The Corporatist Monolith's main antagonists are the International Financier Monolith, which, in America, is best represented by the Rothschild-controlled JPMorganChase investment/commercial bank and the Rothschild-controlled Federal Reserve Banking System.

To make a long story short (the subtleties go much deeper), the machinations are as follows:

1) These forever competing Monoliths both agree on invading Iraq (one agreeing in the unenlightened ignorance of radicalized self-interest, the other agreeing while very much aware of the greater purposes behind the invasion) to secure both the geopolitical and the financial/economic advantages of controlling the country (which, fyi, is a prelude to a forthcoming, all-encompassing war in the Middle East to gain control of the region's natural resource wealth, mostly oil and opium),

2) The Financier Monolith, the more powerful of the two, according to its predetermined plans, desire to internationalize the control of Iraq, for reasons that are rather difficult to explain to those uninitiated with Ruling Class Behaviours and Desires.

3) The Corporatist Monolith has no desire to relinquish control of Iraq's advantageous resources to the Financier Class, so the Financier Class decides to use the motivators of worldwide public embarrasment, condemnation, and forthcoming legal prosecution via a media meme showcasing torturous illegalities committed by American soldiers in Iraq (torture which, fyi and rather unironically, was directed by the Financier Monolith's military intel forces within Abu Ghraib) to force the relinquishing process (and to direct Muslim rage worldwide at Israel and America, the purpose being a greater Mid-East war with America and Israel at the forefront of the assaults on oil-rich Muslim lands).

4) The Corporatist Class, in an effort to shift worldwide public opinion in a more favorable direction, murder Nicholas Berg (in a rather sloppy, unprofessonal manner, might I add), who was most likely a Financier-Controlled Mossad agent masquerading as an independent businessman. This murder had another purpose: it sends a message to the Financier Monolith, which is primarily composed of Secular Israelis in each country worldwide or agents of said Secular Israelis (like Don Stacey, the founder of Stonebridge Associates and the IAIB). The message from the Corporatist Monolith to the Financier Monolith is as follows: "We know what you're doing, we know who you are, and we know what you're trying to accomplish via your media apparatus. Stop it, or you all may suffer the fate of Mr. Berg."

And while these assertions may sound absurd and outlandish to some, their truths are all around you at all times and easily discerned if one ASKS HIMSELF OR HERSELF THE RIGHT QUESTIONS AND THINKS LOGICALLY AND INTELLIGENTLY ABOUT THE ANSWERS AT WHICH HE OR SHE ARRIVES!

Posted by: FrmrIntelAgnt at May 14, 2004 02:08 PM

Gotta appreciate a good conspiracy theory.

Here's what stands out in my mind.

Do you think that there could be more than one $6.00 plastic chair in Iraq?

How can anyone prove that that ring isn't made of another material other than gold? Brass? I work with many devout Muslims here at Microsoft and every one of them wears gold everyday.

If indeed this is some sort of CIA conspiracy, do you really believe that they are that stupid? Don't you think they'd do their homework before committing such an ungodly act that would be on display for the entire world to see?

The shit about him being dead already...don't think so. I watched the video a few times after reading this and noticed him move quite a few times during the reading of the document.

The blood spurting comments are off too. The external jugular vein runs just under the skin in your neck. They would be the first to be cut during that sort of thing. As many in the medical profession can tell you, veins don't actually "spurt" blood. It would be more of a continuous flow of blood rather than rhythmic "spurting". There are arteries in the neck that are capable of this "spurting" of blood, but they are much deeper with more tissue around them that would prevent this effect with such a slow cut. In the case of a fast cut like the swift blow provided by a guillotine, you are much more likely to see the spurting of blood from the neck. The slow cut allows the muscles around the arteries to contract and slow the blood flow as a measure of defense.

Posted by: BS at May 14, 2004 02:11 PM

Nimrod???
Did you know......Nimrod is a Babylonian name. Where was Babylon? Currently, it is called Iraq. The cradle of civilization. What does the name Nimrod mean? In the Babylonian language it meant "Mighty Hunter".

Posted by: Inanna at May 14, 2004 02:17 PM

Hey vasta, it must be nice to come to my country and run rampant with the first amendment. you should move to canada or better yet back to the cave you came from in the first place. the un-nited nations that you so criptically mention is crooked and obsolete. Human rights don't include american citizens (Blackwater) within this group on the forefront of "democracy" (I mean passive socalism) why dont you provide a sorce for your quote next time...to add to that the president actually has little control over American foreign policy, so place blame on the entire system, if you find them at fault (I don't)

Posted by: Rob at May 14, 2004 02:28 PM

al-Zarqawi is supposed to only have one leg. When did al-Zarqawi grow the new leg?

Posted by: Phelix at May 14, 2004 02:29 PM

Uh, those aren't bulletproof vests.
They're AK "chest rigs".
Canvas or nylon magazine carriers. AK47

Posted by: MMMurphy at May 14, 2004 02:32 PM

Minch-I stand corrected. Now I at least know where the hell I heard that. Abu Nidal. Must remember that. Either way sure the videos is false but who produced it. I still would like th think the CIA would be a bit better.

Posted by: Joe R at May 14, 2004 02:38 PM

I agree .. too many inconsistencies in the video.

btw .. can anyone tell me why captured Iraqis are called prisoners and captured everything else is a hostage?

dg

Posted by: DigitalGaia at May 14, 2004 02:51 PM

"It's the Same Chair" article of Marc Perkel Rantz has been linked to the Information Times -- http://www.InformationTimes.com -- and now it's being read by millions of people across the world.

Also Read: http://www.InfoTimes.net

The Terrible and Strange Death of Nick Berg
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/may2004/berg-m14.shtml

Berg's Father and Firm Were on a Right-Wing 'Enemies' List
http://www.breakfornews.com/NickBergEnemiesList.htm

Nick Berg Decapitation Video Declared "a Fraud" by Medical Doctor
http://www.aztlan.net/fake_video.htm

Berg Died for Bush, Rumsfeld 'Sins' - Father
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0513-07.htm

Nick Berg Beheading Web Links
http://www.rense.com/Datapages/bergdat.htm

Posted by: Free Press Network at May 14, 2004 02:54 PM

Is it worse to be cluster bombed or to be beheaded?

Or does it depend on how brown you are?

Posted by: melior at May 14, 2004 03:02 PM

Interesting how the author's critics are attacking his credibility based on the possibility of coinicidence with the white chair, but almost no one will touch the orange suit he's wearing.

Posted by: Doctor_r at May 14, 2004 03:04 PM

Executioner wore gold ring - forbidden by Islam-------------

Whether it is against Islam or not is really irrelevant. Most Muslims are condemning the whole act and saying it goes against Islam. That's why they are called EXTREMISTS! Many of the 9/11 hijackers rented porn videos in the days preceding 9/11. Clearly they are not devout Muslims but EXTREMISTS. There's a difference.

Posted by: kyle at May 14, 2004 03:12 PM

Three yeards later, Bush hasn't found Osama Bin Laden.

But he did get Martha Stewart.

I don't mind the fact that Bush is a liar, and is easily the worst president in the history of this country...with the possible exception of Benjamin Harrison.

What I mind is that he's a bad liar. An incompetent liar. And that makes hime the worst leader in the history of the world.

Posted by: shady at May 14, 2004 03:14 PM

I'll touch the suits!

They are clearly different suits. In the pic at the bottom (of the US soldiers with the prisoner), the suit is short sleeve, it is a v-neck and it fits pretty tight. In the Berg pics, the sleeves are 3/4 sleeves, very loose, the neck has a button at the top (which is unbuttoned), and the suit looks shiny (like it's made of satin or silk type material). I'm pretty sure orange jumpsuits are made of cotton.

Posted by: K. at May 14, 2004 03:15 PM

BTW, I have two of those chairs sitting on my deck!

Posted by: K. at May 14, 2004 03:17 PM

i dont know anything about gold but i do know about photography and if they were using a low quality camera indoors white can develope a yellow tint because of the colour temperature indoor lighting.
barry

Posted by: barry_s at May 14, 2004 03:25 PM

OK Doc, I'll take on the orange suit. Take a close look, it's shiny. Made out of satin or some polyester blend. Real prison jumpsuits are cotton, not shiny, and darker. Also, the one Berg is wearing looks homemade, the cut is weird. Wherever the suit came from, it's not the same ones put on prisoners by the U.S.

Posted by: Skillzy at May 14, 2004 03:30 PM

Found that darn chair again....

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040505/capt.bag11105051711.iraq__bag111.jpg
Iraqi men watch in a cafe in downtown Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites), Wednesday, May 5, 2004 U.S. President's Bush interview on Arab television chanel Al Jazeera. Bush said in the interview that the treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison was 'abhorrent' and does not represent 'the America that I know.' (AP Photo/Khalid Mohammed)

Posted by: Blotto at May 14, 2004 03:38 PM

FOCK YOU, YOU FUTHER MUCKER

Posted by: Futher Mucker at May 14, 2004 03:47 PM

SUCK MY HAIRY SCHWETTY BALLS

Posted by: SUCK MY BALLS at May 14, 2004 03:51 PM

Im not a fan of Bush, nor do i think that us going into Iraq was a good thing, but we're there and our soldiers are fighting to stay alive as well as come home safely. This video does nothing but piss me off id like to string up everysingle ARAB and have a bonfire with their corpses, and fuck if they didnt do it. we shoudl pull our boys from iraq and nuke it fuck it just start over. all this religion shit is fuckin nuts. as long as everyone beielves there is a god and does what is right to each other then they will live eternally with god all religions are faked and made up by those who "think" this is how god wants them to live. I see no reason why we should even continue with this mess in the middle east. If they want a war lets give it to them and make them wish theyd never even opened their brown mouths. cuz theyll catch a bullet in it one day. peace and harmony and i know i sound contradicting but to b honest i dont care wut u think. as far as the "theory" that this guy has posted well more ppl might beilive it if you hadnt used some stupid ass examples to prove ur point. it's all one big cluster fuck which ends up leavin innocents dead. i say kill them all and let whichever god they pray to sort em all out.

Posted by: pissedoffwhitey at May 14, 2004 03:55 PM

Bullshit

Posted by: Jason D- at May 14, 2004 03:57 PM

Hey Rob! Here is one of over twenty thousand google links for "bush we'll all be dead woodward." It's been all over the news, dude. Where you been?

http://memes.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2671&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

Sorry to say it, bud, but folks are plain mad who continue to cheer and support Bush in the face of the disaster he and his hooligans have perpetrated on this fine country. Right-wingers and their religiously insane brethren (of all denominations) are dangerous cultists who cannot wait to force everyone to drink the poisoned Kool-Aid of Armageddon. As ol' Bartcop sez: "Koresh Help Us!"

Oh, and I use an alias because I don't feel like having freepers track me down and try to behead me for expressing my opinion. Have an ice day!

Posted by: Vasta Simka at May 14, 2004 04:01 PM

Details from photo analysis: 5 persons in back from left to right (camera tilted slightly L-R):

Person 1: male, 5ft 10in to 6 ft 1in tall,
standing in parade rest military position, possibly black (do "invert colors" his skin around his eyes is as dark as Berg's skin is light) wearing ammo vest

Person 2: male, 6ft to 6ft 4in tallest and heaviest, also
standing in military guard position wearing ammo vest

Person 3: male, 5ft 10in to 6ft tall, clowning gesture

Person 4: unk sex 5ft 6in to 5ft 9in tall, shortest and thinnest person, wearing ammo vest?

Person 5: male 5ft 8in to 5ft 10in tall, white, heavyset, civilian posture, possibly wearing glasses, wearing ammo vest

Berg -- in a pose of patience, not fear, wearing prison issue basic orange


BTW, the CIA's determination of the identity of one of the killers is REALLY as suspicious as the orange jumpsuit


Conclusion? a detailed forensic examination of the pictures/video by a lab will likely show this to be a staged event.

Posted by: Fat Tony at May 14, 2004 04:12 PM

Hey all you neocons-if Bush is re-elected, I will leave the country, you can keep it. This is not the America I love.
Anyway, when watching the video, I kept my eye on the (victim). I saw him blink twice and move his head once. The (terrorists) are jostling, shifting their weight, moving their guns, but hardly any movement from the (victim).
My overall impression is something ain't right and I have no faith that our government is being truthful.

Posted by: gumby at May 14, 2004 04:18 PM

Um, excuse me you utter fools who doubt the authenticity of this killing, or think it's some kind of Mossad conspiracy. What do you mean there is no blood? Look a bit more carefully, and you'll see there are copious amounts of it all over the floor. What do you mean no struggle? Look more carefully, and you'll see Nick bucking and struggling several times as his throat is carved, until he loses consciousness. The sounds of someone's throat being severed are plain to hear. The fact that about 4 people are holding him down, might answer your silly question about his lack of movement. His mouth is opening several times in agony as he's unable to yell out anymore. This was not a faked killing at all. It was real and brutal. A bunch of renegade nutters have commited this atrocity. Chechyan rebels or similar groups flooding into Iraq were most probably the culprits here. Hence, the white hands you lot are oh so concerned about. Not all Muslims have to have brown skin or skinny hands for pity's sake. Bunch of ninnys. As for the plastic chair thing. I wont even bother, because you already know the answer. It's the most absurd theory i've ever heard. Many people live in utter denial about things that are so horrific. Their mind creates conspiracy to hide their shock. Denial is prevelant in certain countries. Particulary in the United States.

Posted by: Idiocy Cleaner at May 14, 2004 04:18 PM

As for the wall/floor colour thing, it all depends on the camera you're using. I have a lot of experience with directing films and vides and you can give me two completely different shades of colour, and all it takes is a slightly different white-balance to get pretty much the exact same colour. Without good experience of different camera equipment, you cannot really make assumptions about wall colourings etc.

Posted by: James Waring at May 14, 2004 04:22 PM

"As to can see on terrist 2, 4, and 5 - the BULLET PROOF VESTS. American MPs wear them all the time. To them it's like putting on their underwear. hey wear them so that if a prisoner tries to make a knife and stab them in the heart - they are protected." Do some research on ballistic vests or "bullet proof" a ballistic vest won't stop an edged weapon thats the reason they make "ballistic" and "Non-Ballistic vests" for law enforcement agents, and as for the vest they do have on they are just equipment vests for the gear such as magazines and so on. If you are going to paste something such as this on the internet for millions to see try having at least a few facts straight wil ya.

Posted by: Tim at May 14, 2004 04:24 PM

hey vasta, if there are over 20,000 google links to that "bit o spin" than why did you use a link to an article by an anonmyous author? You're just playing ya self kid.

Posted by: Rob at May 14, 2004 04:32 PM

You mention many different seemingly inconsistencies in this article. However, as I read the article, I've noticed that you have no expertise nor even a hint of legitimacy in your claims. You claim the guy doesn't sound like Arabic was his first language (as if that would prove anything), yet you cite no experience nor expertise in recognizing such details, much less whether or not you understand Arabic at all.

As for the chair, who is to say they don't have chairs like that over there? Who? Have you been there? Plastic patio furniture like that is so incredibly commonplace that it doesn't not raise my eyebrow one bit. Who's to say they didn't steal it from some tourist's RV?

This is just one big conspiracy rant that has just as much validity as the video itself. Though there have been reports of the man's family greiving and whatnot, but most likely that's just unsubstantiated rubbish as well.

Where is the proof? I neither believe, nor disblieve the video. It is what it is, because I have no reason to either believe its real, nor that it is completely false. There's no proof either way, and your article doesn't lead to any solid conclusions.

Posted by: Brad at May 14, 2004 04:33 PM

That poor old GOP dog must be dizzy to the point of nausea from the amount of wagging he is being subjected to - I do not know by whom Nick Berg was decapitated - as a matter of fact - I am not even certain that he was actually decapitated - but it should not be hard to CSI those tapes into a standstill and find out who, what and when. The why - for me - is getting more and more obvious. If this man is indeed dead then his murderers need to be brought to answer - but I too noticed how calm he was in the photo right before the knife fell. It did not make sense. Daniel Pearl looked terrified - his body language said it all. At this point in our recent history I am surprised by very little - look how the election was "won". It all started in Florida in 2000. As a resident of California - I can tell you this - Florida has many, many more nuts than we do - hard as that may be to believe.

Posted by: chloe ross at May 14, 2004 04:41 PM

Oh, and you're right about one thing:

"Marc Perkel is the most dangerous mind on the internet."

Posted by: DUB at May 14, 2004 04:41 PM

Do you think that there are people so hipnotised by Bush( i mena peole, I mena american, that could have done this?? I just cant believe that any sodiers would have followed orders to kill an maericvan like that. It just can't be.

Posted by: dave at May 14, 2004 04:41 PM

I think it was all a huge prank by students in Iraq. That would have to be my hope if that was my son. Hoping he was okay, sitting in a house down there, smoking herb with them. Maybe he hates America for doing what they have done to them in the past. But, maybe.. just maybe, its all a huge prank, to rile the people of america. People are hating the CIA for possibly doing this, people hate iraq because of the possible chance they did it, it was probably a prank to make both sides hate eachother more. Thats my two cents. :>

Posted by: xith at May 14, 2004 04:43 PM

Funny, you people who are urging us to believe in everything Bush says are the same people who would never believe Clinton. As if they're not both politicians, and thus both liars.

Posted by: Patriot at May 14, 2004 04:51 PM

I saw blood, or what appeared to be blood, pouring out of the man's neck as it was cut. It is an extremely poor quality video, but if you look closely, there is something dark that appears to be flowing onto the floor.

My brain wishes it could puke right now. The biggest question in my mind is: what are the odds that one seemingly unassuming man, amid so much chaos, would be picked up by the authorities (regardless of which), then released, then abducted by terrorists but there be no connection between the two occurrences?

Regardless, speculation is pointless because no matter what happened, it happened, and no matter who perpetrated this barbaric act, the question is: who will make the guilty party pay and HOW? Speculation is a fancy word for gossip, and too often these days we spoon-feed each other bullshit while the truth goes uncovered.

He spoke some Arabic. How could he have not understood what was coming? Why would they not tell him? They're terrorists. TERRORISTS. Why would they not get some sick satisfaction from terrorizing him, and for that matter, from knowing we watched him feel such terror? There are unanswered questions, but under the current administration I personally don't see the truth changing much of anything, really. Has it changed anything thus far?

VOTE. Not only for the presidential candidate of your choice, but for every single elected office in this country, and if they DON'T do the right thing, don't reward them with another term (not to mention a large paycheck, in most cases). One term should be the limit. They do the best they can, and they aren't distracted by shit like re-election, and it would put a damper on so much pandering and lobbying and ass-grabbing. WHY HAVE WE ALLOWED OUR PUBLIC SERVANTS TO STOP SERVING THE PUBLIC'S INTEREST? Because it's easier to sit and type and gossip and speculate. Everyone says "If I were the boss, I'd do this and that". Well you are. Would you keep these people on your payroll if it meant success or failure in a business setting? Then DUH...who do you think we pay to control our economy, our rights, our very LIVES?
VOTE. Make any difference you can, in any way you can. Don't let other people dictate your thoughts and ideas and beliefs. THINK.

Posted by: rednekkhikkchikk at May 14, 2004 04:56 PM

Oh, one more thing. You people bad mouthing other peoples opionions are completely out of line. No one knows what happened accept those who were there. Being mean to eachother about it isn't going to solve the problem, is it? No. So, taking what everyone thinks and putting into one huge bin might actually get us some where, you all have nice points, but don't hate on someone because they think something, even if they're not 100% right. So what, its what they believe, let it go. It's not like any of our actual imput will change anything, no matter how hard we think about this, it won't change. If he's dead, he's dead. The people who did it will not go forever unpunished. Even if they die, if there is a hell, they will go to it. Or whatever they believe in. But come on people, dont let the hate make you hate people. We gotta stick together, his family is the most hurt here, I know if I came here and read this, I wouldn't know how to react. My son is dead, and all these people are arguing and making rude comments about it. State you input and let it go. Bleh.

Posted by: xith at May 14, 2004 04:57 PM

Man whats wrong with you people...this guy isn't saying that he found the answers hes merely makign a statment of something that COULD be true and theres all these arseholes commin in here and badmouthing him for thinking diffrently....i laugh at those that are close minded on the issue rather than the one that thinks diffrently even if it does seem like a stretch....hes even stated that its a theroy not a fact! just like darwin stated that he only had a theroy that it wasn't factual yet its being taught in our school as if it were fact! lighten up eh? good job sir to your making people think diffrent....remember kids according to alot of people on here if you dont think mainstream you are stupid! ::rolls his eyes::

Posted by: Calbha at May 14, 2004 05:00 PM

As soon as I heard that Myers had verified the identity of the murderer, I knew this was bollocks. This was the guy who sat in his Pentagon office while the WTC towers were falling AND the Pentagon was being hit by a 'missle' (not my words, Rumsfeld's).

The timing of this video is too convenient. Who does this video serve the best? The Muslims, who finally are getting some respect - and all it took was some nasty torture photos of their Arab brothers, all at the hands of the Americans? OR the Bush Administration, who can now stop these photos from being made public 'cos Americans will be beheaded if they are shown?

Hmmm - I know what my common sense tells me - and it ain't serving the Muslims, that's for sure.

As for the gold ring - a definite no-no for Muslim men. Why would a Muslim leader of Al-Quaeda risk alienating his followers by committing a heinous sin for the sake of looking all bling bling? Same can be said for Atta - if he really was going to be a 'martyr' by crashing a plane into the WTC, would he really shame his family, and his status as a 'martyr' by hitting strip joints and leaving his ID for all to see the night before his entry into 'paradise'?

Maybe the CIA thinks we're all stupid, but we ain't.

Posted by: jimmytango at May 14, 2004 05:08 PM

ps-Who's to say he wrote all the e-mails his family believed they received from him? I mean, he DID allow someone (a person with terrorist ties at that) to use his computer. He was generous. Do you think that was an isolated incident?

People in power, no matter the country, will sometimes do anything to retain that power. My heart bleeds to think that this smart, generous man was sacrificed for political gain. Whether he was or wasn't, what have we become??

Posted by: rednekkhikkchikk at May 14, 2004 05:12 PM

I notice that all these *scared of the truth people are not questioning the things that are beyond the shadow of a doubt.

the government says the man wasn't in jail
his parents say he was
his parents filed a federal lawsuit to get him released
the man is clearly wearing a prison jumpsuit
you don't have to go any further than that to know that something stinks to high heaven about this story
but wait there is more
the chairs ARE the same
the walls ARE the same
the supposed killer HAS a prostetic leg
the person who did the killing does NOT

when did right become whatever your party says it is?

there are some vicious people in this community who care nothing for truth. you keep on doing what you're doing. put it out there.

Posted by: Someone at May 14, 2004 05:17 PM

Bush is completely incompetent when it comes to foreign policy, public speaking, fighting the war in Iraq, fighting the war on terror, running his torture chamber at Abu Ghraib, and connecting the intelligence dots....but everything runs without a hitch on the really big conspiracies like the Berg execution, Halliburton, stealing the 2000 election, etc. Is this resonating with you at all?

What's going to happen to your emotional health when you have to look back and realize that you've literally been wasting your time on meaningless BS that adds nothing to the debate at a time we really need healthy debate?

People like you ARE the problem. Quit trying to pull the next Pentagon Papers scoop and try putting on the logic hats, k?

Posted by: DUB at May 14, 2004 05:20 PM

I think your objections to the authenticity of the tape and the suspected executioners is thoughtful. I think the present government would do ANYTHING to remain in power. They are liars and have consistently told untruths throughtout the last 3 years. They are ruthless human beings, and that is a kind assessment. They stop at nothing and lying is the name of their game.
Any of you with relatives over there should really want the truth. Are they at death's door for nothing? think about it.

Posted by: mary at May 14, 2004 05:29 PM

Would an American civilian travel to Iraq at his own expense and wander around for weeks "looking for work"? Would the Iraqi police, under the thumb of the US occupation army, arrest a US citizen for no reason of their own volition?

Posted by: john at May 14, 2004 05:44 PM

Wait, is the Bush administration gonna tell us there are TWO white chairs in Iraq???????? Two chairs??? Both white???????? In the same country?????????? I aint buying it!!!!!!

Posted by: Rexmundi at May 14, 2004 05:54 PM

Not saying I actually believe this theory or not... just something I thought of on my way home from work.

I agree there is something very fishy going on with all of this. The jumpsuit...the demeanor of the killers and of Nick Berg.... the audio over-dub.... the lack of blood... the al-Zarqawi confusion (dead or alive? - leg or no leg?) and many more reasons.

However - I doubt the CIA or Mossad would be this messy.

But what if someone there at the prison panicked when the pictures and stories started to come out, and decided to stage the whole thing as
a distraction of some kind, perhaps thinking people would blame the media for putting out the stories in the first place.

So these guys (contractors?) get Nick and dupe him into thinking it's just an act of some kind, kill him, and send the film to the media.

The US govt. gets these images, knows they are fake, but realizes coming out with the real story is worse than allowing the fake story to play, no matter how screwed up it is.

As I said... I don't necessary believe it, but it fits with what I have seen so far.

Posted by: kendog at May 14, 2004 06:02 PM

Maybe plastic chairs and bullet proof vests and prison outfits are common in Iraq but where do five guys get ski masks in the middle east?

Posted by: Norma Jean at May 14, 2004 06:04 PM

There was a few things in the video that I found strange:

1. Check out the guy on the far right and the way he holds his AK. He keeps his trigger finger pointing down the side of the receiver out of the trigger guard like I was trained to do in the British Army and most western armies' soldiers are trained. That man had proper military training and not the usual hotch-potch that most Islamic "terrorists/freedom fighters/Mujahedeen" (delete as applicable) have had.

2. On commencing their attack on poor Mr. Berg, they shouted: "Takhbir!" and "Allahu Akhbar" with distinctly non-Arab/European voices and dialects. How do I know? I'm a European Muslim convert and I tend to speak Arabic in exactly the same way as it is not my mother tongue. However, the man giving the speech was a good arabic speaker and was probably from the middle east. On the weight/colour of the assailants - I just don't know and I wouldn't like to say. They aren't wearing vests but standard issue AK-47 magazine chest-rig webbing.

3. The editing of the tape seemed peculiar.

4. The lack of blood from the cutting of the neck seemed strangest of all and I should know as I've witnessed the traumatic severing of a person's head from their body in the past and the heart driven by masses of adrenalin through fear pumps the stuff all over the place. Perhaps, he was comatose before they killed him by drugging? Again it's hard to speculate but it seems very, very strange.

In conclusion,I would say that nothing in that video and around the Berg story is what it seems although we will probably never find out the real truth.

Posted by: Cybercat at May 14, 2004 06:08 PM

TIME TRAVELLING OR GRANDFATHER OR HIGHLANDER??? ??? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ?


http://noisia.members.easyspace.com/Hitler-Keitel-Goering-Borma.jpg

Posted by: noisia at May 14, 2004 06:11 PM

I have looked at all the claims you make, I don't see the same things you see. I have enlarged each picture & video clip, the simularities you make are just not there. Your attemp to link America to this act, is shamefull at least. But then so many people are trying to further their own agenda at the cost of the innocent. So why should you be ant different...
GOD BLESS AMERICA & PROTECT OUR TROOPS
Semper Fidelis
LNV USMC

Posted by: Lazaro Valdes at May 14, 2004 06:11 PM

A caveat- I haven't seen the whole thing- and don't want to.

Posted by: kendog at May 14, 2004 06:11 PM

Although I don't join in with your ridicule... that pic is pretty damn funny.

Posted by: kendog at May 14, 2004 06:14 PM

noisia-- Although I don't join in with your ridicule... that pic is pretty damn funny.

Posted by: kendog at May 14, 2004 06:15 PM

One more thing that I just had to say. The so called bullet proof vest are not bullet proof vest as you claim. They are merely ammunition pouch vest, the same that are seen being worn by UBL on almost all pics of him.

Posted by: Lazaro Valdes at May 14, 2004 06:15 PM

ENOUGH WITH THE FREAKIN WHITE CHAIR!!!!
Please stop with the stupid white wallmart chair!!! fine we get that all of U have the same infamous plastic mass produced chair, which (HAHA!!) makes u the potential killer... but before typing arrogant repetitive messages please consider that the Iraq embargo has lasted for over 10 years, so that makes it a little hard for the average native to go get one from the local "Wallmart"!!!!!!! To us it looks like the most common chair but not there!!!! They are not at all common in Bagdad, i was there for 2 weeks in New Years 2001(while my dad was working in the UN there), and trust me the country looks like it is frozen in time, and to be precise back in the seventies!! Everything from the furniture (in cafés, shops, and the hotel)to the cars made me feel like i was in an old film. People can't even find spare parts for their cars, they don't replace broken headlights or or even car windows, so please just using common sence.. how can u think that the white "modern" plastic chair been so common in Iraq? Please look at ur parents old pics from the seventies...do u see white plastic chairs everywhere??? So what make u possibly assume and claim with sooo much confidence that "they are all over the place"????
I do not think that the white plastic chair proves anything, cause i dont think the army brought some with them so if there is one of them there is certainly a few more, but i'm just really fed up reading over and over again the same sarcastic and stupidly arrogant comments!!
Now if ur interested i will tell u that the most common chairs there are made of iron legs and 2 slightly curved wood panels with no armrests (I hardly seen any of them elswhere) , and these chairs cost much cheaper to iraqis right now than importing the plastic chair from china or europe or whatever!!

Posted by: MIEL at May 14, 2004 06:21 PM

Fabulous! I’ve just sat and read every single opinion! Getting ones message across is the name of the game, and there are people out there willing to stop at nothing to do just that!

I’m saddened at the rigid belief some have in their political masters, but heartened at the high degree of insight many of you clearly have.

I pray to God and know that he will avenge poor Nick for this savagery and all it represents!

Fuck those greedy pigs and damn them all to hell!

TR

Posted by: T. at May 14, 2004 06:22 PM

spell check marc... it's much more beilevaple.

Posted by: vinnydasquirrel at May 14, 2004 06:27 PM

Am I the only person who thinks the guy in the video looks nothing at all like Berg? I agree, the ring, fat guys, chair, colors, sneakers and "bulletproof vests" are incredibly weak, but some things are just too strange about this. I don't think the guy on the video looks like Berg. It might just be the lighting, but in the video, the guy's eyes are really dark (not to mention creepy as hell) and his jaw looks longer and more angular than Berg's. May be another crap argument, but the guy in the video has no glasses, and Berg usually is seen wearing glasses. I've read that a doctor has declared the video a fraud because of the lack of blood. I'll get the link up shortly.

Posted by: Skipp at May 14, 2004 06:27 PM

If they guy reading is trying so hard to conceal his identity, why does he say his name at the end of the tape?
And ... why was Berg caught with a koran before taken into US Custody
And ... Why did a 9/11 terror suspect have his password from school
And ... why did msnbc edit their web site and take out the part about the tower Berg worked on in Iraq and how it had been a hot spot for attacks on US convoys
And ... Why did the US Gov. say they found his body roadside "Monday (10th)" during a "routine patrol over the weekend" (8th and 9th) when the date on the tape is the 11th
And ... how did the US Gov. find a body, identify a decapitated body, inform next of kin, inform congree (just as Rumsfield was testifying I might add) and it made the news ... all in 1 day.

Posted by: concerned at May 14, 2004 06:28 PM

Apparently, Dear Marc thought the white chair was significant enough to make it the title of his screed. The point is that basing an accusation of this magnitude on a chair or the color of the walls or rings or weights is pretty weak. I'm not beholden to Bush. I want a full accounting and let the chips fall where they may. I don't mindlessly believe my government. But what I am reacting to is the lengths people will go out of a political hatred. Get some real evidence or stop reading bushisanazi.com and pick up a real book.

The hatred is just unreal.

Posted by: DUB at May 14, 2004 06:30 PM

I don't know if your observations hold any water, but there is much weirdness surrounding Nick Berg.
One thing is certain- the BushCo gang seem to have alot of answers, to Mr. Bergs final days. When crackpot Pennsylvania senator Rick Sanatorom announces that he knows for sure that al-Zarqawi killed Nick Berg you can bet the ranch he's muttering 100% bullshit. John Ashcroft crawled out of his spiderhole to announce that Berg was in Iraqi custody not U.S. which can be quickly interpeted to mean he was in U.S. custody.
We have learned the hard way that team Bush isn't real swift in gathering intelligence & it is reasonable to expect that fiquring out who killed Nick Berg would take them three to five years, not two days. Let the eagle soar.

Posted by: BrainMedicine at May 14, 2004 06:32 PM

About the lack of blood and the calmness...I'm sure there are drugs that could drop the blood pressure sufficiently, and relax you as well.

On the other hand, even Osama Bin Laden doesn't have a two-camera crew. From the stills, those guys definitely look like poseurs. Why cover the face but give identity? Also a good point. Continuing on, why have more than one or two guys standing behind Berg? Are they the Monkees? The Usual Suspects? The Superfriends?

I'm in the middle, but I'll need harder proof before I buy the conspiracy theory.

Posted by: jess at May 14, 2004 06:35 PM

Hey Hey its us!

Posted by: The Monkees at May 14, 2004 06:42 PM

that's crazy...i have one thing to add to what you have stated...have you noticed that the "iraqi" reading the script is reading it from left to right? arabic is read from right to left...this so called "iraqi" must not know how to read his own language...also, the way he flips the pages is the way of an english reading person because he flips the pages from right to left...now, if he were actually reading in arabic, he would be flipping the page from left to right...and as it is shown in the video, he realizes that he did it wrong and flips the same page again then proceeds with his speech...wouldn't that mean he was reading from the same page as before? i think this is a truly fucked up act that the government has committed and i think that they should at least admit what they did to that poor man

Posted by: kari at May 14, 2004 06:48 PM

i am against the war and the bush administration, and i think the inconsistencies in the video make its authenticity questionable as well, --but-- if this video was in fact a fake done to unite americans and have them support the war once more, why would the executioner have stated that they offered to free the victim in exchange for the Abu Ghraib prisoners but that the coalition authorities refused. why would the us want to make themselves look bad by saying this???

Posted by: sandra at May 14, 2004 06:49 PM

OKAY LOOK, I'm not necessarily buying Marc's well crafted conspiracy theory, but on the other hand, it was just SOOOOOooo INTERESTING that this tape pops up with fantastic convenience just when Bush, Rumsfeld & Co. were up against it vis a vis the prison abuse. And of course it HAS had the effect of distracting from the Abu Ghraib crap, and indeed, people outraged about the abuse are now defused of their outrage because of the heinous murder. Would such a murder be worth it to the Bushies? A horribly cynical question, like suggesting these guys would've allowed 9/11 to happen - i.e., "a Pearl Harbor event" the neo-cons felt was needed to enable them to invade Iraq. Hmmm.
The miraculous appearance of a "weapon of mass distraction" has happened time and again with this administration: SOMETHING happens that is just so damn NIFTY. October surprise coming? Oh yeah. Depend on it.
But admittedly, the Wal-Mart chair and the orange jump suit is an interesting bit of deduction. Not buying the gold thing for reasons stated. Can't comment on Berg's apparent tranquility.
PS Would that it was Richard Perle, and not Daniel Pearl, in that predicament. That's right, I don't like Perle.

Posted by: Robert Miles at May 14, 2004 06:49 PM

Look closely, the reader of the prepared statement in the Berg video wears a black hood and weilds the knife, does the cutting.... then, with knife in hand, stands up and hoists Mr. Berg's head, with a white hood on. Why would such a shocking and crude video account of such a gruesome murder require slight of hand editing?

Posted by: mojo at May 14, 2004 06:49 PM

No one is talking about how the video was delivered to the media. From what we've heard it was on a "al-quaeda website".

Usually terrorists send tapes to al-jazeera, no? And where is that famous site?


One final thing. I am really disgusted at the verbal abuse and violence from the postings from "conservatives". Why do they need to be so aggressive?

Posted by: Pete at May 14, 2004 06:50 PM

One more thing: A number of years ago, I remember a hockey goalie in the NHL whose throat was slit by a player's skate (I think he was with the buffalo sabres).

God was there blood all over the place! They saved the goalie because the team doctor could pinch the artery and they rushed him to hospital.

So yes, there is blood from cutting an artery. I've seen it LIVE on tv that day.

Posted by: pete at May 14, 2004 06:53 PM

To Guy Spy:

1. Aljazeera is not an Iraqi site.

2. Aljazeera has posted extensive reports on Nick Berg.

3. A number of Arab and Muslim leaders have condemned the murder of Nick Berg.

As for the conspiracy theories: Some people are making mountains out of molehills. (I would be surprised if there were only one white resin chair in Iraq, for instance.) On the other hand, some things about this video don't add up. That doesn't mean the administration is perpetrating a fraud, necessarily, it just means we're not being told the whole truth. Maybe it's Muslim fundamentalists who are attempting to mislead us about something. But I think it's a good idea to try to get to the truth of the matter, whatever it might be.

Posted by: Gorm at May 14, 2004 06:55 PM

"So yes, there is blood from cutting an artery. I've seen it LIVE on tv that day."
Arteries close to the heart, like the carotid, can expel blood several feet with each heartbeat, the heart itself moves about 8 ounces of blood per beat.

Posted by: mojo at May 14, 2004 06:58 PM

I have seen the video a dozen times. I found the question in the clock. The clock changes from public time, to military time, and back to public time. What gives???

Posted by: ex-FREEPER at May 14, 2004 07:04 PM

I'm compelled to believe the period of time from the begining of the prepared speech reading to the taking out of the knife and pulling Berg to the floor is a seperate event from the final close-up views of the actual beheading, with the unnecessary camera movement and loss of focus used as a seguay the final "scene". Not only because the timestamp jumps, but because it's a perfect opportunity to bring in the cadaver. The 1:13 minute jump from a black-hooded figure kneeling and cutting to a white-hooded figure rising with the knife and Berg's head in hand is puzzling. Is this white hooded figure the same person in the group of five with the assault rifle and of the tallest stature? Does this person in the final frame look the same as the tallest figure with the white hood?

Posted by: mojo at May 14, 2004 07:14 PM

Why are we all so quick to accept the official story as truth and immediately reject anything else that goes against it?

Are we that conditioned to quickly rely on "official sources" for the "official story" so that we can go back to watching crap like "American Idol", "Friends", "NBA Playoffs",...

It's all a freakin puppet show ala WWF with the dems on one side of the ring and the reps on the other, and we all just keep on ranting and raving for our favorite puppet to be victorious. It won't matter who wins this November the end result will be the same and THEIR NWO agenda will eventually be pushed anyway.

Let's face it, the deficit will never be paid off so this country owes somebody BIG, it's probably the same "Shadow Govt" that's pulling the strings.

Why are we are conditioned to so quickly ask "are you liberal or conservative"? We should we swing one way or another?

Anyway if voting was really meant to make a difference, it would've been outlawed years ago.

BTW, as for Bush and Kerry, which one is Skull and which one is Bones?

IT'S ALL STAGED, and this Berg deal is just another example of "Problem, Reaction, Solution" to further their cause because now we are all REACTING!!!

Don't be surprised if the Solution turns out to be nuclear in some way.

Posted by: Alxandro at May 14, 2004 07:25 PM

So I have been reading this thread for some time know and I have come to the conclusion that we still haven't hit the nail with the hammer. There are a lot of good theroy's here but are we on the right track?

If Berg was in Iraq and there is the question of "captivity" who were the detainers? Obviously the US Goverenment, but which department? Which branch? Is the NSA covering up something other than Abu Graib and potentialy manufactureing Bergs death?

While the rest of sit and post our conclusions what is the "real" story behind these acts?

Who is in control? Free your mind...

Posted by: blahblahBlackNSASheep at May 14, 2004 07:27 PM

So I have been reading this thread for some time know and I have come to the conclusion that we still haven't hit the nail with the hammer. There are a lot of good theroy's here but are we on the right track?

If Berg was in Iraq and there is the question of "captivity" who were the detainers? Obviously the US Goverenment, but which department? Which branch? Is the NSA covering up something other than Abu Graib and potentialy manufactureing Bergs death?

While the rest of sit and post our conclusions what is the "real" story behind these acts?

Who is in control? Free your mind...

Posted by: blahblahBlackNSASheep at May 14, 2004 07:27 PM

Did anybody notice that when the guy in the video was flipping pages, the person who was reading the script didn't hesitate? Usually when a person is reading a script, they stop while they flip the page.

Posted by: Vicky at May 14, 2004 07:36 PM

The wacko, out of synch video and audio assures a non-interpretable observation of the timing. Has anyone seen a version that is synchronized? audio with video?

Posted by: mojo at May 14, 2004 07:37 PM

I was thinking the chair thing was kind of weak. Perhaps that's the standard issue Iraqi plastic chair. But after looking a bit I found something curious.

"Located on the outskirts of Baghdad, Abu Ghraib, a symbol of torture and repression under Saddam Hussein, had been looted and stripped of everything of value. It was decrepit and falling apart. While renovations were under way, the military came up with a temporary alternative: Camp Cropper, a collection of tents and small buildings at the Baghdad airport."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001923795_conditions09.html

If the place was looted, wouldn't the US have had to bring it's own chairs?

Posted by: confused at May 14, 2004 07:42 PM

The bulk of Perkel's analysis doesn't stand up to much scrutiny. But that's how they get you. The lob out a few things that are true, in hopes that it get buried in the horseshit, which they know will be dismissed. Perkel is obviously a CIA asset.

Posted by: mrj at May 14, 2004 07:49 PM

RE:Crackle's comment:If they want a war lets give it to them
Do you realized that our government has dropped the equivalent of the radiation of 250,000 Nagasaki bombs on Iraq? Not only are the people of Iraq walking dead but so are our troops over there. We have nuked Iraq to smithereens. Yes, lets bring our troops home, but they are walking dead also and it transfers to their families through illness and birth defects. Like you, I am sick of it too, but where were all these americans who are outraged by the Berg beheading when the US was financing bin Ladin and his troops were beheading Russian troops left and right?
You see it is all too little, too late. You can't snooze while the US is responsible for atrocities around the world and then be outraged when it hits home. So you see, Iraq is dead, you just have to be patient and wait for the poison to work.

Free

Posted by: Free at May 14, 2004 07:54 PM

I think if people are going to shoot down the conspiracy theories and call Marc an ass then you should at least cover all the bases. The chair, the gold ring, the shoes, the jump suit, the fat terrorists...etc, all good points but they can be easily argued against.

I haven't seen any of these same people really pick apart the more important wierdness of the lack of blood. Anybody who wants a good idea of the kind of spurting you should get, take a look at Clint Malarchuk getting his jugular sliced open - plenty of blood spurting there and he wasn't even beheaded.

What really gets me while watching this vid is that there are obviously two cameras being used here and some pretty nifty video editing. As you'll notice the time code in the corner jumps back and forth several times btw normal/army time. Perhaps this can explain the apparant lack of blood, having to kill him off camera before switching scenes? The video has been edited to appear to be continuous as the screams and the yells carry over uninterrupted across the different camera scenes. Which means the audio was edited independantly of the video. Why go through all that trouble and setup, why not just cut his head off in one take?

This whole scenario leaves alot of unanwered questions, and a slew of inconsistencies. Also, wasnt' al-Zarqawi reported dead and one-legged several months ago?

Posted by: jackson at May 14, 2004 07:54 PM

You guys need to get "spell-check" for your computers. Your arguments would be much more convincing if they were grammatical and spelled correctly.

Posted by: SuzieQ at May 14, 2004 07:58 PM

This video is a hoax. The latest in a very long line of feeble hoaxes being used to justify the outrageous Iraqi debacle.

Posted by: Carl Wernerhoff at May 14, 2004 08:02 PM

Did anyone else notice the green military-like jumpsuit on the right-side of the film during the cutting? There may even be a hint of a patch on the left arm of the suit, but I can't pause the video to be sure... curious.

Posted by: hawkeye at May 14, 2004 08:04 PM

We're all is really big trouble!

Posted by: Sergi at May 14, 2004 08:10 PM

Btw, when I said I hardly know arabic...

1. I'm a Bosniak (Bosnian muslim)
2. I am in high school
3. I'm not heavily religous

Posted by: Rezim at May 14, 2004 08:19 PM

Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:
Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) forbade (men) to wear gold rings.
Hadith number in Sahih Muslim [Arabic only]: 3896


A GOOGLE SEARCH ASSHOLE! I am sick of you folks trying to defend this BS! It is time to REALLY fight back! I have been quiet for YEARS! Show me something. any of you have intelligence experience? LET'S DO IT! You KNOW WHAT I MEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: j at May 14, 2004 08:19 PM

Re: the indecisive jackass 2 comments above me

Sorry, I forgot the fat terrorists.... have you not seen iragis on television? Americans are not the only ones who are well fed. Especially considering that this terrorist organization obviously has considerable social power to get away with posting such crimes on a website. They can probably afford nurishment.

As for the blood, I saw at least a gallon on the floor. And the spurting of blood only happens when there is a small puncture to the carotid artery, NOT THE JUGULAR (that's in your throat).
Also, no spurting effect would have been produced seeing as how cutting took place in a sawing motion with a small blade. This would result in a loss of pressure as blood leaked before having a fully open wound to pour through. Why don't you leave the autopsy to the certified medical examiners?

Last, the jump in the tape is most likely due to the fact that it probably took a good 10 minutes or more to cut through the brain stem. Have you ever cut the leg off a turkey with nothing but a pocket knife? No, because it would take too much time and effort. Most people just cut around the bone. In this case, there was no going around. Therefore, the terrorists edited the tape on the computer they obviously have so that the undeveloped minds of muslim militants would be able to keep their humming bird attention span focused.

Posted by: charlee at May 14, 2004 08:23 PM

A "gallon" of blood would cover a 20 square foot area.

Posted by: mojo at May 14, 2004 08:26 PM

charlee - not to piss you off any further, but I'd honestly like to know what you think of the jumpsuit that slipped into the video.

Posted by: hawkeye at May 14, 2004 08:29 PM

Mojo, go home and dump out a gallon of water on the cement. The only possible way it will cover 20 sq. ft. is if you pour it on glass and squeegie it as thin as possible. Plus, blood, being denser than water, puddles together better.

Posted by: charlee at May 14, 2004 08:30 PM

20 square feet is 4X5 feet, a gallon of any semi-viscous liquid would easily cover that area.

Posted by: mojo at May 14, 2004 08:33 PM

all my blogging friends, a bit of background. what do you think?


Beheading.

Note : Some people may find the images on this page disturbing - they do not load automatically.

Historical background.
Beheading with a sword or axe goes back a very long way in history, because like hanging, it was a cheap and practical method of execution in early times when a sword or an axe was always readily available.
The Greeks and the Romans considered beheading a less dishonourable (and less painful) form of execution than other methods in use at the time. The Roman Empire used beheading for its own citizens whilst crucifying others.
Beheading was widely used in Europe and Asia until the 20th century, but now is confined to Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Yemen and Iran. Saudi Arabia publicly beheaded 52 men and 1 woman for murder, rape, sodomy and drug offences in 2003. (See Saudi Arabia below). One man was beheaded in Iran – the first for many years.
Beheading was used in Britain up to 1747 (see below) and was the standard method in Norway (abolished 1905), Sweden (up to 1903), Denmark and Holland (abolished 1870), and was used for some classes of prisoner in France (up until the introduction of the guillotine in 1792) and in Germany up to 1938.
China also used it widely, until the communists came to power and replaced it with shooting in the twentieth century. Japan too used beheading up to the end of the nineteenth century prior to turning to hanging.

Equipment for beheading.
There are two distinct forms of beheading - by the sword and by the axe. All present day beheadings using the sword. Where a person is to be decapitated with a sword, a block is not used and they are generally made to kneel down although they could, if short, be executed standing up, and in Germany women were sometimes allowed to sit in a chair.
A typical execution sword is 36 - 48 inches (900 - 1200 mm) long and two to two and a half inches (50 - 65mm) wide with the handle being long enough for the executioner to use both hands to give maximum leverage. It will weigh around 4 lbs. (2 Kg.) In Saudi Arabia, a traditional Arab scimitar is used which is 1000 - 1100 mm long.
Where an axe was the chosen implement, a wooden block, often shaped to accept the neck, was required. Two patterns of block were used, the high block, 18 - 24 inches, (450 - 600 mm) high, where the prisoner knelt in front of it and lent forward so that the neck rested on the top, or lay on a low bench with their neck over the block. The neck on a high block presented an easier target due to the head pointing slightly downwards, thus bringing the neck into prominence. It also meant that the axe was at a better angle at that point in the arc of the stroke to meet the neck full on.
The high block was favoured in later times in Britain and was standard in Germany up to the 1930's.
Some countries used a low block where the person lies full length and puts there neck over the small wooden block which is just a few inches high. This arrangement was used in Sweden where some 600 people, including nearly 200 women, were beheaded in the 19th century, until manual beheading was replaced by the guillotine in 1903. This drawing is of the execution of 48 year old Anna Månsdotter in Kristianstad, southern Sweden on 7th of August 1890. She was the last woman to be executed in Sweden, and had been convicted of strangling her daughter-in-law, Hanna Johansdotter. Anna was having an incestuous relationship with her son, Per, who received a life sentence for his part in the crime.
The low block presented the executioner with certain difficulties. The arc prescribed by the axe as he brought it down meant that the blade was at quite an angle to the prisoner's neck making it more difficult to sever the head with a single blow. In Anna's case it passed through her lower jaw which was left attached to her neck.
Two patterns of axe were also used - the pattern used in Britain, which was developed from the traditional woodsman's axe, has a blade about one foot eight inches (500 mm) high by ten inches (250 mm) wide with a five foot (1525 mm) long handle. In Germany the axe was like a larger version of a butcher's cleaver, again the handle was long enough for the headsman to use both hands.

Beheading in Britain.
In Britain beheading was introduced during the reign of William the Conqueror for the execution of Waltheof, Earl of Northumberland in 1076. It was confined to those of noble birth who were convicted of treason, or in a very few cases murder. Several members of Royalty were beheaded, including Charles 1st, Anne Boleyn, Mary Queen of Scots and Lady Jane Grey. Many other Earls, Lords and Knights, including Sir Walter Raleigh, and even some Bishops were beheaded.
The majority of English beheadings took place at the Tower of London. 7 were carried out in private within the grounds, of which 5 were of women and just over 150 on Tower Hill outside the walls of the Tower, where there stood a permanent scaffold from 1485. Only a very small number of beheadings were carried out elsewhere, as the Tower was the principal prison for traitors. It should be noted that treason often meant displeasing the monarch, rather than in any way betraying the country.
The spot indicated as "The site of the scaffold" on Tower Green which visitors can see today was not used for all of the seven private beheadings although the plaque implies this.
Those beheaded in private on Tower Green were Lord Hastings in 1483, Anne Boleyn on the 19th of May 1536, Margaret Pole, Countess of Salisbury on the 28th of May 1541, Catherine Howard on the 13th of February 1542. Her Lady in Waiting, Jane, Viscountess Rochford was beheaded on the same day. Lady Jane Grey on the 15th of February 1554 and Robert Devereux, Earl of Essex on the 25th of February 1601.
At various times both the low block and the high block have been used . The axe was the normal implement of execution in Britain, although Anne Boleyn was beheaded with a sword (see below).
A replica of the scaffold used for the 1601 execution of Robert Devereux, Earl of Essex has been constructed for exhibition in the Tower. The original was set up in the middle of the Parade Ground and was made of oak, some 4 feet high and having a 9 feet square platform (1.2 m high x 2.75 m square) with a waist high rail round it. The prisoner mounted it by a short flight of stairs and was not restrained throughout the execution as it was expected that people of noble birth would know how to behave at their executions! Devereux lay full length on the platform and placed his neck on the low block with his arms outstretched. It is recorded that three strokes of the axe were required to decapitate him. Straw was spread on the scaffold to absorb the blood.
Beheading in public on Tower Hill was used when the government of the day wished to make an example of the traitor or traitors. Double beheadings were rare although not unknown and were carried out in order of precedence of the victims, as occurred with the Jacobite Earls, Kilmarnock and Balmerino executed in 1746 for treason after the battle of Culloden.
Simon Lord Lovatt became the last person to be beheaded on Tower Hill when he was executed for treason on April 9th 1747. The high block used for Lord Lovatt together with the axe are on display in the Tower. (see photo). It was normal for the executioner to pick up the severed head and display to the crowd, proclaiming "Behold the head of a traitor!"

The execution of Anne Boleyn.
29 year old Anne, (see photo) Henry VIII's second wife, had been convicted on trumped up charges of adultery and treason and was thus sentenced to death by burning at the stake or beheading at the Kings pleasure. Fortunately for Anne he chose the latter and perhaps through a pang of conscience imported a skilled headsman from Calais in France to ensure the execution was performed as humanely as possible. British hangmen normally got the job of beheading those condemned but were generally very poor at it due to the rarity of such sentences.
On the 19th May 1536 Anne was led to the Parade Ground within the Tower with an escort of two hundred Yeoman of the Guard (Beefeaters). She was wearing a loose, ermine trimmed, grey damask robe over a red underskirt. Her hair was "up" covered with a white coif and a small black cap and she wore a cross on a gold chain at her waist and carried a white handkerchief and a prayer book.
She had to climb 4 feet (1200 mm) up the steps to the scaffold to meet her headsman who was wearing a black suit and half mask covering the upper part of his face. The long two handed execution sword was concealed under the straw on the scaffold.
Anne made a short speech to the assembled witnesses and then removed her cape and her hair coif and cap which was now replaced by a white cap. She knelt on the platform and prayed with her chaplain. When she had finished one of her ladies in waiting blindfolded her with a large handkerchief. All was now ready and the headsman took up the sword and beheaded her with a single blow. (Click here to see a shot of her execution as portrayed in a film). Her ladies in waiting recovered her head and as there was no coffin provided she was placed in an old arrow box and duly buried in the in the Chapel Royal of St. Peter ad Vinicula, within the Tower.

Lady Jane Grey.
Lady Jane Grey, the daughter of the Duke of Suffolk, was born in October 1537 and was only sixteen years old when she was proclaimed Queen on the 10th of July 1553 by Protestant nobles, including her father, after the premature death of Edward VI. She reigned, uncrowned, for just 9 days and was unable to win public acceptance because of her religion in what was a predominately Catholic country. Queen Mary (Bloody Mary) took over the throne and commenced her persecution of Protestants. Thus Jane was deposed and imprisoned in the Tower for 6 months before being condemned for treason and executed on the 13th of February 1554. She was led to the scaffold erected on Tower Green in front of the White Tower. She made a speech and recited a psalm before using a large white handkerchief to blindfold herself. She knelt on a cushion in front of the high block. Having blindfolded herself she couldn't see the block and fumbling for it said "What shall I do, where is it, where is it?" One of the people on the scaffold guided her down and before the fatal blow she said "Lord, into Thy hands I commend my spirit". (Click here to see an artist's impression of her execution). Earlier on the same day her husband, Lord Guilford Dudley, whom she had married on the 21st of May 1553, was beheaded on Tower Hill and her father suffered the same fate 11 days later for his part in the alleged conspiracy to seize the thrown for his daughter. Many others were to be beheaded or burned at the stake under Mary's reign, hence her nickname.

Germany.
Beheading with a high block and axe was the normal method of execution in some Länders (provinces) of Germany and was carried out in public up to 1851. Other Länders used the sword or the guillotine. Franz Schmidt, the executioner of Nuremberg in the 16th century, sometimes allowed condemned woman to be beheaded, rather than hanged, as a mercy to them. The condemned woman was seated in a chair and Schmidt beheaded her with his sword from behind. He executed at least 42 women during his 44 years in office.
The execution of Bertha Zillman on October 31st 1893 was described by journalists. Zillman had poisoned her husband with arsenic because he beat her and their children and was sentenced to death. She was beheaded at Plötzensee prison at 8.00 a.m. Her dress was cut out at the neck down to her shoulders and her hair put up in a bun. She was given a shawl to wear. When the Inspector of the prison went to fetch her he found her prostrate with fear and she had to be helped to the high block by two male warders. She silently removed the shawl and with one swing of the axe the executioner had decapitated her. It was all over by 8.03 a.m.
There was a double female execution in 1914 when Pauline Zimmer and Marie Kubatzka were beheaded for murder in Ratibor. The women were executed in turn using a high block. In front of the block was a black cushion on which the manacled woman knelt and then bent forward to put her head on the block which was higher on the body side so that it caused the neck to be slightly bent. The assistant executioner held the women's hair out in front of her to prevent her moving at the crucial moment while the masked executioner beheaded her with a short handled axe, rather like a butcher's cleaver. (Click here to see a picture of an earlier, but similar female beheading in Germany)
Two famous beheadings in Germany were carried out at 6 a.m. on 18th February 1935 when Baroness Benita von Falkenhayn and her friend Renate von Natzner, who had been convicted of spying, were beheaded with the axe by the executioner Carl Gröpler wearing the traditional tail-coat, top hat and white gloves, at Berlin's Plötzensee prison. In 1938 Hitler decreed that all future executions should be by hanging or guillotining. West Germany abolished capital punishment altogether in 1951 and the last execution there was in 1949.

Saudi Arabia - the beheading capital of the modern world.
Saudi Arabia uses public beheading as the punishment for murder, rape, drug trafficking, sodomy and armed robbery, apostasy and certain other offences. 45 men and 2 women were beheaded in 2002 and a further 52 men and 1 woman in 2003.
The condemned of both sexes are given tranquillisers and then taken by police van to a public square or a car park after midday prayers. Their eyes are covered and they are blindfolded. The police clear the square of traffic and a sheet of blue plastic sheet about 16 feet square is laid out on the ground.
Dressed in their own clothes, barefoot, with shackled feet and hands cuffed behind their back, the prisoner is led by a police officer to the centre of the sheet where they are made to kneel facing Mecca. An Interior Ministry official reads out the prisoner's name and crime to the crowd of witnesses.
A policeman hands the sword to the executioner who raises the gleaming scimitar and often swings it two or three times before approaches the prisoner from behind and jabbing him in the back with the tip of the sword causing the person to raise their head. (see photo)
Normally it takes just one swing of the sword to sever the head, often sending it flying some two or three feet. Paramedics bring the head to a doctor, who uses a gloved hand to stop the fountain of blood spurting from the neck. The doctor sews the head back on, and the body is wrapped in the blue plastic sheet and taken away in an ambulance. The body is then buried in an unmarked grave in the prison cemetery.
Beheadings of women did not start until the early 1990s, previously they were shot. 33 women have been publicly beheaded up to the end of 2003.
Most executions are carried out in the three major cities of Riyadh, Jeddah and Dahran.
Saudi executioners take great pride in their work and the post tends to be handed down from one generation to the next.

The cause of death.
Beheading is effective and is probably as humane as any other modern method if carried out correctly. When a single blow is sufficient to decapitate the prisoner, they lose consciousness within a few seconds. They die from shock and anoxia due to haemorrhage and loss of blood pressure within less than 60 seconds. However because the muscles and vertebrae of the neck are tough, decapitation may require more than one blow. Death occurs due to separation of the brain and spinal cord, after the transection (cutting through) of the surrounding tissues. According to Dr. Harold Hillman "this must cause acute and possibly severe pain. Consciousness is probably lost within 2-3 seconds, due to a rapid fall of intracranial perfusion of blood" (blood supply to the brain).
It has often been reported that the eyes and mouths of people beheaded have shown signs of movement. It has been calculated that the human brain has enough oxygen stored for metabolism to persist about seven seconds after the head is cut off.

The problem with beheading.
Beheading requires a skilled headsman if it is to be at all humane and not infrequently several blows are required to sever the head. It took three blows to remove Mary Queen of Scot's head at Fotheringhay Castle in 1587.
The prisoner is usually blindfolded so that they do not see the sword or axe coming and move at the crucial moment. Again this is why in both beheading and guillotining it was not unusual for an assistant to hold the prisoner's hair to prevent them moving.
In any event the results are gory in the extreme as blood spurts from the severed arteries and veins of the neck including the aorta and the jugular vein. No doubt these two factors have lead to the abandonment of beheading by most countries that used it. All the European countries that used it have now totally abolished the death penalty.

Back to Contents page The guillotine

Posted by: j at May 14, 2004 08:35 PM

At least a gallon you said? Maybe 2?

9 pints=1.125 gallon

Posted by: ema at May 14, 2004 08:35 PM

Hawkeye- This "uniform" means nothing. You say you THINK you MAY have POSSIBLY noticed a patch on the arm. Iraqis have green military suits as well. Sadaam was often seen parading around in his. Even if there was a patch, you would have to prove it was a U.S. patch. If there is a mistake this big, that definitely excludes the CIA, and how did American soldiers have access to the terrorists' Al-Jeezer site? Even so, I will accept your point as arguable AT BEST as I am too disgusted to further study the film.

Posted by: charlee at May 14, 2004 08:36 PM

Yeah you know, 'cause I did say that my friend said that, I didn't...btw, she is a graduate from medical school, and was a field nurse...she knows what shes talking about...but I'm not saying she was right, but not wrong either...

Oh, and that jump is 11 hours...not 10 minutes. My friend has a link with pictures from a jump of 200 hours to 1300 hours...I will post it as soon as I see him again.

Posted by: Rezim at May 14, 2004 08:43 PM

I am signing off this site, but I must say this: it is good to see that we still have the ability to "agree to disagree!" we may call each other names and VEHEMENTLY disagree, but that which has given us this luxury is in JEOPARDY! let's please use all this mental power to DO BETTER!!!!!!!!! QUESTION AUTHORITY! It is not as simple as the comments I have seen on this site both pro and con! To my pro brothers and sisters: "keep on keeping on!" to my con brothers and sisters: "keep on keeping on!" At least we are all trying to THINK!!!!!!!!!!!!! If it is TRUTH that we are seeking, we WILL find it. JUST BE BIG ENOUGH TO ACCEPT IT!

I AM RENEWED!

j

Posted by: j at May 14, 2004 08:47 PM

j- In the article you copied and pasted which refers to the spurting of blood, if you had learned effective reading techniques in elementary school, you would have noticed that the article is based on what happens when a humane execution is performed. To be humane, which the article states, the beheading must be performed in a single blow. Such sudden opening of the veins and arteries would produce a lot more pressure. Especially when the victim knows he is about to die and has an increased heart rate. The pressure is like piss.... say you had to pee for 6 hours straight and I stabbed you in the bladder, the piss stream would be incredibly intense.

Posted by: charlee at May 14, 2004 08:48 PM

I found the white chair...

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/iraq/dispatches/meyer/stories/052503cciraqmeyer2.5e086195.html

I think it was a set up deal but the white chair is a little much...

Posted by: Harlo at May 14, 2004 08:54 PM

Well-putt Robert Miles. Religion is bliss is ignorance. Blind faith in any proported idea of invisibility and judgmental omnipresence is the most dangerous tool known to man. Not only does this ferver to be righteous pervert natural courses of human growth, but it also fosters a mentality of righteous indignation, where justification for any atrocity is easy if the collective majority buy into the idea of corporate justice, and imperial infallability.

Posted by: mojo at May 14, 2004 08:54 PM

First of all, I have never supported Bush in anything that he does. Secondly, at some point you have to realize that in struggling so hard to question authority, you have lost the truth in itself. Yes, the authorities are often wrong and yes they do lie, but an intelligent person picks his battles based on the fact that authority is not always wrong. In this case, I have even found in my readings that there are several questionable elements of the case. However, as you can see on this site, the majority of the public cannot be allowed to come into contact with all the facts. Why? Number one, it is vital to the case and war-related events. This is simply "keeping one's poker face." I am glad you have made such a valiant effort in fighting authority. However, perhaps you should make it your point to fight lies rather than authority. As for the swearing, I apologize. Go back and reread my points ignoring the swearing. If you're going to pick at something, pick at something that matters.

Posted by: charlee at May 14, 2004 08:58 PM

Anyway, I am out for the night. Good night and take care everyone. I'll be leaving you with a little bit of 911 For Peace by Anti-Flag.

Later and enjoy your free lives before they are englufed in a flame of imperialism.

It's in the paper every day
I see it in the headlines and I feel so sick, yeah
Another life leaves this world (this world) so full of hate
But short
Short on compassion
Short on humanity
Asking myself in vain, shaken by the shock,
"do we even have a chance?"

I don't wanna die
(I don't wanna kill)
I don't wanna kill
(I don't wanna die)
We are all human.
It's time to prove it.

This is a plea for peace (world peace)
To the oppressors of the world and to
To the leaders of nations, corporate profit takers,
to the everday citizen
Greed, envy, fear, hate-- the competition has to stop.
When you see someone down, now's the time to pick them up
Set aside your differences and never look back, no

I don't wanna die
(I don't wanna kill)
I don't wanna kill
(I don't wanna die)
We are all human
It's time to prove it.

Isn't everybody tired of the fighting? (hey, hey)
Isn't everybody tired of the killing? (hey, hey)
Isn't everybody tired of the dying? (hey, hey)
Isn't everybody tired fo the hatred? (hey, hey)
Violence.. fighting... killing...dying.. aaaaaaah!!

[excerpt from Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have a Dream" speech:]
And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow,
I still have a dream
we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children,
black men and white men
Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join
hands and sing
"Free at last, free at last.
Thank God Almighty, we are free at last."

I don't wanna die
(I don't wanna kill)
I don't wanna kill
(I don't wanna die)
We are all human
It's time to prove it.

We are all human
It's time to prove it.
We are all human...

Posted by: Rezim at May 14, 2004 09:00 PM

J,

love the reference to Strauss. for all that don't know,


Leo Strauss and the Straussians

Until quite recently, Leo Strauss and his disciples were considered (insofar as anyone took any notice of them) just a particular variety of conservative intellectuals, with a special interest in political philosophy and American constitutional history. Now we are beginning to discover that something peculiar has been going on all this time.

The greatest peculiarity of Straussianism is that there is such a thing. Not a single other "conservative" thinker has inspired a following remotely comparable, in size, continuity, and influence, to that of Leo Strauss. There is a Straussian school as there is no Weaveran or Burnhamite or Meyeran or Kendallist or Voegelinist school. And this school has its own interests, ideas, and purposes, which are clearly distinct from mainstream conservatism, however close to their collective chest they play their cards.

The Straussians are also the only group of "conservatives" ever to amount to anything in the academic world. They have reportedly been gradually, quietly infiltrating and taking over political-science departments, making that discipline characteristically theirs, as Marxists have done with sociology, and libertarians with economics.

Then along came Allan Bloom, who was catapulted to momentary fame by The Closing of the American Mind (1987), briefly becoming one of the most publicly-recognized "conservative" figures ... second only to William F. Buckley, Jr., who had spent decades making his name as the liberal establishment's token conservative. Curiously (and characteristically) enough, in Bloom's famous (or infamous) book, he only mentions his master once, and in passing, so that the vast majority of his readers remained blissfully ignorant of any connection (probably never having heard of Leo Strauss anyway); yet those in the know could immediately recognize Bloom's intellectual affiliation.

Strauss and the Straussians began to attract more attention, both journalistic and scholastic. One liberal scholar, Shadia Drury, has made a career of writing anti-Straussian exposés: The Political Ideas of Leo Strauss (1988), Alexandre Kojeve: the Roots of Postmodern Politics (1994), Leo Strauss and the American Right (1997).

The distinctively Straussian approach to political philosophy is, quite simply, to take premodern philosophers seriously, and to try to understand them as they understood themselves. This is, by itself, a radical challenge to modern historicism (i.e. historical relativism), which holds that the thoughts of premodern philosophers are "outmoded" and irrelevant; they were mental prisoners of their epoch -- usually ignoring the implication that we, too, are mental prisoners of our own epoch, so that contemporary prejudices are no better than "outmoded" ones.

But this is only a prelude to an even more radical challenge to modern thought: the Straussians believe that premodern philosophy is better than modern philosophy. This turns the whole "progressive" view of history topsy-turvy, and provides a very distinctive point of view, and line of criticism, about modernity. The Straussians are pre-modern and anti-modern, not in the name of religion (like the various forms of religious fundamentalism all over the world) or of tradition (like conservatives since Edmund Burke), but in the name of reason, of philosophy: an understanding of reason and philosophy different from the Enlightenment's.

The teaching of Leo Strauss is "political philosophy" in a very special sense: his primary, if not exclusive, concern is the relation of philosophy (and the philosophers themselves) to society as a whole. Moreover, he imputes this primary concern to the premodern and early modern philosophers.

The lesson of the trial and execution of Socrates is that Socrates was guilty as charged: philosophy is a threat to society. By questioning the gods and the ethos of the city, philosophy undermines the citizens' loyalty, and thus the basis of normal social life. Yet philosophy is also the highest, the worthiest, of all human endeavors. The resolution of this conflict is that the philosophers should, and in fact did, keep their teachings secret, passing them on by the esoteric art of writing "between the lines." Strauss believed that he alone had recovered the true, hidden message contained in the "Great Tradition" of philosophy from Plato to Hobbes and Locke: the message that there are no gods, that morality is ungrounded prejudice, and that society is not grounded in nature.

With Machiavelli, however, there came a shift in emphasis. He was the first to deviate from the esoteric tradition that began with Plato, thereby initiating the Enlightenment. Machiavelli de-moralized political philosophy, and thereby created "political science." Virtue, whether defined in classical or Christian terms, was dethroned, because no regime could live up to its demands. Instead, a new regime could and should be created, by accepting, understanding, and harnessing men's lower, self-interested nature.

The modern world is held to be the deliberate creation (with some unintended consequences) of the modern philosophers -- namely, the Enlightenment, which gave birth to both scientific-technological progress and the liberal ideology of social-political progress. The Enlighteners argued (though still covertly) that instead of hiding philosophy, philosophers should reform society to make it more hospitable to philosophy: in particular, by undertaking the "project" of modern science, by which reason masters nature and provides material gratifications -- safety, health and wealth -- to common men, bribing them into acquiescence to philosophy. Physical science and technology would provide the know-how, while a new kind of regime, liberalism, would provide the conditions of liberty and equality enabling men to pursue their self-interest.

The problem with this (in the Straussian view) is that it exposed philosophy once more, and ultimately prostituted philosophy itself into the service of common men. The esoteric tradition was forgotten, and with it philosophy as such. At the same time, philosophy inadvertently exposed men to certain hard truths, truths too hard for them to bear: that there are no gods to reward good or punish evil; that no one's patria is really any better than anyone else's; that one's ancestral ways are merely conventional. This leads to nihilism, epitomized by the listless, meaningless life of bourgeois man, or to dangerous experiments with new gods -- gods like the race and the Fuehrer.

Strauss, an ethnic Jew and refugee from Nazi Germany, looked at the regnant liberalism of mid-century America, and saw the Weimar Republic: morally weak, incapable of self-preservation. His prophecy was fulfilled by the ignominious collapse of the liberal establishment, both political and academic, in the face of the New Left.

Now, this unique interpretation of Western history depends on the existence of a "hidden agenda" in the history of philosophy. If there was, in fact, such an esoteric tradition, it has escaped the attention of most scholars. Of course, that might only prove how well-hidden it is ... which goes to show how seductive esotericism can be, once you start flirting with it. But in the end, what really matters is the philosophical questions Strauss raised, whether or not he was correct in ascribing them to the historic philosophers.

There are several problems with his "teaching." First, is the philosopher (in the original, literal sense: a "lover of wisdom") really a superior type of person? I think that he is -- but not that he is a superior being. The difference between the philosopher and the ordinary person is one of degree, not of kind. His impulses are the same, but ordered differently. No matter how rational he is, he is still a rational animal: a sexual one, for instance, and a social one. His curiosity is more fully developed than theirs, but unless his other faculties are at least as well developed as theirs, this one trait does not make him better than they are.

The ancient philosophers did believe that the philosophic life is the highest and best, but only a few are suited to it. The Straussians concur, and go on to imply that the major evil of modern egalitarianism is that it makes philosophy impossible, by devaluing anything that is not accessible to the common man. But philosophy is not the only thing that suffers: so do creativity, heroism, authority, and all other "elitist" qualities.

Bloom makes much of this, even though he regards these other "types of soul" as rivals to philosophy, because he wants to undermine egalitarianism, and these others are more appealing. Philosophy is all the less appealing if, as he seems to assume, the ultimate truth is that there is no truth. It is all the more important, then, to convey this truth through misdirection: the desire to know cannot be aroused unless the allure of truth is held out.

The main difference between the Straussians and Left-wing nihilists is that the former think the "truth" of value-relativism should be known only to the few. All the philosophical problems with relativism apply to the Straussians' Right-wing version, and in spades. Suffice it here to say that the Straussians, too, have to introduce quasi-objective standards of judgment, covertly and unintentionally: e.g., the social utility of religion and patriotism. Surely, the very fact that society requires certain things -- communal loyalty, for instance -- in itself justifies these things: they are rooted in nature, the social nature of humanity.

Then there is an evident contradiction between the idea of philosophy as the pursuit of truth, and the idea of philosophy as a body of esoteric lore. If the Straussian reading is correct, it would seem that the history of philosophy consists of practically nothing but pondering the relation of philosophy to civil society, rather than pondering philosophical questions themselves. All the important questions have already been answered, or declared to be unanswerable: this is what created the tension between philosophy and civil society in the first place. So what is there for philosophers to do? The Straussians themselves are not even philosophers, but historians of philosophy, custodians of the esoteric lore.

The perceived need to write obscurely also tends to obscure thought. The Closing of the American Mind is much better-written (in style, at least, if not in convoluted structure and argumentation) than anything by Leo Strauss. But even Bloom makes his argument complex and subtle to the point of evasiveness, as if he wants to confuse and mislead the reader. (In particular, his critics -- those who actually did read him -- were hardly ever able to tell when he was or was not speaking in propria persona.) Bloom, at least, writes so well that he charms rather than repulses the reader, so one is (if sympathetic) willing to read his book again and again, with closer and closer attention; but not even the most sympathetic reader can really be sure, in the end, precisely what Bloom really means, behind all the good and important things he does say.

Bloom's analysis of our cultural predicament is so true, so profound, that there must be some truth in his speculations as to its causes; but he all-too-carefully avoids making clear and specific claims that can be put to the test. This is the great weakness of the Straussian method: so careful is he to hide the point of his argument, he nearly fails to make it. Certainly he fails to support it. Strauss puts his students to such a mental effort to try to understand him that they are too exhausted to make the mental effort to criticize him.

Given the inherent obscurity of the Straussian teaching, one should only be surprised if it did not produce conflicting interpretations. There are in fact two schools of Straussians: those like Bloom, who accept and propound this esoteric teaching; and those, such as Harry Jaffa, who interpret Strauss in terms of a more conventional understanding of classical philosophy. One might call them the esoterics and the exoterics, but it is hard to tell which is which.

It may be that the seeming exoterics are just better at hiding their esotericism, which makes them the true esoterics. Both of them challenge the prevailing relativism of twentieth-century thought, harking back to classical standards of truth and justice; but the esoterics only do so because truth and justice are salutary myths, while the exoterics (perhaps) really do believe in truth and justice.

The two schools are also divided on their interpretation of American history, and particularly the American Founding. Both follow Strauss's division of philosophical history into the (good) "ancients" and the (bad) "moderns." According to the esoteric version, America was wholly modern from its inception: it is entirely the creation of the "modern project." The exoteric Straussians, like conservatives, prefer to emphasize America's continuity with the classical and Christian sources of Western civilization.

The esoterics, then, basically agree with the libertarian and (pre-1960s) liberal understanding of American history: we are a "proposition nation," liberal to the core, and conservatism is un-American. The cult of the Founding Fathers is just a salutary myth. The truth is that the Founders, under the tutelage of Hobbes and Locke, deliberately created a squalid regime ruled by self-interest, sacrificing virtue to liberty and equality, and are ultimately responsible for the philistinism, mediocrity, and deracination of contemporary America.

Both esoterics and exoterics seem to agree that we need to try to refurbish the old notion of "natural rights," on which the republic was founded. Bloom regards "natural rights" as illusory, and bourgeois society as distasteful; but they are at least preferable to the nihilism of the New Left. The question is whether the New Left was the inevitable culmination of the ideology of liberty and equality -- and he strongly implies that it is. His only hope seems to be the cultivation of a tiny remnant to pass on the old lore through the new Dark Age. Now, conservatism might or might not be un-American, but this sort of quietism certainly is.

Straussianism is an extraordinarily complex and subtle body of ideas, and I am sure that I have hardly done it justice in this small space. But in the end, Straussianism offers more questions than answers. This is not necessarily bad: the questions need to be asked. What is the relation of nature to culture? Can society be founded on rational principles? Has the Enlightenment brought about its own downfall? How did this happen? What can be salvaged from the wreck? -- etc. Strauss, through his disciple Bloom, started me thinking about these questions, which have preoccupied me ever since.

© 2000 by Karl Jahn

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Posted by: tgif at May 14, 2004 09:07 PM

I have seen the video a few times just to scrutinize all the conspiracy. There are so many points that i think deserve further investigation but i'm only going to mention a few.

1) He knew the language. Hello? Does that not raise a red flag in itself? They announced what they were about to do. You would not just sit there. That audio was dubbed in, had to be. Nick looks very strange sitting there. And in the first part of the video, he is not stating his name, etc with any kind of stress in his voice. It's more, "matter of factly" I believe he was in custody of someone with whom he was not that fearful of.

2) Note the Parade Rest. That is a big giveaway in my book.

3) They do look like they're drabbed in costume and the body language shows obvious signs of discomfort relating to this.

4) Abu Musab al-Zarqawi (the leader that supposedly did the hacking) reportedly died in a bombing, those reports are well known in the Islamic community. CNN reports that is NOT his voice. But the Government basically says, "Yes it is, hush." Why would he wear a ski mask if he is alive and wants to take credit?? That makes NO sense.


Translated transcript
http://members.cox.net/nx100/NickBerg.htm

Posted by: Ria at May 14, 2004 09:11 PM

touche~

Posted by: mojo at May 14, 2004 09:17 PM

j- I do not question that you have knowledge on the subject of the war in Iraq, etc. However, my arguments were based on the execution, not the war itself. And if you read above, you would know that I stand firmly against Bush. Last, for someone who thinks that I am on attack mode, you seem to have been more upset by my arguments. So I think it's best you know that you allowed an 11th grade high school student to get a rise out of you.

P.S. Wannabe Ivy-Leaguer? Well I'm a little young so thanks for the compliment... good to know you thought I was an adult Ivy League rejectee.

Posted by: charlee at May 14, 2004 09:24 PM

You'll never believe this...I have that same chair here at my house! What are the odds...how many white stackable plastic chairs can there be in this world? Spooky...

Posted by: al at May 14, 2004 09:33 PM

interesting theory, but highly unlikely.

still wondering, why say your name? but wear a mask.

maybe to hide his new identity. ie, plastic surgery.

Posted by: ryan at May 14, 2004 09:42 PM

sounds high time someone grew up and got a life. your acerbic diatribe has been based on some paranoid maniacle out of work humanities major.

i say that nicely too! smile.

Posted by: charlee at May 14, 2004 09:43 PM

charlee,

like I said, wannabe Ivy leaguer. do you want to go to school? where? please note, you initiated "attack" mode by mentioning "elementary school" reading skills? Once again, I reiterate, dialogue skills. DO NOT "attack" one's writing skills or their analysis by making wise cracks! you must admit that you do this!

I don't see your age, I only see your commentary, so to your credit, you do appear as a frustrated Ivy Leaguer. However, today......that doesn't mean much, for as John Taylor Gatto wrote, "we are being dumbed down!" If you are lucky enough, and you chose to do so, maybe you will attend college, and if you chose, the "IVY League." then you will understand the meaning of my statements!

Think it ain't illegal yet! (now my friend, a dialogue can begin!)

Posted by: j at May 14, 2004 09:46 PM

first, learn to spell. secondly, nice try. don't use words that aren't necessary. "acerbic diatribe?" please. are you using "verbal advantage" or is that the new high banter? please! let's not argue! if you have something to offer, then do so! perhaps we can assist one another. I am not beyond learning from someone so young, but you must come correct! your commentary has been condescending! you did attack all those who's posts you disagree. you said things in an authoritative manner. am I wrong? I am telling you from experience that I believe the video was faked. why don't you ask me why? aren't you curious? I hope you are! come on now, charlee!

Posted by: j at May 14, 2004 09:54 PM

I've noticed that with all the talk about the chair and the jumpsuit and shoes and skin color of the hands and such that no one sems to have noticed that the guy on the right is not carrying an AK47. If you look real closely,he's got an H&K MP5. Notice the skinny 9mm magazine and the angle from which the magazine comes out from the receiver. An AK47 magazine juts distinctly forward upon leaving the receiver as opposed to an H&K MP5 mag which comes downward more closely to perpindicular to the receiver. The pictures aren't real clear, but if you look closely I think you'll agree with me.

Posted by: bowlsmoker at May 14, 2004 09:55 PM

I would place all my stock in those who can break down the lies of the curent administration. The media is falling for it hook,line and sinker.
I appreciate the time you took to post this information.
There are others. On the message boards I read, I have come across similar insite, and hope the young people keep this up, and look past the lies, and see the truth. It will set us all free !

Posted by: Sheila-Marie at May 14, 2004 09:58 PM

"As to can see on terrorists 2, 4, and 5 - the BULLET PROOF VESTS. American MPs wear them all the time. To them it's like putting on their underwear. hey wear them so that if a prisoner tries to make a knife and stab them in the heart - they are protected."

I agree with a lot of what you say; however, a bullet-proof vest will not stop a knife. Interestingly enough, the fibers in the vests are only strong against high velocity objects. The high speed allows the mesh to tighten together and stop a bullet. A knife thrust isn't fast enough to allow the fibers to tighten and it would actually penetrate the vest.

Posted by: Thronus at May 14, 2004 10:01 PM

So where is Daniel Pearls' white chair? And again and again I always see these Al-Queda guys wearing alot of that white drapery middle- eastern style of outfit, sometimes with other colors but Daniel Pearl's terrorist could very well be wearing something right out of Osama's closet. I never see any terrorists wearing those kind of hoods and black outfits, the style is totally different. Oh yeh and another thing about Daniel Pearl's picture, they have him kneeling, very reminescent of their prayer style, and once I saw a schoolroom of young boys learning the Koran and they were on the floor, sometimes sitting , sometimes kneeling but never sitting in their white chairs. I mean of the two cultures, theirs and ours, we are the more the "chair sitting " culture than they are. But hey maybe we really are getting thru to them, democratising them and all, they're getting into chair sitting. They've probably even hated us for our chairs.

Posted by: suzanne at May 14, 2004 10:14 PM

j - love gatto... loved his 1990 teacher of the year speech too... great person

Posted by: rawb at May 14, 2004 10:16 PM

wow i see what ya mean but im still stuck on the orange jump suit if ya notise it looks like silk (as the sam type silk like richards but different color)

Posted by: sue at May 14, 2004 10:21 PM

I have no idea who killed him, but the public story of what Nick Berg was doing in Iraq certainly sounds peculiar. Are Americans sneaking into Iraq in droves in order to find business opportunities? Of course it takes all inds. But communications technology would make a great cover for an agent, certainly.

Berg at one point studied for "a few weeks" at the University of Oklahoma.

Zacharias Moussaoui attended flight school in Oklahoma.

Berg reportedly lent his computer and password to an "acquaintance" of Moussaoui. (The orginal report I saw -- from the Berg family, I thought -- was that it was Moussaoui himself, but that has changed.)

(The president of the University of Oklahoma, David L. Boren, has been claimed to have a CIA background and supposedly ongoing connections. See http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phyml?title=David_L._Boren and read down. Unless the writer of the article in question is a paranoid nutcase. If so, David L. Boren has been grievously slandered. Please judge for yourself.)

Apart from that, also in Oklahoma we had the terrorist bombing of the Federal Building, with its own set of unanswered questions.

Coincidence, or why does Oklahoma keep cropping up?

Correct me if anything here is wrong.

Posted by: Ex-Fed at May 14, 2004 10:27 PM

I have read at mainstream media sites that NB always wore a star of David and I inferred that he was proud to be Jewish, that he spoke Arabic and moved freely through ME countries possesing a current Israel Stamp on his passport. I've read here that he was carrying a Koran and also that he carried anti-semetic literature.Non-wealthy Americans may not be getting a great education but our minds are very active, like the detectives we saw constantly on TV and in the stories we read, so, more power to us all on this thread.This is what actually is changing the world today for the better...voluntary communication. Thanks, Marc.

Posted by: lilybridge at May 14, 2004 10:27 PM

I have read at mainstream media sites that NB always wore a star of David and I inferred that he was proud to be Jewish, that he spoke Arabic and moved freely through ME countries possesing a current Israel Stamp on his passport. I've read here that he was carrying a Koran and also that he carried anti-semetic literature.Non-wealthy Americans may not be getting a great education but our minds are very active, like the detectives we saw constantly on TV and in the stories we read, so, more power to us all on this thread.This is what actually is changing the world today for the better...voluntary communication. Thanks, Marc.

Posted by: lilybridge at May 14, 2004 10:34 PM

Not to be a spoil sport--these chairs *are* available all over the world. Saw the exact same chair when I lived in Brazil, ohmygoodness it's a conspiracy!

Posted by: getreal at May 14, 2004 10:40 PM

Why would someone 'want' your e-mail address & password? You can get a yahoo or hotmail account instantly. I don't get that one, except identity theft to be used later.

It's tradition to drug or tranquilize someone before be-heading (so they don't squirm around).

Could all the weight on Berg restrict the blood, causing it not to spurt?

The natural assumption is that Berg was 100% unwilling throughout the whole ordeal. Not sure / not unsure. The 'christ' language of Dad ('my son died for the sins of George Bush') & he, a Jew was carrying a copy of the Qur'an & anti-semitic literature. He could've moved into another realm of religion. Only someone 'good', someone we can all point to as a model human being, like Berg, could be sacrificed. A criminal or a loser won't work.

Posted by: hoitoider at May 14, 2004 10:41 PM

Regarding the white chair being readily available in Iraq - certainly we find those things throughout the industrialized world in our Wal-Mart stores. Which raises, in fact, Marc's point - where in Iraq do you shop for those things? If they could not be purchased, how else could they be acquired?

Posted by: justme at May 14, 2004 10:44 PM

Look at this site..and these are are guys, Hmmmmm, there face covered and all, imagine that, sure it wasn't us that are doing all these ridicilious act....Beheading, rape and etc.....

http://www.aztlan.net/iraqi_women_raped.htm

<>.<>.<>.<>.<>.<>.<>.<>.<>.<>.<>.<>.<>.<>
<> LA VOZ DE AZTLAN NEWS BULLETIN <>
<>.<>.<> Los Angeles, Alta California <>.<>.<>
May 12, 2004

Nick Berg decapitation video declared "a fraud" by medical doctor


The first casualty of war is the truth and this one has been no exception. La Voz de Aztlan obtained a copy of the video showing the beheading of American Nick Berg of Philadelphia and immediately something very odd was readily apparent. Not only were the purported screams of Nick Berg not in synchrony with the decapitation but their was also a total lack of blood spurting out as his jugular and other veins and arteries were being cut.

We forwarded the video to Doctor Raul Castro Guevara, a surgeon and forensic expert in Mexico City for his expert opinion. He wrote back and commented, "No hay manera que el individuo en el video estaba vivo y su corazon funcionando cuando le estaban cortando la cabeza. En estos casos, el corazon impela sangre con gran presion, y se corta las arterias del cuello, hay una gran cantidad de sangre que salpica por todos lados. En mi opinion el video es un fraude."

Doctor Raul Castro Guevara is saying that there is no way that the individual in the video was alive and his heart pumping while his neck was being cut. The doctor adds that in these cases, while the heart is pumping, cutting a person's artery in the neck, would cause copious amounts of blood to spurt all over the immediate environment. He says that in his opinion the video is a fraud.

We hope that our readers view the video and see for themselves. We will provide a copy to any of our subscribers that have been supportive of our publication. Send a request to La Voz de Aztlan at Fake_Video@Aztlan.Net

If you are able to view the video, please pay close attention to the five so called Al queda terrorists making the political statement. Look at their height, weight, skin color and their mannerisms. Do you think these people are Arabs or Iraqis?
--------------------------------------------------
Rape of Iraqi girls by US mercenaries
and soldiers was rampant in Baghdad

One victim was a 9 year old girl
who suffered permanent vaginal injuries
by
Ernesto Cienfuegos
La Voz de Aztlan

Los Angeles, Alta California - May 6, 2004 - (ACN) The recent apology by President George Bush to the Iraqi people is not sufficient to undo the horrible pillage and rape of Iraqi women and girls that took place during the early days of the US occupation of Baghdad. There is some evidence that the invading US forces were provided with amphetamines and pornographic materials to incite their thorough ravaging of Baghdad.

Reports of sexual violence and abduction of women and girls abounded in Baghdad during the early days of the occupation . . . reports that the US government chose to ignore. Human rights groups, medical practitioners, victims, and witnesses had documented many of the crimes. Human rights organizations were concerned that many other cases went unreported and uninvestigated because some of the Iraqi women and girls feared that reporting sexual violence and rapes would provoke “honor” killings and social stigmatization.

A large number of the abductions and rapes were committed and filmed by hired mercenaries of the Pentagon and many of these photographs and videos wound up in for-pay pornographic websites based in the United States. One of these websites has shut down ever since La Voz de Aztlan made this information public. The website called "Iraq Babes", believed owned by Jewish pornographers, advertised it with the following banner: "Horny soldiers having extreme sex in war"! The website at http://www.iraqbabes.com/ has been shut down and presently only shows one web page with a stick drawing of a horse. The website showed photographs and videos of Iraqi women and girls being brutally raped. We hope the website has shut down permanently for it only reinforces the allegation that the USA is really "The Great Satan" Islam talks about.

There are numerous cases of the brutal rape of Iraqi women and babies as young as nine years old. We are reporting the following two just as examples:

Case 1:

On May 22, 2003, in Baghdad, a nine-year-old girl was abducted from the stairs of the building where she lived, taken to an abandoned building nearby, and raped. A family friend who saw the young girl immediately following the rape informed international human rights groups.

The report quotes the family friend, "She was sitting on the stairs, here, at 4:00 p.m. It seems to me that probably they hit her on the back of the head with a gun and then took her to [a neighboring] building. She came back fifteen minutes later, bleeding [from the vaginal area]. [She was still bleeding two days later, so] we took her to the hospital."

A human rights group saw a copy of the medical report by the U.S. military doctor who treated the baby girl six days later. The report documented bruising in the vaginal area, a posterior vaginal tear, and a broken hymen. Lieutenant Monica Casmaer, a physician’s assistant attached to a U.S. military unit, examined the nine year old girl. with the pediatrician. She described the injuries as fairly severe, especially given the time that had elapsed before she was examined.

Case 2:

A young Iraqi woman told an international human rights group that armed men abducted her from her home on a Thursday night in early May, 2003. She said her captors gang-raped her at an unknown location before dropping her in an unfamiliar district of Baghdad the following morning.

The report of the woman says, "I was here, on the stairs by the door when a car pulled up with four men. My daughter was on the upper floor, I was on the ground floor. The four men got out of the car and approached me. They were armed, they put guns to my head and said come with us. I screamed and said take the pistol away. My daughter started to scream. They pulled my hair and pushed me in the car and they started shooting at the house, more than fifty shots. My daughter was screaming the whole time. Many neighbors started to shoot too, but they couldn’t catch them".

The victim added "In the car they made me put my head down between my legs, and put a pistol to my head. They said that if I moved my head I’d be killed, so I don’t know where they took me…. [Then they took me into a building where] they were hitting me on the head and arms, and I still can’t stretch out because my whole body hurts. They used hot water on my head, my eyes still burn from that and my arms. They raped me, in many, many ways. They kept me until the next day, I begged them, I said I have a young child, I said she might die if I leave her alone. And so then they left me alone. When I came home my appearance was so bad, my hair was a mess, my mouth was bloody and my legs too. They burned my legs with cigarettes. They bit me, on my shoulders and arms. All of them raped me, there were five or six more than the four who kidnapped me, there were ten of them total and I was raped by all ten of them.

The most unconscionable aspect of these heinous rapes in Iraq is that many were filmed for the depraved enjoyment of perverts in the USA. Only a thorough Congressional investigation will begin the process of bringing the Pentagon rapists and sodomists to justice. Congress must investigate the connection between the rape of Iraqi women and girls and the Jewish pornographic industry in the USA. A thorough investigation might even save the lives of many American girls who are also being abducted and utilized for the same purpose. There are hundreds of underage girls that disappear in the USA yearly never to be seen again. Many of these young American girls lose their lives in the production of "kiddie porn snuff films".
------------------------------------------------
More Interesting news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.aztlan.net/index.html


Posted by: YA'LL SURE IT WASN'T US at May 14, 2004 10:55 PM

charlee,

please read what you have written. I do suggest that you "don't" go out, have a beer, and get laid. you seem to have done that a little too much already! Perhaps when you do "get a life" (meaning you are old enough to pay bills, raise a family and survive)(which, I do hope the future holds) you will understand!

Terrorists did fly the plane into the city in which I live! I was there! Unfortunately, for you, they weren't who the government and propaganda media told you they were. do some research, THINK FOR YOURSELF! DO some research. take me up on my offer to ask me why I believe the video was faked. don't keep trying to play a game of "I can one up you." are you really interested in growing or attempting to belittle folks on a web site? I realize your feelings are hurt and you are desperately trying to save face for "whatever" reasons. that is not what I intended. Yes, I am angry, and I want anyone who believes that this governments adventure into Iraq and subsequently the "earth island" to "come on down!" a bit vitriolic? of course. it's the nature of the internet, isn't it? got your attention, didn't it? but where do we go from here my friend? If in fact you are all of 16 or 17, then you are part of our future. You remember this post and our discussion and YOUR words, for I will venture to say that, you will live (god willing) live to laugh at yourself and the misanthropic beliefs you are currently holding! When you have read a little more OR developed your INTUITION to the point where you actually traverse time and space, then you can talk to me about Thinking for one's self. I could get nasty and respond on the level you went to, but hey, I am just a "lonely person" on the internet, with nothing better to do than fight with an intransigent teenager. Oh yes, regard the WTC. I bypass what was it everyday on my way to work. I live with the threat of annihilation daily in a city that is arguably the number one target in the "supposed" war on terrorism. In another life (lol) I had a high level government security clearance. I know what our government and the elites that run this country are capable of, do you? from your comments, I think not. No disrespect intended, but have a toke for me, and laugh about this, but once again. instead of trying to be "smart" "think, it ain't illegal yet." I LOST FRIENDS, did YOU?

Posted by: j at May 14, 2004 10:58 PM

has anybody thought about the possibility that nick was working for the CIA? perhaps he was posing as a muslim, doing intel- might explain why he went back... then maybe somehow he came in conflict/wanted to leave, maybe knew more than they wanted him to, maybe cover was blown- who knows- but isn't is possible that he was a patsy? too many coincidences- like the laptop, etc... too many weird things, jewish and carrying antisemetic literature- the muslim beard...

he appeared drugged or even already dead at the time of the beheading...

the white chair is what everybody is jumping on to criticize all theories outside the government explanation- but these theories are based on more than a white chair. they are based on inaccuracies, obvious lies, and common sense.

something stinks.

Posted by: tam at May 14, 2004 11:07 PM

Western Voice Heard On Nick Berg Videotape: A faint Western voice can be heard twice in the final seconds of the infamous videotape of the beheading of Nick Berg. The voice may be saying "Thy Will Be Done."

http://www.breakfornews.com/berg-thywillbedone.mp3

Posted by: hoitoider at May 14, 2004 11:19 PM

tam,

there is considerable speculation of just that! Supposedly, the Iraqi police arrested Mr. Berg on suspicion he was spying for Israel. It get worse. Folks have already commented on the e-mail/oklahoma issue. the fact that he attended Cornell has lead many to speculate that he was recruited there and enticed to leave and do intelligence work.

my experience with intelligence tells me that all of these things are plausible. the who, what, where's and why's are a whole different ballgame. Often it becomes so complicated that one doesn't know the "good" guys from the bad! I have found that we can always know when we sit back and observe and then see who benefits. that seems to be the key! As we know, there really isn't an America any longer. it is all about a global agenda. the fabian creed is to "make haste slowly!" I fear that by the time we "know", "they" (powers that be/forces that move) will be on to the next agenda/issue.

Posted by: j at May 14, 2004 11:20 PM

I have no idea who killed him, but the reason given for Nick Berg's being in Iraq sounds odd all right. Are small businessmen sneaking into Iraq in droves, anticipating business opportunities? Not hardly.

Radio communications does sound like a good cover for an agent. It would get you access to places, communications technology, and opportunities to place surveillance equipment.

Curiouser and curiouser: Nick Berg studies for "a few weeks" at the University of Oklahoma in Norman, OK. Coincidentally, Zacharias Moussaoui studies at a flight school in Norman, OK. Berg coincidentally happens to lend his computer, and give his password, to an "acquaintance" of Moussaoui (first reported by the family to be Moussaoui himself, but the FBI says they never met).

Following the WTC disaster in which Moussaoui supposedly was set to be involved, the U.S. invades Iraq (non sequitur). Berg travels to Iraq, visits the prison where military intelligence is interrogating Iraqi prisoners, later gets picked up himself and is killed on tape.

Is it a coincidence that the president of the University of Oklahoma, David L. Boren, is a former U.S. Senator and Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee with extensive, continuing right-wing and CIA connections? See http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=David_L._Boren and read down to quoted article by Michael Phillip Wright. (Wright elsewhere has written that based on a conversation with a University librarian, in his view confirmed by the results of a FOIA request to the FBI, one of the hijackers' tickets was purchased via a machine at the OK University library.)

Finally, is it a coincidence that Norman, OK, is only about 7 miles out of Oklahoma City, site of the Federal Center bombing?

Just asking. Seems like Oklahoma crops up a lot for sparsely populated state. Correct me if I have any factual errors in here.

Posted by: Ex-Fed at May 14, 2004 11:25 PM

I bet once we all start really looking, we'll start noticing lots of white chairs in all the old Al-Queda videos clips,I'm going to dig out all my old osama videos, you probably remember the very popular "Kill the infidel" tapes, a sporadic mini-series that played on Al-Jazeera TV network, stamped for authenticity by our very own Cia? I bet we're probably going to see lots of them there. The white chairs they're just boggling my mind. Like imagine the enemy using the same white chairs we use. I mean could they be trying to obtain our weapons of mass comfort? Maybe they're finally ready for some chairs, maybe we could win this silly war by infiltrating this country with some lazy boys. And digital TV, but most of all, these middle-eatern guys could really use to have their national sport, like camel ball or something. They'd don't have anything like that and that would really help bring them democracy.

Posted by: suzanne at May 14, 2004 11:32 PM

I have no idea who killed him, but the reason given for Nick Berg's being in Iraq sounds odd all right. Are small businessmen sneaking into Iraq in droves, anticipating business opportunities? Not hardly.

Radio communications does sound like a good cover for an agent. It would get you access to places, communications technology, and opportunities to place surveillance equipment.

Curiouser and curiouser: Nick Berg studies for "a few weeks" at the University of Oklahoma in Norman, OK. Coincidentally, Zacharias Moussaoui studies at a flight school in Norman, OK. Berg coincidentally happens to lend his computer, and give his password, to an "acquaintance" of Moussaoui (first reported by the family to be Moussaoui himself, but the FBI says they never met).

Following the WTC disaster in which Moussaoui supposedly was set to be involved, the U.S. invades Iraq (non sequitur). Berg travels to Iraq, visits the prison where military intelligence is interrogating Iraqi prisoners, later gets picked up himself and is killed on tape.

Is it a coincidence that the president of the University of Oklahoma, David L. Boren, is a former U.S. Senator and Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee with extensive, continuing right-wing and CIA connections? See http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=David_L._Boren and read down to quoted article by Michael Phillip Wright. (Wright elsewhere has written that based on a conversation with a University librarian, in his view confirmed by the results of a FOIA request to the FBI, one of the hijackers' tickets was purchased via a machine at the OK University library.)

Finally, is it a coincidence that Norman, OK, is only about 7 miles out of Oklahoma City, site of the Federal Center bombing?

Just asking. Seems like Oklahoma crops up a lot for sparsely populated state. Correct me if I have any factual errors in here.

Posted by: CatNut at May 14, 2004 11:32 PM

Nick Berg was CIA.

Posted by: xxx at May 14, 2004 11:33 PM

When I first watched the video, something struck me as odd. The two guys standing at either end are awfully fidgety. Seems kind of odd that they would appear bored at something they are obviously passionate enough to commit murder over. Then I got to thinking, maybe they didn't understand the language that was spoken. Maybe they were just impatiently waiting to get it over with. They could be americans, or mercenaries. I wouldnt put it past the administration to do anything to win a propaganda war.

Posted by: Arkhayne at May 14, 2004 11:33 PM

Okay dozens of white lawn chairs and yellow walls in America....does Iraq have a Wal-mart..or a K-Mart?

Posted by: Chabuka at May 14, 2004 11:43 PM

Everything you wrote about is true. That's my opinion.

Posted by: vova at May 14, 2004 11:45 PM

Where can I get one of those orange jumpsuits from?

Posted by: blackdogzen at May 15, 2004 12:06 AM

Well I have to admit, these Bushies, do get some really almost unbelievable timing the way things always seem to happen to help take the public scutiny off of them. And the really amazing thing is that normally they keep our news clips squeaky clean so we don't ever have to see anything really like that. But they let us have that one. By letting that one through it jerked our one big emotional chain and conveiniently rallied everybody and suddenly a few naked pyramids and dog leases seem puny. I mean what are the odds, these Bush guys should be at the races, they are just always so lucky there is always something that conveniently happens to take our attention away from stuff.Like remember we had nothing but the Gary Condit story forcefed to us for weeks before 911 , but after 911 we never brought it up again. It's the timing of things, that's what I find the most appalling about everything. And it all plays out like a big game that's being played.Or maybe if just one scenario played out with all the facts in place is such impeccable order- well, then, maybe I could buy some of it, but nothing ever is as it seems. We're never given any real answers, ever, we're always given 40-60% non-feasible story. But, it's the timing of just everything that I find to be the most amazing thing. It all feels so completely artificial, manufactured, we're sold our reaction by design. God, I hope I'm wrong, I hope Bush is just lucky. Maybe he is, I mean he had the most charmed life, being born into wealth and the corporate elite, he even had the Texas Rangers for awhile, really fun toys, a good life to get born into, otherwise if he was born poor and didn't know anybody he'd be sitting out back of the doublewide, drinking old Milwalkee, after losing his job at Walmart and bitching about the government- just like the rest of us.Yeh he's probably just really lucky, that's it, I'm sure of it.

Posted by: suzanne at May 15, 2004 12:21 AM

If it is a real murder, it is horrible.
If it is a ploy, it is terrible.
The truth lies with the dead, or their murderers. Neither one are about to tell, and if someone did, no one will beleive'em any way.
I trust, things happen for reasons, at times not known, and other times not understood.
Every one eventually dies, and if there is the Devine justice, they will be held accountable.
I beleive in the God's will.

Posted by: syed at May 15, 2004 12:24 AM

The government and the CIA are playing us for fools.

Posted by: mike at May 15, 2004 12:26 AM

Indeed your research has its flaws. Unfortunately you people live in conspiracies and sometimes even when you raise valid points the society is so 'brain washed' they do not see it.
White chair: not a proof for anything. Gold ring: it is a SIN for man, and a muslim fighting for his beliefs wouldn't wear one, unlike all the other 'muslims' that wear them but also do not pray or follow other muslim obligations. So sorry for the people who had valid arguments that saw many 'muslim' with gold rings.
Bulletproof and whites: doesn't prove much. Besides Arabs are a white race.
However, ask yourselves why was that poor fellow imprisoned by your kind before the beheading?? why was he in the orange cloth (I doubt a 'terrorist" who intended to massacre someone would bother to dress him differently)?? why was he so calm?? and last but not least there is NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING Islamic about this beheading. On the contrary all Muslims condemned the act, inlcuding Heezbollah for God's sake!
Some food for thought: isn't it ironic this comes during this incrimination of the US military on the torture of the Iraqi prisoners and while Rumsfield was being 'prosecuted'. And for the ones who believe or bought the argument that this was to revenge the torture of the Iraqi prisoners I have a question: what should be the revenge for the murder of the 100s of Iraqi civilians??? Wake up people.

Posted by: Open Mind at May 15, 2004 12:48 AM

CIA... They can make mistakes too. For exemple, how do you think a passport can land almost intact on the gravels of 2 huge skyscrappers after going through an explosion and a lot of °F?

Posted by: melka at May 15, 2004 01:08 AM

This is stunning news, its not much of a shock.. there was something about this video clip that seemed to be off. One this that i noticed was indeed the chair, but we cant really say its the same chair.. does sound convincing enough. This is yet another case of Psychology Operations (PsyOP). A cover up or as you said an excuse to convice the people of "America" that the Torture @ Abu Graib is acceptable, becuase "we" just torture them, not kill them. And in that there is really nothing to be mad about. And what is it with this voice in the background at the end of the clip "thy will be done"::

Posted by: Play-Doh at May 15, 2004 01:15 AM

1) Fat, white fidgety terra'ists wearing tennis shoes, the leader of which:

a) is wearing the sort of large gold ring that is expressly forbidden in fundamentalist Islamic communities, and

b) starts cutting the head, but is replaced (as the camera time signatures change) by someone wearing a white head covering when it's time to show off the head.

2) Out of synch soundtrack and jumping time signatures on the video production.

3) A supposedly live beheading without any visibly spurting blood.

4) For the first time in recorded history, Arab terra'ists post a video of an atrocious murder on a website -- right in the middle of the Bush Administration's most damaging national scandal, a scandal driven completely by its own disgusting pictoral and video imagery.

5) Berg had been held in US custody (in the Abu Ghraib prison?) for two weeks without charge or access to phones or legal help just days before he was last heard from. And the US now denies this, despite the family's insistence and overwhelming evidence that he was indeed held in US custody.

6) Berg just happened to have an FBI file because he was somehow involved with the guy the US government calls 9/11's 20th hijacker.

7) Berg was an American Jew traveling alone in Iraq without a job. He reported that he was taking lots of pictures while clibing radio towers around the suburb of Abu Ghraib.

8) Ugly yellow paint, orange jumpsuits and, yes, white plastic Walmart chairs -- all of which appear in both the Berg video and the Abu Ghraib prison videos.

9) Zarqawi rises from the dead, has a letter fall into coalition hands that just happens to confirm everything BushCo is dreaming about the Iraqi situation, grows another leg, loses his Jordanian accent, puts on a forbidden gold ring, expressionlessly reads from a long speech that he's written in a mysterious mobius fashion across both sides of a single sheet of paper, decides to give up his hobby as a poison expert to get down and dirty with a dull knife, and carefully hides his face while screaming, "Yoo hoo - Zarqawi here!"

Yep, nothing to see here, folks. Nothing at all. Move along.
Did I miss anything, crazy tinfolers?


Posted by: stickdog at May 15, 2004 01:20 AM

PLEASE LEAVE THE QUESTION'S TO YOUR F.B.I AND TO MR. BUSH. THE POOR MAN IS NOW LAID TO REST NOW WHY CAN'T YOU LEAVE IT THE FUCK ALONE. HE'S FAMILY WILL GET THE HELP THEY NEED. NOT BY SOME MICKEY MOUSE I WANNA BE DETECTIVE. LET THE PEOPLE WITH KNOWLEDGE SORT IT OUT. MR. BERG'S FAMILY DOESEN'T NEED YOUR HELP. TYVVM FROM CANADA.

Posted by: Candace at May 15, 2004 01:22 AM

Who's the dumbass canadian saying we can't question the integrity of our government?
And what is the deal with our military in the first place lots of fucked up shit, all this video has come off as is a great drive at propaganda for the U.S. When I first saw the video it fueled a great desire in me that we need to anihilate the middle east, but after reading many articles about the videos real character I see that it seems like the U.S. government is the continual problem in this whole "war on terror". The beheading video if fake has become a great device in readying the country for the draft many young people are fired up about the brutality of the video and buy it as being real simply because its been shown as legit on the news. We all need to support an independent news source that goes deeper on finding what is truly legitiment. America is in a heap of turmoil and if this video is fake which all evidence seems to point towards then maybe America's great fall, and demise is in the near future.

Posted by: Steven at May 15, 2004 01:40 AM

Gold is definately forbidden for the men to wear.

Posted by: C at May 15, 2004 01:46 AM

Lots of discrepancies and thank you for noticing them. I read also that this guy remembered Nick Berg from a gym in Iraq. BUT - the guys clearly states that he had a red beard. Looking at all the other photos of him - even though his head is shaved - He looks like he's got ginger colour hair?

Please don't abuse me on this. Really.

Posted by: That would be me at May 15, 2004 01:48 AM

Sorry, just one more thing because I didn't see the post from the Canuck.

We, as Americans are entitled to question what has happened. Why are you so concerned anyway? Nobody forced you to go on this site. If you were that upset, surely you could have found something else to do?

Better yet, what if it was one of your own Canucks that this happened to?

This web shows that people are concerned, as they should be. Someone clever enough took the time out to view the video and notice the discrepancies.

Just because you come from a place that that really has no culture, class, or history is your problem. The only thing good to come out of Canada is the Maple Syrup.

Posted by: that would be me at May 15, 2004 02:04 AM

Gem: I don't believe there are dates on the video, just a time stamp. As for the blood situation, how do you respond to the comments made that the severed head did not appear to drip blood?

One theory offered up to explain the difference in time stamps is the use of two cameras. Unless the cameras were identical makes and models and the tapes were the same brand and batch, it is likely there would be a colour shift between the two sequences. There didn't appear to be any colour shifts in the first portion of the tape that I saw. (I have not seen the decapitation so I cannot comment on that segment.)

michael asked "why would al quaeda kill him and then fake his death for the camera? does this fit their mo?" And I would say it fits their m.o. in the sense that decapitating someone who is, initially, alive is much more dramatic than killing someone and then beheading a dead body. Perhaps there was a struggle, perhaps things hadn't gone as planned and they wanted the appearance of having complete control, so they edited out the bits that didn't reflect their control. I'm only trying to offer up a possible scenario for a "faked" video. There are, of course, other possibilities.

BS stated: "There are arteries in the neck that are capable of this "spurting" of blood, but they are much deeper with more tissue around them that would prevent this effect with such a slow cut. ... The slow cut allows the muscles around the arteries to contract and slow the blood flow as a measure of defense."

The carotid artery is located inside, but alongside the jugular vein. It isn't located significantly "deeper" than the jugular. While vasoconstriction is an autonomic response by the body to injury, there is no possibility of this occurring with the carotid artery to the degree that blood flow would slow to dribble. Even sedated there is still a great degree of pressure exerted from the heart as it pumps blood to the brain against the force of gravity.

The following picture illustrates blood loss from the carotid artery. Hockey player Clint Malarchuk received a neck cut from a hockey skate blade in 1989.

http://ceedeerom.bizhosting.com/dek/zone/clintmalarchuk.jpg

charlee: See my above comments. The spurting of blood happens with each beat of the heart. Lower blood pressure would not create "leaking". The brain stem is located at the base of the skull and is not a part of the anatomy of the neck. Depending on body size and weight, a gallon of blood would be close to the entire volume of blood contained in the human body.

The time stamp differences, the comments made about the lack of visible blood, and comments I have read about the out of sync audio are points that make me question the veracity of the sequence of events as presented on the tape. I also question why al-Zarqawi would identify himself audibly, yet cover his head in the video. It doesn't quite make sense, though by itself it isn't enough to condemn the video.

YA'LL SURE IT WASN'T US: Horrific. Rape of an adult female is unconscionable, but a child? If this is true and military are responsible...words can't describe.

Posted by: amorphous cloud at May 15, 2004 02:08 AM

http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/

it's only me
can you not see
or ever believe
the hurt and pain
of the berg family?

These men did a job
in the name of their God
with shouts of Allah
the promise of
Al-queda not God.

They believe what the do
they'd come after you
there's still work to do
but it's a war no one
comes out scarred and abused.

they'd be over here
but right now they are there
so stop first and care
he could have been your
brother, friend, or more.

the government is strange
perhaps even to blame
but not in the same
manner you choose to
and distrust and biting make us lame.

nothing will win faith
with the muslim "race"
not even to embrace
the beliefs they believe in.
they'd annihilate us out of this place.

don't be mistaken by them
they are backward thinking men
against profit seeking men
but innocense is lost
we can't go back again.

Posted by: it's only me at May 15, 2004 02:12 AM

"Is there missing footage? Was it really a person or a dummy after the clock jumps in the footage. Special effects could be involved.
What do you think?"

Yeah, I had this thought too. I didn't see much blood, there was some but not as much as I would have expected. I also thought that the guy seemed just a little too calm. Never noticed the clock thing though, I'll have to watch it again. Good points.

Posted by: Tony at May 15, 2004 02:50 AM

Why aren't you also questioning why they have video cameras and access to the internet? We've seen terrorists use these devices before, have you also questioned their legitimacy before?

If they can get electronic equipement wouldn't it also be fairly easy to get plastic chairs and orange clothing?

Posted by: Brad at May 15, 2004 03:02 AM

I own that chair. I guess that means I both tortured all those Iraqi prisoners and killed Berg. That's no small feat, considering that I live in the US.

Posted by: anon at May 15, 2004 03:17 AM

Here we go, did a who is search on the website where the video was posted, just gets more interesting.
khilafah.com Back-order this name

Registrant:
Al-Khilafah Publications (KHILAFAH2-DOM)
Suite 298
56 Gloucester Road
London SW7 4UB
GB

Domain Name: KHILAFAH.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Al-Khilafah Publications (22717833O) abdul.kareem@btopenworld.com
Suite 298
56 Gloucester Road
London SW7 4UB
GB
999 999 9999 fax: 999 999 9999

Record expires on 20-Sep-2005.
Record created on 21-Sep-1996.
Database last updated on 15-May-2004 06:31:08 EDT.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS7.ZONEEDIT.COM 216.111.123.5
NS12.ZONEEDIT.COM 64.246.26.64

Posted by: Bob X at May 15, 2004 03:35 AM

Follow up on last post. Checked on btopenworld.com

btopenworld.com Back-order this name

Registrant:
BRITISH TELECOMMUNICATIONS PLC (BTOPENWORLD-DOM)
81 NEWGATE STREET
LONDON, GREATER LONDON EC1A 7AJ
GB

Domain Name: BTOPENWORLD.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
British Telecommunications plc (BS38-ORG) dnsreg@BT.COM
PP TKS/F18/01 Trunk Exchange Sth
109-117 Long Rd
Cambridge, Cambs CB2 2HG
UK
+44 1223 840711 fax: - +44 1223 358474

Record expires on 20-Mar-2005.
Record created on 20-Mar-2000.
Database last updated on 15-May-2004 06:36:53 EDT.

Domain servers in listed order:

DNS1.BTINTERNET.COM 194.73.73.172
DNS2.BTINTERNET.COM 194.73.73.173
DNS4.BTINTERNET.COM 217.32.252.25
DNS3.BTINTERNET.COM 217.32.252.225

Posted by: Bob X at May 15, 2004 03:40 AM

someone metnioned that the guy doesnt look like Nick - it must be since it was funeral ,i am sure parents would know if this is not their son lying in coffin...

also the question is repeteadly asked why have mask if you give away your identity(Zarqawi) - it is like someone suggested - maybe he had facial surgery,maybe he was wounded in attack and has facial scar that would make him easily identifiable etc..

some theories are interesting,I hope we will learn the truth one day...

Posted by: iraq at May 15, 2004 04:23 AM

THIS FORUM PROVES THAT THE DIVIDE AND CONQUER TACTIC IS WORKING ON WE AMERICANS.

CONTINUED AND PROLIFIC POSTING OF THE REDICULOUS HAS US FIGHTING AMONGST OURSELVES.

SOME PEOPLE ARE SO WILLING DUE TO THEIR INTERNET BRAINWASHING, THAT THEY ARE MORE THAN HAPPY TO BLAME AMERICA FIRST.

HELL, THE TERRORISTS DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO EXPLODE A BOMB - JUST IMPLODED YOUR MINDS.

GET A GRASP ON WHAT IS BELIEVABLE AND WHAT IS B.S.

Posted by: RAZZ at May 15, 2004 04:27 AM

Mate, no offence but maybe you should really go back to Primary 3 and learn how to spell properly. My 7 year old son with ADD can string a sentence better than you can. Actually, I think I can string a sentence together whilst I'm pissed.

Before you go off on someone and take the piss, maybe you should actually learn how to spell properly. Crikey, and why on earth are you on the internet at 3 in the morning?

WANKER

Posted by: Ham Ga Cha at May 15, 2004 04:28 AM

Oh, and whilst you're at it. Look up in Chinese what my name means.

Posted by: Ham Ga Cha at May 15, 2004 04:30 AM

TO WHOM ARE YOU REFERRING TO HAM GA CHA ?

Posted by: RAZZ at May 15, 2004 04:38 AM

The chair is the same??
I have that chair.
Maybe I killed Berg.
These type chairs are available worldwide because they are stackable and cheap as hell.

Posted by: Will Rock at May 15, 2004 04:42 AM

That would be you - Razz.

And, to Will 'bloody' Rock - in Asia, those chairs are absolutely NOT cheap. Don't know where you live but not where I am. I think just one costs about 24 US.

Posted by: Ham Ga Cha at May 15, 2004 04:46 AM

I AM IN IRAQ RIGHT NOW AND EVERYONE HERE HAS WHITE CHAIRS AND YELLOW WALLS. ALL WALLS ARE ONE SHADE OF YELLOW OR ANOTHER. IT COULD BE ANYBODY. WE HAVE 12 WHITE CHAIRS ON OUR ROOF AS I SPEAK AND WE ALSO HAVE YELLOW WALLS SO MAYBE SOMEONE BERG WAS HERE. OMG!

Posted by: GILADY at May 15, 2004 05:14 AM

And how funny is this? I just tried to send you an email but your account doesn't exist.

CUNT

Posted by: Ham Ga Cha at May 15, 2004 05:45 AM

After reading this. I feel dumber. To quote:

"Everyone in this room is now dumber from having heard your story. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul."

Posted by: ShaDs at May 15, 2004 05:52 AM

Ham Ga Cha: You have some anger management problems and some insecurities. You go on about how Razz should grow up and how you are going to hurt him. Good on you. I've seen your kind before. I like the term "Bullshit Artist." You claim to have 2 masters, triad friends and a retarted son. This doesn't make me sway towards your point of view in anyway. I see this as gloating, well the first two points anyway. The third point is a sympathy vote. It also didn't work, i don't know you. I can also guarantee that 99% of other people on this board don't know you, so why would they care is your son is mentally disabled? My last point is that you don't articulate your self as a person with a high intelligence (ie: having completed two masters) would.

In conclusion, take your head out of your arse. Because noone around here appreciates your stupidity.

Posted by: ShaDs at May 15, 2004 06:06 AM

Those who say 'for now we have to stand behind this administration...'

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official, save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country. In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth, whether about the president or anyone else"
- Theodore Roosevelt

http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html
http://www.chickenhawkcards.com/

Posted by: Raze at May 15, 2004 06:08 AM

well, i am sure that US goverment could find lots of DNA evidence of killers after body examination.

Posted by: f at May 15, 2004 06:27 AM

Don't know what's fact or crap, but the blood scene in the Berg video is very similar to the blood scene in the Daniel Pearl video.

Posted by: YinYang at May 15, 2004 06:29 AM

ROON, I DON'T WANT TO ENTER IN THIS ONGOING SLANDER THAT IS APPARENTLY HAPPENING ON THIS PAGE. I CANNOT BELITTLE OURSELVES TO THAT EXTENT. HOWEVER, YOUR STATEMENT "Why should the americans kill one of their own?" IS SOMEWHAT NAIVE. THIS IS NOT AN INSULT. I'M JUST TRYING TO SAY SOMETHING HERE THAT ALL OF US NEED TO TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT. I'M NOT SAYING BERG WAS KILLED BY THE US NOR AM I SAYING HE WAS NOT. BUT,PLEASE DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE CIA DOESN'T DO SUCH THINGS. YES I BELIEVE MARC COULD HAVE DONE SOME MORE RESEARCH BUT THIS BEHEADING IS CAUSING MORE THAN JUST MARC TO LOOK CLOSER INTO THE MATTER. THE CIA IS DIRTY AND WORSE THAN WE CAN IMMAGINE. YOU DO REMEMBER OLIVER NORTH?

Posted by: Vinnie at May 15, 2004 06:30 AM

Um, hello to ShadS - I never said I had 2 masters. You've seen my kind,doubtful. If you can't even get your facts straight don't think you have a clue.

God Bless Nick Berg and his family.

Posted by: Ham Ga Cha at May 15, 2004 06:30 AM

I think the above comments are horrendous.

Yes, obviously the person is upset about her son being insulted. BUT there is a greater picture here, which is what the hell is going on?

After seeing the video, I also have questions, and I am not an American.

I think everyone needs to sort out the anger management issues and get on with it and get to the truth.

People deal with things in very different ways. That's our nature. Some tend to insult each other when really, let's look at why we are here? We are absolutely astounded by this video and want answers. Nothing wrong with that.

At the end of the day, you are all Americans. You don't want this thing to happen again EVER.

Who cares about this or that or "my son has ADD". Someone lost their life. It's tragic. Regardless of whether or not he was already dead is besides the point. The guy is dead. Nothing will bring him back.

Posted by: My thoughts at May 15, 2004 06:42 AM

So president Bush is the worst leader ever in world history. Who the hell are you people to have any say in that. I'd like to see any of you do any better. This is not President Bush, nor Rumsfelds fault.This isn't a conspiracy, you all are bored, paranoid losers with nothing else better to do. Get a life. Vote Bush!

Posted by: wounded soldier at May 15, 2004 06:44 AM

No.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2004 06:49 AM

Of the images of Vietnam, what do you remember? The naked girl running from napalm? The soldier who took a bullet in his head? Poor Lynndie England, she will go down in history as what we remember and so will the dude with electrodes attached. I am certain the Berg killing will foster revengeful hatred and legitimacy toward the occupation for the eye-for-an-eye whack jobs. Most viewers, I believe, will take it as another reason to end this illegal occupation made to look like war against terrorists.

Posted by: Compassionate Conservative at May 15, 2004 06:58 AM

Some thought experiments:

The Orange "jumpsuit":

1. (Seething terrorist:) "Mama, I got this fabric at the al-Sadr market this morning. Can you sew me a jumpsuit? I'll do you a drawing: like that. All in one piece."

Mama: "gngngning gningni ngni ini inignigniii i i i?"

Son: "My size, just like my size. A bit bigger though."

Mama: "Inigngi nyingiii i iniinyeyini?"

Son: "That's fine Mama. Just how you said, do it that way. Thanks Mama."

Later:

"I can't get into it. How do you get your ass through the neck opening? How do I go to the toilet in this thing? Mama, can you fix it? OK, so you told me that, you said that before. I didn't know what you meant to say, I'm sorry, Mama. Make the pants separate, then. Hurry."

Later:

"Mama! you don't have to hem it by hand! Give me that thing: it's finished, OK? Thanks Mama, get some sleep, Mama."

******

2. (Shelley Berman:) "Yeah, well I know: the sub[contractor] screwed up. We've got twenty thousand of these suckers and we paid way over market for 'em. ...What?...erm, Halliburton billed us twenty dollars apiece...I know. I know. I KNOW! Israelis sub contracted - yeah! I KNOW - to Bangladeshis and they .. I dunno what they did, so don't ask me...yeah: they got 'em wholesale. I don't know! Don't ASK!! but it's hot in there and they stink like Chinese takeout, so go figure... They're taking up space and we can't use them, so just truck 'em out. I don't give a f**k WHAT happens to them. Get rid of them!!!"

Any Halliburton shareholders objecting? They wouldn't, would they?

*******

3. May 9 [?] 13:00 "Put this on and wait here." So he did. Poor Mr Berg.

Technically isn't a "jumpsuit". However, design critera "evolve" quite freely along the feeding chain of sub-contractors ("new" Iraqi schools, for example, are still swamped in raw sewage - but the walls have been painted; has this caused a polemic? On the scale of the prison jumpsuit? Why not? Because all the Iraqi kids are damaged by DU and far too shaken by the US' infamous Atrocity Doctrine to be able to sit still in school? )

We all recognize the garment as a US prison jumpsuit, therefore it is a US prison jumpsuit. Does anyone wear orange pyjamas - besides metaphorically, at present? How it actually got to look that way in the Iraqi Disneyland of Free Enterprise is anyone's guess.

Mr Berg is wearing a US prison jumpsuit because he was in US custody. The poor woman working in Iraq on behalf of the State Department (the only one they've got) e-mailed he was in US custody, he told his friends he was in US custody - though in Mosoul, where the police chief has never heard of him, and he told his father he was in US custody. The Bush Administration says he wasn't. Hum.

This is the game they most enjoy: IMplausible denial. It puts the Mock in democracy.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The White Plastic lawnchair:

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040505/capt.bag11105051711.iraq__bag111.jpg
Iraqi men watch in a cafe in downtown Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites), Wednesday, May 5, 2004 U.S. President's Bush interview on Arab television chanel Al Jazeera. Bush said in the interview that the treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison was 'abhorrent' and does not represent 'the America that I know.' (AP Photo/Khalid Mohammed).

NOTE: See also "Texas Prisons" for the "America Bush Does Know", Amnesty International has repotrted on those.

I fell for it, but then I don't get out much. Not to cookouts, cheap restos, US prisons or anywhere, much. There's someone else who is sure to have some though and he has big a ranch in Crawford, TX.

So those of us who bumbled on the white plastic lawnchair do know this: there were no WMD's in Iraq or Saddam would have used them to prevent a US invasion. The US invaded because they knew there were no WMD's. The list of abandonned casus belli is endless.

So, unless viewed from a completely different perspective, it's meaningless. But you buy these chairs at WallMart, right? Now that's not meaningless.


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The beard:

People have beard patterns, some are very pretty and others are not. It isn't a sign of guilt by association with terrorists that a beard grows one way or another: its a minor genetic trait. All Middle Eastern people are grouped by anthropoligists under the designation of "semitic". Middle Eastern languages are "semitic" until sub-groups are defined.
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Mr Berg worked on the sound system for the 2000 Republican Convention which selected George W. Bush. Someone in the Bush Campaign knows and has dealt with him: he's been on their payroll. His deceased sister was married to an Iraqi, an exile from the Hussein régime, presumably. You start turning over old turf, here, related to times when the Mujaheddine were the good guys....our guys in the field in Afghanistan. These old plots/strategies/conspiracies have blown back several times over.

Although he's being painted as a spy, one ought to consider that he felt quite comfortable chasing down one or another of the Israeli sub-contractors to whom 90% of the work in Iraq is being let; I'm satisfied with this hypothesis. He felt as though he was a working part of the Bush régime, so off he went to Iraq.

In January 04 he shinnied up the communications' masts of Abu Ghraib prison, to fiddle with connections and fix it. Who wanted this work done? One of the Halliburton "security" sub-contractors, motivated by professional rivalry with the other/s? One observes many "professional" groups milling about in Abu Ghraib, whose interests conflict sharply - and right there you have an undefinable number of people whose savagery and carelessness in promoting themselves and their agendas is, to say the very least, extraordinary.

As for CIA efficiency and the Agency's presumed ability to "put together a more coherent presentation than this" - pre-Invasion Intelligence, anyone? The Chinese Embassy in Belgrade? Aldrich Ames? Oliver North in White House basement? The Saving & Loan disaster? The only thing it wants to protect is its' ougrageous budget.

Posted by: Her at May 15, 2004 07:29 AM

Daro B:

Regarding your term "Orthodox Christians". I think you're mixing them up with "fundamentalist" or "evangelical" Christians.

The majority of Christians of the Middle East are Orthodox Christians -- that is, they are the Christians who remain from the earliest apostolic churches. They have not "twisted" anything but remained true to that apostolic vision, unlike say, American fundamentalists like Falwell or Robertson. And they are more tolerant and ecumenical in their philosophy of Christianity -- Orthodox Christians are anti-fundamentalist: they don't claim that everybody has to believe exactly the same thing.

Posted by: j at May 15, 2004 07:29 AM

Conspiracy? Possibly, but we may never know. I also noticed that there was no visible blood gushing. What intrigued me more is that the "terrorist" reading the script pulled out the knife. Somehow...when NB's head is finally removed from the body it is by the "terrorist" wearing the white scarf. When did the switch occur?

Posted by: wtf at May 15, 2004 07:45 AM

Don't you think if the CIA was going to broadcast this video all over the world as some kind of testament to the evil of the Iraqi people and therefore validate their entire mission they would be a little bit more careful? If this was a fake video, I could have done it better myself, the CIA is not that stupid. By the way, I have those same chairs too...Did I kill him??

Posted by: Lindsay Fair at May 15, 2004 07:54 AM

JimK gold is forbidden to men in Islam, you are wrong.

http://www.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/the_lawful_and_prohibition_in_islam/ch2s2p2-1.htm

Salam

Posted by: Salam at May 15, 2004 08:20 AM

My 2 cents:

As soon as Myers confirmed the murderer's identity, I knew this was a lie. Remember Myers was the Joint Chiefs of Staff member who sat in his office as the WTC towers AND the Pentagon were hit. Could American security be so bad that Myers wouldn't be moving the second the planes were highjacked, let alone on his lap?

Gold - definite no-no for Islamic men. Why would a fundamentalist Muslim risk alienating his 'followers' just to look all bling-bling?

The same can be said for Atta on 9-11. Why would a Muslim risk his trip to 'paradise' and his family's reputation by drinking and getting lap dances the day before his 'martyrdom'? And use a credit card with his true identity to boot?

As for Mr. Berg, obviously my condolences go out to his family, however we should not stop discussing the anomalies of the video of his death because he has died. We all owe it to the Berg's and eachother to try to uncover the truth. My own observations:

1. He looks awfully calm, given the nature of his predicament. Easily could be drugged, of course.

2. Lack of blood - the Clint Malarchuk photo shows the type of blood loss that would be evident. Additionally Berg would have had adrenaline surging through his veins and his heart would be racing, pumping out blood at an incredible rate.

3. The gold ring - as stated above. And why would he wear a mask if he was to be named in the video's release?

4. The CNN Arab translator stating that Al-Qaeda was NOT said by the speaker, and he was not speaking with a Jordanian accent.

http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_crime&Number=1468521

And finally - who does this video benefit?
Muslims and Arabs - who after suffering persecution everywhere since 911 were finally getting some compassion thanks to those torture photos?

OR

The American administration, who were suffering badly after release of the same photos. With the Berg video release calls immediately came (from CNN no less) to hold back any other torture photos, to prevent the retaliation 'proven' with the Berg video.

Posted by: jimmytango at May 15, 2004 08:31 AM

It is truly unfortunate that most of these responses are not adressing the video but are ranting attacks on eachother. Also, the white chair should not be the focus as there are so many obvious clues in the video. I have watched it repeatedly even though I usually cannot even stay in the room while violence such as this is being shown in movies etc. This video is so clearly faked it's not even upsetting. No one seems to have noticed that Berg's mouth is moving
as if he were talking as he is seated on the floor and that the head never moves even slightly to left or right, up or down- nothing, and the legs and feet never wobble or move in any way even when the torso gives that spasmodic jerk. The movement of the "killers" however seems normal. My theory is that Berg was killed at some time after he was released from US custody, I don't know why or by who. The first part, when he is talking while seated in the chair was probably filmed at the prison. When his body was found the "brilliant" CIA types (you know, the ones who decided to capture all their torture on camera!)decided to make Berg's death serve to deflect attention fron the torture scandal and back on hating "terrorists" where it belongs. I think the head of Berg in the chair picture was superimposed on the headless body propped up in the video- that's why it looks so odd and why the lips are moving. The jerks were perhaps caused by an unseen push of the body or by digital special effects like those that produced the living head on the lifeless body. The screams are so badly timed that if nothing else blew the authenticity this surely would- who's screaming? certainly not Berg who continues to look straight ahead with no reaction. The lack of spurting blood from the severed cartoid and no draining from the severed head all mean that Berg was dead long before this "horrific" video was shot. Finally, that neck, and the orange jumpsuit sure look very clean of any blood (talk about your neat murders!) The media are not censoring this video because it is so horrible that people couldn't bear it but because it's so horribly fake that nobody would be left to believe the storyline they've supplied.

Posted by: cknope at May 15, 2004 08:35 AM

Although I'm decided neither way, it cannot be denied that there are some quite strange things about this video. The point about the blood may in fact be quite valid. Take a look at a Chechnyan propaganda video on ogrish.com (not pretty, I can assure you) and compare the amount of blood with that coming from Nick Berg. Severing the Jugular vain would surely cause much more of a mess to a live victim than that....Also, not sure about anyone else, but to me, the guy in the video looks a hel of a lot different from the pictures we are being shown of Berg. Once again, I'm not saying it's fake, it's just a bit odd

Posted by: James Waring at May 15, 2004 08:47 AM

The video sounds pretty fake. Ill have to see it to make my own judgment. If these facts about the video you people have been sayin are indeed true, something about this video reeks of bullshit. (But i dont buy the chair and wall bullshit). It seems odd that during his own beheading berg didnt struggle too much and there was no gush of blood when his head was supposedly "cut off".

Posted by: jay at May 15, 2004 08:55 AM

are we all blind to see that all of the presidents of america where just puppets in the hands of the New World Order? yes ppl , thats whats going on here . Bush is beeing controlled by the NWO just like the CIA and the FBI . their goal is to takeover the world by propaganda and controlling all the assets in the rich middle east and at the sametime wipe out the natives. Don´t get me wrong , this organisation is old. they tried it once before in Vietnam, nixon failed as a puppet. Now they try it again in Iraq. It doesnt matter if u take out Bush or the CIA or whomever , this NWO organisation is behind everything.

Posted by: me at May 15, 2004 09:06 AM

I see the chairs as being similar, but definitely different. The arms of Berg's chair form an outward vee, while Pfc England's chair arms appear pretty much straight up and down. Something doesn't sit well with me about the whole Berg story, but I don't think the US is involved.

Posted by: Just Myopinion at May 15, 2004 09:19 AM

Those of you who don't ask questions but blindly accept everything you're told or read are the most un-american of all or just disturbed fucks who justify the hurt or killing you've done for big business by saying ra ra ra all the time. Which politician has their kids in the front line over there? Let's get out of this region. The jews and arabs will always be at each others throats and greedy diplomats will always be willing to assist whoever has the clout by sending our kids to die for their fucked-up ambitions!

Posted by: uncle sam at May 15, 2004 09:20 AM

Hey ME you are on to the bigger picture here however, some Presidents are more willing or inclined to go along with what you call NWO and Bush is one of them. Not only Bush but Cheney, Wofewitz, Liby, and many others in this current administration. You are correct in calling presidents puppets but some have more intellectual ability to control things and not make such a mess like Bush is. People, please get of of the chair thing, it is redundant and shows a lack of creativity. I think Marc was trying to stir up some controversial thought not insult. Everyone tries there best but not might be as articulate as others. All this slashing out at each other just proves what a violent country America has evolved into being. And by the way, for those that will answer me "don't you think the terrorist are violent?" Yes I do but, we started this unjust war in a land that had absolutely nothing to do with 911 or WMD. Remember, Saddam was also incarcerating fundamentalists! That's what was in the majority of his jails of which we blew up all the administrative paper work of when we invaded Iraq during the first few days of the war. WHY BLOW UP THE MAGISTRATE BUILDING FULL OF RECORDS??THINK! WE BLEW UP THE MAJORITY OF ALL TRACEABLE EVIDENCE OF WHO WAS WHO AND WHO WAS IN BED WITH SADDAM!!

Posted by: Vinnie at May 15, 2004 09:25 AM

Dude, I beleive this, because as soon as I saw it I pointed out to my parents that it didnt look real, his head was too.. sharp compared to the rest, his expressions seem motorized, and like many have said before, he was too damn calm.
I am sending this to everybody I can.

Posted by: Shawn Langhans at May 15, 2004 09:30 AM

Remember that when all this stuff is occuring in the foreground, there are other things working in the background and that is what we should be concerned with. The STORY that is not being told.....

Everyone on both sides knows this all comes down to two things- MONEY AND POWER. Since the dawn of time, men have been murdered for MONEY AND POWER. This is nothing new, the only thing new is the power to expose it with video and cameras.

I think that everyone who has posted on this board should be commended because they have expressed their opinion, and that is our choice, regardless of whether we like it or not, we can express our view(For The Moment). Even as we speak there are bills being considered to silence our voice on certain issues and attack our educational institutions for their free speech. America would not be a nation without the free speech of the patriots and revolutionaries who fought for her and is that not what we are doing here and now?

Speak loudly and speak often, tell all the people you can tell what is happening today in America. Back up what you say with facts and always check those facts yourself, the internet is filled with alot of opinions, but very few facts.

Posted by: DogDay at May 15, 2004 09:33 AM

Funny how people are wondering why Nick was in Iraq to begin with...

*He was a civilian contractor. Contractors go wherever the military go, it's very common.

*I am former military police and I know those are not bullet proof vests, the vests they are wearing are ammo vests.

*Personally, I don't know what beheading video you watched, but I definitely saw blood.

*You've got to be crazy to think that IF indeed this was an elaborate conspiracy covered up by the C.I.A., that there wouldn't be agents standing in line to expose the truth.

Posted by: prada moppet at May 15, 2004 09:38 AM

Does the IP address of the web site match the regionally allocated addresses for civillian servers in Iraq? Or part of a mil block? Or is it in Langley?

What is the IP address of the server, and what's the traceroute?

Posted by: computer guy at May 15, 2004 09:42 AM

To be honest Marc (not like anyone else commenting here was holding anything back) a lot of your clues here are weak, I don't need to elaborate why, some seemingly intelligent people have already delineated that for me here.

But I also think that everyone is ignoring the macro side of this controversy, more specifically: Motive. Something as public as this is inherently political, I wont, no I refuse to get into another debate about the morality of using such a tragedy for political gain. Both sides do it, blahblahblah..

But for anyone who IS disgusted at attempts to use this for such purposes, read the second paragraph of this recent NYtimes.


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/13/politics/13ABUS.html


People are noticing shrub's misdirection tactics. And although I dont agree with you on this one Marc (you're really out there), I applaud the 24/7 bullsh|t watch that America is taking up toward the bush regime.

Posted by: PleaseGodVoteKerry at May 15, 2004 09:55 AM

I noticed the hands looked awful "white", and what looks like tennis shoes, and the stance of the two on the end look like USA military stance.
No blood.
The height would be interesting to match with the five of USA intell military soldiers.
The man second to the end on our right looks black from his actions in the video and the way he is standing.

If the government comes after you, then you will know you are on to something. :)

Posted by: mary at May 15, 2004 09:59 AM

I'm not going to partake in the nondsensical arguments most are. I am just glad that not EVERYONE is stupid...Don't believe what you are told people...find out for yourself. On with the dissent!

Posted by: al simmons at May 15, 2004 10:01 AM

You have got to be the stupid person alive Marc. And you do what for a living. There is so many holes in your story that it isn't even funny. He identified himself by name and wore a mask because he doesn't want to know what he looks like now. Saddam had 12 people that looked just like him. There not wearing bullet proof vests. Notice that Berg's sleeves are 4-6inches longer than the prison garb. And that what he is wearing is shining. Last time I checked cotton doesn't shine. And they don't look to white to me in the video. Also how the F*** would CNN know what he sounds like. Do they hag out with him, have tea together. And finally they believe that he didn't loose his leg and that was just a plot to get him into Iraq without getting caught.

DON'T QUIT YOUR DAY JOB!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Jay at May 15, 2004 10:05 AM

With comments like Jay's, we can all see the ignorance seething...

Posted by: al simmons at May 15, 2004 10:11 AM

Bob x: "Follow up on last post. Checked on btopenworld.com...".
I am not a computer literate person. What does this stuff that you posted mean? Thanks....

Posted by: mary at May 15, 2004 10:19 AM

im still very skeptical, and i did have a really good question to ask you guys but i have forgotton it now. other questions that im wondering

When head is held up for the camera it is about 1min 30sec after the beheading started. No blood is seen dripping at all. I was just wondering if anyone here is of medical expertise, what do they think about that. Is that perfectly normal, obviously the main blood flow would be from the neck.

both the videos ive seen are very bad quality. All the copies showed by the news have the distinctively orange jumpsuit. Mine appears a dull purple/blue. Just wondering if anyone can link me to the video with orange the jumpsuit colour. In my video it is near impossible to distinguish blood from the dark floor.

in terms of him been alive, well i think defanatly when he is sitting on the floor for the speech. He moves a number of times, both legs, torse and head. He does appear very clam. ive heard contraidcting reports saying he did speak and understnad arabic, and that he did not speak and undersntad arabic. Which one???

and that voice at the end, whoo thats defanatly something worth looking into.

Posted by: Rohan at May 15, 2004 10:21 AM

just remembered my question.

surely an autopsy was carried out once the body was found and on its way home. My quary is would the a) time of death be able to be calcualted and b)how death occured be able to be comfirmed.

Im guessing if he was sedated or something, then surly there would be traces in his blood if it.
i guess add on to that the DNA of the killers as someone has already mentioned. Or did they wash the body before throwing it out??

Posted by: Rohan at May 15, 2004 10:25 AM

Okay I don't buy this stuff. With that being said, the wall color choices in Iraq are probably limited - Saddam Hussien Brown, Baath Party Blue, etc. (You get the point). The vest have already been covered they aren't bullet proof vests. You can't really distinguish racial information due to the poor photo quality. So the "Fat white guy" theory is off base. The white chair is far fetched. And now on the orange jump suit.

Okay for all you truth seekers out there, open another browser window up and go to Google.com.
Type in the words "orange jumpsuit" and then press enter. Notice that it comes back with 38,000 possible links. So is it possible that the terrorist did just what I said to do.

For the lazy conspiracy theorists who don't believe it I'll give one of the first links from the Google search.

http://store.yahoo.com/brandsonsale-store/adult-womens-prison-jumpsuit-costume.html

$46.99 plus shipping and handling, notice if you don't want orange you can select one of three colors. Even white if you want to coordinate with your chair.

Somethings are odd about what happened but it's a stretch go state it was done by the CIA. Someone said that Marc Perkel was only giving other possible options but it was presented as a fact not an opinion. That is what is wrong with his point.

Posted by: Rob M. at May 15, 2004 10:36 AM

Nimrod52: I resent that! Don't call us names when you can't even type coherently! Not all Americans are sheep, by the way.

Posted by: al simmmons at May 15, 2004 10:38 AM

I don't think so Marc. There's a lot of atrocities out there - including dragging the burning bodies through Fallujah - that I don't think we need to manufacture any new ones to inflame anything.

Second, if it was done by us, then why insist it was al-Zarqawi? To create a new "enemy"? Because we'd really create a trap. All al-Zarqawi would have to do is go on TV and disclaim any connection with the incident and state that it was really us that did it. Then you can watch the sh*t hit the fan as it gets researched big-time.

And I don't view the chair as proof - you can get those things everywhere, and in fact, you'd want something generic so as to not give off clues as to location, etc.

But the interesting thing, though, is the question of just who this Berg guy was. Apparently he was investigated post-9/11 for having some connection to Moussaoui (sp?) - the excuse was that they sat together on a train and Moussaoui borrowed his laptop or something - sounds marginal but apparently he was eventually dropped as a suspect, but now he shows up in Iraq and since he's known to the FBI, he's picked up again for questioning.

So, if he did have ties, he'd probably be the easiest one to convince our guys to do it on, but as I said, it'd be such a high-profile event that the cover could be blown pretty easily and the backlash would be incredible. I like a good conspiracy as much as the next guy, but I'm not sure this one cuts it.

Posted by: Tab at May 15, 2004 10:38 AM

Also while I was looking at similar props,
if you look at the pic with Berg sitting down on the floor, enlarge it a little. You will see a green color at the right side.
If you look at one of the pictures with England, she was pointing to the two guys with the sack over their heads, the color of the walls and the green trim on the doors match.
If you dowload the photos and compare the paint to the prison paint it doesn't help one to think the USA did not do this murder.

I thought the same thing for two days prior to admitting it, It seems it cannot be ruled out.
The timing, the clock, the previous abuse, now the settings, the chair, the jump suit.
They may have killed him prior to the cutting off the head. That would have been very bloody.
I am trying to see if the floor matches in any of the photos, that would be the last straw.

Posted by: Mary at May 15, 2004 10:43 AM

HAHA

Posted by: JAY at May 15, 2004 10:45 AM

Just wanted to put my 2 cents in.... Makes sense to me that it is strange and needs more explaination because... ok if I were in a conspiracy of some sort on the US side and teamed up with a bunch of other people to kill some american and film a video of the event for propaganda purposes... lets see... the time lapse factor - I think after the lapse he was already dead... they dubbed the sound over that portion because it doesnt match any of the "moving" (or non moving as it were) parts of Nick Berg while he is getting chopped in the neck. Maybe they had to edit the sound because Nick Berg was screaming something about "hey you guys are americans!! what the fuck are you doing to me?" Also if this were true, and you did murder someone in their own clothes and then had to shoot an edited version of the event, you would have to find something that you would have ready access to in order to cover the blood on his original clothing for the filming of the video... lets see.. what would that be now... oh maybe an orange prison jumpsuit!!

Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2004 10:50 AM

Almost forgot the chair is suppose to be in Abu Ghraib which if I'm correct is in Baghdad. The reports state that he was detained in Mosul (approx. 200 miles away from Baghdad). So his detention was not in the same location. He was seen in Baghdad but there were no indication that he was picked up again by the US in Baghdad.

Posted by: Rob M. at May 15, 2004 10:50 AM

White Chairs: I have 4 green chairs like that. But I could have chosen white if I wanted them.

White hands: Probably has that skin disese like Michael Jackson.

Gold ring: I blew up that part of the picture. There is an inscription but you can only read part of it as you can not see the whole ring. It says "One ring to...". I can only guess what the rest might say."

Right wing/ CIA conspiracy: I know the CIA to be deceitful and coniving so that is no problem to believe.
But, President Bush is another matter. He is a politician and politicians lie all the time. But he is a christian and christians never lie. Do they? It's confusing.

TTFN~SS

Posted by: Simple Siman at May 15, 2004 11:00 AM

THE FIVE MEN IN THE VIDEO ARE NOT IRAQI TERRORRISTS BECAUSE OF THEIR CLOTHING.
1. ON THEIR HEADS ONE IS WEARING A SKIMASK AND TWO OF 'M ARE WEARING P.L.O. RAGS.
2. THREE OF THEM ARE NOT WEARING BULLETPROOFVESTS BUT AMMOVEST , ALSO USED BY ISRAELIEN/PALASTINE SUICIDEBOMBERS
3.THE BLACK CLOTHES ..ALSO A TRADEMARK OF SUICIDEBOMBERS IN THE MIDDLEEAST
4. THE SHOES.. WHITE SHOES ON A IRAQI ? IRAQI DONT WANT WESTERN STUFF, THEY ARE AGAINST IMPERIALISME AND KAPITALISM

MY GUESS IS THAT SOMEONE IS TRYING TO COVER UP SOMETHING , I KNOW FOR SURE THAT THOSE GUYS IN THE VIDEO ARE NOT IRAQI BECAUSE AN IRAQI IS MORE PASSIONNED ABOUT HIS ACT IN THE NAME OF ALLAH THEN THE GUYS IN THE VIDEO APPEAR TO BE
TWO OF `M ARE BORED SO IT SEEMS OR WAITING IMPATIENCEDLY FOR THE SPEAKER TO END HIS SO CALLED SPEECH. WICH AN IRAQI PROBABLY WOULD DO WITHOUT AN PIECE OF PAPER SINCE HE BELIEVES IN ALLAH AND SO BELIEVES IN HIS ACT AND DOESNT NEED AN PIECE OF PAPER TO READ FROM. I THINK A REAL TERRORRIST WOULD TALK MORE AGGRESSIVE WHEN MAKING A STAMENT.

Posted by: me again at May 15, 2004 11:13 AM

I find it to be just as plausible that Berg's beheading was a CIA psy-op as it was a terrorist act of vengence. Lets review the facts,:

1. The white chair: While the similarity between the chairs at Abu Ghraib and in the terroirst video-tape certainly raise an eye-brow, the similarity by itself can be easily dismissed. Those chairs are cheap and widespread, so it wouldn't be much of a coincidence for the same kind of chair to be at the prison and in the video.

2. The walls at Abu Ghraib and in the video: Very similiar. But still, by itself, not convincing.

3. The orange prison suit: Another striking similarity between the video and the prison. However, the suit on the video appears to be shinier than the ones at the prison. It very well could be that the alleged-terroritsts were trying to simulate a detainees at abu Ghraib to mock Berg, so they dressed him up like one. It does seem a little out of a fanatical Islamists' operational procedure (as the Danny Perle execution shows), but that is a possiblity. The orange suit as a stand alone piece of evidence isn't convincing.

4. The terrorists appear to be stocky with light-skinned hands: It seems as though most terrorists associated with a Bin Laden outfit would be lean and their skin would be darker. Still, I suppose its entirely possible that the prevailing built in one band of terrorists is stocky and that the complexion of at least 4 out of the 5 terrorists tends to be on the lighter side. Again, by itself, easily dismissable as a coincidence.

5. The body language of the terrorists: The terrorist standing on the far left appears to be standing in a western-style military "parade rest". Do Arabic terrorists do that? And this could just be my own perception, but the way in which all of the alleged-terrorists in the video move and stand appears to be out of sync with the way one brought up in an Arabic culture would carry their self. Nonetheless, my perception could just be wrong. Although, even by itself, it is still a little odd.

6. Berg's calmness and lack of blood: Berg just doesn't seem like someone who thinks he's about to be executed, unlike Perle, who had terror etched across his face. Granted, Berg may simply have had nerves of steel, but I'm sure Perle, who was an intrepid journalist, had similarly sound nerves, but that didn't stop him from being noticably shaken.

I'm not a biologist familiar with anatomy, but it seems as though that decapitating the head of someone would result in a geyser-like spurting of blood, even if the cut is gradual. If it does, then that would suggest Berg was dead prior to his beheading and that the screams attributed to Berg were added in for effect.

Also, the grainy picture in the video and the occasional black-outs would conveniently lend the recorder to sneak in some editing. Even as a stand alone piece of evidence, this is where the video starts to seem just as strange as it is horrific.

7. The speaker: A lady on CNN, an expert on Arabic culture and language (her name escapes me), stated emphatically that the speaker does not have a Jordanian accent, disqualifying him from being the Jordanian born and raised Zarqawi. But the CIA insists it is Zarqawi. There is a discrepencey here, leaving one to wonder who to believe.

And why is Zarqawi so cloaked in cloth? We know what he looks like. Is he suppose to have had plastic surgery or something? Or are the clothes a convenient way to disguise an imposter? We already have experts saying the speaker doesn't have a Jordanian accent, giving credence to the latter possibility. Even by itself, these facts start to make the circumstance surrounding Berg's beheading really fishy.

8. Contradictions about Berg's military detention: The government says they never detained Berg. An e-mail sent to the Berg family from the State Department says they did. The government says the State Department was in error. Something really wreaks about the nature of Berg's alleged detention. How could the State Department have been wrong about Berg being in U.S detention?
----

All of these facts when taken in total, especially 6, 7, and 8, really start to detract from what we are officially being told. Some of these can be dismissed as coincidences, but even the coincidences start to mount.

The motive the governmnet would have in conducting such a psy-op is pretty obvious. Now whenever the prison scandal is brought up, defenders of the administration and the administration itself hide behind the video to "remind" us of how barbic the enemy is, and effectively get our minds off of the prison scandal.

The only thing I don't get about the psy-op scenerio is why the video was aired by an al-Qaeda web-site. How would that square with this being a psy-op?

We must remember that al-Qaeda also has an incentive in committing such an act. They want to polarize both sides, and probably like the U.S being in Iraq, as it has most likely hyper-charged their recruitment. Still, the facts of the matter can't be dismissed.

Posted by: Eric Canam at May 15, 2004 11:19 AM

I am wondering why did Mr. Berg have a beard style worn by the Taliban? I am not suggesting anything. Just wondering.....

Posted by: pjack at May 15, 2004 11:26 AM

"do something good or shut the fuck up"

Skepticism is healthy. Our founding fathers would not agree that we should shut our mouths and get blindly behind our government like sheep. Proof - if they did, there would be no USA. It took a revolution, and revolutions don't start by following the leaders like some braindead lemmings.

It's not our crazy ideas or protests that make our country look stupid and dangerous - it's our ACTIONS. The fact remains that none of this would be happening had our congress not been lied to and misled by the president and his minions. THAT is what makes our country look stupid and dangerous.

We are occupying a country to which we have no right. That is what is causing these problems, and that is what is making us look bad to the rest of the world.

To follow any suggestion that I roll over and refuse to question the motives of our government is to suggest that I dishonor the memory of my friend, who recently died in Baghdad on 4/29/2004.

He died defending my freedom, and that freedom is useless if I am not willing to use it to expose the abuses of our government.

Posted by: Muddro at May 15, 2004 11:34 AM

you raise some important points, good luck getting support, i did so much as mention your website to my mother and got screamed at and had my computer taken away... pride is something americans take very seriously, good luck trying to break through that.

Posted by: Emmalynn at May 15, 2004 11:38 AM

The strange tale of Nicholas Berg is beginning to take on the same resonances as Lee Harvey Oswald. I suspect that like Oswald, there is lot more than meets the eye to this story. Though like Oswald, it seems Berg - whatever the heck he was really up to in Iraq - was the patsy in a much bigger game.

Posted by: mrmob at May 15, 2004 11:42 AM

Just watched the video tonight. Didn't want to after watching the "Unknown Russian Soldier" video, but decided to do so after reading what you have to say on this site. After watching it, I came to the conclusion that the person in the video was not alive at the time of his beheading. No way. I think that people who aren't aware of what a real beheading looks like would be fooled (and most wouldn't even watch), but after seeing the "Unknown Russian Soldier" video and comparing the two, it's pretty clear to me that something isn't right with the Berg video.

By the way, regarding the "US military time" on the video, I live in Japan, and it's standard to use 24 hour time here (my Japanese watch and cell phone use "military time"), so it might be standard elsewhere as well. That might be something to look into.

I'm not a "conspiracy theorist", but I think you've raised a lot of good points that are worth looking into.

Posted by: MadBlue at May 15, 2004 11:49 AM

A correction: you've confused the murdered journalist, Daniel Pearl, w/ Richard Perle, a leader of the "neo-cons."

Posted by: barry at May 15, 2004 12:02 PM

Eric Canam asked:

"The only thing I don't get about the psy-op scenerio is why the video was aired by an al-Qaeda web-site. How would that square with this being a psy-op?"

The website "Muslim Wakeup!" thought that might actually be consistent with the idea of psy-op involvement. In the second of their list of questions, they ask:

2. The official Al Qaeda Website: click to see advertising rates. The video was suddenly discovered on the Ansar al-Islam website, a reportedly Al-Qaeda-connected website that was being hosted by a Malaysian company. Now, after the years of close cooperation between US intelligence and Malaysian authorities in the "War on Terror," how was this website allowed to operate in the first place?

Here is the url to the page:

http://www.muslimwakeup.com/archives/000809.php


Posted by: sophie at May 15, 2004 12:17 PM

This is absolutely scary, and I hope it's not true, but I have a feeling that it might be. Perhaps the ones that murdered Nick Burgen were trying to make American's hate Iraq, which contributes to what they might have wanted while making it: war. It is just sad that this is what they have to come down to; brutally murdering an innocent life. Thanks for bringing this all to attention.

Posted by: Bethany at May 15, 2004 12:25 PM

In response to all of the gold ring comments, look at the picture of Daniel Pearl and his terrorist. If you claim this to be a "real" terrorist the whats that on his hand, a ring thats what. OoOoOoOo

Posted by: Lunchbox at May 15, 2004 12:39 PM

"This is absolutely scary..."

I agree, and as much as I distrust the Bush administration, I hope to God that that Americans were not involved in this atrocity.

But to those of you who would wonder how it could be that Americans could do such things, I would merely ask you to take a look at some of the virulent comments made by some of our patriotic brethren on this site. I would ask you to observe how ideologically driven certain of their remarks appear to be, and how they don't seem to be individuals who could be reached by reason, much less by compassion or empathy. Given this, now imagine these same people stationed somewhere without adequate supervision and under horrible conditions. Surround them with people who they have been told have murdered 3,000 of their countrymen. Lastly, put a gun in their hands. What do you think they would not do?

Posted by: sophie at May 15, 2004 12:43 PM

I downloaded the video and have watched it many times. Until now, each time I watched, something about it bothered me. (I don't mean the gore. I'm an EMT and I'm fairly used to that.) Anybody who has access to this video, watch Nick's head and tell me it's not photoshopped onto his body. Isn't it odd that he's always looking forward into the camera? Even when his head is being cut off, he's looking forward into the camera. Also, watch how unnatural his head movements are. It only moves up, down, or to the side. It never tilts. There seems to be some unnatural lag between when the body moves and when the head moves, as if the two are disconnected or are connect by something other than a neck. Also, watch how little his face moves. This guy doesn't twitch? He doesn't frown? Don't tell me his bottom lip wouldn't start to stick out just a little as his "captors" inform him of his fate. What little movements there are in his face are unnatural, as well. I noticed his mouth shift its position once or twice but never really change shape. One more thing, do any of the "terrorists" ever look at him during the speech? It seems odd to me that five people whose thoughts are focused entirely on the great evil this man represents never bother to glance downward a couple of feet to look at him.

Okay, so here's my theory. Nick Berg was killed by people in Iraq not working for the United States. As reported, his body was found headless. Just like in Fallujah, an American was butchered by people in the region. But the thing about Fallujah was, it didn't get nearly the amount of press that the Iraqi prisoner abuse story got. So here's the US government, thinking to itself, "our men are being butchered and burned here in Iraq but, still, we're seen as the bad guys because we stacked naked men into a pyramid. We could tell everyone that an American citizen was decapitated by these people, but nobody would care." Then along comes someone who says, "what if we could make people see the horror of this act? What if we were to use his body to act out the execution and leak it to the world?" That's what they did.

I don't buy the whole it's-the-US-government-and-they-woudln't-be-this-amateurish-if-they-made-the-tape idea, either. If the US government works like other large organizations, the way things like this happen is somebody says, "hey, I could use Nick's body to rally support for our cause" and the message gets to higher ups who say, "that sounds like a good idea. Do your thing." They don't send in their secret CIA movie-faking team. Bush and his cronies can micro-manage everything that occurs in this country.

Posted by: Phil at May 15, 2004 12:44 PM

IT LOOK TO ME LIKE THE PRINTS OF THE KKK. I AM A BRED AMERICAN, AND I KNOW AMERICANS WHEN I SEE ONE, UNDER THE SHEET, AND OUT OF THE SHEET. IT LOOKS LIKE THE CIA LEFT THERE DIRTY WORK TO THE MP COMPANY, UNPROFESSIONALS, THAT ONCE MORE SCREWED UP IN THERE VIDEO MAKING. I THINK THESE GOOD OLE BOYS NEED TO BE SENT BACK TO THE AUDIO VIDEO ACADEMY, BACK DOWN YONDER TO FORT BENNINGS.

Posted by: Johnny Bojingle at May 15, 2004 12:45 PM

The truth is out there. I believe

Posted by: kashoggi at May 15, 2004 12:52 PM

The chairs are absolutely not the same. If you look at the arms on the chair Nick is sitting in you will note they veer out slightly where as in the picture of the chair with England and Graner the arms are completely vertical. Look for yourself!!!

Posted by: honestly at May 15, 2004 12:53 PM

when the guard holds up the head for the camera, the shadow is perfect on the back wall.

Posted by: Mitch at May 15, 2004 12:58 PM

I found a site yesterday that referred to the last few seconds of the audio where a Western sounding voice can be heard saying what sounds like, "thy will be done!"

This is said twice.

Posted by: Alxandro at May 15, 2004 01:03 PM

Emmalynn writes: "...it seems Berg - whatever the heck he was really up to in Iraq - was the patsy in a much bigger game."

Damn right -- what's the life of one little American in these globalists’ scheme? Like Rumsfeld said, we and our kids are “fungible.”

Posted by: sophie at May 15, 2004 01:04 PM

Marc,

This was a very interestign set of observations. I don't buy all of what you are saying, but some of it is certainly very astute.

Let me ask you a question. How good is your Arabic? How qualified do you judge yourself to be to assess the quality of Arabic spoken in the Nick Berg execution video?

Thanks.

Boris.

Posted by: Boris Epstein at May 15, 2004 01:09 PM

>>Do you realized that our government has dropped the equivalent of the radiation of 250,000 Nagasaki bombs on Iraq?

inanity.

Posted by: DUB at May 15, 2004 01:24 PM

I have read alot of the posts and alot of us are missing the point. The chair, the jumpsuit, the pasty white hands, the fat guys...is all designed to have us not look at the more serious side of this case.

From what i have seen, no one can believe this beheading took place on the video. Lack of blood is enough to convince me. That being said, why stage it? Who stood to gain? The answer is simple, the Bush Administration. Takes the heat off them, gives the neocons more justification for the Abu Ghraib mess. Don't forget, that the administration has already been caught lying over this situation, trying to say that Berg wasn't in their custody prior to his death, that is until an email proved them to be lying. So, a man in custody for 13 days (and we still have not said why he was ever in custody), is suddenly miraculously set free, only to fall into the hands of Al Qaeda the next day and beheaded. Where is the Al Qaeda building, next to the prison? Cmon, i understand the need for the right to defend this President, but this is a horrible job. The timing alone spells the truth. It is amazing how politically expedient Al Qaeda is for this administration. Whenever the poll numbers are low, a new video is released.

The tape is fake, everyone who is not lying knows that. As for some of the "love your country or shut up nonsense", it is imperative upon us as citizens to question our leaders. That does not make me less patriotic, it makes me more patriotic. Blind loyalty is a dangerous concept.

Lastly, Bush was not elected, he was appointed, by his own party, through the Supreme Court.

I do not own a white lawn chair.

Posted by: The Truth at May 15, 2004 01:26 PM

Again, how can Bush be the least competent person on the planet and be so skillful at implementing his conspiracies?

Stop hating and start thinking

Posted by: DUB at May 15, 2004 01:29 PM

Bush doesn't implement anything.
Karl Rove does!

Hating AND thinking!

Posted by: John Smith at May 15, 2004 01:34 PM

Here's my one question. If it's propaganda, it's bad propaganda, because it's just as effective at convincing people for the war as convincing people against it. I dunno, it's a big political gamble.

Still, some of the evidence is pretty convincing. Yes, the chair is pretty flimsy evidence, but there was a lot more. So people should definately take that into account.

Posted by: Jack at May 15, 2004 01:39 PM

I forgot something people. My wife and I were discussing the possibility that Berg might have witnessed the terrible treatment of Iraqi prisoners during his 13 days of imprisonment. Wouldn't it be a blow to America if an American Jew was the witness to such attrocities? Just a thought, not a fact, just something to think about, even for Republicans.

Posted by: Vinnie at May 15, 2004 01:41 PM

Sorry honesty, I disagree.
In the picture with the two US soldiers, the arms are not 100% vertical. In fact, on the right side of the pic the arm may appear to be vertical because it's directly in front of the camera angle but on the left side of the pic the arm appears to veer out.
Also, take a look side view of the chair where you see the 7 numbered guards. The arms are also not vertical from this side angle view. There is a subtle out bound curvature starting from the arm down to the seat, then it starts curving back in from the seat area to the base.
What is more intersting is the similarities of arm rests, they both appear to have the same smooth tapered and rounded edges. Both pics show the top of the arm rests "veering out" in V-shaped fashion. The front surface of the guard's chair appears to have a slight pattern to it, almost a protrusion (notice the rounded shadow), thinner at the bottom, arching out and widening at the arm rest.
You can almost see the same pattern in Berg's chair if you look at the shadows and hight lights.

I'm just being objective here, but since we don't have a shot of the the back of the chair, it would say the evidence is at this point, inconclusive.

Posted by: Alxandro at May 15, 2004 01:47 PM

i personally would never buy a plastic chair anyway. figures that is what the military is buying... cheap ass chairs.

the beheading is real. there is no lack of blood. period. i believe there's something fishy, something wrong with the STORY behind the beheading. but the beheading was very real.

if you all expect blood to gush to the ceiling, you've watched too many horror movies. this isn't a special effect. it was real. i've seen too many trauma situations and too many surgeries to not know that SOMEBODY beheaded SOMEBODY on that video.

there was clearly a large pool of blood underneath his neck.

it took a while for the head to get completely removed, by then the blood had drained from the head- before he raised it. there's not alot of blood in your head. if you don't believe that, let someone pressure your carotids until you pass out- WONT TAKE LONG!!!!

the horrible thing about this video is that it is really a man being beheaded (probably drugged beforehand)-

the question that is most horrifying is this: WHO DID IT? because the people are obviously NOT who they claim to be.

i wish to god i had not watched that video. i suppose all of the talk on here about it being a fake beheading LURED me into believing that it would be reassuringly fake. there can be no doubt. that was real, and i will not sleep for a year.

take my word for it, folks- don't watch the video- THE MAN WAS BEHEADED.

-t-

Posted by: tam at May 15, 2004 01:49 PM

Yes! You are right on all counts. Blind patriotism is not patriotic. It is the easy way out. To argue for the truth is patriotic.
George Bush is my employee and he had better do his job or he is fired. He is not working for the good of the nation but, is working for the good of Bush and co. What is it that makes his supporters so blind? What is the pay off?

Posted by: for The Truth at May 15, 2004 01:54 PM

you are all very sick, you should have more respect for your country and military and less sympathy for terrosits and the sick people who hate america

Posted by: cuteness at May 15, 2004 01:59 PM

I've got to look at both sides of the coin.But the fact that the vests are on doesnt mean anything.I am a Marine and they do look like LBV's(load bearing vests).Bullet proof vest's are not puncture proof.That has been a concern of vest makers for years and years.As for the white sneakers,well that doesnt mean anything.He could of just got them and Iraq isnt full of sand.How about thinking urban warfare.That's city fighting for all of you who don't know.If all of this is a ploy by the CIA then that doents say much for America because if we have to goto extremes like these to get the American public to realize that we have to fight these wacko on there on terms and Liberal Shit heads should stay out of this one.I mean get a grip people they hate us because of our freedom and way of thinking.Do you really think that we can just sign a peace treaty with these clowns and everything will be fine.War and Terror is there way of life.We should be more concerned about how a camera got into the Prison than why we are fuckin with these terrorists.Get Real People.

Posted by: Semper Fi at May 15, 2004 02:08 PM

They don't view themselves as blind. To consider the truth leaves them quite short on explanations in their lives. If the government, they trust, is capable of the berg fiasco, why, what else must they question? WMD? 9-11? It is all quite unsettling to build up your illusions only to have someone come along and rip them down.

Here is something to ponder. The last time we really heard from Osama Bin Laden was right after 9-11. Anyone remember what he said? He said that while he was not saddened by the event, he had nothing to do with it. After that we have Bush pushing for a war in Afganstan, even though none of the Taliban were on those flights. Then we now know that he forced his people to come up with a Bin-Laden-Hussein conncection, so we could go into Iraq. No Iraquis were on those flights either.

But Bin-Laden the Boogeyman has been created. Everytime attention is drawn to Bush's failed economic plan, his pillaging of the environment, or his wrecking of the constitution, he pulls out the boogeyman and makes us all look at that, fear that... instead of focusing on what he has done to this country.

May God Help Us.

Posted by: The Truth at May 15, 2004 02:10 PM

I found that same site that plays the "Thy will be done" audio clip. What is funny is if you listen to it when they play the whole last part you hear a distinct pop sound. Almost as if it was added to the end by an outside means. I saw the video and oddly enough the version I had locked up my Media Player with some 15 seconds or so to go. Not sure why it did but hey I never send those error reports out to Microsoft (Don't trust them I guess.. they could be linked to GW somehow). Anyway the clip seems to clear on the first play but when they slow it down it seems to become somewhat garggled. Somewhat suspicious to me. That web site also spouts on about the difference between some chairs found in a Baghdad cafe and the one in Abu Ghraib (I thought us American were the only ones in Iraq with any type of white plastic chair). These sites are funny. I'm surprised that most of you guys who buy this crap didn't already try to leave with the Heaven's Gate group when Hale-Bopp went by last decade. Then again maybe you escaped from the Branch Dividian before ol' President Clinton got a hold of it. Oooor did the aliens just recently drop you back off after their annual probing session. Note to self don't look now but "Big Brother is watching". Oops I meant Imperialistic War-mongering GW is watching. Guys get a clue, if your in the states John Kerry was going on about finding the proper way to take care of POW's. He seems to be the least likely of all people to do this, since he, himself admitted to doing horrific autrocities in Vietnam. I just hope you guys wake up. I understand those that aren't in the States (especially the French, Germans, and Russians), they are sick of playing second or third fiddle to us. It's not our fault, The United States represents the hope of all of the worlds people come to fruition. This country was founded on this principle.

Oh yeah, here's the link for that site with the "Thy will be done" crap. When you get done listening to it and convincing yourself that it's what he's saying, maybe you can listen to some Judas Priest or Ozzy. I hear they tell you to put a shotgun to your head and pull the trigger. Unfortunately the only ones that really know what it said aren't with us any longer (this is not to make light of what happened in any of the above tragic incidentsm or an endorsement to kill ones self, it's to highlight peoples ability to easily accept oddities without rationally thinking thing through)

http://www.breakfornews.com/NickBergEnemiesList.htm

Oh and I saw some blood on the floor when they first cut him. Maybe due to web space they were forced to edit the original. So they used an average and ordinary editing program to splice the video (since it looks to me as if they had trouble getting the head off) and then took the audio and placed it where they wanted it to be. Not that difficult to understand, I hope. Of couse depending on how good Mr. Berg's computer was he could very well had unwillingly supplied the equipment used in his own unfortunate death.

Posted by: Rob M. at May 15, 2004 02:11 PM

Well I have read your site and most of the comments here it does leave me with questions? I did notice berg was calm for being in there hands. But you could say he know what was going to happen and came to peace with it. Well if we get to see Mr Moore’s Documentary about 9/11 maybe that would shed some light on it. Think about this my question is if you upload to a website it logs ip's and you can be traced with that. CIA could find them then well>>>why didn’t they.....WHERE IS BIN LIDAN he has been put on the back burner in all this....

Posted by: Punisher at May 15, 2004 02:12 PM

DUB - "how can Bush be the least competent person on the planet and be so skillful at implementing his conspiracies?
"
It's because he is not the one running the show.

I would not be the least bit surprised if Bush does not get re-elected.
If he loses it will be because his people are doing a sloppy job of covering up the Illuminati agenda.
Remember the State of the Union speech when Bush started one of his responses with "I wish you would've asked me this question ahead of time..."

This Berg issue is just another example and more and more people are opening their eyes.

It's all staged, people!
The puppet masters of the media, the military, of big business, Shadow Government, are all in it and pulling the strings here, we are just freekin' shee-ple.

As we all know, both Kerry and Bush are members of "Skull and Bones" and I really hope someone brings up a S&B question during the debate.

Does anyone know where Berg's head is now?

It'll probably end up at Yale at some point.

-"Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy." ~ Henry Kissinger -

Posted by: Alxandro at May 15, 2004 02:13 PM

Someone said maybe Nick Berg witnessed the prisoner abuse when he was in detention. But that's impossible he was taken into custody in Mosul not Baghdad. MOSUL NOT BAGHDAD. The same Mosul that is some 200 miles away from Bagdad.

By the way someone earlier quote Martin Luther King Jr. and his famous I have a dream speech. He was a minister. You notice that he says white man and black man, jews and gentiles. He was looking forward to the day that Christ sets his Kingdom up. Sure it helps highlight that those believer will come from many different peoples and helps with the segregation issue. But he's looking for them to be united in Christ.

Posted by: Rob M. at May 15, 2004 02:26 PM

sophie,

Are you saying that although Grant was a drunk, he was still quite effective?

Posted by: Alxandro at May 15, 2004 02:27 PM

What I don't understand is why a Jewish person was released in the middle of Iraq?

Was he a Sephardim or Ashkenazi jew?

What was he doing there anyway?

He was not military, yet his body arrived in Dover?

Posted by: Alxandro at May 15, 2004 02:45 PM

How can you tell they are white? Their heads are covered and you never really get a chance to see there hands very well. I've been to the middle east, there are plenty of arabs just as large as the men in the video.

Posted by: qt at May 15, 2004 02:49 PM

1). Berg was visited by the FBI 3 times, but now the government claims that he was never under US custody.

2). Berg's father is antiwar, and his name is on an enemy list

3). Berg's dead sister was married to an Iraqi

4). The translation of the tape never mention Al Qaeda, and it left out the phrase that Berg's death was a revenge for prison abuse.

5). Berg was wearing an orange suit, something you don't see in other tapes involving abducted foreigners.

6). Two of the masked men were tall.

7). Masked men wore tennis shoes.

8). Masked men had military at ease stance.

9). Masked men's speech was suspicious, someone mentioned Russian was spokened.

10). Someone mentioned Berg worked a night shift in Abu Ghraib (i would like a source please)

11). US citizen not affiliated with the coalition like Berg are prevented from travel to Iraq, how did he get there?

12). Al-Zarqawi being one-legged or dead in previous news reports.

13). The video was uploaded to the web, yet the NSA and FBI can't track the upload point to the terrorists. Remember, they got the hacker who wrote the Sasser worm within days, and he was way more tech-savvy than Al-Zarqawi. The Web is watched.

14). The white standard issued chair

15). The yellow wall

16). Rug on the floor, so real floor color is not visible

17). U.S. officials say the FBI questioned Berg in 2002 after a computer password Berg used in college turned up in the possession of Zaccarias Moussaoui, the al Qaeda operative arrested shortly before 9/11 for his suspicious activity at a flight school in Minnesota.


18). If the body was found on Monday (May 10th), or previously "over the weekend" (prior), how could the execution and video be taped on May 11th, as is reported?

19). 11 hours time span for the video

20). People had been questioning on the perfect timing for this video. For counter point, wasn't he murdered before the prison pics got out? On the other hand, prison pics were known for a long time before the media got to them.

Posted by: scrut at May 15, 2004 02:53 PM

I don't understand why people that are willing to do DIE for their cause, go ballistic when they are accomodated and killed by others.

I'm not defending Zarqawi by any means, not at all, but if he is indeed the one in the video, why would a person that is already very well recognizable, go to the trouble of covering up his face?

Besides, I thought he was already blown to smithereens weeks ago.

Posted by: Alxandro at May 15, 2004 02:58 PM

I hope the American government wasnt stupid enough to do that, but my head is telling me they are.

On a side note: has anyone else noticed the terrorist on the far left starts scratching his ass during the video??

Posted by: Jim at May 15, 2004 03:07 PM

I too was very confused by Berg's extreme state of calmness and placidity in this tape. Everything you've pointed out has made a creepy amount of sense. I do argue that the plastic chair in both the prison abuse pictures and the chair in the Berg video could very well be different chairs; plastic lawn chairs are not difficult to come across, BUT, that is probably my only rebuttal. I will definetely pass this page along, as it does make me question a lot of things.

Posted by: Rebecca at May 15, 2004 03:10 PM

Bad Taste Award: On the Day of Nicky Berg's Memorial Service, Ashcroft "Clears Him of Any Ties to Terrorists." This is One Bizarre Murder and the Bush Cartel Sure Has Got a Foul Stench. 5/16
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/15/politics/15ashcroft.html?pagewanted=print&position

Posted by: Her at May 15, 2004 03:18 PM

To my "Semper Fi" buddy. Why don't you ask SGT. Lopez, ex marine hostage of Iran what he thinks about your Marine brain washing tacktics. Marines are the biggest courageous people we have in the military but, brain washed to the max. I've seen first hand what the Marine Corps has done to many friends and colleagues. I respect your courage but do not respect what the government has done to your creative thinking. I sympathize with your tenacity to honor but do not believe you are GIVEN the ability to see the other side of the coin. Marines scare me and should but, again you are way too gun ho! You guys snap too easily and are very unstable human beings. You are trained to be great killers and not to question your government. That is your duty and commitment. But, killing isn't the most honarable occupation on the planet! Yes, you will probably answer someone needs to do it. I would agree if you guys were not used as pawns so too often. I spent many nights drinking with Marines and so too often I heard "the marines really fucked up my mind." I spent numerous days with the most commited of Marines that admited to being used by the government they served honorably. Everyone, even Marines fall prey of the government's illusionary tactics to gain more power and money. Do you remember Oliver North that honorably took the blame for the entire country's wrong doing? What a gem of a story that was. Reagan walks into government saying he would NEVER deal with terrorist and then behind our backs strikes and arms deal with Iran in order to free our hostages in Iran (whom by the way were given fair warning WAY IN ADVANCE of their abduction and the government just let it happen. I was in Wiesbaden when the hostages wer freed and talked/interviewed many. Most of them believe in the Semper Fi to each other but no longer to their government. Man, don't fall prey to their bullshit. It will either get you killed for no reason or drive you insane. Always loyal to your family and friends. the government is not your friend neither your family. Be carefull and stay safe. As far as prisons in Iraq are concerned, it is not only the prisons in Baghdad that these tortures have occured. Just wait, the mainstream media run by nuclear power industies will eventually be forced to leak out that info also. Does anyone have any idea who owns NBC, CNN, FOX, CBS and where their true interests "lie." Just snoop around and you will see that your freedom you are fighting for and freedom of press is all controlled by big businesses that produce war materials of all sorts and of course are directly related to oil interests groups. SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME YOU READ "THE SEVEN SISTERS" BY ANTHONY SIMPSON. IF NOT, TRY IF YOU CAN TO FIND A COPY. THIS IS A WELL WRITTEN BOOK AND EXTREMELY DOCUMENTED. NOT A BULLSHIT PROPOGANDA BOOK. YOU WILL DISCOVER HOW ALL THIS STARTED WAY BACK IN THE 19TH CENTURY WITH IRAQ, IRAN, LEBANON, LYBIA, SYRIA, SAUDI ARABIA, ISRAEL AND THE REST OF THE MIDDLE EAST. I HATE DISCOVERING THESE REALITIES ABOUT MY COUNTRY BUT, UNTIL WE DISCOVER THE TRUTH BEHIND AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY WE ALL WILL BE BEING THE PRICE OF NICHOLAS BERG IN SOME FORM OR ANOTHER. SEMPER FI TO MY PEOPLE BUT NOT THE CURRENT WAYS OUR GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN USING ALL OF US, BLACK OR WHITE, INDIAN OR COWBOY, REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT, MARINE OR CIVILIAN. GOD BLESS AMERICANS BECAUSE WE SURELY NEED IT. LOVE TO ALL

Posted by: Vinnie at May 15, 2004 03:19 PM

first, its true not only the americans have plastic chairs...but anybody saw one in any video of the kidnapings?.

Second what is the ET orange suit??? perhaps not a prison suit....but the condemned to death dont use something orange ?

third the poor Berg , has no fear in his face.

fourth anybody kill a pig? ...its impossible that ausense of blood

Fifth starting from the ausense of the alleged "MASS DESTRUCTION WEAPONS" i do not believe in anything

R I P

Posted by: curundir at May 15, 2004 03:21 PM

Alxandro -- this is and is not off the subject:

To win the Civil War, Lincoln had to make the draconian choice between doing business with northern industrialists who were engaging in blatant war profiteering, or loosing the war. He reasoned that he would focus on winning the war and then after it was over, would go back and crack down on the shysters and force reform. As we know, this was not to be. When Grant took office, he inherited the war's unfinished business -- reconstruction in many ways was a war fought more bitterly than the actually military conflict (in a way that is similar to the official military period of the war in Iraq as opposed to the insurgency period that followed its declared end). And Grant had to face the danger the powerful industry owners posed to the politically fragile country.

While he had been an effective military officer, Grant was simply not up to the task of taking on the war’s chaotic aftermath. He was not enough of a politician to continue to wage the Civil War again with members of the House and Senate, or US citizens. And in what I have always thought was something of despair, he chose to just escape from his burdens in the fog of a drunken stupor. (I don't know that I wouldn't have done the same given what he faced.) Grant did little to nothing to address the very real problem of what was by then, entrenched corporate corruption (remember the Gilded Age?). And indeed, he was eventually somewhat complicit in its perpetuation.

While the parallel between Grant and Bush in many ways is a poor one, in other ways it is uncannily good. I’ll let you pick which ones are which.

Posted by: sophie at May 15, 2004 03:32 PM

very very interesting........

Posted by: MIke at May 15, 2004 03:38 PM

I'm not sure that islamic terrorists from an arabic state would dress a hostage in an american jumpsuit(Unless it was recovered from american sources and used as an ironic gesture).

The other thing that struck me was that the terrorists were fidgeting in the background, where as usually they are very self-disciplined, with intensive training...
Any comments to that?

Posted by: ls at May 15, 2004 03:40 PM

I'm not sure that islamic terrorists from an arabic state would dress a hostage in an american jumpsuit(Unless it was recovered from american sources and used as an ironic gesture).

The other thing that struck me was that the terrorists were fidgeting in the background, where as usually they are very self-disciplined, with intensive training...
Any comments to that?

Posted by: ls at May 15, 2004 03:40 PM

all u ppl condeming this post here, should read it more completely... its a hypothisis, and basically it has brought up many well thought out questions that should be answered....

Posted by: jayman at May 15, 2004 03:44 PM

scrut,

They caught the guy who wrote the Sasser worm after a tip-off from some guys who know him. It had nothing to do with any clever monitoring of the Internet.

Posted by: steve at May 15, 2004 03:51 PM

Do I think that it is possible for our Gov. to have made this tape yes. Do I think they did? I don't know and if they did. Things run deeper then we will ever know. What I do know is that 9/11 did happen and the world will never be the same.

Posted by: jim at May 15, 2004 04:14 PM

All those details about the Nick Berg's clothes and the chairs and the use of gold rings are not fully convincing. I got 4 questions to all of you who believe in conspiracy theories:

Fisrt. Why Nick Berg disappeared on April 10, when the Abu Ghraib scandal hasn't yet been released?

Second. If the it was the Americans who captured him on April 10, then what's the reason for his second arrest?

Third. Under the same hypothesis, why didn't Nick Berg tell his family and friends that he was being held by US forces in Bagdad?

Fourth. Why the execution video appeared on an islamic al Qaeda website?

Anyone who believes in conspiracy theories must be able to explain all these strange facts convincingly.

Posted by: Marcus at May 15, 2004 04:14 PM

Marc, I have 4 white chairs identical to those. Perhaps I'm a conspirator as well?

These "theories" do not suit you Mark. I thought you were smarter than that...

Posted by: Infidel at May 15, 2004 04:37 PM

You people have got to be the most fucked up deoms around. This site is just as bad a DU. Do the world a fav and all of you make it a mass suicide. God you people suck. What a joke.

Posted by: rick at May 15, 2004 04:42 PM

First off, for people who think are government would never do anything like this, don't be so naive.

When I first watched the video, my first reaction was anger. It took me about 5 minutes to calm down. Subconsciously though something didnt seem right. So I made myself watch it again.

I noticed a lack of blood, especially on the hand of the guy holding the knife. Now, go back to that guy with the black face covering. He is the one who starts cutting, but at the end of the video the guy with the white face covering is shown cutting and then holding the head. Does that make sense...Go look for yourself.

The timing of this really stinks. Anyone who truly thinks of who gains from this video would realize this. Now the abuse photos will probably never see the light.

People will say that our government could have made a far better video if it was them. I say not if they wanted you to believe it was who they are saying it was.

Posted by: eric at May 15, 2004 04:45 PM

Given the 'clues' raised and theory presented here...i do find most if not all of them odd. And i have seen the video a few times and all of these question popped into my head as well, the blood, the too calm attitued, the failure on his part to even try to resist or escape, the surroundings. I'm wondering, what is it the US soldiers are doing or EVEN looking at in the top picture? It appears to my eyes, to be a rolled up 'carpet' or perhaps tarp, brown or black in color. Whatever it is, they seem VERY interested in it and i find it very interesting as well for this reason; assuming that the other enviromental clues are weak, i did notice Berg being thrown down onto what seemed to be a brown carpeted floor. Notice what these 'terroists' are standing on in the picture below? Is that mysterious object these troops are looking at the rolled up carpet used to disquies the floor of the prison?

As for the clothing. Did not American troops strip Iraq prisioners ? there are many picture i have seen, where there are piles of clothes (including white shoes, and head towels) lying around the floor of the prision. Is is not plausable they have manufactured 'terrorists' using this garb?

As for the chair. If it can be found anywhere the world over, then it's the perfect chair to use isnt it? generic and traceable to anywhere.

OR perhaps, it is all real and a wondefully planned and orcastrated peice of filming, that instills doubt and discussion is playing into the hands of Berg's killers....thereby progressing their objectives.

Posted by: reupertG at May 15, 2004 04:50 PM

Just maybe it was stunt to remove attention from George Bush's troubles with the Iraqi Prisoners' treatment?

The alleged Berg execution is a hoax. To explain this stance we take a closer look at the events happened around that time.

The U.S. like always needs to divert attentions when they get negative attention, during Monica Lewinski scandal the U.S. decided to bomb a Afghanistan and Sudan for no reason and without any prove that they where behind any anti-U.S attacks. When the U.S. stocks dropped the U.S. went to war with Iraq and in the past there are numerous examples of same thing happening over and over again.

This time with the rape and abuse pictures and video's from Iraqi prisons and streets the criminals in the Whitehouse again needed to divert the negative attention they where receiving from around the world.

We will put some strange things down to support the stance regarding authenticity of the video.

- Nick Berg was wearing an orange jumpsuit – just like US prisoners wear.

- Berg was last seen alive on 10 April, when his father Michael Berg believes he was killed - two weeks before the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal broke in the world's media. (Tape claimed the execution was retaliation for Iraqi prisoner abuse).

- The body is completely motionless even as the knife is brought to bear – not so much as an instinctive wriggle. He was probably already dead or sedated

- It is natural that when the throat artery is cut, it would cause a significant amount of blood. But little emerges and when the head was raised – not a drop of blood is seen to fall. If he had been dead prior to the decapitation he wouldn't have spewed blood.

- Additionally, some have pointed out that his last email on 6 April to his family stated he wished to return home as soon as possible – yet the FBI claim he refused an offer of help to get home. (In the wider press, FBI involvement has also generated much discussion as to why Berg was really arrested and detained for two weeks in Mosul.)

- A US newspaper claims an official familiar with the case knew that FBI agents had interrogated Berg, but had left him for two weeks because he was in Iraqi - not American - custody.

- The Jordanian accused of the beheading Berg is himself believed to have been killed in March, according to two Islamic groups.

An eight-page leaflet circulated this week in Falluja, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was killed in the Sulaimaniya Mountains of northern Iraq during a US bombing.

But even if it was the Jordanian, his face is so well-known that "why would he bother to cover it?"

Now you perhaps still think that the U.S. would never execute one of its own. Then you should ask yourself the question why the U.S. invaded Iraq knowing it had no WMD like it is proven now to the whole world. This led to the death of more then 700 invaders of U.S. nationality alone.

The U.S. needed to boost its support to continue this unjust war for its evil agenda. It should be no surprise if later in the future when these Zionist controlled regimes (republicans and democrats) of the U.S. have fallen and are replaced with independent and free government it comes to light that the Pentagon has secretly awarded Nick Berg a medal for "his" sacrifice for the sake of the evil agenda of the current U.S. regimes.

If you want to know where the killers are, then you dont have to look further then Washington DC, U.S.
The Americans have brought such cruel sadistic regime down on them selves. How many lies should a government tell before the Americans even TRY to open their eyes.

Posted by: CyanideChrist at May 15, 2004 04:55 PM

After watching the video repeatedly it seems obvious to me that it is faked. His head looks superimposed on the body (perhaps the picture comes from the first part in the chair when he was still alive.) The head never moves even slightly- left or right, up or down. Also, the legs and feet never wobble or move even when the toso is seen to jerk spasmodically. The screams start with no one moving or reacting- not even Burg who I assume is supposed to be the screamer. The person weilding the knife and head changes, there is little blood- none drips from the "freshly" severed head or spurts onto the killers. At the end the head is shown on the pristine orange suit with the clean neck. I think he was murdered somewhere and the Americans got the "brilliant" idea to make his death serve the purpose of drawing attention away from prison torture back to hating inhuman Arabs! This video is'nt being shown in America, not because it is so horrible but because it is so horribly done it would soon be revealed as a fake...

Posted by: cknope at May 15, 2004 05:05 PM

Hey guys just heard on FOX News that there are two comets coming close sometime soon. Neat Comet and Linear Comet are on there way. So you can try to catch up with your buddies who left on Hale-Bopp.

Seriously just because someone scratches their butt or what not doesn't make them American. I saw a documentary on MTV (not saying that they are a legit news group) and they spoke to some young Iraqi's and guess what they were influenced by American pop culture. One boy even like the Back Street Boys, that tells you how bad it is. Guess what I'm American and I'm not fat or 6'-5".

Then again I might be brainwashed and have a unrealistic self image and I really am fat and 6'-5". Thanks for your help you saved me loads of money and therapy time. I can cancel my appointment with Dr. Phil.

I'm not a medical person but I used to own a Stretch Armstrong doll and when I severed it's head their wasn't any blood either. Coincident I think not.

Posted by: Rob M. at May 15, 2004 05:05 PM

All those conspiracy theories fail to convince me because they don't make much senses. Why a man like Nick Berg disappeared on April 10, weeks before the Abbu Ghraib scandal? Berg lost contact with his family when he was on his way back to US soil. Someone got in the way and kidnapped him. The Americans wanted him out o Iraq and had offered him a safe return. So it makes no sense that they suddenly changed their minds and decided to capture him, for what reason?

If the conspiracy theory is true then all the time Nick Berg was missing (from April 10 to May 11) he was under US custody. But he never told his family about it. The fisrt time he was in jail (in Mosul), he was allowed to talk to his family, then why not this time?

The fact that the video was edited doesn't necessary mean the Americans did it. Why not think it was a radical islamic group who kidnapped him, tortured him, and killed him. Afterwards they decided to fake an execution video just to shock the West and give us a lesson as they always do.

All those pretty theories will soon be forgotten cause they don't make sense. There were conspiracy theories related to 9-11 but nobody takes them seriously.

Posted by: Marcus at May 15, 2004 05:20 PM

cyanide christ wrote "The U.S. needed to boost its support to continue this unjust war for its evil agenda. It should be no surprise if later in the future when these Zionist controlled regimes (republicans and democrats) of the U.S. have fallen and are replaced with independent and free government it comes to light that the Pentagon has secretly awarded Nick Berg a medal for "his" sacrifice for the sake of the evil agenda of the current U.S. regimes." Why don't you move to Iraq.

Posted by: jim at May 15, 2004 05:22 PM

1) Fat, white fidgety terra'ists wearing tennis shoes, the leader of which:

a) is wearing the sort of large gold ring that is expressly forbidden in fundy Islamic communities, and

b) starts cutting the head, but is replaced (as the camera time signatures change) by someone wearing a white head covering when it's time to show off the head.

2) Out of synch soundtrack and jumping time signatures on the video production.

3) A supposedly live beheading without any visibly spurting blood -- beheaded by supposed Arab terra'ists who obviously have no clue how to efficiently decapitate a living mammal.

4) For the first time in recorded history, Arab terra'ists post a video of an atrocious murder on a website -- right in the middle of Bush Admin's most damaging national scandal -- a scandal driven completely by its own disgusting pictoral and video imagery. And this amateur video somehow immediately becomes huge BREAKING NEWS across all corporate media outlets -- giving any putative terra'ists a boatload of free publicity before anyone has a chance to even analyze the video's authenticity.

5) Berg had been held in US custody (in the Abu Ghraib prison?) for two weeks without charge or access to phones or legal help just days before he was last heard from. And the US now denies this, despite the family's insistence and overwhelming evidence that he was in fact held in US custody.

6) Berg just happened to have an FBI file because he somehow gave his email address to the guy the US government calls 9/11's 20th hijacker.

7) Berg was an American Jew traveling alone in Iraq without a job. He reported that he was climbing radio towers and taking lots of photos around the suburb of Abu Ghraib.

8) Ugly yellow paint, orange jumpsuits and, yes, white plastic Walmart chairs -- all of which appear in both the Berg video and the Abu Ghraib prison videos.

9) Zarqawi rises from the dead, has a letter fall into coalition hands that just happens to confirm everything BushCo is dreaming about the Iraqi situation, grows another leg, loses his Jordanian accent, puts on a forbidden gold ring, reads from a long speech that he's written in a mysterious mobius fashion across both sides of a single sheet of paper, decides to give up his hobby as a poison expert to get down and dirty with a dull knife, and carefully hides his face while screaming, "Yoo hoo - Zarqawi here!"

Posted by: stickdog at May 15, 2004 05:26 PM

This site is Blowing my mind.

Posted by: Poo Bradley at May 15, 2004 05:32 PM

Why did you remove my post

Posted by: jim at May 15, 2004 05:33 PM

Just to explain, the Stretch Armstrong comment was made to point out all of the people who keep going on about the lack of blood. I myself and I would hope the rest of you would be in this category have never slit another persons throat. It is only speculation as to how a person would react and how much blood would flow. It's been stated that he didn't move and you would expect that his lip would atleast flitch when told that he was going to die. It's been reported that he spoke only limited Arabic. Do you think the first words you would learn in Arabic would be about how someone would say they are going to kill you? That's ignorant, He probably had no idea that they planned on killing him. Remember the Haliburton (spelling?) guy would had just recently escape from some wannabe terrorists. I to thought that he had not fought enough but upon seeing it I noticed that his hand and his feet were bound quite well. I addressed the audio discrepencies earlier. It wouldn't be hard to edit this thing. It was pointed out on another site that the guy who started to cut his throat handed it off to another of his cohorts. I don't recall that in great detail and don't plan on ever seeing this video ever again. It was a brutal killing and people should stop using to promote their "conspiracy theories". I hope those that stumble on this site take the time to look at the fact. Bush doesn't benefit from it because the mainstream press has already moved back to the Abu Ghraib prison stuff. Don't over look the source. This Marc Perkel guy has a post on his site where he claims that Saddam Hussien would be reinstated by the U.S. government as the dictator of Iraq during the time we rebulid Iraq. This guy is full of crap. He obviously graduated from the same school as the former Iraqi Information Minister Baghdad Bob.

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/

Posted by: Rob M. at May 15, 2004 05:35 PM

Someone needs to police the world. so we can have freedom to post our views on sites like this one. And be free of terroist flying planes in to our biuldings.

Posted by: jim at May 15, 2004 05:37 PM

We all know that two masked people shared in the cutting of the head, right. The first cutter was wearing the blask mask, the one reading. The last one cutting and holding the head is wearing the white mask, the 6'5 person.

Posted by: trap at May 15, 2004 05:41 PM

i seen the tape......in some parts there is a dummy,like at the start of the tape.there also is lots off blood its a sort of close up shot of it if you pay attention.and he realy is dead so yeah it happened.the arabic is crummy too.my dad speaks arabic fairly well he was laughing at them when he heard them speakin.he said the only thing the got right was "allah wo akbar" which means god is the greatest.i say all of this to say.....america is in deep shit when this comes to light.i mean damm we are being run by fucking nazi's.and trust me the gov is hella prejuduce,and foul...[(***hint***)the AIDS virus was started around the time vietnam was going on to get rid off people of color{***the majority of the fighters then***}.just like MONO was started to keep people of color from mixing with white race.
read between the lines people you'll see alot of bullshit.i kid u not

Posted by: SLIMDARKY at May 15, 2004 05:41 PM

Commentary on Ham Na Ch

1) He/She began the attack by challenging the posters intellect;

2) He/She lied as to calling "razz" the object of his/her reply , because the 2 posts are almost simultaneous;

3) He/she called the poster a retard first by comparing to his/her child's mental problems;

4) He/she did not understand the intensity of the reply. Well, if you throw out attacks -expect something in return;

This is just an observation Ham Na Cha. I don't condone the reply you got, however it was provoked by you.

Posted by: OBSERVATIONS at May 15, 2004 05:42 PM

cyanide christ wrote: "The U.S. needed to boost its support to continue this unjust war for its evil agenda. It should be no surprise if later in the future when these Zionist controlled regimes (republicans and democrats) of the U.S. have fallen and are replaced with independent and free government it comes to light that the Pentagon has secretly awarded Nick Berg a medal for "his" sacrifice for the sake of the evil agenda of the current U.S. regimes."

jim wrote: Why don't you move to Iraq.
/

Wow what an intelligent rebuttal. I'm impressed. (Typical.) Has nothing to say about the rest of the post obviously. Please stay in America.

Posted by: CyanideChrist at May 15, 2004 05:47 PM

The reponse "Move to Iraq" is typical of the Bush supporters. there have been a few intelligent rebuttals but the majority are filled with the words fuck and moron. They are just following the lessons learned from heros like Rush and Bill O'Iamanidiot. Ignore them. You cannot change their minds just as their abusive rants don't change ours. Of course, if they presented a meaningful argument...they may have a chance.

Posted by: move to iraq at May 15, 2004 06:00 PM

What I know: Berg is dead. Bush is bad.

What's not clear: Why would Americans stage something this crazy so poorly? Let's assume the powers that be really are this perverse (they are) - why would they use a chair from Target and gold jewelry and wear a mask but give their name?

The second problem is that there were simply too many people involved to keep to secrecy. This is extreme and if the CIA gave such an order they would have a single, general-type person carry it out. If one of the many were to step forward they would do considerable damage to BushCo and the CIA. They are evil, but they are not stupid - no way would they risk something like this.

Also, other than being visibly extreme, this is in no way different from dropping a bomb on somebody. The only difference is that here you see it, there you don't. Why do you think BushCo wasn't allowing pictures of dead US soldiers to be shown? I feel sorry for Nick Berg, as I do about all the little kids my tax dollars helped murder. And their mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters.

-D
Vote Bush Out 2004!

Posted by: Duke at May 15, 2004 06:11 PM

10). Someone mentioned Berg worked a night shift in Abu Ghraib (i would like a source please)

"During his time in Iraq, he struggled with the Arabic language and worked at night on a tower in Abu Ghraib, a site of repeated attacks on U.S. convoys and the location of the notorious prison where U.S. soldiers abused Iraqi inmates. "
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/w-me/2004/may/12/051200387.html

http://www.prisonplanet.tv/articles/may2004/051104beheadsuscivilian.htm

Posted by: trap at May 15, 2004 06:11 PM

It's absurd to say that the news of a brutal murder of an American civilian will increase support for Bush. It has not happened yet. On the contrary, the more blood is shown on TV, the less support is for the war. That's exactly what the islamists want to achieve. Actually, all the violence we see in the Middle East, included Iraq, in intended to undermine the cause against Jihad. Islamists don't think they can win their war militarily, but they can win politically, by turning public opinion - in the West and the Arab world - against the Americans. As we've seen before, showing cruelty is extremely useful for this purpose. And don't forget that the culture of revenge is so well rooted in the islamic mindset, that killing innocents is seen like an act of divine justice. No mercy.

Posted by: Marcus at May 15, 2004 06:15 PM

I've been reading most of the comments here and there are a couple of things I'd like to address.

DNA. It's highly unlikely any DNA from the assassins would be found on Nick Berg's body simply from the handling of his body. If one of them was cut and residual tissue and/or blood was left on the body, DNA analysis may be possible. If Nick made a deep scratch on one of the assassins in a struggle before dying, there may be residual material under his finger nails. Given their masked attire, I can't imagine any hair with intact follicle root coming in contact with (and adhering to) the body.

Vinnie made a comment on being a photographer and how today's digital cameras have good quality. We don't know what sort of camera they had. It may not be a state of the art video camera that was used. Also consider the possibility that the video was edited. Unless they are using a digital camera with a digital editor, editing will create a loss in quality as the edited material will have at least one loss in generation. I'm guessing what may have happened (based on the poor quality of the tape) is that the original footage was dubbed over onto a "working" tape, that tape was edited down to another tape and that final edition was then transferred to computer for uploading, or possibly dubbed one more time to a format that could be uploaded to a computer. All of this would result in a loss of a few generations of video quality, which would only be exacerbated if poor quality materials were used to begin with.

Jugular vein. Whilst the jugular vein is a very important vessel, severing of the jugular vein is not as immediately life-threatening as severing the carotid artery. It is the severing of the carotid artery that would produce considerable blood loss and death faster than that of the jugular vein.

New York Times. The New York Times does not allow direct linking to their articles, so any links provided are somewhat useless.

CNN. An article on CNN's web site indicated that "CNN staff members familiar with Zarqawi's voice say the voice on the tape does not match his." ( See http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/05/11/decapitation/index.html ) Given that this is not the first time al-Zarqawi has been in the news, it's quite possible for media types to be familiar with the sound of his voice, particularly video-tape editors.

Nick Berg's beard. I have seen several references to his beard being a taliban style or Muslim style. My first impression was that it looked Amish.

http://www.foetofklee.com/pix/me/amish.jpg

As someone else has already pointed out, beard patterns differ. I imagine Nick Berg's beard is simply a reflection of his particular growth pattern.

tam: I don't think people are saying the beheading was fake. They are saying the sequence of events as presented on the tape appear to be manipulated. I think it is highly possible. Why would they first kill him, then behead him, and then edit the tape to look like a live beheading? For visual impact.

Also tam, the brain is highly vascularized and would have a considerable volume of blood. If you had ever seen the filmed footage of a suspected Viet Cong prisoner being executed by General Loan you would have seen there was a large volume of blood that fountained from the victim's brain. (And I do mean fountained.) It is possible for blood to spurt out of the body from a severed artery. Please read the comments near the bottom of the following linked page concerning arterial bleeding. (The carotid artery is definitely a majory artery.)

http://www.rochedalss.eq.edu.au/firstaid.htm

Posted by: amorphous cloud at May 15, 2004 06:18 PM

There are plenty of "white" Islamic militants.

The US Army has encountered a lot of foreign fighters in Iraq in addition to Iraqi partisans and militants.

There are plenty of Chechen fighters pouring into Iraq, Pakistan, & Afghanistan just for the chance to kill a few infidels.

As for the gold ring, some of the most hardcore fundamentalists are suprisingly ignorant of their own religion, especially relatively minor customs.

The high illiteracy rate in some of the poorer Arab states means very few militants have actually read the Quran from cover to cover. Audiotapes of mullahs proselytizing is a common method of spreading Islam, and their priority is anti-Israel and anti-western hatred, not fashion crimes.

Posted by: Greg at May 15, 2004 06:19 PM

I also find it amsuing that the Daniel Pearl murder is held up as an example of an authentic Islamic terror killing, while the Muslim terrorist in the picture is wearing a BIG GOLD RING ON HIS HAND.

Posted by: Greg at May 15, 2004 06:22 PM

Stay focused, this is exactly what somebody wants...a diversion, this may be a double diversion a second diversion to offset the first. This is like an Easter Egg hunt. Something is happening now its just a matter of reading the other news that they dont want you to read.

Do you remember what was going on at the White House before the bone was thrown at the public? hint: Prior to the pictures and movies flooding the net, Bush/Cheney/Clinton at the 911 commision hearing, two congressman got up and walked out during the hearing, Clinton had a lot of discrepancy...well?

While everybody's watching the movies and pics oil per barel just broke all time high $41.56+ 3rd day over $40. ...It didnt make the news! We can mix this all up and just say it was fear & terror thats driving the prices up.

Reports are slowly leaking that we have peaked on the world oil supply

Warnings from a senior Russian official that deliveries from the world's second biggest oil exporter have hit a ceiling after many years of growth underlined the strain on global supply.

Economic expansion in China, bolstered by renewed U.S. growth, has placed world supplies under increasing strain, leaving OPEC except for its top producer Saudi Arabia, pumping almost flat out to meet demand.

OPEC is already pumping more than two million barrels a day in excess of its official limits of 23.5 million bpd.

Rumsfeld was just on the verge of quiting prior to the video.

Over 90% of the prisoners in Abu Ghraib dont belong ... did it make the news? They are slowly being trickled out, over 300 today.

or maybe just maybe they are getting the public ready to start the flag waving for another major war

Posted by: trap at May 15, 2004 06:23 PM

US Forces found Berg's headless body. How he was decapitated is unknown.

The MI/PSYOPs/Civilian clowns hastily filmed this staged, hokey video (w/a docile ringer as Berg)that could've been cobbled together by a 5th grader, to take heat off Abu Graib story and convince any "fence-sitters" of our righteous cause! This explains a date stamp on the video 2 days (May 11) after US Forces recovered his body May 9.
Berg fell into their hands with no US fingerprints for his death and plot only involved the video people in what was merely a fraud---not murder!

Of course, now Bush is claiming the dead/one'legged Zarqawi involvement proves a link to Saddam...!

Posted by: tacfire at May 15, 2004 06:31 PM

"Just to explain, the Stretch Armstrong comment was made to point out all of the people who keep going on about the lack of blood. I myself and I would hope the rest of you would be in this category have never slit another persons throat. It is only speculation as to how a person would react and how much blood would flow. It's been stated that he didn't move and you would expect that his lip would atleast flitch when told that he was going to die. It's been reported that he spoke only limited Arabic. Do you think the first words you would learn in Arabic would be about how someone would say they are going to kill you? That's ignorant, He probably had no idea that they planned on killing him." - Rob M.


Well, Rob, I was under the impression that he spoke the language pretty well. In fact, I would be surprised to learn that he survived alone in a hostile country for many weeks with only a basic grasp of the language. If, as you say, he only knew a little Arabic, then, yes, maybe he wouldn't have been tipped off by the speech. But what about when one of the "terrorists" grabbed him by the hair and pulled him to the ground? What about when they started to saw at his neck? Do you think he would've clued in then? Because he doesn't really react to that, either.

As for the blood, no, I've never cut somebody's head off, but I do know a little about human anatomy. The blood vessels in the neck are far too large to be closed off by vasoconstriction, so that idea doesn't work. It would take more than a few minutes to clot, so that's out. Somebody earlier in the thread said something about the vein being cut before the artery, and how that could've dropped the pressure in the artery and prevented the arterial spurting. Yes, the vein is outside of the artery, but just barely. It's possible both the vein and the artery were severed on the same cut. And the only way for the pressure to drop in the artery would be for the body to lose a significant amount of blood and, as has been mentioned before, that's just not seen in the video.

Also, if a body has nine pints of blood, two large holes, and is lying vertically, there's going to be a mess, regardless of whether the blood's oozing or spurting. Why doesn't the knife get bloody? Why doesn't anything run onto the orange suit?

I don't know who's behind it, but this video is an obvious fake. Maybe it's the US government in some grand scheme to take over the world, or maybe it's some pranksters playing a joke on everybody. But the video is fake.

Posted by: Phil at May 15, 2004 06:45 PM

Is there a doctor in the house who can explain the lack of blood splatters during the beheading? My understanding is that only dead bodies do not bleed.

Posted by: anon at May 15, 2004 06:49 PM

You just explained it, anon. Dead bodies do not bleed.

Posted by: Phil at May 15, 2004 06:57 PM

Well...these postings have been interesting and some are quite amusing. It is a good thing we are questioning the things we are being shown now...especially following the missing WMDs fiasco; the staged pulling down of Saddam's statue; and the abuse and killings of- I stress detainees and NOT prisoners in the hands of so-called 'liberators'. We are being lied to through and through, and a growing number of people are getting really tired of it.

Posted by: MY at May 15, 2004 06:58 PM

Let's all stop calling the video tape of Berg's ritualized body desecration an execution. The video is not a contemporaneous recording of events. It is a construct with video and audio editing and overdubs. The is no blood on Berg or the knife wielding butcher in the decapitation scene. Nick Berg's carotid artery was severed when he had no blood pressure (dead).

The fact that the US government and media persist in calling this an execution by Al Qaeda operatives in Iraq and refuse to acknowledge obvious and irrefutable representations on the video tape that contradict that assertion leaves their veracity in doubt. Who killed Nick Berg and when did he die? Certainly the answer to that question remains to be answered.

Posted by: brisa at May 15, 2004 07:04 PM

"During his time in Iraq, he struggled with the Arabic language and worked at night on a tower in Abu Ghraib, a site of repeated attacks on U.S. convoys and the location of the notorious prison where U.S. soldiers abused Iraqi inmates. "

Just for clarification, that's ON a tower, not IN. He repaired a communications tower in Abu Ghraib, as opposed to being on the night shift in a guard tower in Abu Ghraib.

Posted by: MadBlue at May 15, 2004 07:06 PM

I just watched the video. It is so totally fake. No blood...no movement by the victim. I don't know how anyone can believe this is true. Nick is dead. That much is true. These guys cut off his head? No way. There would be so much blood the camera lens would be covered. The fact that Mr. Berg is obviously dead is sad but, that he was killed in this video? No way in hell. Fabricated BS by someone.
How about we start watching some videos of Iraqi innocent children being bombed and as a result either dead or maimed. Would that make you sad or does it have to be a European US citizen before you feel empathy?

Posted by: JUSTWATCHED at May 15, 2004 07:16 PM

After reading your so called theory, I have found a couple of problems with your argument. First, you mentioned that the so called CIA operatives were all wearing bullet proof vests. These are not bullet proof vests. These are the type of vests that are worn by suicide bombers. If you watch enough CNN you will see that many of the Islamic terrorists and Jihadists wearing the exact same type of vest. A standard military bullet proof vest extends all the way down to the waist to provide full protection of all vital organs. These "bullet proof vests" only cover half the chest. I guess these CIA operatives decided to wear the Gary Coleman model instead of the standard issue. Secondly, you as well as many of your misinformed readers have thrown out the tidbit about how true practitioners of Islam would not wear gold rings and how one of the individuals in the video was wearing a gold ring. Hmmm, that's interesting. Look closely at the very picture that you posted on your website of
Daniel Pearl in which you say this is how a true terrorist look. I see a gold ring on the very hand that is holding the gun to Daniel Pearl's heard. I guess this was a CIA operative as well. Finally I would like to say, before you go off and start posting garbage like this on the internet, do your homework first. Those two examples I just pointed out shows your lack of knowledge. Its bad enough coming up with such an outlandish story but also not being able to defend your argument with fact is another.

Posted by: wade at May 15, 2004 07:16 PM

In its context there are very curious inconsistencies in the whole thing, some are have already been mentioned in these postings and therefore i need not refer to them.

HOwever what I do find interesting is the activities and whereabouts of Nick Berg before his death in the hands of so-called 'terrorists'. For instance, the US authorities deny they had captured Berg and instead passing the buck to the Iraqi authorities...but as we know the Americans and its allies ARE the Iraqi authorities for the time being at least. Berg's family insists he was detained and have records to prove it...so is the US government now calling them liars?

And what is also peculiar are Berg's connection to some of the characters who have been implicated in the 9/11 attacks and Oklahoma bombing.

Why was his body found on the 10th May when the recording of the tape shows 11th May??? Just what is going on?!

Anyone who is ignoring these facts WAKE UP AND SMELL THE DAMN COFFEE!!

There are more important facts than some dumb white chairs and yellow walls, they are being over looked by the mainstream media. I dont think white lawn chairs would be popular in Iraq, as there are no lawns there, no Walmart, and i guess the desert heat which can reach to over 40 degrees centigrade would probably melt those chairs, so i doubt they would be very popular over there.

Why was the footage posted on the net? Why was it not sent to Aljazera?

Posted by: Geenee at May 15, 2004 07:23 PM

excellent articles to think about


http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_7638.shtml


http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_7655.shtml

Posted by: anonymous at May 15, 2004 07:23 PM

i think this was set up to save some ones ass,we as THE PEOPLE of this country have the right to clean out washington,the scum that is in power in this country need to go.and this tape is proof of that.

Posted by: mike at May 15, 2004 07:37 PM

If this is a conspiracy and indeed it appears to point in that direction then we have to consider what the goal or aim of the key players are.

To me Nick Berg appears to be a man with dubious connections. He was detained by the US army, then released then just THREE days later he happens to get captured by the al-queda and then killed at time that was very convienient for the Bush administration...the effect of the release of the video was that it prevented the disclosure of more even more damning and atrocious images from Abu Gharib from coming out. Are these so-called terrorists merely the footman or grunts of the CIA or Mossad?

Posted by: Path to Redemption at May 15, 2004 07:39 PM

like i said, this tape is not a fake beheading. it is a real beheading.

try to do a little medical research. i'm a liberal. something with it all stinks. i don't trust that the murderers are who they say.

but the beheading is real. let that go.

Posted by: tam at May 15, 2004 07:48 PM

If washington continues with this crap, I can see a great tide coming, and only the ordinary people will suffer the consequences of this.

Posted by: Path to Redemption at May 15, 2004 07:49 PM

Wearing white sneakers and being overweight are not physical attributes limited to Americans.

Posted by: Manou Joassaint at May 15, 2004 07:50 PM

"like i said, this tape is not a fake beheading. it is a real beheading."

Really, and how do you determine that? Sure looks fake to me. Blood? none. what gives with that? They all took a shower and hosed down the room?

Posted by: tam at May 15, 2004 07:51 PM

Well for one the green vest shown are not bulletproof vest there einstein. Those are magazine carriers for AK-47 assault rifles. There worn around the chest and the magazines can be instantly removed. And how you explain the terrorist wearing a golden ring pointing a gun at Pearl..hmm gee guess that was faked also..so stfu you anti-american prick. Your as dumb as you sound

Posted by: Learn the Facts at May 15, 2004 07:53 PM

Sorry Tam: did not mean to use your name for the posting. I meant To Tam.

Posted by: TO TAM: at May 15, 2004 07:53 PM

the guy who pulls out the knife and does the initial part of the beheading is wearing a black facemask /scarf, at the end the guy finishing the beheading and holding up the decapitated head is wearing a white scarf what happened someone get tired in the middle of the dirty work ? did this alqueada guy decide to switch scarves?why isnt this being dicussed i cant be the only one who has noticed........ something stinks here

Posted by: thinker at May 15, 2004 07:54 PM

the guy who pulls out the knife and does the initial part of the beheading is wearing a black facemask /scarf, at the end the guy finishing the beheading and holding up the decapitated head is wearing a white scarf what happened someone get tired in the middle of the dirty work ? did this alqueada guy decide to switch scarves?why isnt this being dicussed i cant be the only one who has noticed........ something stinks here

Posted by: thinker at May 15, 2004 07:54 PM

Gee...you sound intelligent. Prick...awfully big word don't you think?

Posted by: to learn the facts at May 15, 2004 07:55 PM

If I may

"notice the white chair in the lower left corner. Now - look at the chair Nicholas Berg is sitting in!! It's the same fucking chair!!"

No. It appears to be the same model chair.

"what is Nicholas Berg doing in an orange prison jump suit?"

It's not a 'prison jump suit'.

"As to can see on terrorists 2, 4, and 5 - the BULLET PROOF VESTS. American MPs wear them all the time. To them it's like putting on their underwear. hey wear them so that if a prisoner tries to make a knife and stab them in the heart - they are protected. I guess they never thought they would show up under the terrorist costume."

I don't see bullet proof vests, I see ammo vests.
American MPs don't wear them against knife thrusts - they're useless in that regard. They also don't wear them 'all the time'.

"The Tape was Edited - Yes - there are wo time lines on the tape."

It could mean poor video equipment. Camera one broke, so they put the tape in camera two.

Posted by: brian at May 15, 2004 07:58 PM

If you are disgusted by the theory's presented here, but have not seen the video, then don't bother posting. If the only flaw you can find in the theory is regarding a white chair, then you didn't read the whole theory and should not post. It was clearly stated that each point in the theory, by itself, is feasible. It's when they all come together that it begins to seem fishy.

I'm tired of these (to quote the late great Bill Cooper) "sheeple" coming in here getting angry because some of us do not support this bogus war. I also despise people who try and hide behind the troops as a justification for supporting the war. I can guarantee that a lot of the people involved in this war do not want to be there. If given a choice they would gladly give GW the bird as they haul ass out of the war zone. Maybe we should take the view point that 'supporting the troops' means looking out for their best interest and bringing them home. I know I don't feel like a hero for the time I spent in the gulf helping the government accomplish their hidden agenda. As a matter of fact, I feel like a fool for letting myself be used as a shield that will allow those in control of this mess to keep the blood off their hands. If anything should be an indicator of how much our government could care less, then look at the abuse scandal. The issue is to wide spread to be just a hand full of deviants acting out. The only acceptable answer is that some high ranking officials made this policy and now they are feigning ignorance and allowing 'the troops' to take the fall. Screw your pro-war 'support the troops' garbage. GW could care less about the troops. The only thing your war cry is supporting is the police state we live in under the Bush administration.

Posted by: jd at May 15, 2004 08:02 PM

Kudos to you jd. thanks...end this insanity now. Vote Bush OUT!

Posted by: mary at May 15, 2004 08:06 PM

when slick willy was president were ppl gettin beheaded??????bush can pack his shit and head back to texas

Posted by: smokey at May 15, 2004 08:09 PM

when slick willy was president were ppl gettin beheaded??????bush can pack his shit and head back to texas

Posted by: smokey at May 15, 2004 08:09 PM

Do all of you realize in this day of PCs and photoshop et al that anything can be faked? Do not use pictures and videos as proof of anything. all can be faked.

Posted by: fake at May 15, 2004 08:11 PM

this is not a fake someone was beheaded so fake keep ur 2 cents to ur self plz

Posted by: smokey at May 15, 2004 08:12 PM

Seriously, it bothers me that i havent seen anyone elses posts be deleted except mine. All the people who get on here and talk so much mindless shit about us folk who will never submit to the bogus war, or the bogus president, are obviously allowed to post whatever the fuck they want, no matter how inflammatory and immature it is...yet i post 2 or 3 huge posts on my views, and boom they vanish after a few hours....any idea why this would be? I have a few.

Posted by: john doe at May 15, 2004 08:27 PM

Well Phil, I suggest you look at MadBlue's post which is about 5 posts after yours. It clearly states that Nick Berg struggled with the Arabic language. I had taken spanish in High School and I know for a fact that I couldn't comprehend what anyone would say in Spain. It's like this you'll have different dialecs in each region. Not unlike that of a Boston accent. My aunt (by marriage) took spanish in college and took a trip to Europe after college and she said she had a hard time keeping up with those in the spanish speaking countries. Even my spanish teacher said the same thing and he taught spanish for years and took trips to Mexico every year.

By the way I had read the above post in an article from a more legit web site than the ones being sited. That's where I got my information about his Arabic knowlege. It didn't come from my "preconcieve expectations".

Here's a little bit more from the article that MadBlue got his info from linked in the above post by trap at May 15, 2004 06:11 PM

An employee described Berg as a "nice guy" who "always smiled and said hello," unlike other foreign guests. "Once he told me, 'I'd like to learn Arabic.'" -- NOTE what he just said.

"He was very sportive - had muscles - and liked the Internet," another hotel worker recalled. "He usually left the hotel in the morning and returned late, around 10 p.m., usually carrying a sack of beer and mineral water." -- SACK OF BEER huh last time I checked beer could make you lethargic.

Another post will be shortly following this.

Posted by: Rob M. at May 15, 2004 08:30 PM

Alerka do all average republicans sound like you?

Posted by: Path to Redemption at May 15, 2004 08:32 PM

Hey John Doe: notice that the following posts did not get deleted. I have had mine deleted...what gives?

FOCK YOU

Posted by: Steven Fock at May 14, 2004 03:44 PM
FOCK YOU, YOU FUTHER MUCKER

Posted by: Futher Mucker at May 14, 2004 03:47 PM
SUCK MY HAIRY SCHWETTY BALLS

Posted by: SUCK MY BALLS at May 14, 2004 03:51 PM

Posted by: m at May 15, 2004 08:35 PM

I think the established consensus here is to the point of .. Theres something just a little off about the whole video, timing, audio, dates, not to mention conflicting stories and ever changing media statements. Too many strange questions and convenient distractions. Why is the film quality *just* grainy enough? Why isn't there any blood on his impeccable orange jumpsuit? Why does it seem like the masked assailant is trying too hard to keep up with the pages (audio), yet seems to end up on the same page every 2nd flip? Why does the voice sound completely emotionless? Why do small excerpts from media sources that are referenced in areas of articles linked here suddenly dissapear? Why are we able to track domains back to london and denmark, after the sites themselves are mysteriously gone? Aside from the remarkable resemblence of furniture and decoration choices, not to mention the ressurections of legless terrorists, I think there is a definite issue here. I could go on and repeat everything thats been stated on this page, but repitition cheapens the sentiment. Heres a fresh idea... What about an autopsy report? Has there even been an autopsy? why cant I find any mention of prometheus anything on www.pasourcenet.com? or any other business search I try? If someone can correct me on that, Id appreciate it.

The real question that needs addressing, I guess, is what are you going to do about it?
...Keep typing?


Posted by: overwhelmed at May 15, 2004 08:36 PM


Autopsy...wouldn't one think the family would demand it? wonder if one is in the works. Does anyone know?

Posted by: mary at May 15, 2004 08:38 PM

Take the color values of pixels from both the wall and floor that are present in images of the room that Nick Berg was beheaded in and compute the ratio of the R/G/B values. Look for the same ratios in other photos to find possible matches with what building the video was shot in.

Have fun!

Posted by: Hklasvdvlias at May 15, 2004 08:44 PM

I saw the video; the end made me, quite literally, sick to my stomach, but the complete lack of blood did stick in my mind. The quality of the video, admittedly, left much to be desired, but it was clear enough to see that there were no arterial spurts as would be expected when a living person is beheaded. Also, from the lack of struggle put up by the victim, it is certainly not implausible to suggest that he had been killed prior to his beheading. The beheading was added to instill outrage, and to incite pro-war sentiments from a populace with dwindling tolerance for our remarkably idiotic leader.

To anyone with a functioning brain and the ability to pull a lever in November; get Bush out of office. For your own sake as much as mine.

Posted by: R. Ricjards at May 15, 2004 08:46 PM

Why would terrorists hide their I.D.? What do they care? Its not like we're going to capture them anyway, and if we did, they know there's always more of them to compensate for their loss. These people also dont care about death. What do they have to lose?

Posted by: Chris at May 15, 2004 08:51 PM

Exactly....good point. unless they don't want anyone to know...especially if they are not who they claim to be.

Posted by: To Chris at May 15, 2004 08:53 PM

Possibly,the terrorists wanted to make it look like the Americans did it in order to demoralize them. Whether or not they are capable of that kind of thinking is another matter. The CIA isn't generally so sloppy as to leave clues like the orange jumpsuit. My best guess is that it was done by some of the American hired mercenaries that the administration has tried to downplay the existence of by calling them "support" and "service" workers.

Posted by: Mike B. at May 15, 2004 08:54 PM

Autopsy, I was thinking that myself. From ABC... " FBI forensic agents will also examine the telecommunications expert's body, found on Saturday in Baghdad and now back in the United States. Agents will be looking for any sign of what's called "trace evidence" — tiny hairs, fibers or fingerprints — that may have been left on Berg's body or the orange jumpsuit he was wearing when he was killed. As the Bush administration has vowed to hunt down Berg's killers, these small pieces of evidence and clues could help catch and prosecute the perpetrators."

But as we all know, a public memorial service for Berg was held at 3:30 p.m. Friday, the body was buried that morning.

Now just what would Gil Grissom say? "...the killer as left part of himself behind on the victim, we just have to find it"

...well, so much for the CSI investagation.


Posted by: trap at May 15, 2004 08:54 PM

looks like he squirms around to me. hard to domuch tied up with an overweight terrorist sittin yourlegs also, after about five or ten seconds of hackin on my neck i think id slip into shock and stop kickin round too............though something is not right defintely a conspiracy here

Posted by: to r ricjards at May 15, 2004 08:56 PM

saw the video tape but not the 'execution'.
cnn has the video tape that shows the 'arabs'
reading.
watch the video. the arab in the middle moves his right leg and appears to push something behind nick causing him to jump and move. also
you can see part of nick's pant legs inflate like a poof of air. the middle guy has his leg on some type of device that makes nick move. watch it.

Posted by: becky at May 15, 2004 08:57 PM

Wouldn't you think the family would demand this? The whole thing is weird. Maybe he was with the CIA. Nothing makes sense. His family's outrage should include an autopsy. Maybe they have and we don't know. What a bunch of secrecy. Typical Bush.

Posted by: Response to Trap at May 15, 2004 08:57 PM

I remember thinking, when they were speaking of the memorial service on msnbc, that it was odd that the friend that was speaking at the moment was the one to tell the news that the funeral had happened that morning. Usually, when public attention is drawn to an incident with such tragedy, people are informed of these things before hand, aren't they? Why hasn't there been any talk of autopsy findings at all?

Posted by: overwhelmed at May 15, 2004 08:58 PM

I like chicken.

Posted by: DoPeKiD at May 15, 2004 09:00 PM

Okay I now admit that the part of the video could've been stage. Due in part to one major thing that I just learned. But it also explains why Nick Berg didn't put up much of a struggle. And it all goes back to Daniel Pearl. The same one whom I believe Marc Perkel was trying to show had a look of fear when they told him he was going to die.

It appears that Daniel Pearl refused on several occasions to be sedated. So using the sedation aspect of Daniel Pearl as a template it is not out of the realm of possiblity that he was sedated.

"Pearl, who was kidnapped in Karachi in January 2002, knew for several hours that he was about to be killed, but resisted repeated attempts to sedate him, police now believe."

Secondly and this is the best part. I seem that when they video taped Daniel Pearl execution the idiot operating the video camera completely missed his death. I presume he didn't have it in him to fully watch him get killed. So they reconstructed the final moments before decapitating him.

"Shocking video film of Pearl's murder, seen around the world via the internet, was in fact a partial reconstruction of what had happened a few moments earlier, officers have been told."

"The camera operator made a mistake and missed the moment of his death, which his murderers then re-enacted, before decapitating the reporter."

So from my perspective the Conspiracy has been shown to be a sham. And here is the link to the above news clips about Daniel Pearl.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/05/09/wpearl09.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/05/09/ixworld.html

Then again maybe GW and our leader are actually in bed with the Terrorists. Guys back away from the tree so you can see the forrest. Everything pointed out by Marc Perkel can be explained.

Oh yeah Phil maybe you can tell me why you hit on the Stretch Armstrong part of my post but didn't touch the fact (you notice I said fact) that Marc Perkel claimed that Saddam Hussien would be reinstated. Please explain. Thanks,

Your friend in seeking the truth.

Posted by: Rob M. at May 15, 2004 09:01 PM

Yes, it does not make sense. What is your take on this? If that was my son...you can believe I would leave no stone unturned.

Posted by: TO OVERWHELMED at May 15, 2004 09:01 PM

has anyone though that terorist staged all those "strange, things we are seeing to start all the conspiracy theories..for example they might have seen the abu ghraid prison picutres,the chair,orange jumpsuits so they provided those things somewhere. Also maybe they chose those fat terorists to look like westerns,told them how to behave...also since it is "knows" that zarquawi is jordanian and apparently FBI said it has one leg - maybe they knew all this so they "hired" the guy who doesnt speak arabic and has both legs and then identify as Zarquawi. all in all,

1. if US staged this even it is horribly bad staged,disaster.
2.if it is genuine then there are many things that jsut arent explained yet BUT killers are terorists.
3.if it is staged by terorist or mossad - then it is very cleverly done to inspire conspiracy theories.But on the other hand that only helped bush and not them.it only can help them in future where maybe american public would get sick of bush and he would loose on elections..

Posted by: w at May 15, 2004 09:06 PM

I haven't had time to read of the responses here. But I could think of @ least two reasons why Berg was killed, the 2nd reason being the clincher, the first being why he was detained.

First reason: http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Northeast/05/13/berg.encounter/
connected with the fact that he was recently in Iraq for what US intellingence may suspect was for terrorist purposes, and not for the reasons Berg had stated.

Second reason:
On April 5, the Bergs - frustrated at his incarceration - filed a suit in a federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the US military.

The response to these is to kill Breg & make it look like the work of terrorists.

Anybody who believes that JFK was killed by the same type of corrupt "whatever they want to believe they are", please step forward & contemplate...

Posted by: WowWEE!! at May 15, 2004 09:07 PM

To W: What is the final outcome? What would be gained by your scenario?

Posted by: TO W at May 15, 2004 09:08 PM

I think, imho, the reasons for nick berg even being in iraq are sketchy. contracting telecommunications professional? Is Iraq where I have to go to find a nice, funny, healthy young man? Just how many of these guys are out there walking the countryside fixing antennas? This is so very shrouded in mystery, almost to the point that it competes with some great hollywood movies. And that, is a sad statement.

My guess: Something went horribly bad at the prison, Maybe he was there for reasons a little more fitting than fixing antennas. What a convenient time to draw the media attention away from oil prices, american torture, plumetting approval for the bush administration, and this so called liberation fiasco. It's so sad to know that most people will believe whatever the media feeds them, unquestionably, never considering who's feeding the media.

Posted by: overwhelmed at May 15, 2004 09:10 PM

The whole military should be fired and replaced with new soldiers. The military should then only be used for defense of our country, not for oil theft. I'm certain the men in the pics are employees of our defense dept. maybe they are not soldiers, but they are mercenaries hired by Rummy, nonetheless.

Posted by: deric at May 15, 2004 09:15 PM

OVERWHELMED: I think you are right. I think this situation is completely shrouded in mystery. From the reaction of his family to the reaction from the press...the press seems to be somewhat quiet about this...almost like they know it is fake. Only the outrageous rightwing talkers are using this as amunition. Everyone else is strangly quiet....not yelling as usual. The mainstream is only bringing it up as a side note. Something is not right.

Posted by: MARY at May 15, 2004 09:16 PM

Blue Pimernel: add Aristide to that list.

Posted by: m at May 15, 2004 09:22 PM

can we collectively, and factually, build some kind of timeline, with news article support, from when he was first arrested to now? There seems to be a lot of conflicting and changing starements from the press and certain officials, I think it could help to keep things straight. The path to the end is what tells the story afterall, not the conclusion handed to us.

Posted by: overwhelmed at May 15, 2004 09:23 PM

How would we do that? I am "overwhelmed" and have no access to anything. We need family to pursue this via autopsy. It may be too late. I don't understand the family just buying this poor video as the answer

Posted by: mary at May 15, 2004 09:26 PM

I'm sure after the beheading the hired assasins were immediately executed by another Arab with a street sweeper, who was probably later dropped out of a plane at 3,000 feet over the ocean, this way no one directly connected to the murder could be alive to testify against our government. The timing of this and Perkel's facts are just all too coincidental. Scary stuff!

Posted by: fairandbalanced at May 15, 2004 09:29 PM

fairandbalanced: you may be on to something. would love to know who the supposed beheaders are. One would think they would profess to the world like bin laden did.

Posted by: m at May 15, 2004 09:34 PM

This is interesting. Coming back to the ass scratching done by one of the masked wonders. I'm serious here so work with me on this one.

Can anyone tell me which hand was used to do the scratching?
Reason I ask is because it's my understanding that Arabs wipe with their left as the right is used for eating, shaking hands.

Out of habit or his second nature, I would think this would be enough for this guy to ever even think of reaching for his ass with his right hand.

If he's scratching with his right then no way this guy is Arab.

Posted by: Alxandro at May 15, 2004 09:36 PM

Here's an interesting link I used for my earlier post:

http://home.att.net/~professorboris/SPECTRE/Nick_berg.htm

Posted by: WowWEE!! at May 15, 2004 09:37 PM

Here's your timeline: http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11649298&BRD=2212&PAG=461&dept_id

March: Berg, a telecommunications expert, travels to Iraq through Jordan after first working in Iraq in December and January. He inspects communications facilities and makes plans to return to the United States at the end of March, his father says.

_ March 24: Iraqi police arrest Berg in the northern city of Mosul because local authorities believed he may have been involved in "suspicious activities." During his subsequent detainment, FBI agents interview Berg three times and conclude he was not involved in any criminal or terrorist activity.

_ April 6: Berg is released from custody and advised by U.S. officials to take a flight out of Iraq with their assistance. Berg refuses the offer and instead checks into the Al-Fanar Hotel in Baghdad.

_ April 9: The last time Berg makes contact with his family.

_ April 10: The last time Berg is in contact with U.S. officials in the Iraqi capital. Berg does not return to the hotel.

_ May 8: The U.S. military discovers Berg's remains in Baghdad.

_ May 11: A video posted on an al-Qaida-linked Web site shows Berg's beheading and says the execution was carried out to avenge abuses of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison.

The May 11th information was probably added when they posted the clip on the website. Although I don't speak or read Arabic the start of the video is a macro. I could easily had been added later. I'm confused about the comments on using military and AM/PM on the video. It looked to me as if it was all done in military time. Now there is about 4 weeks worth of time where no one knows where he was. Read into that what you like... since I already figure most of you will.

Posted by: Rob M. at May 15, 2004 09:39 PM

ALXANDRO: EFF U

Posted by: fu at May 15, 2004 09:41 PM

WowWee: Thanks for the link.

Posted by: J at May 15, 2004 09:47 PM

Hey WowWEE! you might want to tell whomever created the timeline for that website that they got it all wrong. He wasn't released on April 6th and then killed on April 7th. Since he was last seen on April 10th he couldn't had been killed then. That adds even more to the May 11th date on the video.

Posted by: Rob M. at May 15, 2004 09:48 PM

Hey fu, what's up?

If you're Arab and I somehow offended you I'm sorry. I don't mean any disrespect in any way I just want my question answered.

You can even confirm what I've heard about the right and left hands.


Posted by: Alxandro at May 15, 2004 09:53 PM

Did someone say 5-11?

Posted by: Alxandro at May 15, 2004 09:54 PM

Thanks Rob M.

Another link:
http://www.rense.com/general52/berge.htm


Posted by: WowWEE!! at May 15, 2004 09:54 PM

The circumstances of the video release are also strange. A Reuters journalist in Dubai first named the Muntada al-Ansar al-Islami website as the source for the video at www.al-ansar.biz.

Although the site has now been shut down, Aljazeera.net looked at the site within 90 minutes of the story breaking – and could find no such video footage.

But Fox News, CNN and the BBC were all able to download the footage from the Arabic-only
website and report the story within the hour.

Posted by: Alxandro at May 15, 2004 09:56 PM

Your welcome, I just want people to look at accurate information. Did you see my post about Daniel Pearl's execution. I believe alot of what is being discussed is explained in it.

Posted by: Rob M. at May 15, 2004 09:57 PM

OMG I HAEV A CHAIR! HAHA TIN FOIL HAT. BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Jezu, people. If you have NOTHING to add to the discussion, Do NOT Post. How stupid do you have to be to not realize that?

At this point I have very little to add seeing as how I couldn't wade through the garbage to find what points had been made, dismissed or are currently being discussed. Since certain things keep comming up, I'll respond to those.

Bullet proof vests are worn over undergarments and under overgarments. Ammo vests are worn on the outside so you can freaking get to your ammo. Wearing an ammo vest does not prohibit you from wearing a bullet proof vest in any way. Seeing as how thick they were around the center, they may well have had kevlar underneath.

Why would someone who announces his identity still wear a mask? Because not everyone had announced thier identity and the one guy without a mask (who is supposed to do the killing) would be less scary than the four guys around him who were wearing masks. Therefore I contend it could have easily been done for aesthetics.

There are however many untruths and incongruencies in this story, such as the story of how a civillian got past immigration and found work at the highest secruity prison in the country repairing communications equipment. Like any investigation based on logic, there is no conclusive proof, only a series of facts placed together to form the most coherent model. Is it possible that Nick Berg was killed a month ago in retaliation for prisoner abuse and his body was only disposed of and discovered weeks ago? Yes, it is. Is it possible that the intelligence community was somehow involved in a public relations based effort, also yes.
Could a chair tie two places together? How about a chair and a jumpsuit? How about a chair, a jumpsuit, wall coloring, a baseboard, posturing, skin coloring, obvious digital funkery, and the usurping of the laws human circulatory function?

As sure as you breathe, someone is lying.
Now it's a matter of finding out who is lying when and why.

Posted by: DoInK at May 15, 2004 09:59 PM

something just isnt right,nothing has been right since bush has been in office,things are only going to get worse,we have gotten ourselves way in over our heads,and as someone said earlier this is like some damn sick american-iraqi reality show remember that nick berg was someones son,brother not just a guy getting decapitated by a bunch of masked cowards

~uhoh~

Posted by: uhoh at May 15, 2004 09:59 PM

The chair doesn't mean anything. The ring is questionable. Fat guys, maybe. But Berg does look pertty thin considering the bulked-up photo of him elsewhere on the net. Would the Bush cartel do it? Absolutely - no question. This administration is built upon lies. The video is bad but there is clearly lots of blood for those who want it. The head even drips. The time delay may be explained by having him give his identification on one day then filming the killing the next. The orange suit looks like silk pajamas when he's sitting in the chair. Maybe it's just the bad video.

Support the troops? SURE - BRING 'em HOME. They've been given illegal orders. The US committed open forward agression against 2 sovreign nations who posed no threats.

Get behind the government? HELL NO! They stink to high heaven. Besides the government is my employee, not my parent. Disent is the essence of democracy - the supression of disent is the essence of tyranny.

If you don't like it VOTE?? We tried that in 2000 and look what happened.

On a side note - if you're looking for conspiracies, check out letsroll911.com - it's catching some pretty serious viewers considering most of the 911 hijackers identified by the government are still alive. Of course no media questions though.

911 is the JFK of the 21st century - so sayeth the soothsayer.

Fly your American flag upside down - it's a distress signal.

Isn't it time for a "peace President"?

Total WMD found as of 05-16-04 = ZERO

Peace to the Berg family and to Mr. Berg. I apologize for Mr. Bush's severe ineptness and for his cabinet's lack of compassion and contempt for peace.

Peace to Iraq and Afghanistan, the Iraqi people and the Afghan people. I didn't want my government to do this to you. If I could change it I would. Many of us will try in November but don't hold your breath. Our election system was put on "pause" 4 years ago. Americans genuinely love peace. It's our current government that dislikes it. I apologize for them and their actions because I know they never will and you deserve to hear that.

Posted by: soothsayer at May 15, 2004 10:00 PM

Alxandro don't forget that Al Jezzera at one time was reporting what Baghdad Bob said as fact. You can't take everything at it's word. I don't exactly trust all of the media but am extremely suspect of Al Jezzera.

Posted by: Rob M. at May 15, 2004 10:01 PM

The CIA most likely offered the Berg killers ten thousand dollars a piece to perform the beheading. What they didn't know was that in a short time they too would be murdered to cover the whole operation. It strikes me as strange that Berg appeared somewhat Arab looking in the way his beard and hair were growing. It's possible that the now deceased people in the video were caucasion and were told that Berg was an Al Qaeda operative and that they were going to be sending a stern warning to terrorists by beheading Berg and reading an Arabian script to other terrrorists as part of the scene. With the Arabian appearance Berg had aquired, they would probably believe they were just killing a terrorist, when in fact they were killing one of their own countrymen. With this administration it's not that hard to believe anything is possible.

Posted by: teedoff at May 15, 2004 10:01 PM

Mark,

I love you. I love Bart Cop. But I think you left the reservation on this one. We're getting into Battleship Maine type stuff here.

Posted by: Ricky at May 15, 2004 10:04 PM

WowWee: how are you finding all these great links. Thank you!

Posted by: j at May 15, 2004 10:07 PM

There is something wrong about this video, the audio was obviously dubbed.
At the beginning when Berg is identifying himself, he is barely even audible, typical built-in camera-mic audio response.
Looks like the camcorder is probably about 6 feet away from Berg.

Then he is sitting on the floor with the masked ones behind him. This time the camera is obviously now further away from Berg since his body covers a lot less of the screen.
Further still are the guys behind him, yet they can be heard more clearly and distinctly.

Shit, the recent Mexican UFO video with the pilots speaking in Spanish seems a lot more legit than this.

Posted by: Alxandro at May 15, 2004 10:13 PM

Berg's father, believing (as most americans) in freedom of speech, spoke freely & publicly & negativly about the Bush administration & probably against the intelligence community. The result, father Berg's son is killed, the blame goes aginst the terrorists.

"His parents contacted our office, the F.B.I., the State Department," said Representative Jim Gerlach, a Republican from Upper Uwchlan Township in Pennsylvania.

Representative Gerlach met with the Berg family on Tuesday. "They got very insufficient information,'' he said. "They felt that they were not getting full answers."

Nick Berg's father, Michael Berg was publicly furious, "I think a lot of people are fed up with the lack of civil rights this thing has caused," he said. "I don't think this administration is committed to democracy."

The Berg's filed a lawsuit in federal court in Philadelphia on April 5. A day later, Nick Berg was released. He contacted his parents and told them that he was coming home. The following day he checked out of his hotel in Baghdad, and disappeared. (source:http://www.rense.com/general52/psyy.htm)

Posted by: WowWEE!! at May 15, 2004 10:16 PM

Gee, I wonder if we'll have to wait 40 years for the truth on Berg.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1217885,00.html

Posted by: Alxandro at May 15, 2004 10:22 PM

Alxandro,

The UFO's in Mexico, only seen by infrared technology, just goes to show u the weekness in humans when limited to sensing their surroundings with their natural senses.

Thank god for the human intellectual capacity to invent intruments that can pick up these otherwise non-existent phenomena. As cliche as it looks, what u sense is not all there is.

Posted by: WowWEE!! at May 15, 2004 10:26 PM

regarding question why the man with white hood hold his decapitated head when other man is cutting it - sounded strange to me but when seein few pics on drudge report i see that white hat man was standing on Nikcs back and holding his hair while other man cut - it seems prety logic/normal that maybe after the head was cut the other man took the head and showed it to camera...i have NOT seen the video though,i dont even want to see it..

Posted by: d at May 15, 2004 10:28 PM

Especially since over half of what our eyes see is filtered out before it reached the brain.

Posted by: Alxandro at May 15, 2004 10:29 PM

"There ought to be limits to freedom."

-- G.W. Bush

"The process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event -- like a new Pearl Harbor" (2000)

-- Project for a New American Century

"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."

-- David Rockefeller

"Terrorism is the best political weapon for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death."

-- Adolf Hitler

Posted by: Alxandro at May 15, 2004 10:30 PM

15 Anomalies Surrounding
Death Of Nick Berg

http://www.rense.com/general52/anom.htm

I love the net! Free flow of info @ its best. Freedom of information: beat your mouse off!!

Posted by: WowWEE!! at May 15, 2004 10:30 PM

really all you people are making matters worse! no 1 really knows what happen but the people who were there .. its sad that it happened but all this is really unecessary and some comments are hurting to people and u wonder why people do these kinds of things .. action-reaction .. remember that people

Posted by: no1knows at May 15, 2004 10:31 PM

really all you people are making matters worse! no 1 really knows what happen but the people who were there .. its sad that it happened but all this is really unecessary and some comments are hurting to people and u wonder why people do these kinds of things .. action-reaction .. remember that people

Posted by: no1knows at May 15, 2004 10:31 PM

really all you people are making matters worse! no 1 really knows what happen but the people who were there .. its sad that it happened but all this is really unecessary and some comments are hurting to people and u wonder why people do these kinds of things .. action-reaction .. remember that people

Posted by: no1knows at May 15, 2004 10:32 PM

http://www.salaamway.de/nonexoops/forums/index.php?s=ed400fc9e3c4473b7564657f20838d28&showtopic=107&st=0&#entry226

As we all know it is not allowed for male muslim to wear gold (jewellery, watches, and so on). But what about those materials which are even more worth than gold ? what about platinum and so on ? what about a silver ring with a diamond stone ? how it can be that 'only' gold is forbidden, while things more worthful are allowed...are they ?

It's obvious from this Arabic Muslim forum that muslim males are forbidden from wearing gold jewlery. Do we know Reader's ring wasn't brass? No. Bottom line the ring is weak evidence, but it is still evidence.

P.S.: There are many inconsistencies in the video, not simply two "scenes" or timelines as has been stated. What follows is a very brief summary of notable time frames in the video:

mark - timestamp

4:36 - 2:44:10 (Reader taking down)

4:38 - 13:45:48 (Reader cutting closeup)

4:43 - 13:45:52 (blurring - eight seconds after lost)

4:44 - 13:46:00 (Reader cutting - White Scarf holding)

5:16 - 13:46:32 (head, knife, Reader final cut - one minute fifteen seconds after lost)

5:18 - 13:47:47 (head, knife, pan up to White Scarf not Reader)

Posted by: Plautus Satire at May 15, 2004 10:33 PM

I don't know if anybody knows where to get a copy of this video for analysis, but I have a copy, and the source I got it from now has a sharply abbreviated version that eliminates key evidence. I can supply this video to people on a personal basis, email to arrange, if I get enough responses I can run a dedicated web server just for this file.

Posted by: Plautus Satire at May 15, 2004 10:36 PM

why isnt there blood in the film, and i didnt kow you could cut someones head off with a knife, that shit is fake.

Posted by: gig at May 15, 2004 10:39 PM

Hmmm: State has no records of Berg's firm

http://www.dailylocal.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11650247&BRD=1671&PAG=461&dept_id=17782&rfi=6

Posted by: WowWEE!! at May 15, 2004 10:39 PM

Please tell me this is a joke.....because I am laughing my ass off! For real people, can't we find something better to do with our time, or are we trying to rewrite Conspiracy Theory? Did you happen to notice the smokestacks in the distance? Geronimo......

Posted by: Astonished at May 15, 2004 10:41 PM

Some people like to think..

Posted by: mojo at May 15, 2004 10:45 PM

Astonished,

Will u speak for all of us & tell us what "is" better to do with our time? Give us your recipe for the good life!!
Oh, hey!! Come on...

Posted by: WowWEE!! at May 15, 2004 10:54 PM

"...One would think they would profess to the world like bin laden did..."

For one thing, the "confession video" of bin laden, released shortly after 9/11, is such an obvious hoax that anyone who still thinks that this person is Osama obviously needs a good pair of glasses. Also, I will find it, but I do recally that ONE DAY after 9/11, bin Laden was interviewed by some media figure and denied ANY AND ALL INVOLVEMENT in 9/11...he said he wasnt at all saddened by it, but that he himself had nothing to do with it...futhermore he states that it is not his practice to murder innocent men women and children, as it is against his belief system....only those who murder innocent men women and children are those to be murdered themselves (in his view)....so now you'll say Oh I guess you believe everything Osama says, or So you believe him over Bush?...yer god damn right i do....for one thing when a "terrorist" group commits an act, they will 99 percent of the time take direct credit for it....bin Laden completely denied any involvement...but of course those of us in america seem to have short attention spans and most of you probably never even read that article dated 9/12/01.

ALSO: REPLYING TO "M" it is QUITE curious that our posts were deleted....i have yet to hear an explanation for it, seeing as how what i was saying was far less offensive that the FOCK YOU's and the "you should all just go and mass suicide yourselves" type of posts....but thats ok....whoever is in charge of deleting the posts obviously has their own agenda.

Posted by: John Doe at May 15, 2004 10:55 PM

Astonished,
What would you suggest we do, watch CNN, Trump, American Idol, NBA Playoffs?
What is it you are afraid of?

Coincidentally enough, funny you mention Geronimo, who also was decapitated post mortem.

His skull now resides at Yale, it is used by members of the Skull and Bones secret society for rituals. Both Bush and Kerry are members.

How did Geronimo's skull end up in Yale?

Well, it was stolen by none other than Prescott Bush, W's dear old grand dad!!

Posted by: Alxandro at May 15, 2004 10:59 PM

u write'm Alxandro!
(smells like: "u tell'm Alxandro")

Posted by: WowWEE!! at May 15, 2004 11:03 PM

come on everyone...wake the fuck up! This is just one more small reminder that we have no business being in iraq in the first place. come on...really..what have we accomplished since we've been there. we're out there wasting a whole lot of fucken time and energy... for what??? they don't want us there...we don't want to be there. simple solution...get the fuck out! it's really not that hard to realize that we can't just go in there and change the way these people have lived for the past how ever many hundred years...i say we fix what we fucked up and bring everyone back home...safe. people are dying out there for no cause at all. it's all a bunch of pointless bullshit.

Posted by: crystal at May 15, 2004 11:04 PM

come on everyone...wake the fuck up! This is just one more small reminder that we have no business being in iraq in the first place. come on...really..what have we accomplished since we've been there. we're out there wasting a whole lot of fucken time and energy... for what??? they don't want us there...we don't want to be there. simple solution...get the fuck out! it's really not that hard to realize that we can't just go in there and change the way these people have lived for the past how ever many hundred years...i say we fix what we fucked up and bring everyone back home...safe. people are dying out there for no cause at all. it's all a bunch of pointless bullshit.

Posted by: crystal at May 15, 2004 11:04 PM

Any Arabs or Arab Americans in the house?

I have a question you guys can answer.

Posted by: Alxandro at May 15, 2004 11:08 PM

Hmmm...reason(s) for being in Iraq...
crystal, write to your congress(wo)man, assuming u live in the United (they) State(s) or assume.

Posted by: WowWEE!! at May 15, 2004 11:09 PM

Very interesting commentary, and BTW, why are about half of the posts from right-wingnuts? Do you guys really have the spare time, and dedication to surf for opposing viewpoints, and passionately respond to them, or just maybe you're on the U.S. gov. payroll? Or the GOP, or the BFEE, which has all become the same in the last 4 years. I know, personally, that the few times I've looked at YOUR wingnut websites, they actively discourage any dissent. And they make me puke, so I really don't hang around and write long posts. Well, hang around, you might learn something. But don't think for a minute we'll buy the Bush bullshit.

Posted by: MC at May 15, 2004 11:11 PM

Ooopps! Forgot the "" for United...thus "United"

Posted by: WowWEE!! at May 15, 2004 11:12 PM

BTW

Special Announcement
Record Month for Conspiracies and Cover Ups on AboveTopSecret.com
SWINDON, UK - April 29, 2004 - The Internet's largest and most popular community dedicated to the discussion of conspiracies, cover ups, scandals and other "alternative topics" has experienced a new milestone. The core domain, AboveTopSecret.com, has experienced record-breaking traffic and staggering growth during the month of April, as well as through the previous six months.

Posted by: Alxandro at May 15, 2004 11:12 PM

There is simply more info not being told. Lets get real, Berg looking for work, all by himself, in the middle of a
war. How did he get there? Did he take Delta airlines to Bagdad? What did he drive?
Did he go to Hertz and rent a truck? What about his tower building tools and equipment?
did he bring those with him or rent them at the local u-rent-it?
The reason for his existience there does not make sense.

Posted by: trap at May 15, 2004 11:12 PM

So who is the third candidate anyway?

Posted by: Alxandro at May 15, 2004 11:17 PM

MC,
I don't live in the US. I'm also not a right, left or center-wingnut. But thanks for your inductive leap.

Posted by: WowWEE!! at May 15, 2004 11:19 PM

Fact is, reading too much into tiny details can be just as detrimental as not paying any attention to the details at all. Some are important, such as why he was in US custody for so long, why the US insists that the message read said something about al quada, it didnt, i did hear a reference to 'al quad' which refers to "someone who sits and does nothing", sure maybe it was a simple mistake on the part of the translators....yeah right....also the biggest question of all is, who benefits the most from all these things happening from 9/11 to present day....certainly not the so called "terrorists"....the only possible thing they might be gaining is getting themselves blown in half by bombs and machine gun fire....someone said to me the other day that "Bush has crippled the Taliban, and crushed Al Quaeda"...when the fact is, Bush alone has done more to BREED thousands upon thousands of future REAL terrorists by all his retarded actions.

Posted by: John Doe at May 15, 2004 11:29 PM

Marc, good job - as a physician, three issues struck me the day I saw it on CNN. First, the utter calmness of Berg seemed to portray he knew these people, acting out a theatrical enterprise, NOT a threatening environment resulting in his impending demise. Second, his beheading was clumsy, there was no arterial blood flow when the carotid and verterbral arteries were cut - he was already dead when they cut his head off. Third, the supposed terrorists looked like obese light-skinned Americans, NOT arab descent in any way - their mannerisms, their speech was clearly not consistent with Arabic, rather their "god is great" was americanized, as if it were a cheer at a football game. Coupled with your insightful comments, we need to demand answers... and let's not forget Berg's connection to the 9-11 terrorists - when you put all this into the mix - something is very suspicious... and truly frightening, which I suspect is true... It's time to demand answers... The cost of silence is too expensive...

Posted by: Craig at May 15, 2004 11:37 PM

Why is the first masked wonder assuming the military position of "parade rest"?

Posted by: Alxandro at May 15, 2004 11:49 PM

For the record, in Islamic law, gold is forbidden for males to wear it, but it is ok for females.

Posted by: Ali at May 15, 2004 11:58 PM

To "TO TAM": If Nick Berg were already dead at the time of his beheading, there would not be the type of bleeding you would see from a live beheading since blood pressure would be non-existent.
Although only those individuals present at the time know for certain, it isn't beyond the realm of possibility for Nick Berg's murderers have killed him and beheaded him afterwards. It would explain the discrepancies in the tape's time stamp and Nick Berg's supposed lack of a struggle.

brian: Your explanation would make sense if the time stamp difference occurred just once, but it doesn't. The time stamp seen on the video jumps back and forth several times.

Rob M.: Although I am not disputing that the hotel worker said what he/she said, I can't help wonder how truthful this person was being. It is illegal for alcohol to be sold in the middle east since it goes against Islamic law. I know that doesn't mean it doesn't exist there, but it makes you wonder how a foreigner would be able to make regular purchases of a forbidden item if the comment were really true. (I tend to think some misinterpretation was made somewhere.)

overwhelmed: I agree with your statement that there is something "just a little off" about the whole video.

Hklasvdvlias: Comparing RGB values will not prove anything. Different cameras can capture the same image with differing colours. Sometimes the difference is subtle, other times the difference is not. Either way, it's not a valid method to determine if the place Nick Berg was beheaded was Abu Ghraib.

R. Ricjards: I agree.

To "to r ricjards": If you realize someone is trying to kill you, tied down and sat upon or not, you would have an adrenaline surge to fight and thereby provide a struggle.

teedoff: Your theory is stretching it too far. Beard growth doesn't equate to being a terrorist. Besides, as I mentioned before, my first thought was that he looked Amish with that beard style. I know I'm not the only one to think so.

Alxandro: Since you mentioned some quotes, here is another one for you.

"A leader who doesn’t hesitate before he sends his nation into battle is not fit to be a leader." - Golda Meir 1967

Posted by: amorphous cloud at May 16, 2004 12:02 AM

Hey Ali, got a question for you.
Is it true Arabs wipe with their left hands and reserve the use of the right hand for serving food, eating and shaking hands?

Posted by: Alxandro at May 16, 2004 12:02 AM

This comment relates to Nick and being so calm. If you could, or want to, listen to his voice, especially how he states 'Philadelphia'. Cheery, eh? Now think...the forty second audio/video gap. Could Berg have said something or asked "what the hell are you doing to me, guys, this wasn't part of the [high pitch scream of SURPRISE and horror even a tenor voice will make in that situation...or could he]"?

Jewish rabbis (forgive the mispelling) has beards similar to what Nick has.

Another thing, true, not Kill Bill style blood spray, but holding the head, blood drip was visible. Possible blood drain before last time cutscene? Otherwise, one man holding down a body going through a shock like that is not possible. That's where the phrase "...running like a chcken with it's head chopped off" comes into play.

I've only seen the video twice, the second being closer observation. He's gone from this world no mistake. R.I.P, Nick, justice will prevail...that or vengeance. They screwed you and your family, and the many of us I'm sure.

Marc, the orange suit is very interesting.

Posted by: HDawgf at May 16, 2004 12:10 AM

WowWEE!! I was not writing to you, and that you responded to me personally was paranoid. Reading your previous posts shows that you are weird and you should go away. This is not about a little tit for tat and I give credit and respect to those who are building a coherent body of reason on a topic.

Posted by: MC at May 16, 2004 12:11 AM

Alxandro: I tried looking that up and discovered a site that also stated the "thumbs up" is considered the equivalent of the middle finger in the Middle East. Interesting considering so many "thumbs up" were seen in the Abu Ghraib photos.

Posted by: amorphous cloud at May 16, 2004 12:14 AM

One more quote:

"In politics, nothing happens by accident.
If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way."
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt

Posted by: Alxandro at May 16, 2004 12:15 AM

every one has lost sight of the tragedy itself. this is a game humans play and sometimes people laugh at funerals. arguing to give purpose, fighting to hold on, fear of being a following fool, a natural distrust borne of events unrelated to the issue at hand. pointless - - - let not nick berg's death be for naught. Remember him as we remember the victims of 9/11. No one of you were there could say for truth the state of his mind, nor the events between the time jump -- obviously two tapes? -- but blood WAS there and was not intended to give spook house affects. A man is dead who ought not to be. A family mourns. Know your enemy -- it isn't the government in this instance -- it's those who fight against us, no matter whether our being there is right or wrong. Know your enemy -- this deed they would do -- wannabe al-quida? who bloody cares? they are in every ounce of their being terrorists - the enemy is raised against us from the moment they come from the womb. And this war cannot be won -- it's the same old song and dance. Peace was never intended to reign there.

Posted by: it's only me at May 16, 2004 12:32 AM

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/05/15/Worldandnation/A_jolting_awareness_t.shtml

Posted by: amorphous cloud at May 16, 2004 12:35 AM

Right. The entire idea that the CIA doesn't make mistakes is absurd. While this seems a little far fetched at times, the CIA is certainly capable of mistakes. Look up COINTELPRO if you want to see CIA mistakes.

Jackasses.

Posted by: Phil at May 16, 2004 12:46 AM

too chicken to watch videos or even look at photos from abu gharib, i wonder if anyone else could tell me --

1) how do the body types of the 'executioners' compare with the body types of the people who were in the 'abusive' photos: england, her lover, et al? and

2) anyone have a clue about the nature of the videos that are too horrible for the administration to release? could this have been one of them? could that be why nick thought he was among friends? play acting?

3) if the FBI performs the autopsy, do you think we'll ever know what really happened? or will it be another jfk black shoe polish on back of head job?

4) i wonder how long ago nick berg was killed. a real autopsy would be able to tell, right?

5) was his hair at the time of his trip to iraq long enough for the 'executioners' to be able to grab it? the photo i saw had very very short hair.

"The civilized man has a moral obligation to be skeptical, to demand the credentials of all statements that claim to be facts."
-- Bergan Evans (1904-1978) Source: The Natural History of Nonsense, 1946

"In all affairs it’s a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted."
-- Bertrand Russell (1872-1970) Philosopher, educator

"What are the moral convictions most fondly held by barbarous and semi-barbarous people? They are the convictions that authority is the soundest basis of belief; that merit attaches to readiness to believe; that the doubting disposition is a bad one, and skepticism is a sin." -- Thomas Henry Huxley (1825-1895)

Posted by: curious at May 16, 2004 12:46 AM

Blind patriotism is the most dangerous thing on the planet.

"God bless america support our troops!"

"All you un-american bastards should go to hell!"

Just lovely. Really showing off the American way...

I personally wouldn't support troops that rape children and torture prisoners of war, and I refuse to respect any country who'se government is so blatantly christian. Religion and politics should not mix, but unfortunately, they often do.

Ever notice how every US president has been a white christian man?

Posted by: Gramage at May 16, 2004 12:53 AM

Fodder for the conspiracy theorists out there.

http://www.spinelessbooks.com/bookviews/HatfieldJ_FS.html

Still, it does give one pause for thought.

Posted by: amorphous cloud at May 16, 2004 01:15 AM

Please forget the damn chair. Please forget the damn chair. Don't obsess on it, don't make it your mantra .. Millions of chairs.. I have one..or 3.. or 10.. refutes any evidence.. Right or wrong, it was PART of an argument. There was something fishy about the whole thing, and it should be analysed, because it smells. It really smells. LOOK AT IT ALL. There's a lot a' smoke, and maybe, among allthathellofalotofsmoke is, sadly, we have a bunch of criminals that have taken over our government. We patriots need to retake from the neo-cons and repugs. Please vote.

Posted by: MC at May 16, 2004 01:28 AM

its all a cover-up to hide the mistakes they made.

Nick Berg worked for Bush in his Election campaign on the soundsystems.... do you all remember the fuck up of Bush telling what n asshole his rival is while the mic is open?
great excuse for the Bush admin to send Nick Berg undercover to Iraq to make up for that mistake with the mic
they tell him he`s a contractor and fill in some more details before he goes to Iraq
(first you work on the soundsystem and then you suddenly are a contractor???) Nick probably had to report the stuff he saw behind the backs of the officialls who are there to find WMD`s, somehow the Iraqi police found out and before they could get any out of him the us army took him in costedy . they kept him on the background just to be sure.
on the moment that Bush declared he would be leaving Iraq on the date they agreed,
Nick Berg's role was clear, he was about to be the star in a "hostage propaganda"film. thats what they told him , Nick has nothing to do with this, he was on the wrong place at the wrong time! the US goverment used him as they used others for their sceems and trickery. Look at the murder of JFK, they got away with it!
in my country they shot a politician a few years ago, WE HAVE THE KILLER IMPRISSONED. so why can someone not find the killers?
because they are the killers themselfs

Posted by: US kills at May 16, 2004 01:36 AM

I watched the tape. I forced myself to, and a couple of things in it struck me as strange.

Although I did not pick up on the executioners physiques, the body armor, the orange prison garb on Berg, the Walmart lawn chair, or the bad Arabic (since I don't speak it, I couldn't tell the difference - actually I wouldn't know if it was Arabic or some other language from the area); I did find a few things very strange.

(1) Berg seemed completely calm in the situation.
Contrast his demeanor with that of the prisoners abused by US troops, with dogs on them. They were shaking and hysterical. Why was Berg so calm. Did he not think he was about to be executed? Was he drugged first?

(2) Just prior to seeing the actual beheading, the video blurs out. You see nothing but an orange blur, and hear terrifying screams (which seem to also last way too long for someone whose throat is being cut, once the windpipe is severed there should be NO sound).

(3) Where is all the blood gushing out? There should be an incredible amount of blood, yet there is what appears to be coagulation way too soon.

So, Is Berg really dead? What was returned for the family to bury was a headless corpse. Was there a positive identification made through either fingerprints or DNA?

Was this staged using "Hollywood" special effects?

It also seemed way too convenient how this happened at the height of last weeks Senate inquiries, as an attempt to deflect attention from that. Wouldn't terrorists be glad that the American public was reacting badly to the way the US effort was being conducted and KNOW that this would be to their advantage. Why would they do something that would specifically raise anger towards THEM and deflect the anger from

Posted by: zevei at May 16, 2004 02:18 AM

After reading the background of Berg and his family, his e-mails FBI comments and consulate messages, I have come to the following conclusions about Nicholas Berg's mission in Iraq.

1. Nicholas Berg was a "wannabe CIA agent", heavily influenced by his father's anti-war opinions and facinated by "cloak and dagger" stories of spy intrigue. His friend described him as a "risk-taker".

2. Working on a tower provided a legitimate view not normally available to others and he dreamed up an idea to do some freelance, "good deed" investigating in Iraq and possibly sell information to the CIA, Coalition Provincial Authority, or to others. (Records show only one tower project, painted for a radio station in PA.

3. His "company" name, Prometheus Methods Tower Service, was derived from the Prometheus of Greek mythology, "the friend and benefactor of humanity". (No company records exist.)

4. Traveled Iraq as a businessman, wearing a sleeveless Tee shirt and ripped jeans, but unable to speak the language, "Another thing that's tough for me is the language. So as much as I know the right words and can understand some of them being spoken, I can't say them worth a damn to the fellow who doesn't understand English"

5. "Inspected" a tower in Sinjar,Iraq, after dark and without invitation, agreement or permission. "It's dark and I can barely make out the tower. But I found it and learned what I needed to know. And again, without authorization or permission: "The worst site I have been on was the Abu Gharib I tower, a 320 meter (1040') guyed tower in the main broadcast complex for Baghdad, near the Abu Gharib political prisons...."

6. Arrested by Iraq Police in Mosul
for "suspicious activities", carrying communications equipment and his passport bearing his Jewish name and an Israeli stamp.

7. Held for 13 days during which he was visited and questioned three times by FBI. FBI offered to fly Berg out of the country, "Once he is released by the Iraqi authorities".

8. No record of any real or potential clients, contacs, and no name or record of the man he intended to hire, "a very competent and fairly reliable commercial manager" who had been "living in Philadelphia for the last twenty years and just came back.."

Conclusion: Berg may have tried to sell the usless information gathered in various cities, to American authorities and was rebuffed. FBI saw the danger of his activities and wanted him out of Iraq. May have contacted an Iraqi organization as a "humanatarian" and "businessman", and agreed to pose as an American hostage sentenced to execution to gain publicity. The entire adventure-engaging in suspicious activities and carrying questionable documents-may have been staged to cause his arrest and create publicity for his father's zealous anti-war and anti-administration activities. The plan probably went sour when the ad hoc "kidnap" group became suspicious of his documents and contacts.

Posted by: Jim at May 16, 2004 02:20 AM

Plautus Satire, let us know where you put that file.what evidence?

Posted by: f at May 16, 2004 02:22 AM

If you WATCH CLOSELY, and focus on the time stamp itself, you see a quick transfer at 13:46:23 to 13:46:24, a normal second then ticks by.

Then the seconds quickly speed by through 13:46:25, 26, & 27.

It after this quick jump in numbers that a that a new clip of video is blended. The killers are in different positions but it is still the guy in the black ski mask with the knife cutting. This only lasts for 6 seconds, ending at 13:46:33.

The time stamp immediately jumps to 13:47:46 (1 minute and 13 seconds later), in which the man with the white scarf is now in control and the beheading is done.

Something else that has perplexed alot of people is that there is an obvious delay in the audio. At 2:42:33 we see the leader in the black ski mask put his hand to his mouth as if he were coughing. We don't actually hear this cough until 2:42:39. So, a 6 second delay is present.

I know in American culture, it is a reflex to bring your hand to your mouth (with proper training in manners) when coughing. So the guy in the ski mask had this mannerism imbedded. Does any middle eastern country promote this mannerism as well? I tend to think not, but i'm not familiar with their customs.

Also, when the chaos in the audio starts, it sounds like Nick possibly said "let go, Let gooooo!". That makes me think he knew his captors spoke and understood english.

There is an english speaking voice at the end of the audio, it does sound like "Thy will be done" or something very similar.

The men on each end are very white looking and they both have the most amount of their face showing throughout the video. They don't look middle eastern to me.

The chair. *sigh* I think all the comments directed at how common it is and how "You may have did it because you have one!", are out right degrading. The front of the chair in which lyddie is sitting in does feature an embedded design. Look closely or use an inverting photo program. The chair Nick is sitting in faintly seems to bear the same, but i can't say for sure. The one Lyddie is sitting in looks like it might be scratched or marred on the bend of the arms.

Wouldn't it be something if we could find those same markings on the Nick Berg "chair"? I'm sure it's possible to check.

Posted by: Coach at May 16, 2004 02:24 AM

Forget the chair. What is IT that these solders in the picture are standing around, and seem discussing? It seems to me like a carpet that has something inside it (cold be a body). It looks like the same carpet that Berg is sitting on before his execution.

Posted by: Ahmad at May 16, 2004 02:27 AM

Forget the chair. What is IT that these solders in the picture are standing around, and seem discussing? It seems to me like a carpet that has something inside it (coulld be a body). It looks like the same carpet that Berg is sitting on before his execution.

Posted by: Ahamd at May 16, 2004 02:34 AM

The CIA has got all of you running round in circles making up conspiracy theories about who did what and why they did it.

At the end of the day

1) Nick Berg (I pray he gained salvation in God before he died) was killed.
2) He was dead (or drained of most of his blood and/or drugged) before his head was cut off

As for the rest of the so called conspirator evidence, you will have to ignore it and move on.

What the CIA want is for you to concentrate on something out of your pehipheral vision while they are attacking something out of site. You are looking where you are told to look. Think outside of the box, and look what is really going on.

Leave Nick Berg alone, yes it is a terrible terrible think that has happened, he deserves rest now. God will deal with all concerned, it is not up to us to be the judge.

Please, please do not fall victim to the 'planted' conspiracy it is not important right now. What is important is looking at what is happening in Israel and Jerusalem.

Posted by: Jabez at May 16, 2004 02:44 AM

Also the CIA are NOT interested in every single person posting information that could publically damn them. If that was the case I would have been interviewed over 100 times by now by them. They are not interested in me, even though I have enough information and solid evidence to proove that they are behind a nice handful of so called conspiracy theories. Theyve left me alone, so Ive learnt to leave them alone. Quid Pro Quo

Posted by: Jabez at May 16, 2004 02:49 AM

Without examining the photographs people have been discussing the killing from the perspective that the killers were other than terrorists.

While terrorists need war to remain in power, the revelations of torture hurt this country's reputation and standing badly. The press was negative, and the tide was turning. The U.S. was losing the war of words, and the war for the hearts and minds. Whose evil and devious little mind are we dealing with here?

This administration needed another cataclysmic event to galvanize the American people against the Arab world, a brutal slaying by "terrorists" in public of an American civilian was powerful enough to make the world try to put torture in perspective with Berg's killing.

Which motive is greater? Would the terrorists do something that would deeply damage their position when they were winning the war of words with our disgrace? Or would a dramatic killing take the pressure off of the U.S.?

There is also a much darker more desperate motive; to prevent impeachment and trials for war crimes.

I pray to god that it doesn't go that far.

Nick Berg's father's name was on a "hit list" on a web site named FreeRepublic.com, (a cheap-labor conservative web site,) known for its pro-war stand, Republicanism, and right-wing agenda.

Among a list of names acquired by the web site were those of people who joined or supported a peace organization named A.N.S.W.E.R.. Before the list of names a statement on the site read, "Here's the enemy Freepers...."

Posted by: suspicious behavior at May 16, 2004 03:06 AM

This is my last post here.

Who was behind 9/11 ?
Why did the USA attack Iraq, WMD? 9/11?
Who killed Nick Berg?

Propaganda on every news station, every newspaper, the internet. It is spreading like wildfire. Of course, then Pentagon via the CIA is scaring you into thinking Islam is behind it all. (chuckles) They are "creating" a war, they are "creating" terrorism. Who trained the Islamic warriors? Who funded them initially?

Let me give you a twist.

If the CIA backed Bin Laden, funded the militants. They have a form of "control". Now Let us call the USA side A, and Islam side B. Now we all know the CIA control both A and B. They can "create" a distraction, such as 9/11 and blame it on B. Now both A and B are against each other, controlled by the same hand.

It is ALL one big mother of a distraction, and you guys are caught up slap bang in the middle. You are being used to create conspiracy theories, you are getting more and more confused by piecing together false information. Time to expand your vision, stop looking at what is close up and look at the big picture.

Ive bored you enough now, most of you may well laugh and mock me. I do not care, I do not judge, God judges. Im merely pointing out what I know based on the facts that I have personally experienced.

Posted by: Jabez at May 16, 2004 03:12 AM

Marc Perkel's site is a nust see for everyone.
His analysis on Berg's alleged beheading is marvellous.
It proved an "American" hand behind the killing.

Posted by: Mohammad Basirul Haq Sinha at May 16, 2004 04:05 AM

Well there is no doubt that this video is made by the people who killed N.Berg and there is no question about it, think a little bit, around the 24 th of april ws also heard that the prison of Abu gharib was attacked with more than 30 propeled rockets, and guess what, all and every one hesrd that it was a resistance or a terrorist operation, now the theory is one thing, the worls is theatre, where each one try to improvise his role, so do you think that you have to talk about N Berg when it's abvious that was killed because he know too much about what was hapening and what happen to him, the guy looked like he was detined in concentration camp for a while, I guess the poor guy went to Iraq went to Irak for a diet, common the person in thid picture was emprisonned for a while in abu gharib tortured like the rest he was there to for diffrent reason his familly know, if really this guy was him than this asarkawi lives just beside the american headquarters, because guess what it was not hard to find his corps, it's sadistic, and you people do yo still believe that our goverment has any respect for our opinion or our freedom to know the truth, no way just try to find the murdrer of JFK,
we are too good consumer of fiction holywood... movies, forgert it the world dicoverd the real face of our system who sells weapon to it's people to kill each other, I guess all of us forgot our orgins that all of us come from the same couple, do we have the right to fake it and say we are in war for the freedom than we shoul make this show to china who have weapon of mass destruction and don't give a damn about human rights, we american we trust in god that we are cowered and insgnificant, all the world loved us athrough the our movies but this is finish, the real movie is hapening now, covering always with alcaida start to flicker and loose it's sense, if you killed and resurect the same azrarkawi, you're telling me he is a zombie, that the CIA is incapable to arrest a zombie who happen to be just on the near,a person who just killed more than one time, if they can't get this one, how our goverment can pretend that he is going to arrest osma, lies don't have legs and we american are keeping dreaming, that we know what's freedom when segregation is fact of every day.
keep dreaming and good night America we just entered any an era where god is mad at us this all, and may be the next earthkick yes kick it will be one and it's so close youcan't beleive it , are we going to blame it on alcaid.
we shall prevail just one thing, hummanity and respect for others

geoquest.....

Posted by: James at May 16, 2004 04:28 AM

• when you cut someone's head off blood can spray up to 10 feet.

• he had done work at the infamous Abu Ghraib prison.

• Right when Bush's bacon needs to be pulled out of the fire this video magically pops up

• video could have been done by the same military theater company that plants fake letters from troops in papers and consults Jerry Bruckheimer, the famous director on how to stage the rescue of Jessica Lynch (a rescue story that she called a fable).

• Al-Zarqawi, who they say cut Berg's head off was reported in the March 4, 2004 MSNBC to be killed in a bombing raid in Mosul in Northern Iraq.

• A faint Western voice can be heard twice in the final seconds of the infamous videotape of the beheading of Nick Berg. The voice may be saying "Thy Will Be Done."

• "Arabs" have lily-white hands and (other exposed) skin

• Berg's severed head, the floor, Berg's clothes, and even the hand of the "Arab" who decapitated Berg had no visible blood on it.

• Berg's body didn't move while on the ground. Although held down, Berg would have tried to instinctively wiggle and writhe away from captor's grip.

• Alleged "scream" from Berg sounded to be that of a woman and was clearly dubbed in

I think the lack of blood in the video could have been because the man beheaded was already dead.

Posted by: Wouldn't put it past them at May 16, 2004 05:21 AM

Alright, I didn't read all posts...not even half of them. I was too lazy, but more importantly, I got so angry over one post that I had to answer immediately.

First of all, I'm not from the USA, I'm from Germany, but that's really besides the point.

Then, I found this post, which made me really angry:
~~~~~~~~~~
It's really sad that we've become a people that think we know all the answers and second guess everyone. Leave the Armed Forces alone and let them do their job. My son's over there and I wish all you people with nothing else to do would get behind our government instead making our Nation look bad with all your bitching. It'd be pretty darn hard for anyone to fight for freedom knowing the people the're fighting for are so completely stupid and uncaring. Do something good or shut the hell up!
~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm sorry, but WE are making your country look bad with all the bitching??? Where the hell have you been when all those pics about all the torturing were published??? WE DON'T MAKE YOUR COUNTRY LOOK BAD...YOU MANAGE TO DO THAT JUST FINE BY YOURSELF!!!!
You really expect people to stand behind the government even if they let something like that happen? They can say that they didn't know all they want, but that just proves my point that your government can't handle a situation like this one. They lost control a long time ago...they're just too stubborn to admit it!

Alright, I'm getting carried away, so back to the topic.
I know it may be a lot to process, but why the hell is everybody so sure, that something like this isn't possible at all? Why not? It could be true. I mean, after everything that has happened in the last...I don't know...maybe 2000 years, do you really expect that something like this isn't possible?
I guess you've never heard the proverb "Everything is allowed when it comes to WAR or love" or something like this (I don't remember the exact wording).

Just think about it this way for once: When all those pics about torturing Iraqis were published, maybe the CIA or someone else thought that many people were shocked and furious with your government, so they decided to distract everybody with something so cruel and vicious like the murder of Nick Berg...I'm sorry, but to me it just doesn't sound so unbelievable...I'm not even saying that any other country in a situation the USA right now wouldn't have done something like that...it's in our nature to avoid taking the consequences of our actions!!!!!

Posted by: why not? at May 16, 2004 05:23 AM

The CIA did it poorly in Dallas and it seems others could still do it poorly here too. The timing is too suspicious to be ignored and there are too many inconsistencies in the tape. Comparing this to the Daniel Pearl murder shows too many differences...

Posted by: InterestedIn Truth at May 16, 2004 05:29 AM

Do you know the difference between to, too and two? I thought not!

Posted by: margie at May 16, 2004 05:51 AM

Calling Doctor MC eeee!!

Earlier u stated that:

"WowWEE!!...Reading your previous posts shows that you are weird and you should go away...I give credit and respect to those who are building a coherent body of reason on a topic."

Your statement suggesting that "I'm weird" demonstrates that u r in fact building a coherent body of reason on a topic." My apologies, Rembrandt... for u paint such an accurate picture of reasoning & intelligence. U should work for the FBI or the CIA for u would put the word "intelligence" back into the US intelligence community

Posted by: WowWEE!! at May 16, 2004 05:51 AM

Yeah, maybe the plastic chair is bought in a iraqi-kind wallmart, but it's very strange, that they use the same chair.
Secondly, it's strange, that Nick, or the dummy (which could have been used) isn't fighting against his beheading. Yeah it seems that he's screaming: Nooo! For several times but c'mon, if someone's pulling me at the ground by holding my hair and another guy behind me holds a fucking sword of a knife in his hand, i would be fighting like hell.
I think it's a dummy that's being beheaded:
1. he's not fighting
2. the clock jumps
3. there's no blood running out of the head
Well, what do you think?

Posted by: blueFOX at May 16, 2004 06:47 AM

All of us have vented out many frustrations concerning our government and it is very understandable. A lot of us have wandred from the main topic, and so have I. I guess due to some of the narrow minded "Love It or Leave It" people. they get my goat too but, they will be around for sometime. My grandfather asked me something when I was about 6 :"Who is the fool? The fool or the person that argues with the fool?" Interesting question I believe that all of us can gain from. Back to our main topic. Nick Berg has brought up many questions about himself. Just the person's motives, affiliations, acquaitances, religious background (in the terms of why he was in such a country on his own), who his siter was marrie to, the little work he did in Iraq and where he did it, 911 interogation by FBI, 3 interogations by FBI in Iraq, imprisonment in Iraq, the company he supposedly worked for that is not registered, immediate burial and no ferensics, and I'm sure many other things about him that I'm leaving out or will come up in the future. Just Nick Berg himself brings many unanswered questions in itself. The Tape, fake or not, possible or not, CIA of terrorists, blood no blood, two men cutting, video quality, time lapse, poor arabic pronunciation, attire of killers, etc., etc., etc.. It soesn't take a genious to figure out the obvious. This is quite a dubious event to digest as a given fact. Just the idea that many people have many questions they want answered (like 911) leads most intelligent people to feel/surmise that something just doesn't seem right. THAT MY DEAR PEOPLE ARE THE PREREQUISITES OF A CONSPIRACY - FROM THE WORD TO CONSPIRE. One thing that really gets me boiling are all these fools that still exists and think that our government has never and can never participate in such a thing. I'm not assuming they are at the moment, however you have to be a complete illeterate and asshole to believe our government has never created conspiracies in the past as it is proven world wide in the present moment that the Iraq war is a CONSPIRANCY!! You got to be an irresponsible selfish son of a bitch to continue to beleive that our government is above such things. People that belive this are the morons that get other innocent people killed!!!I will not sacrifice my sons for you FUCKING IGNORANT PRICKS BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU ARE BETTER THAN EVERY OTHER COUNTRY ON THE PLANET. I'M SICK OF YOU FLAG WAVING FUCK HEADS THAT CAN ONLY THINK OF KILL,KILL,KILL,KILL, AND KILL MORE. HAVE YOU NO CONSCIOUS? READ HISTORY, RESEARCH, EDUCATE YOURSELF AND STOP FUCKING OVER YOUR BROTHERS AND SITERS! I'M TIRED OF IT. EAT SHIT AND DIE! SORRY FOLKS, I'M SORRY FOR BLOWING MY FUSE. I APPOLOGIZE TO ALL BUT, WHEN MY LIFE AND THE LIFE OF MY FAMILY IS IN THE HANDS OF STUBORN IDIOTS I CAN ONLY REACT INSTICTUALLY. i APOLOGIZE AGAIN FOR MY BAD MANNERS.

Posted by: Vinnie at May 16, 2004 07:22 AM

i have the video of the beheading from the moment the man in black pulls out the knife and grabs nics hair and throws him to the ground
where caN i find the begining where nic talks where the "terrorist" reads his statement, can anyone tell me

Posted by: need more info at May 16, 2004 07:48 AM

Terorism: the use of terror and intimidation to gain one's political objectives. (Webster, College Dictionary 3rd Edition)

If anyone actually died here I am truely sympathetic toward the family or manufacture.

The thing we need to ask ourselves is this: "What is there to and who gains from this scenerio?"

We have been told in round about ways that terorism would spread to the internet, well folks here it is. Our own natural curiosity will spread all the emotions around the world, that depending on your point of view will enrage you or give you a great sence of hope and pride.

What needs to be understood ultimately is that this is a situation that can not be won, controlled, and being how large it is even suppressed.

Governmental Terrorist have always existed, in some ways needed. Civilian terrorist have always existed and the governmental ones have been charge with the suppression of same for all nations. Doing this takes time and money. Conquer by dividing and taking their financial banking away.

Though out time we have had rogue governmental leaders believe that taking over the world was the right thing to do. The world has come together and suppressed those rogues.

This is not the same, this is not convential, this is the world of special operations, clock and daggers, smoke and mirror. This my friends are the events that have been taking place just under our noses all our lives and could see it. We were not supposed to ever see it.

The terroristic plan at hand in my opinion is one of taking the blinders off. We are going to see things that most have never seen before, some of us will even experienced horrible things and have horrible, terrible thoughts and commit actions that are inhuman by normal standards of Humanity.

The only way to win is to not play the game. Understand that these types of power moves and political actions and religious beliefs have existed and have taken place long before you were born and will continue long after you are dead.

Don't be a pawn.

Thank you for this space in your life.

Wray

Posted by: Wray at May 16, 2004 07:48 AM

The lack of blood clarly indicates the scene was staged. The obvious explanation is he had been killed several hours or a day earlier by other means (perhaps shot) and beheading him for effect on camera was an after thought. Who did the beheading remains a question.

Posted by: michael at May 16, 2004 07:49 AM

nic berg was alive as he was beheaded when the terrorist grabs his hair nic clearly reacts, also u see him moving around bending at the torsoe several times during his execution. i would imagine someone getting their head hacked off in such a way would slip into shock relatively quickly and their movement would stop.As to why nic appeared calm before his execution, he was probably captive for almost a month he may have been getting quite comfortable with his abductors it looks too me like he was clean well fed i dont think nic realized he was about to be killed.

Posted by: watchthevideoagainmichael at May 16, 2004 08:08 AM

wheres the video????????????????

Posted by: wheres the video at May 16, 2004 08:11 AM

Has anyone noticed the terrorist reading is flipping the pages from right to left as we normaly do. Persian and Arabic script flows from right to left so the pages should be flipped from left to right [like you are reading a book from the back cover first]

Posted by: King at May 16, 2004 08:18 AM

I went back and carefully examined what page he was reading. Time markers are from the consumptionjunction video. Unlike the audio where there is no mistakes, there is some definite fumbling with the pages. He does read them in order though.
Begin by labeling the pages 1(front of 1st sheet) 2(back) 3(front of 2nd sheet) 4(back).
He reads 1, flip it then reads 2. (2:46) Puts 2 and 3 together, flips to 4, flips to 1, puts 4 and 1 together, flips 1 over, looks at 2, then begins to read the page underneath it WHICH IS 4! Reads for a little bit, scratches nose and realizes something is wrong and flips it to 3 (3:09). He finishes and flips it back to 4.

About the time sequences, it really seems as though there are two cameras because even though the hours dont match up, the minutes are fairly close. For example, he's holding the head up with the 13h marker and then it switches to the 2:46:20 marker, but at 13:46:20 his head was being severed. Also, in the beginning, when he is giving his name, etc. the time switches at that point also. Since the video was clearly edited, it seems likely two separate films were spliced together. Possibly one civilian and one military camera?

Posted by: ... at May 16, 2004 08:22 AM

1st. Ive seen a ton of Iraq war footage and pics. And let me say those plastic chairs line the walkways and back yard areas of a lot of Iraq homes and bussiness. fuck i have 4 of them.

2nd. The orange prison garb could have just been a statement. I think it was personaly.

3rd. Im not 100% sure on this but the prison you clame was used for this CIA beheading was built by iraq. Go to any jail or prison in AMERICA OR IN MOST COUNTRIES AND YOULL SEE THE SAME COLOR WALLS AND BASEBOARDS. along with a billion other things thats simular...WHY.... because often they are built by the same contractors...a prison isnt a buliding you spend a lot of money on or get creative with.the design is pretty much set for all them. the paint color is most times the cheepest avb. or searves some kind of mental effect. the same way restraunts use colors that create appatight.

4th fat iraqie man..................so fuckin what. ive seen a million of them.

some points are valid but im afraid theirs none youve offered that cant be struck down easily by my none spellin ass. Im not sayin its not true it probley is.cause ive seen the video and theirs just something not right about it. cant exsplaine what it is it just looks .....fake.. but if it is it can be proven with voice regention programs and super close up zoom and clearing programs. and a frame by frame review by people a billion times smarter than me.

good read though. i just find the reasons you stated to be weak beyond belife. and easliy washed away.

Posted by: red at May 16, 2004 08:24 AM

1. There were 2 cameras, so what?
2. Blood or no blood, the man is dead. His body was found with no head.
Who really did this is the question.

Posted by: Pissed off at May 16, 2004 08:55 AM

the end of the video where the sicko with the white scarf holds up mr bergs head looks hollywoodish too me like a b movie or something

Posted by: whatdouguysthink at May 16, 2004 08:59 AM

Come on people.. look at the the inconsistancies in this whole Berg issue. 1. That is not Berg!... and if it is there was much makeup used. Look at the face the shape of his head,and the hair!..it looks like a wig!..These masked men have enough inconsistance in there garb and dialog to make a bad "B" movie on late night
T.V...2. The actual beheading was a morphed picture of an actual slaughter of an animal edited and morphed onto this so called Berg character. As far as we know!.. Berg is alive and well with a new identity.
The question still remains is why a video taped execution and buy who?...

Posted by: Pquestions at May 16, 2004 09:28 AM

Mr. pquestions your animal slaughter edited and morphed idea is far fetched
it definetly doesnt look like an animal nor does the video appear doctored in the manner u are suggesting

Posted by: whatever at May 16, 2004 09:33 AM

This will be my last post and last time I come back to this site. I can see now that nobody is taken the time to read any of the previous posts.

Nick Berg's death and video taped death is not that much different than that of Daniel Pearl. Do a Google search of Daniel Pearl and you will see that he refused sedation. They also messed up while recording and re-enacted the final moments before beheading him.

The orange jumpsuit can be bought over the internet from several possible costume shop. So it is inconclusive. The chair is inconclusive, the ring is as well since we can't really say for sure that it is gold. People's mannerism's are inconclusive, since there is a possiblity that they could have been influenced by outside cultures. And basing this on whether or not somebody scratched there butt with one hand or another is off the wall.

And people ask who can gain from this, well I'll tell you that there are many other people who could gain from this. The UN, France, Germany, Russia, Democrats, among others. Since the oil for food scandal has slowly been picking up steam. This diverts attention from that since it just recently has been reported that some 20,000 documents have been found from the former Iraqi government about it. So guys I suggest that you look in all areas before assuming or laying blame with the U.S. and/or British Governments. There have been many miss deeds in respect to the mighty UN (what's funny is I believe that NATO actually has more members than the UN).

Just take a look at people's motives, most who are perpetuating this have an agenda to push. The only thing that I ask is you look at all things and weight them based on the source. It's just like being on a jury. Some people make stupid comments to prove a point and others to stir the pot. But I believe Mark Perkel is in the same category as Baghdad Bob, and completely off base.

Posted by: Rob M. at May 16, 2004 09:35 AM

"Just because you come from a place that that really has no culture, class, or history is your problem. The only thing good to come out of Canada is the Maple Syrup"

Nice.... speaking as a Canadian who has read the 300+ posts before this quote, and will read the 250+ posts after this quote, I gotta say that we us do care for what happened to Mr Berg, and were just as outraged as everyone else. There is no need to come out and mock Canadians and tell us we have no class, etc... We do care and are being supportive as a country, just because you don't like one person's response, don't blame us all. That's like me coming out and saying all Americans are dicks for what you just said about Canadians... and ya don't see me doing that now, do ya?

Posted by: Proud Canadian at May 16, 2004 09:59 AM

>"People's mannerism's are inconclusive, since there is a possiblity that they could have been influenced by outside cultures. - Rob M -

Come on man, these guys are supposed to hate America so why would they allow themselves to be influenced?

You also said "It's just like being on a jury"
Well if that were the case, based on the evidence, it would be a hung jury because there is no way it would be possible to prove these masked guys are either American or Arab.

Posted by: Alxandro at May 16, 2004 10:17 AM

We may never know the facts, as with lots of other incidents which have happened in the past. I am scared about the future of our country and others as well. Have you read the book with the title “1984”?
“In 1984, George Orwell created a whole vocabulary of words concerning totalitarian control that have since passed into our common vocabulary. More importantly, he has portrayed a chillingly credible dystopia. In our deeply anxious world, the seeds of unthinking conformity are everywhere in evidence; and Big Brother is always looking for his chance.” --Daniel Hintzsche

Posted by: Judy Yuy at May 16, 2004 10:20 AM

All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer

On a side note, I've been getting nothing but Spam since I've posting here

Posted by: Alxandro at May 16, 2004 10:23 AM

I've seen the video twice, both from the same site...and both different.

The first time I saw it my reaction was that something was weird. The screams started before Berg made any move, it sounded like someone off camera screaming, possibly female. The seguence included Berg being knocked over and a medium shot of the first strokes of the knife, then a video cut to a closer medium shot but still not full frame closeup, more 'sawing,' no blood, then more sawing, then a video cut, then a head displayed.

The second version I saw had none of the screams during the 'recitation', none of the medium shots, a couple very close shots such that all you see is a blur of orange, and the essentially the same ending.

Be interesting to see if anyone has both versions and could compare them. They both looked to me like amateur editing--which is not unexpected, but the first one had "sound effects" screwed up and not timed properly to match the 'sawing,' then they later were eliminated because someone realized they went on too long if porperly timed, and wouldn't be realistic for someone who'd had his throat cut. Other strange issues, such as the chair, jumpsuit, etc. discussed above may have explanations but together suggest something bogus.

The questions remains...who and why? If the New Yorker story that the pix were made to inimidate other prisoners, not just to torture the ones in the video, then this may have been made to suggest what whould happen to certain kinds of prisoners (in an orange jump suits) escaped and were caught by locals.

My guess NO ONE was killed in the video and Berg's corpse--killed in another place and time--was used a 'prop.' I'd even be willing to consider, although less likely, that it wasn't Berg at all.

Posted by: Mindsight at May 16, 2004 10:39 AM

Very very interesting !
It is indeed an information war of ideas.

Sadly speaking in publicity terms; if the CIA actually did this then it is indeed a stroke of Machiavelian genius. A successful (albeit murderous) stunt that can possibly affect public opinion in several of the following ways:

1. Almost totally turned the worlds attention away from the prison sex fiasco.

2. Portrayed Al Quaeda and its franchises as utterly brutish blood thirsty primitives and thugs.

3. Boosted support for funding the upcoming fiscal budget for the war against terrorism

4. Caused several leading terrorist organizations such as Hamas to denounce and distance themselves from this type of behavior.

5. Utterly freaked out many of the Iraqis insurgents and sympathizers who can't believe their own kind would resort to such methods. It makes the Americans look like angels in comparison.

6. Embarrased any Democrats, leftist etc. who have sympathies to terrorist causes.

7. Makes many fundamentalist groups (Moslim, Christin or otherwise) hunker down and adopt a lower profile so as not to draw undue bad publicity.

Profound effects .........
This rivals the USA taking down of the Taliban and capture of Saddham. If the El Quaeda or insurgent terrorist actually did this it was huge mistake.

If our own people did this then ........ I don't have to spell it out for you.

Thats my 2 cents : )

T.

Posted by: Ted at May 16, 2004 10:40 AM

OMFG! How can you be so ridiculous? A white chair? How many white chairs are there in the world? Apparently just one in your world.

Have you ever stopped to think that the beheading of Berg has been the worst PR nightmare for Bush & Co that they could ever dream off? No one would attempt something so risky. The U.S. does a lot of shady things, but it's people like you with your crazy conspiracy theories that draw attention away from the real cover-ups.

Posted by: NewYorker at May 16, 2004 10:47 AM

Dont tell me you are all surprised that the american government is hiding the facts, twisting the truth, and leading the mass public on a goosechase? The great thing about the world we live in is that we are allowed, and in a lot of cases, encouraged, to question everything, believe nothing for face value. It is our choice, and in some cases, our responsability to do so. This video is a great example of that, and all the questions surrounding the entire fiasco. but please, don't let yourselves get so completely sidetracked by this one piece of the puzzle that you are blinded to see the entire picture.

Society as a whole is becoming more enlightened and with the technology of the media, we can't have blinders on anymore. These atrocities have always been going on, but you can't ignore whats in your face, can you? Question the entire process of events... Why is the US really in Iraq? Why was it 'ok' for the bush administration to go against the UN? Why isn't any of the rest of the world stepping up to help settle this schoolyard argument? Why is it that this whole torture scandal, and now the iraqi terrorist revenge scandal, comes out at exactly the same time that oil prices are hitting their high point, and theres just enough being produced to feed consumption? We are gobally pumping out more oil than ever in the history of the world, and none of it is going to reserves. We are barely meeting demands, and starting to run dry. Do you see that on the news? If I was in the bush administration, I think that throwing one outrage at people to cover another outrage to supress the real problem is one hell of a fine idea. Smoke and Mirrors. The only way to keep a lie covered is to pile more deciet, mistruths, exaggerations, etc on top of it until noone knows whats real anymore and you are chasing the original lie even though the reasons behind it are utterly lost anyway.

There are a lot of smart people posting here, thank god for the internet to bring collective minds together and produce a larger voice. Step back and look at the bigger picture though... are you playing into the role that was meant for you? Don't be so wrapped up in white chairs and orange jumpsuits and lack of blood squirts that you miss the picture entirely... The US government has basically occupied a country with no reason, killed thousands of people in the process(inluding their own), lied to not only the american public, but the entire world, spit in the face of the UN, and taken control of how the rest of us that share this planet can enjoy the quality of our lives. ALL BASED ON A LIE. There were never any wmd in iraq, but there sure is a lot of oil. North korea has weapons, but no oil. why not liberate them? Remember, the point was to liberate the people? Get rid of the torture chambers and rape rooms? People, you are only seeing what you are allowed to see, don't ever forget that. Nick Berg probably paid dearly for what he saw. The media is a pawn of the government. Question everything in the scenario, it all smells bad. Now, we'll probably never see the other pictures and vids of candid camera iraqi torture. That was played well, wasn't it? If you read a post way up there that I wrote yesterday after trying to research the Prometheus Methods Tower Service business, Then a little later, another post with a link to an article on how there are no records for this business, you can start to form the impression that Nicks reasons for being there were not exactly what the media, or government, has told you. Look at the bigger issue people. Why did a guy who 'loved the internet' and was a telecommunications expert not have a website for his business? or even have it listed? Why was he travelling the iraqi countryside alone with limited knowledge of the language drumming up business? How the HELL did he manage to get a job (repairing antennas?) at a prison holding iraqi detainees? are you telling me that the military has noone with this skillset? They are in the practice of hiring civillian contractors? Did he fly westjet to iraq? Don't they have any accurate records or accounts of who arrested him, when he was released, when he was found, an autopsy report at the least? ignore the white chairs and orange jumpsuits, focusing on such moot points brings the value of your opinion down. The public will never, by themselves, get to the bottom of what REALLY happened to nick berg. But if you raise enough questions about the entire operation, someone with authority to look into such things will be forced to listen. If you really believe that you have the right to the truth, DEMAND IT. We do have a collective voice here, where should it be directed?

Posted by: overwhelmed at May 16, 2004 10:50 AM

The points you make may be valid, but don't you think that if Berg's killing had been done by the US, they'd have MADE A BETTER JOB OF FAKING IT?

Posted by: Wilko at May 16, 2004 10:54 AM

THICK ARMY CANVAS ON THE FLOOR?

Has anyone noticed in the video the thick brown/army style canvas that is covering the floor? You can see the fold of it by the most left "terrorists" foot before camera #2 takes in for the obvious bad close up, which i think is purposely blurred and misshandled to perhaps cover up that is was a corpse they were mutilating...i dont know. They must have has a better shot of it than that one. But for the Tarp/Canvas, Wouldnt something like this be of value in Iraq? If these were Iraqis, would they be using it to keep blood from hitting their dirt floors? Or was it there to keep the laminated floor of Abu Ghraib prison. Or to hide a prop or electrical wired if Nick Berg was indeed already dead. But the Canvas would Most certainly not be used to hold an infidels blood off the floor. Also, if it was being read by al-Zarqawi, he would have known his voice would have been identified, and if he wanted to make such a statement of doing the execuation himself, as the media reports, he would have made the statement obvious, showing his face fully. Those are my observations. Marc, first time here and its great...saw the link in AIM, and will be sure to pass it on. Good Job

Posted by: Jason at May 16, 2004 10:59 AM

If they had done a better job of faking it, we wouldnt be sitting here talking about how it was faked, having our attention drawn from the larger crisis, now would we? I'm not saying that it was faked, I think that someone is very dead. Im saying that theres a lot of covering up and public opinion manipulation going on, and not to fall for it, no matter what direction it comes from.

On that note though, dont you think its a little funny that the image of daniel pearl is chrystal clear, but this is *just grainy enough*? With all the $$ that the terrorists have backing them, couldn't they afford some better video equiptment? If hollywood can make special effects look so damn real, they can make something look pretty damn questionable too.

Notice - whenever theres a flicker in the tape, on the bottom, nick moves a little, and thats the only time he moves. the numbers on the time dont jump from one to another, they fade into eachother, yet the rest of the tape is jumpy. Its like they are keeping up with an audio track. And that damn voice at the end of the tape that sounds like the lords prayer. The body language of the *captors*. I would like to see a video analysis expert go through the tape and hear his findings.

Posted by: overwhelmed at May 16, 2004 11:04 AM

THICK ARMY CANVAS ON THE FLOOR?

Anyone notice in the video the thick Army Canvas on the floor? Something like this would have had great value in post-war Iraq. Would terrorists really use such a rare and high quality canvas to keep an infidels blood off of their dirt Hovel floors? Or was it to keep the floors of Abu Ghraib prison hidden, or the electrical wires/prop hidden if indeed Nick Berg was already dead. Secondly, what is with the bad camera work on the money shot? Out of their three cameras, no one got a better, non shaky, blurry and too closely zoomed in shot of them cutting him? THis was a little fishy to me, perhaps he was alive when they through him down, cut track, killed him humanely, cut back and then cut his head off? Who knows, all i know is that this video is riddled with such fishie stuff in contrast to the Daniel Pearl Video, in which Daniel did all the talking. If this head terrorist, al-Zarqawi, wanted to be identified and make such a statement as to killing Nick Berg himself, he would have done it without a mask on, for he knew his voice would have been identified anyway, so why the mask? Perhaps it was to hide his white face? Gasp! Also, if this video was uploaded, we should be able to find out from where, very easily in fact. So thats it for me. Marc, first time here and loved it, keep up the good work, i am already spreading the URL.

Jason

Posted by: Jason at May 16, 2004 11:13 AM

WASHINGTON (AP) - "(United States)Secretary of State Colin Powell scolded Arab governments Sunday for not expressing more outrage over the videotaped beheading of an American civilian in Iraq."
Could it be that observant Arabs ARE in fact outraged by this? As ouraged as anyone else who watched this odd video production? Could they percieve the same things so many posting here have seen? If key Arab thinkers, theologians, and politicians scrutinized this video as they should have, could it be possible that if any group of people could see through any potential discrepancies in the way the video was produced, Arabs could? Any decently technically astute person questions right away why this video is so poorly recorded, so loosely and incompetently edited, so SCRIPTED. As a rivetting and real and live beheading of a living human would instantly incite immense outrage from any person with any sense of humanity, this video, and its timing of release, questionable medical and technical aspects of its production, and the circumstances leading up to this release, have obviously tempered the overall response of the Arab world. I trust the vast majority of human beings all over this world aware of this are saddened and outraged. But I am not surprised by the lukewarm political reaction from some in the Arab world. Sometimes those who see through the veil and glimpse the awful truth of what is happening are left wringing their hands in quiet desperation, and hoping for some sort of rescue from this, when an inalienable measure of justice and truth permeates the air, and the natural essence of mankind weaves a tapestry of global peace.

Posted by: mojo at May 16, 2004 11:13 AM

nicely put mojo. I think that as a whole, we are trying to strive for acceptance and peace. We are naturally moving that way. Its the Bush's of the world that are blocking the process. Being the most powerful country in the world, why would you choose to use that power in a violent and decietful way, like a bully? Why wouldnt you use that power to set an example for the rest of us to carry forth? Power does not have to mean intimidation. It can also mean respect and acceptance.

Posted by: overwhelmed at May 16, 2004 11:17 AM

I think Berg was a CIA or Mossad agent and he was sacrificed by them after he made enough mistakes. I don't know who killed him. But look at the following:

1)Berg knew Zacarias Moussaoui. He lent him his laptop to write and email. Is this coincidential or simply a spy following a suspicious individual in an Oklahoma bus.
2)Why did he transfer from Cornell to three other colleges to never finish his degree in Oklahoma? All these changes allowed him to cover up his real job.
3)He had no engineering degree and he had a one-man company. He had no license to establish telecommunication antennas. He was going around Iraq carrying sophisticated communication equipment claiming to try to find a contract in the streets.
4)His only known job in America was during the Republican Convention in 2000 setting up microphones.
5) The FBI kept interrogating him and his family for his suspicious activities.

Posted by: Pramoedya at May 16, 2004 11:18 AM

This is a HUGE story. To me,there is enough evidence that demands and investigation. I think that if it were my son that was murdered, I would hire my own investigators. This government simply cannot be truste. Also, I too thought it was very peculiar that CNN would announce that their experts say it is not Zaqawi in the video, yet the government, who denied having Berg, would contradict that statement and demand that it was indeed him, though as it turns out, he had a fake leg and, as some have pointed out, is most likely dead. There is definately a lot to ponder. This will be the end of the Bush regime.

Posted by: VT at May 16, 2004 11:36 AM

Interesting! I've noticed that the US Government defenders find it necessary to insult Marc and all who agree with him. Guess it is too much work to 'argue' a point.

>>>My son's over there and I wish all you people with nothing else to do would get behind our government instead making our Nation look bad with all your bitching. It'd be pretty darn hard for anyone to fight for freedom knowing the people the're fighting for are so completely stupid and uncaring. Do something good or shut the hell up!

Posted by: Pat Atkinson at May 14, 2004 07:58 AM>>Put away the bias and the hate and let's unite as a country...THE greatest country...and let's give our military and this administration our undivided support so that these thugs can be ended....NOW...while we have them on the run! GOD BLESS AMERICA!!

Posted by: Curt Caito at May 14, 2004 09:11 AM>> First of all, in my opinion, who the hell cares what we do to those rat bastards???? They'd kill you in a second! They should string em up so we can all "abuse" them. They wouldn't be prisoners if they didn't do anything. They have killed so many of our people and the men and women over there are so stress out, who could blame them for beating them???? Wouldn't you??? As for the big "conspiracy" come on! Next your gonna say 9-11 was a conspiracy by our government too.

Posted by: TMB at May 14, 2004 10:27 AM>>People like you ARE the problem. Quit trying to pull the next Pentagon Papers scoop and try putting on the logic hats, k?

Posted by: DUB at May 14, 2004 05:20 PM>> So president Bush is the worst leader ever in world history. Who the hell are you people to have any say in that. I'd like to see any of you do any better. This is not President Bush, nor Rumsfelds fault.This isn't a conspiracy, you all are bored, paranoid losers with nothing else better to do. Get a life. Vote Bush!

Posted by: wounded soldier at May 15, 2004 06:44 AM>>you are all very sick, you should have more respect for your country and military and less sympathy for terrosits and the sick people who hate america

Posted by: cuteness at May 15, 2004 01:59 PM<<<

I have a great deal of sympathy for the rank and file members of our Military. Just like you, they have been so brainwashed that they believe it is right to go all over the globe injecting our will, and hang the collateral damage.

People. I used to think like you. Then I watched the coverage on Kosovo. What an eye opener. 500 American Airmen took out a full page ad in the Washington Post, telling us we were being lied to about the Serbs.

Long before I read that ad, on the 'second' day after NATO entered Kosovo, the General was giving his daily briefing. Among other things, he said "We have interviewed Hundreds of Thousands of Muslim women who have said they were raped by Serbian soldiers."

Maybe you can see what is wrong with that statement.........



Posted by: Rebecka at May 16, 2004 11:37 AM

Combat Infantryman:

Thats right, sit in silence, believe whatever the media feeds you, laugh at leno's jokes, and dont make ripples. Thats great that you witnessed everything first hand. Maybe you could provide a valid reason why we should cease and desist?

Did you take any pictures while you were there?

Do you have anything of value to say, other than insults? You are pretty quick to jump all over a few comments, but lend no real argument to the topic at hand. Form an intelligent sentence or two and maybe you can sway us that way.

Posted by: overwhelmed at May 16, 2004 11:49 AM

marc, while I appreciate you keeping the board clean of insulting comments, being able to read both sides of an argument helps the clarity. You can't have to good without the bad...

Posted by: overwhelmed at May 16, 2004 11:51 AM

The truth must hurt. I sense a level of repressed sexuality in your vulgar diatribe, I can see this same frustration explaining the sexual abuses of prisoners at Abu Ghraib. You follow orders, blindly, with a high sense of sensory-injected devotion, and the pallor and rigidity of a programmed robot, spewing pre-programmed propogandist rhetoric, and delivering with highly mechanized and electronic precision, a hail of liberating bullets. When you kill, Combat Infantryman, who do you serve? Or who serves you? In my opinion, true patriots and true followers of logic, reason, compassion, and truth, know we live under a tyrannical and deceptive regime, whose main tool in disinformation. We however choose to dissect this information and toss away the chafe and keep the heart of the matter at hand, without blind faith in the virtues of evil deception and coercion, torture and humiliation.

Posted by: mojo at May 16, 2004 11:59 AM

Sorry, Most of what "I" wrote in the above, was edited out???? What gives???

To Pat Atkinson, Your post looks like something that would have been directed at Nazi detractors.

To Curt Caito, Hopefully you will understand why, when all the ill will we are building toward America explodes in our faces. What on earth is wrong with these people to think that they deserve any type of Justice or Humanity?

ps, I think God is kind of sick of blessing us.

To TMB, Did you ever think we would get bin Laden? I never did. His family and the Bush family being so close and all.....

To Dub, Did you ever actually read the Pentagon Papers? If so, why is it so hard to believe that 5 (FIVE) US Presidents could have lied to us, and pulled what they pulled, but you can't believe Bush can follow in their footsteps?

To cuteness, But you see, we are cloning more people to HATE America daily, simply by the actions of our leaders. I have a great deal of respect for that fact. The way history repeats itself, that fact does not bode well for the longevity of this country.

Posted by: Rebecka at May 16, 2004 11:59 AM

again, mojo, very nicely stated.

Posted by: overwhelmed at May 16, 2004 12:05 PM

I have always been as red blooded American as it gets, I have served for my country. I have always been very very proud of our way of life and what we represent, To me we were right in our actions in 91, should have finished it when we "were" being asked to help. We were also right after 9/11 to protect outselves and to hunt down the dogs that were behind it. But try as I have untill last night. I watched what may seem a silly movie, called the Last Samurai and it hit me like a stone wall. plain and simple as it gets we were not asked this time. We are becoming what we have faught against since we left Egland. Dont get me wrong, I will support our troops with all I have, they are my brothers in sister in a way only those they have served can understand. Except for those in the photo's Those I would see shot in front of a firing squad on CNN, they are NOT American Soldiers they are trash. We the soldiers no when the order is unlawful can refuse to obey. I will no longer argue our reasons to be there. But we must finish and clean up the mistake we have made as best possible. with as little harm as we can, give them thier homes back and leave, not to ever return again without being asked by "The People" of those countries.
But my feelings for our leaders have changed and the sad thing is nomatter what choice we make this upcoming vote we loose again. I dont want Bush back in, but I will take him over the indecisive Kerry that is even more self serving then what we have now. But maybe just maybe we can make our feelings heard loud enough to Bush somehow to put our long standing rules back into effect. Not to enter a county unasked by the people there, and take it over. To hunt the terrorist, YES by all means, but most goverments will allow this and there are means to do it even if not with approval other then toppling a government unless they choose to go to war, with us themselves, to protect those terrorist. We are the so call "Super Power" but that is because of us the people NOT the government or any one man or woman. We got thier because of our beliefs and the strict sticking to those beliefs. In this position we must lead by example, and I am sorry but this choice is not the right one. We are not supposed to be the bully we are the protector of the people, and when 51% of the people including those of other nations say no then we should not do it. If Iraq was supporting the terriost then close down the support methods not the nations. or the innocents within it. I am sorry but it appears maybe the blinders of the rage we felt after 9/11 were larger then we first thought, I know they were for me. But now they are off. For this young man Mr. Berg I am so sorry. I am as sorry for his death as I am embarased by the actions of those in that prision that brought it upon him . My heart felt sampathy for his family. But two wrongs do not make a right. and we must hold ourselves accountable as noone else can, except one, and that will happen soon enough.
He will decide for all the nations.
Untill that time we must. Those Iraqi prisoners did nothing more then thier duty, just as our soldiers done and are trying to do. Do you really feel thier actions in that prision were justifiable, if you do then you not the ones I serverd to protect, you are not The Americans I feel a part of. And I do so hope that some day you can take thier place on the recieving end of that leash.
If you know in your heart how wrong it was, and what we have held dear for 55 years since its signing then you also realize the intensity and the pure treason of doing so. It should be delt with as Treason and punished with the highest possible penalty. for those that physically done it and a life in prison for each knowingly involved in thier chain of command.
We must change, before it is to late. No power on this earth at this time, is beyond reach and no power stands without those to hold it strong. Men will only truely fight for what they believe. I am sorry but I have lost the belief in the path we are now on. Just the thoughts of one ol American soilder.
God bless us all.

Posted by: Jim at May 16, 2004 12:09 PM

To Alxandro,

I dunno, I'm not Arab. :)

But I've never heard anything like that.

Posted by: Ali at May 16, 2004 12:11 PM

David,

We've all moved on from the plastic chair. Can you argue the other statements and opinions in the comments above, or is one moot point your only basis?

My friend, you have seen, and now believe, exactly what you were supposed to. Wake up. Are you so brainwashed and trusting in a corrupt system that you can't question what you see, even a little?

Posted by: overwhelmed at May 16, 2004 12:12 PM

If you've ever seen a one of these prison jump suits close up, you will immediately know that Berg's outfit is different. The U.S. issue prison garb is made of a canvas-like material intended to survive years of heavy use. It has no shine to it, and you can clearly see shine on the Berg's outfit. The color isn't right either, although bad low-light video isn't very accurate on color. No, we should probably drop Berg's outfit from the equation.

Posted by: Ken at May 16, 2004 12:19 PM

- chair out
- ring out
- orange jumpsuit out

although these are the things this post was first started on ( 3 days ago ), I believe that leaves a whole lot of other open questions.

Before anyone says 'yay! I have a white chair!' please read the other arguments or risk looking seriously misinformed as the the debate at hand.

Posted by: overwhelmed at May 16, 2004 12:24 PM

I can't really say for sure what's going on, but there's just enough valid questions that would seem to discredit the "official" story. I haven't seen the video - I'm not eager to - but if there really is this absence of blood everyone keeps talking about... that would seem to shoot the down the video's authenticity.

Someone posted above that they read an editorial that gives a wide discrepency between the day the body was discovered (the 11th of May) & the date on the alleged video/murder (the 14th of May). Unfortunately, this person didn't post a link or name the paper. Did anyone else see that editorial? I only raise this point as I have yet to see any major news coverage provide the exact date the body was recovered.

Posted by: Harbard at May 16, 2004 12:25 PM

- I forgot to add -

the orange suit, chair & ring don't really grab me as fishy - the editing, the victem's detention at the hands of his own government & other details seem much more compelling & worthy of investigation.

Posted by: Harbard at May 16, 2004 12:31 PM

Hey people...

After they cut Nick's head off & hold it up for the world to see....A few drops of what appears to be blood fall from the head. Now here is what I can definately tell you...

1.) If a persons head was freshly cut off & held up...blood would pour from it. No matter how much drugs or whatever they couldve given him....If Nick Berg was alive...his head would be dripping. Our brain needs blood to live, & let me tell you there sure as hell wasnt much!...no blood, no life. Simple as that.

2.) The few blood droplets that fell from the head were thick....which can only mean one thing..the blood was infact coagulated....& that people, only happens after death & into rigor mortis. Any person who has ever seen a goddamn zombie movie can tell you that! So in conclusion to this, Nick Berg WAS DEAD before his beheading. His mouth never even moved during the process...He never kicked...squirmed...or even twitched....he was lifeless.

The white chair, the background..that could all be just coincidence....But lets face it....theres something not right here at all!

& as far as the timeline goes, I am in the movie business....I work for an indy-production company...& everything that has been released to the US regarding terrorist tapes have never been this high tech! & the way the US validated this tape so quickly is astonishing! They've never been so quick witted before..

Theres something not right here...what it is yet, I'm not sure. But lets hope we find out.

In the meantime, GET OVER THE WHITE CHAIR thing. look at the real issues...

Posted by: Bryan at May 16, 2004 12:32 PM

I dont know if im easily persuded or what...But that totally won me over. After reading that, I was also thinking maybe to explain his calm-ness...he was drugged or something? And killed for one of two reasons...
Cover up something(he knew something he shouldnt)
or
Just to make the terrorist look worse and gather more support for the war

Either way....what happened was TOTALLY fucked up.

Posted by: Steve at May 16, 2004 12:37 PM

another question I have, is in reference to the waepon used. it seemed to be a clean cut, done in a timely fashion. but the knife itself seems a little small, thin, to cut through vertebrea, muscle, and tendons so quickly... It seems to me that there would be a lot of sideways motion, downward, and more of a chopping motion needed... then again that could have been edited out. Im sorry for the gruesome descriptions, and Im very sorry for the family. Questions do need to be answered though.

Posted by: overwhelmed at May 16, 2004 12:44 PM

I think you have made some keen observations. It isn't uncommon for the CIA/Bush Administration to "mess up". Just look at 9/11... but that's a whole different story, isn't it and most of you don't want to believe that our US government can do anything to hurt our own people; that's a noble standpoint, no doubt, but nobility sometimes makes you a victim.

The the idiot who stated that we have to stand behind the "administration" in order to support our troops, that is simply untrue. Support your troops... because all they are to the US government is BODIES. They need bodies and they got them, now didn't they?

"People are stupid. They believe what they want to believe, either because they want it to be true or they're afraid it might be true." -Terry Goodkind

Also, to the open-minded person who made recorded these theories, I applaud you. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

"If someone is going to stab you in the back, closing your eyes will not keep you safe." -Terry Goodkind

I also thought it might be fair to warn you all that America is in hot water already. There are many against us including China, Japan, Iraq (of course), Afganistan, Cuba, North Korea, and the biggest threat of all... our own government. It won't be long now. If anyone ever has the time, take a look at a world map and notice how incredibly small North America is compared to the rest of the world. It won't take much to blow us off the map.

"The great round mountain of the seven hills
After it has gone through peace, war, famine and inundation
Will tumble far, sending the great country into the abyss
Even its antiquities will be lost and its great foundation.
You will see, early and late, great changes take place
Extremes of horror and prosecutions...
A barren earth and increasing scarcity
And great deluges will be perceived."
-Michel de Nostradamus

Don't think for one second that North Korea will hesitate nuking us off the map. They won't.

Furthermore, if our government/CIA have done nothing wrong, why are there so many against us? Are they all insane? My guess is no.

Love our troops and bring them home. We will need them on our own soil very soon.

Posted by: Xiala at May 16, 2004 12:51 PM

Not only is it our right to ask questions...it's our responsibility as US citizens!!!

This story smells...and smells BAD!

Nothing adds up. Forget the chair! Forget the shoes! Why was he calm? Where is the blood? Why two cameras? Why the time lapses? Why do they appear to be white? Why would this happen to someone with so many questionable ties to terrorists and the government? Why the discrepancies in the dates of capture, release and execution? Why are there so many inconsistencies within the media, almost as if facts were spilled and were quickly swept under the rug?! And what about the emails to the family? What about the family connections to anti-war, and whatnot? Throw in the fact that he was Jewish and we not only have a substantiated reason to question the government, but a moral and ethical reason as well!!! We must not let this stone go unturned. The truth must be sought, and heaven forbid if our government was responsible for this massacre the powers at be should be held accountable for their actions and lack of compassion. Murders occur on our turf every day. Why would someone assume that murder is Un-American? Just because it didn't happen here, doesn't mean that it didn't happen and that Americans were not responsible for it.

For the ones who view this as lack of support for our troops...

I received the link to this information from someone in the US military. If this person is asking questions...shouldn't we?

Posted by: alwaysask?s at May 16, 2004 12:53 PM

I see the Republicans are slamming you hard. Must be worried.

Berg had previously been suspected of having ties to the 9-11 hijackers. He had previously been to Iraq on legitimate business. Then he went back in search of work, with no luck. Who would go over there without something already lined up? News reports also said he had been to the mid-east multiple times in the past.

You can bet that having been a suspect previously, they government did not drop that from their records. When he made multiple trips to that part of the world, you know it drew government attention. Once he was picked up and had no legitimate explanation for being in Iraq, you know the government was highly suspicious. Considering how long they've held people at Gitmo, you know he wasn't quickly released. Not with his suspcious background and activities.

So, you have a renegade intelligence agency that picks up a suspcious American that they consider to be a traitor. This same agency is already drawing international heat for their previous abuses. It's no stretch of the imagination to think they'd execute a "traitor" to detract attention from prisoner abuse.

Posted by: Unknown at May 16, 2004 12:53 PM

something to listen to:
http://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/051404watson.htm

Posted by: ovwewhelmed at May 16, 2004 12:54 PM

Jim, it is people like you I would feel honored and lucky to have around to help defend me against a legitimate military invasion of America. You seem decent, honorable, impassioned, and dedicated to what you believe in.

The prime factor that moves humanity forward is a sense of self-correction. Unfortunately, hoisting any flag and pledging a form of allegiance to it, and adhering to that allegiance in the face of tyranny, deception, and haughty, arrogant supremacies of alleged righteousness without self-correction is dangerous. George Bush is a devout Christian allegedly, and Christianity, like so many monotheistic faiths, is NOT self-correcting. Therefore, when pitted against each other, combatants representing "infallible" religious regimes are both wrong going in, when viewed from opposing sides. When many begin to question the motives and practices of those attempting to regulate our behavior by instilling guilt in us, then maybe the day will come when the people will decide who their enemies are based on their own personal experiences, and not on what political and religious leaders tell us. And maybe the day will come when the many will realize it is the few who are the true enemies.... the few reaping the vast benefits the racket known as war brings. I gain nothing if my two nephews fighting in Iraq come home dead. I respect their decision to help in the security of America, and honor their decision to serve this country. They are good men. But they both now realize that the oath they swore to defend the poeple and the constitution of the United States shouldn't include unprovoked aggression and invasion of other countries. When the shipped out they were both ready and willing to help free the people of Iraq from an evil tyrant and end the announced immediate threat his regime posed for America. Now they both realize that the war they fight serves noone but the purveyors of pornographic violence, and weaponry to mass destroy. Their cause is now known to them as a cause to liberate spending and proliferate the growing budget needed to maintain the current disorder in Iraq and Afghanistan. Ask who profits. See who really gains from war. I can only hope they come home okay, and soon.

Posted by: mojo at May 16, 2004 12:54 PM

I failed to add a very important statement.

"Why would the CIA/Bush Administration stage and plot such a terrible thing? They'd have no reason to do such a thing!"

ANSWER: There's a "nice" little thing called over-the-top Nationalism... look it up. If you are having trouble finding it, look up "Sept. 11, 2001".

Posted by: Xiala at May 16, 2004 12:57 PM

These are some questions you must ask yourselves:

1. Look at the time lapse.

2. Why doesn't Berg look frightened? How would you be acting if you knew you were about to have your head cut off?

3. True, the white lawn chairs are everywhere, but I wouldn't pass it off as just a coincidence yet. Take a look at all the other photos of American prisoners... none of them have that chair in them.

4. The lack of blood. Wouldn't there be blood dripping from the head?

5. Where is the proof that Berg is really dead? Sure, they had a funeral, but they don't have open caskets for those who have been mutilated.

6. The "terrorists" seem to be costumed, and it's even more suspicious that their faces are masked. In other photos, you never see the terrorists hiding their faces. These men have something to hide, and it's undoubtedly the fact that they are white.

7. The "terrorists" keep repeating the same thing over and over again... with terrible dialect. Why don't they say something different? Perhaps it's because they don't know much Arabic.

8. The orange jumpsuit - prisoners of war are never given uniforms, much less and orange one; it would draw too much attention.

9. The fact that the individual performing the "beheading" is supposed to be al-Zarqawi. al-Zarqawi did indeed lose a leg... even prosthetics cannot allow you to be that swift on your feet. They are very constricting. This man doesn't even appear to have a limp.

10. There is speculation as to Berg's connection with the 9/11 hijackings.

"Question everything."

Posted by: Xiala at May 16, 2004 01:20 PM

I find it so hard to believe that some folks are so naive. Do you really believe that the Bush administration gives 2 shits about you? If it helped them maintain their facade of benevolence they would chop off your head too..
Wake up and smell the blood!

Posted by: joi at May 16, 2004 01:21 PM

They said they were taking revenge for abuses in an Iraqi prison. It seems likely they would place him in an orange jumpsuit as a symbolic measure, you renobs.

Posted by: lordofentropy at May 16, 2004 01:31 PM

Looks like you have definitely fallen into place, lordofentropy.

Posted by: mojo at May 16, 2004 01:35 PM

those dont look like bullet proof vests to me.. more like vests with explosive's strapped to them.

Posted by: drg at May 16, 2004 01:44 PM

What kind of explosives? Are you an expert in explosives? I don't see vests either, though perhaps they're wearing them under their clothes. Nothing unique to U.S. personnel about bullet-proof vests, though. I'm sure you can buy them anywhere in the world. Those are definitely pouches for ammo magazines, that's for sure. I still don't buy 100% that those are terrorists. They are some dumpy looking sonsofbitches, and most of the al-Qaedists I've seen- in their training videos- are built like human gazelles. Very trim and lithe. Some of these guys look like they're well-acquainted with the Big Mac.

~ Mike

Posted by: Michael Miller at May 16, 2004 02:05 PM

Scary thing is that we're probably being monitored by the Office of Homeland Security. And schmuck that I am, I've posted under my real name. Not too bright is this particular Miller... just a minute, someone's knocking at the door...... Hello? Aarrrrggghhhhhhhh!


~...............

Posted by: Michael Miller at May 16, 2004 02:08 PM

I find it interesting that Geraldo Rivera could point out all of the inconsistencies in Nick Berg's life and not one was made of the actual video tape and what has been discussed here. Obviously the media is controlled. Did anyone else notice that Berg's feet never moved during the entire video, even though they are in an uncomfortable position? That was the first thing I noticed when watching the tape.

Posted by: thisisscary stuff at May 16, 2004 02:13 PM

OMG II !!! Check out this chair outside CIA HQ in Baghdad:

http://www.hobotraveler.com/123_02cia01.shtml

Posted by: scoopmeister at May 16, 2004 02:43 PM

The red prisoner uniform is symbolic referring to the prisoners at guantanamo and elsewhere. The executer states his name, but covers his face. This is a point, which is restated over and over again. This may be due to the fact that he might have changed his appearances and wants his new identity to remain unknown. Comments on the chair and the goldring are truly pathetic and will not be further commented on. Is the video and the killing then authentic? There are people who believe that if this was the act of the CIA, then we would not easily spot all the errors casting doubts on the authenticity of the video. "They were white and fat". Hmmm first of all it's not clear to me at all that they were white, secondly not all Iraqis have a dark skin color, thirdly the CIA could easily have staged this video with anyone among the thousands of Iraqis working for them. So what is my conclusion? My conclusion is that yes this was the act of CIA. The video casts doubts on the authenticity of the pictures and this is precisely the ingenious point. Those few who doubt it's authenticity will only be lured into a debate, which they should not have entered in the first place. They will see them selves being reduced and having their credibility questioned, since this is not a debate which they can enter and win. The rules are not in your favor, since you probably have no influence on the media and the fact of life is that for every argument you present there will be an equally valid argument from your opponent. You are using the the orange prisoner uniform as a proof of conspiracy, but everyone seem to have failed to realize the counter-argument I presented at the beginning of my post. Now how come you failed to realize that, but the news media did not? Are they smarter than you are? Of course not. Answer? Well, simply the news media was fed with the info


I will draw a parallell to the photos released in UK, which proved to be false. Now who do you think released those pictures? Ofcourse the very same government who pointed out that they were false. The whole debate of prisoner abuse was turned into a debate of authenticity of the pictures, a debate which in fact was totally irrelevant, since Brittish abuse is an established fact. Every time a picture will surface in the media, people will doubt it's authencity and they will no longer respond to the horrors. Life is never perfect and the sequence of events are never perfect. When timing is perfect I bet you it is staged. This is how you will know how to judge and who to judge.

Posted by: Enlighted at May 16, 2004 02:55 PM

It seems to me that some of you are either part of the intelligence agency of America or have benefits by persuading us that there's no way it could be the work of another cover-up mastermind plan of America.Trying very hard to make us re-hate the Iraqis after Al Ghraib!
Capice!?

Posted by: Markus at May 16, 2004 03:00 PM

Isn't it curious to any one else the timing of all of this?? Um hellloooo, I shudder to think that votes for the Kerry "ainistration" are more important than shedded lives to make the BUsh adinistration look bad!! You have just cemented my vote, Mr. Kerry and co. Nice to know you rever American life so vitally! Thanks, but no thanks!! Now,.. when will we be seeing the videos of this mutual treatment of the Iraqi POW'S????? HMMMMMMMMMMMMM?

Posted by: Jessy at May 16, 2004 03:34 PM

First of all, most of the irate commenters here could do with a grammar lesson or two; their double-digit IQs are screamingly evident through their infelicitous NeoCon blather.

Secondly, the obvious Berg deception is hardly meritorious of consideration in light of the larger question, long lost in all such Administration diversions. That question is:

On 9/11, why did it take NORAD 80 minutes to loft a jet when, for 50 years, their boast has been that they can put one at 29,000 feet in 2-1/2 minutes, from the pilot being fast asleep to sustained flight - AND have done so every time it's been tried, in scrambles, from which the Blue Angels and other tactical squads have evolved.

Consider this brief timeline:

SEPTEMBER 11, 2001

AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 11

* 8:13 - communication with traffic controller is lost

* 8:15 - deviates far more than 2 miles / 15 degrees off course

* 8:20 - plane transponder is turned off

* 8:24 - controllers hear voices in cockpit, on plane's intercom, telling passengers that the plane has been taken over

* 8:27 - plane attendant Betty Ong contacts American Airlines reservations agent to inform her of the hijack

* 8:35 - controllers intercept another warning from the hijackers, telling passengers to remain calm

* 8:40 - NORAD is finally contacted (27 minutes after initial deviation)

* 8:46 - Norad scrambles a jet from Otis Air National Guard Base...at the very moment Flight 11 is crashing into the WTC. The fighter is going only 2/3rds its top speed of 1000+ MPH.

* 8:47 - according to CNN, NORAD is informed that the WTC has been struck (informed???? with their equipment, they had to be informed by others????)

FLIGHT 77

* 8:36 - deviates wildly from course, then restabilizes

* 8:46 - Flight 11 crashes into WTC

* 8:56 - controllers lose contact with Flight 77

* 8:58 - Jim McDonnell (AA rep) calls controllers; airline tries to contact pilots & fails

* 8:59 - 9:03 - McDonnell talking to controllers

* 9:04 - Flight 157 crashes into WTC

* 9:04 - 9:15 - McDonnell talking to controllers still (29 minutes contact loss with Flight 77 by now)

* 9:24 - NORAD is finally informed 77 is in trouble

* 9:25 - FAA & Pentagon stop all take-offs in US

* 9:27 - NORAD is scrambling jets from Langley, 130 miles away from Wash DC, instead of Andrews, which is only 1 minute away

* 9:38 - Flight 77 hits Pentagon

* 9:53 - jets are *now* circling Wash DC

There is SO much more than that readily available info, but...with the bovinity of the American public, what's the use? Of course, the terrorists have won: they're in the White House. Put the TV to bed, read a little Chomsky, and wake up.

Posted by: da dawg at May 16, 2004 03:35 PM

More chairs in Iraq. In a private home, at various cafes...

http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/nea/iraq/gallery/iraq-2003/0422tues6bg.jpg
http://www.cnnespanol.com/2003/mundo/04/03/cafe.jordania/cafe.story.jpg
http://www.pcusa.org/peacemaking/images/iraq/12.jpg

Apparently there are Walmarts in Iraq.

Posted by: Steve(CAN) at May 16, 2004 03:37 PM

You guys are pathetic! What happened was horrible, and you want to stretch it even further by accusing the Bush administration of a conspiracy? Your "proof" is way below circumstantial, so much so that I dont even think it could be considered proof. I'm sick and tired of these high and mighty bastard's that have nothing better to do than make light of other's grievances, and come up with ridiculous stories ot amuse themselves. Let the deceseased be and recognize that this was a murder commited by radical Iraqi's to protest the abuse of Iraqi POW's. Notice I admit we abused POW's, and I'm not trying to pull a conspiracy theory out of my ass.

Now to tear apart your evidence. The chair...you think Iraqi's are so stuck up they wont have the same chair in two locations? And the gold ring thing...that's just pathetic. It doesnt deserve a comment from my end. Anyway, that's all your going to hear from me for now. Now please go and find a more practical way to amuse yourself.

-Rizzo

Posted by: Rizzo at May 16, 2004 04:01 PM

Yea but look at the floors they are different colors...and also how do people "yell american" i think all the yells are the same

Posted by: Mike at May 16, 2004 04:06 PM

Has anyone besides me noticed that the guy on the right is carrying an H&K MP5. The two on the left have AK47's (the gun of choice in most developing and communist countries) while the guy on the right has an MP5 (The gun of choice for most western military special ops.) Just an observation, but I challenge you to prove me wrong.

Posted by: bowlsmoker at May 16, 2004 04:12 PM

I just watched this video, the very first thing to strike me was his posture and lack of movement whilst this is happening. the video was so poor that I couldn't see any blood either, but since this has been mentioned a lot it just backs up my first impressions that he was already dead.

anyone who thinks the US government is capable of something like doesn't deserve the freedom that that government grants them. the people who are capable of that are islamic terrorists that your government is fighting.

get behind them, or it might be your head next.

Posted by: Al at May 16, 2004 04:28 PM

are u guys blind he clearly moves and adjusts while the sicko reading is talking look at the terrorists theyre not moving too much maybe they are dead too

Posted by: sighhhhhhh at May 16, 2004 04:31 PM

I've fallen into place? No, I'm just not going to start yelling "conspiracy" over some really bad assertions based on ridiculous logic.

The same chair! OMG! I've sat in no less than a hundred of those same chairs in my lifetime. Do you think America is the world's only importer of cheap plastic white chairs? Maybe you are suggesting the Quran prohibits usage of white chairs, so therefore it must be Americans?

He is wearing a gold ring! OMG! I mean noone would ever go against the tenets of their religion. I mean xtians never lie, steal, murder, or commit adultery. So obviously a muslim man would never wear a gold ring! But xtians do. Holy crap they must be Americans.

Same color walls! OMG! I've got yellow walls in my house, they did this in MY house. I mean there aren't yellow walls anywhere else in the entire world. Yellow paint is extremely rare and only given out to people with special vouchers.

Orange jumpsuit! OMG! I had forgotten that America has a monopoly on orange jumpsuits. America is land of the free and orange jumpsuits after all. They MUST be Americans!

Why don't you do something useful with your time like find some UFOs, or the missing frames of the Zapruder film that show the driver shooting JFK with a shellfish poison gun.


Posted by: lordofentropy at May 16, 2004 04:45 PM

Guys,

I have setup a message board related to this and the Bush Administration so that we can have more organized discussions:

http://www.tone39.com

Posted by: Headsurfer at May 16, 2004 05:00 PM

ok i think everyone needs to calm down just a little bit. i understand that it happened, and its a horrible thing, but there's no use fighting over the past, you don't have all the facts that the FBI and the government officials have, all we as americans on our average computers can do, is to try to change the future as much as possible.

Posted by: angeredamerican at May 16, 2004 05:02 PM

lack of blood coming out of the head when the psycho terrorist guy holds it up can easily be explained by the time lapse in the video, during the pause mr bergs head drains/leaks the blood it contained, the terrorist gives the knife to his buddy to finish up and show the world mr. bergs now blood drained head. this lapse is almost a minute long. also the terroists passing the knife seems significant to me im not sure as to exactly why either one guy chickened out or both wanted to have a hand in it
the whole thing is really disturbing.

Posted by: smokey at May 16, 2004 05:08 PM

Is it just me or does the pakistani guy with the gun also have on a GOLD RING?
hmmmmmmmmm

Posted by: John Smiatch at May 16, 2004 05:14 PM

to explain why no blood spurting all over during the act: psycho man is holding mr bergs head down against the veins/arteries being cut, theres blood and alot of it ,u have too really look too see it, its flowing down to the floor on the dark drop/blanket/canvas. this dark material was used because it made it difficult to see blood and to aid in disposal and hide the mess. just wrap it all up and throw it right into the bed of a truck

Posted by: smokey at May 16, 2004 05:21 PM

What a hodge podge. Simple Silliness here.

Posted by: Jim Taylor at May 16, 2004 05:25 PM

My first reaction when I first saw the news! Bravo for sharing a very strong theory.

Posted by: Parrot at May 16, 2004 05:59 PM

can someone send me a link to the video, i cant find it online (actually, i just dont have enough time to search on my dial up connection) i would really appreciate it!!!!

dbcjr285@ufl.edu

Posted by: Jill at May 16, 2004 06:08 PM

Mexican MD says Berg was allready dead.

Posted by: Israel at May 16, 2004 06:12 PM

Someone brought up the fact that the "reader" covered his mouth with his hand when he coughed. It is very true that Arabs use their left hand as their "sanitary" hand, and use their right hand to serve and eat food.

That being said, why on earth would someone put their "sanitary" hand up to their mouth when coughing?

It's so blatantly obvious that these people were not Arab. It's also so blatantly obvious that this video is a complete and utter fake.

Posted by: Skeptic at May 16, 2004 06:17 PM

I watched the clip once, almost barfed but I specifically saw blood flowing into the corner from the neck. Who cares about the chair.. their are billions of those $4 chairs. Isnt the same jumpsuit, and the bums with masks hide their faces because they know theyd be hunted down like vermin if they showed them. Watch for a new 5 pack of cards coming soon via the FBI.

Posted by: Mr E. at May 16, 2004 06:38 PM

There are two things that make me think there is something fishy about this Berg killing.
1) the fact that Mossaoui had gotten Berg's e-mail pass word. What are the odds of this? This sticks out the most to me. I don't know what it means, but who would EVER give out their e-mail passowrd to a stranger? I can only conclude that Berg is some sort of intelligence agent-- CIA or Mossad.
2) no one has said anything about this but it also seems very odd to me: I saw a Larry King live show the day of Berg's funeral where they were talking about Berg, and had some of his "friends" on. So what seemed suspicious (this probably sounds stupid) is they had a black guy on who said he was a family friend. The guy looked very familiar to me, and I keep thinking is he is an actor, playing a part as a family "friend". The guy seemed very nice, very trustworthy-- basically the kind of guy you'd want to put on to show that Nick Berg was a regular guy. This may be pure tinfoilhattery, but I think Berg was some sort of intelligence agent.

Although the guys in the video do look a little odd, Berg may have been indeed killed by Iraqi terrorists -- I don't think we can rule it out. The fact is, we don't know what happened but the timing of this episode is very fishy, and with the Mossaoui connection, this is just too much coincidence.

Posted by: Alex at May 16, 2004 07:05 PM

ok the chair bit was weak I think ne rational person would agree that a plastic white chair is pretty common
the reason that he is so calm could be attributed to the fact that he himself probably presumed that they wanted him to make a statement to the camera
i cant see how u can tell from those pictures that they ae wearing bullet proof vests but if they where could this be why they are fat ????
you do raise an interesting fact about the jumpsuit the one that Nicholas Berg is wearing looks similar but not the same

But thats what the coalition is doing over there
PROTECTING YOUR RIGHT TO HAVE AN OPINION

Posted by: Army at May 16, 2004 07:06 PM

Nothing can be put past the most corrupt lying bunch of thugs since Nixon Marc,Thanks for pointing out what you found to the world.The truth will prevail.

Posted by: Randall at May 16, 2004 07:25 PM

Thank you for the pic. You confirm what iI have suspected. The only people who benefit from this are the neocons, not the Iraqui insurgents.

Posted by: Duncan Ragsdasle at May 16, 2004 07:42 PM

there are no major discrepancies in the timestamp of the video. In the one with the regular timestamp, the beheading starts at 2:44:41 and ends before 2:46:18 (when the head is being held up.) A total of 1m37s or less. In the one with the army timestamp, the beheading starts at 13:45:48 and ends at 13:47:47 (when the head is picked up from the floor.) A total of 1m59s.

There is a 20 second difference between the cameras, not 11 hours like some has suggested. Although I have no explanation for this.

Posted by: Apathwhy at May 16, 2004 07:55 PM

I just like to add, I also noticed the terrorist in the video pictured to the right appears to be trained in American Martial Arts, I can tell this just by looking at his wide multi-purpose stance. He is also wearing white sneakers like we do here in America.

Posted by: Joe at May 16, 2004 07:59 PM

I mentioned the fact that the reader when coughing covered his mouth with his "sanitary" hand.

Upon further review, at least 2 of the other bozos standing there put their sanitary hand to their mouths. In fact, Terrorist #4 actually appears to be putting his fingers IN his mouth with his "sanitary" hand at timestamp 2:43:07.

Now what arab would do this? None.

Posted by: Skeptic at May 16, 2004 08:04 PM

It seems to me, could it possibly be that Berg pissed off the wrong people? And maybe just maybe his fate was designed as a subtle warning to any of the rest of us to not step on the wrong people's toes, to stop asking questions. It's beginning to seem possible that Berg had less than 1 degree of separation from some of things that have been going on in the world. The question is, who did he actually piss off more, the terrorist side or the US power elite side? Or maybe Haliburton was not liking the stiff competition? Anyway are the terrorists usually picking up certain Americans or just any random ones will do? I'm sure the Cia and US miltitary regime wouldn't hesitate to take out someone they claim was a threat to National security. They masterfully are able to justify almost any hienous thing with that claim, then they never have to prove anything either. Or answer to anybody? It's always no questions please. Eisenhower said "to Beware of the military industrial complex", anyway it's a known fact that military industrial complexes have a tendency to topple Democracies, ( not create them) Check out how Rome fell.

Posted by: Suzanne at May 16, 2004 08:37 PM

For the record, I worked in forensics for several years.

I watched the video after reading through the posts here. In fact, I watched it several times to see if I could spot the inconsistancies listed throughout this site.

I agree that it's interesting that there is what appears to be an identical chair in the prison photos. Also, the orange jump suit is a strange way to dress a captive if you are going to kidnap him. These items raise questions that deserve further investigation and explanation.

As to the blood...there is LOTS of blood in the video. Watch it again near the end and you will see that the rug on the floor soaks up a great deal of blood as does visible part of the back of the orange jump suit. There is blood spatter on the face at the end of the video (when the head is being held), and blood at the base of the skull with tissue hanging below (same part of video).

The time descrepancy certainly leads one to believe that there were either two cameras, or that the speech was read earlier, and then the victim was beheaded later.

Do these point to a government conspiracy? Who knows?

Posted by: Watch-it-again at May 16, 2004 08:37 PM

Why did the counter in the video jump a whole hour right before his head gets chopped off?

Posted by: Mister Stephens at May 16, 2004 09:11 PM

Problem- Reaction -Solution

If there's a certain outcome you wish to achieve and you hold the power to create a problem that will acheive a certain reaction that will then warrant a "justified" solution- which is the solution you always had wanted.

And then it's what you pay attention to. If you're any good at it you get everyone paying attention to "what's really important"

In the old days didn't the bad guys set the school on fire at one end of town while they were robbing the bank at the other end of town? That way they had everyonme paying attention to "what's really important" or everyone was at least paying attention to what they thought was important at the time. Anyway it sure helped take the edge off robbing the bank, knowing police and ambulance and fire fighters and news media were all at the other end of town.

Think about that everytime they jerk our attention to something.

Think about who's robbing our bank right now while we conveiently pay attention to everything else.

Oh you think we're not being robbed. Think again, to the tune of trillions.

Remember when Russia fell because they were bankrupt, they said that's the problem with communism, eventually you go bankrupt. Wait until they say that about democracy.

Problem-Reaction-Solution

What are you going to pay attention to?

Posted by: Suzanne at May 16, 2004 09:15 PM

I also believe this was a hoax after watching the video. When a person dies the lower jaw drops and the mouth opens. This didn't happen. The fact that the mouth wasn't wide open is proof enough that that was a dummy that had a fixed lower jaw.

Posted by: Withheld at May 16, 2004 09:32 PM

Regarding the bullet proof vests, They are no way american vests, they are 2nd had army surplus russian spetznatz vests. note the 3 verticle lines of plates on the vest. American vests are not that style at all....

Posted by: Dave at May 16, 2004 09:42 PM

Regarding my earlier observation that the lower jaw was fixed and that therefore it must have been a dummy, I must correct myself. It may have been that he was killed earlier and beheaded later when rigor mortis had set in and the jaw had already become rigid. This is a more likely explanation that would explain the fact that there was a discrepancy of the recorded time when the letter was being read and the time of the actual beheading and the fact that the blood dripping out of the head seems thick as if it had already started to clot and not fluid and runny as the blood of somebody who had just been killed should look.

Posted by: Withheld at May 16, 2004 09:54 PM

Eh I might be hearing things but when I play it at 13:46:28 in Windows media and put it in slow speed. I hear the word in an American accent saying, “How old are you Mac” “How old are you now”.

Try it and tell me what you hear?

Posted by: deathall at May 16, 2004 10:01 PM

Did anyone else notice that Berg did not move at all as they were about to go to his neck with a knife? I could understand this if it was one big slice and off with his head. But it was slow and very painful. You'd think he'd be fighting to the death as soon as the knife touched his neck. It's just instinctual.

Thanks!

Posted by: TG73 at May 16, 2004 10:24 PM

This obviously shows that some questions must be addressed, but the one question you really have to ask yourself is, are they ever really going to give you the truth?

Do an autopsy on the body, search it for clues and dna and the works, like they're going to give anything but tampered and fraudulant results to the public.

how many pepole were on here saying "We have to support or government since it is what we chose", to you I ask how you exactly enjoy living in such an ignorant existance your entire life and you are the type of person that allows them to get away with actions like these. If the hood of your car is on fire are you going to keep driving it since you've already paid for it?

There is something obviously going on here, but sadly we will probably never know what it is and it pains me even more to realize the amount of people in america who don't want to know and live blissfully in their ignorance and use 9/11 as a security blanket for the poor actions of their government and a means to seek retribution among the undeserving.

Posted by: Infrared at May 16, 2004 10:29 PM

ITS TRUE!!! I went over the video clip! 13:26:28 (beheading scene) "HOW OLD ARE U MAC! HOW OLD ARE YOU NOW?" check it out yourself!

Posted by: PlayDoh at May 16, 2004 10:36 PM

No bullet-proof vests on those men, they's AK-47 ammo clips.

Posted by: Xuma Cien at May 16, 2004 10:37 PM

yea that's been established a few times.

thanks tips

Posted by: Infrared at May 16, 2004 10:38 PM

the states are the biggest jokers. they let you see what they want. if you knew the truth about shit you would be ashamed to be one!

Posted by: justice at May 16, 2004 10:43 PM

an american i mean!

Posted by: justice at May 16, 2004 10:44 PM

Call me crazy, but for all of you asserting that this can't be an Arab terrorist because he is wearing a ring, I would point you to the Daniel Perl photo at the beginning of this article. There is a gold band on the hand of the Arab terrorist holding the gun . . . or am I really just seeing things?

Posted by: Melmo at May 16, 2004 10:51 PM

how about you read what has already been posted so you may give some NEW information/insight

Posted by: Infrared at May 16, 2004 10:54 PM

has anyone else checked out that part of the clip 13:46:28 listen slowly and carefully at the western voice

Posted by: PlayDoh at May 16, 2004 11:02 PM

Hello anybody home?????

Nick Berg was never in Abu Ghraib prison!!!!!!!
He was in a prison in Northern Iraq!

If that white chair is the same white chair as the one from Abu Ghraib then the terrorists are more astute than we have already seen.

They managed to INFILTRATE a US military high security prison and steal a chair. Then they would have had to drive or fly the chair to the actual prison where Berg was held.

Question: Did they steal the paint and tennis shoes from ABU Ghreib too? Why don't we just find out who had their shoes stolen and begin investigating there?

Posted by: youstupidfs at May 16, 2004 11:06 PM

did you just miss the whole point of that?
or do you even think before you post?

Posted by: Infrared at May 16, 2004 11:10 PM

How can Camera-2 have a longer time span than Camera-1?
Note: Camera-1 starts first and ends last, Camera-2 starts inside the time frame of Camera-1.

Please see Table-1, my only solution is that Camera-2 starts first.

http://www.jmdemo.us/NB/nb.php

Posted by: trap at May 16, 2004 11:12 PM

Ok well, you might want to take a closer look at the chairs,,,there are two problems with your theory.

The chair in the prison has squared arms at the end, the one nick was in has rounded sides.

Also I will assume you have never been to the ME? Those chairs are everywhere, and I mean everywhere. I have been all over the ME many times.

The "jumpsuit" well it is satin and the neck is very different from the prison suits.

My husband actually has a pair almost identical, and yes they are orange satin, just like nicks.

So you gave it a shot but so far I have seen zero evidence that this was anyone other then who they said they were.

I am a Muslim, You are not helping the ME come out of the darkages but creating conspiracy theories dear you are hurting Muslims everywhere by helping us to stay in denial of our own actions.

Posted by: Susan at May 16, 2004 11:29 PM

Hello

Posted by: George Bush at May 16, 2004 11:30 PM

DEBASER... I suspect the orange jumpsuit was done to help eaisly identify the body after placed on the side of the road.

Posted by: trap at May 16, 2004 11:32 PM

Ok...3 questions about this chair thing

1.How many Kmart's are there in Iraq where you can buy the infamous 'white platic chair'?

2.How many pictures have you seen where there's Iraqi's sitting in or being near one of these white chairs? if you've seen any, please post the link. thanks.

3. Even though it's impossible to bend one of these chairs...as someone said "the arms are bent differently" *sigh* i'm still thinking it's the same chair. What do you think?

thanks Marc for opening people's minds and getting us all thinking...not just going along with it because the government says to.

P.S.(not to offend anyone) I have an assignment for you LEARN HOW TO FACT CHECK, CORRECTALY. < I love how they typo'd when they were critisizing Marc for not checking facts..and/or "messing things up"

Posted by: not looking to get chased down by 'Loving and Hating Marc Perkel' at May 16, 2004 11:55 PM

I have watched the video several times over, before and after reading this whole website. I have taken everyone's theories into consideration and all of them can possibly be accurate, but we simply do not know.

The video was definately edited and the audio is DEFINATELY NOT consistent. I am an audio engineer and that's not what a human voice would sound likefor the follwing reasons:

1) As stated before, he would not be able to scream if his trachea was slit

2) The microphone on a videocamera alone would not be able to pick up the screams as the video displays. You would need a shotgun microphone in order to clearly make out those screams while videotaping at the angle it was shot

3) He was facing the floor most of the time and sideways, so his voice wouldn't be as clearly present due to the direction of the his screams.


I agree, there wasn't enough blood present during the beheading. This could be due to soooooo many reasons. He could have been dead, drugged, etc. He also could have been beheaded, but the bloodiest parts could have been left out. As for the holding of the head by the white masked man, there is a disruption in the video's timecode. There was enough time for the other guy to step in and grab the head.

It doesn't matter who's theory is most accurate because they all are possiblities. The video is super suspicious and I myself, don't know what to think.

All I know for sure is that the video is tainted. It was edited and played around with. The audio was edited. It takes some good and costly programs to do the things that this video has produced. I know so because I work with audio for video editing on a daily basis. The editing equipment isn't cheap.

I don't know what al-queida's capabilities are. I do know that they have men that have been and possibly are in the U.S. This means they have access to taking/stealing our equipment. If they could pull of 9-11, who say's they couldn't steal a simple camera and make a copy of an editing program from the University that one of the terrorists attended? It is so easy to steal, so why wouldn't they do it to improve themselves. Anyways, they could have bought the equipment themselves. They're definately not poor, they have connections and the ability to pay for their plots.

At the same time in thinking about this, I question the U.S.'s role. I ask the same questions and I know that someone knows something about how Mr. Berg was in the custody of terrorists. The U.S. isn't going to admit a mistake in contributing to the death of someone they interrogated three times and held for 14 days, especially if it had been recent. The U.S. can't spill it's guts to the public, cuz if they do, the safety of Americans everywhere could be jeopardized even more. My father was in the military for 22 years and I know of how secrets are needed to be kept in order to protect the military's tactics.

I just hope that this madness calm down. We all have things that make us angry, we have things we don't agree with, and we have things that cause us to react. We react too much to everything, I do as well. I keep reminding myself that maybe it would be best if everyone kept to themselves and stay out of everyone else's business. Like the old saying says, "Take care of yourself before worrying about someone else."

What's done is done and what's said is said. It's time to move on and do something about what we believe in. It doesn't matter what party you belong to, Democrat, Republican, Green, etc. Stand firmly for what you believe in and do what you can in reason. Don't judge others harshly for their differences and be civil to every human being. Is that too hard to ask? Obviously it is.

Posted by: shocked at May 17, 2004 12:16 AM

I love you who ever you are!

Posted by: Agie at May 17, 2004 12:17 AM

ok i kinda thot they wear to white to be arab and look the guy in the right of the bergs pic has like some nikey kiks on thos shoes are white ive seen the hole video and its crazy cuz it looks so set up and the building looks like a place that hasnt been fucked up yet like a prison or somthingg so yahh maybe they did maybe they didnt

Posted by: Sam at May 17, 2004 12:21 AM

I have not find the alqeda linked site where the video was posted !!?? I have not seen the video, but snapshots of it... so I can not make any statement other than I feel all this thing is too strange. Yes I read all the postings, and I do believe that this thing could be manufactured, why? because the invasion has being a conspiracy, and even Powell admited the mobile labs thing. Now Zarqawi was death, and if him resurects and start to cut heads off, he got to be very angry!

Did the remains of N Berg included his head? If not, how can anybody be sure it was him?

Anyway, for all the shots I have seen of the video, I can add just one message to the US Administration; Next time, call me, I can make a better product and a very competitive prices with Seemless fussion, and more impacting effects. Delivered on VHS DVD, or VCD. Discretion and Satisfacion at your service.

Posted by: R Leon at May 17, 2004 12:29 AM

"I'm tired of the rhetoric of all this. Shut up and speak with the biggest power given to you by the greatest country on this earth. If you don't like what's going on then VOTE. But for now we have to stand behind this administration and do what we need to do to make sure that our men and women in uniform have our 100% support no matter what. The more we enable these fanatics and allow our slanted media to keep putting doubts in our heads about whose right or wrong the more serious this situation gets. We know that these terrorists are the radical minority, we know that they are capable of doing what we've seen on this video; so quit with the conspiracy theories and let's get this job done...on their turf. 9/11 proved that this world has changed dramatically and our oceans do not protect us anymore. What was seen on that video is what these radicals want to do to everyone of you and your loved ones. They will not stop until all western civilization is wiped from the face of this planet. If we stop now then before we know it that scene will played out in living rooms across America as some sick, demented radical Islamic reality TV show. Put away the bias and the hate and let's unite as a country...THE greatest country...and let's give our military and this administration our undivided support so that these thugs can be ended....NOW...while we have them on the run! GOD BLESS AMERICA!!"

Well folks it seems like someone has gone right off the deep end on his US rhetoric. As someone who comes from Canada, and continues (like the rest of this country) to hear the bs that comes from many ignorant American mouths may I remind some highlights of questioning in world history:

1. The World is round and the Sun is the centre of the Universe: WOW was society ever wrong before this theory (later to be confirmed fact) came out. Can you imagine still thinking the world is flat???

2. Louis XVI and the French Revolution: I am quite certain the French are quite content with the questioning that went on there.

3. Slavery: Ask Afro-Americans how glad they were when that was questioned.

4. Women getting the vote: What a concept, good thing that got questioned. Can you imagine 50% of the population not being allowed to vote??

5. Hitler: May I remind some people, in case you didn't know he was actually democratically elected. Good thing someone decided to question that verdict and his policies... phew...5. Nixon and Watergate: Let's sweep that under the carpet right?

6. Vietnam: Fighting for Freedom my ass!!


7. Berlin Wall: Now let's make a wall splitting Europe, cause that really makes sense when it comes to freedom.

8. Present Iraq War and US Administration: LIES MORE LIES AND THEN CAN I HAVE IT SUPER SIZED!!!

When a government constantly lies to you, you better question it. It is our duty to question our authorities and hold them accountable. Time of war and patriotism are just catch phrases used to fend off criticism. Another thing, ever wonder why Americans are so hated around the world: No it's not the great people that make up the country (because I've met a number of Americans, and travelled to the US on a number of occasions and met both sides of the fence); No it's not the fact that there are some great things in the US that have bettered helped the rest of the world (i.e. civil rights movement, WW2 involvement). Instead it's arrogant and ignorant comments like those expressed by the posting I've quoted.

As for the conspiracy theory, it's belivable to the extent that if the evidence presented by the FBI and CIA were to be presented to a court (US, Canadian, and/or International), courts would likely laugh in their face, because the facts definetly don't make sense. As for the chair thing, Marc, I think it also magically appeared here in my backyard and my neighbours. ;)

Posted by: Nick at May 17, 2004 12:43 AM

somebody wrotes: But for now we have to stand behind this administration


in germany, 1933-1945, all germans stand behind the administration

Posted by: uSSa at May 17, 2004 01:04 AM

stop US-Facism now. You Americans kills the Indians, you fucking americans slave the black people and you fire uranium at your enemys (weapons of mass destruction) and you the axes of evil, because you pain POW

Posted by: fuckGW at May 17, 2004 01:08 AM

NICK GET OVER YOURSELF NITWIT!!!!, america has become nothing but a bully and a tyrant, especially if its run by profit hungry corporations. Hahahah civil rights movement? Why did it take so long for the Black man to get his rights in America? Nevermind the native americans you all slaughtered, wow some freedom you have when it involves genocide, and the facist dictatorship you are now beginning to have.

Posted by: Path to Redemption at May 17, 2004 01:19 AM

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/16/powell.berg/index.html
May 17, 2004

.....Berg's body was found May 8 in Baghdad.
http://www.suntimes.com/output/iraq/cst-nws-iraq11.html

U.S.-run supply convoy attacked on road to Jordan


May 11, 2004

BY LOUIS MEIXLER ASSOCIATED PRESS

[.....] Meanwhile, an American civilian was found dead with signs of trauma on the corpse near a highway overpass in Baghdad, the U.S. military said Tuesday.

The man, whose identity was not released, was not connected with the U.S. military or civilian government mission in Iraq, a military spokesman said. The body was discovered Saturday. [.....]

******
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0419/turse.php
The Painful Lessons of Abu Ghraib
by Nicholas Turse
The Doctrine of Atrocity
U.S. against "them"—a tradition of institutionalized brutality
May 11th, 2004 10:00 AM
*******
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1218199,00.html
Fahrenheit 9/11 could light fire under Bush

Charlotte Higgins, arts correspondent
Monday May 17, 2004
The Guardian
********
David Valentine:
ABCs of American Interrogation: Phoenix Program, Revisited http://www.counterpunch.com/valentine05152004.html

*********
I also think it would be much easier to find the six foot five "terrorist".

Posted by: Her at May 17, 2004 01:19 AM

My gut instinct in the Post-Kennedy era indicate the fix is in. I have watched the video and became very upset, but I started questioning the source and timing. As far as I am concerned I do not know who made the video. Until I see their faces then fine. The Orange prisoner outfit, the parent's lawsuit, the release of the video, the suspected islamic website, and the video's audio are questionable. I think Nick Berg was drugged and then killed. The Audio is out of time. The fake website www.at-tawbah.com smells of a Black Op. The powers that be have billions of dollars to gain and nobody needs a human rights scandal to ruin their pot of gold. I fear the future of this country. My America reminds me of Germany and it's propaganda machine. I don't know, but 9/11 and Patriot Act are a sign of horrors to come. I fear the future and feel like moving to Canada. When I speak to people in their mid 30's and over about the video, they shut down and accept the media's version. How can the American people come to a rational judgement without viewing the entire video? The media has programmed the American public to turn away because the images are too graphic. I just watch Helter Skelter on Channel 2 and I think the images were just as graphic with the Manson Family members dipping their hands in their victims blood and writing on the wall. I say watch the video and be an adult. The American public needs to wake up and quit pretending everything will be fine. I feel America opened Pandoras Box in 1945 and continues to evolve into a tyrant much like Rome. The American public should be able to view all images coming from the Iraqi prisoner investigation. The images should not be classified to protect a criminal or criminals within the American government. I fear what is going on in Cuba with the detainees; for sure torture and perhaps death. Under the Patriot Act anyone (Americans) can be incarcerated without due process. Americans' could start disappearing. This is a scary time period. America has become an out of control machine. Yes, 9/11 was horrible, but don't let terrorism take away the America I once knew as a child. Don't let Corporate America dictate foreign policy. Who knows what is coming and when. Americans need to get their heads out of the sand and start demanding answers and access to the truth. The machine (the Constitution) needs a new engine. Yes, I say throw out the old government and start over. The current American government has forgotten the American people. America is not Haliburton or Boeing. America is land of the free, but the government's definition of free means, free to make war on anyone or anything that threatens the current administration. It's a scary time to be an American.

Posted by: Ryan at May 17, 2004 02:05 AM

Hey let's leave Wal-Mart's fantastic selection of mediocre quality garden hoses out of this...

Posted by: LOL@Merica at May 17, 2004 02:35 AM

fuckin hell how low can bush and co get if this turns out to be true america is fucked!

Posted by: ohgod at May 17, 2004 02:37 AM

I'm starting to get "hate mail" by gun hoes. I'm ignoring it. I made a mistake by blowing my fuse yesterday. I will control my emotions. For all those people that think I did not support my country le me clarify some of what I am. When the Volunteer Army started back in the 70's I vlounteered in 1975. So much for your assumptions (to assume makes and ass of u and me). I was medically discharged and am a disabled Vet. I think I supported my country and you all need not to assume I didn't like Winker Cruz wrote to me: "Yes you are sorry, it seems as if you don't support our troops or anything else they are doing out there. Fine you won't sacrifice you, yourself or others dear to you. No one really gives a shit about people like you who don't have a care or support in the world for people who are at least willing to fight for our country." He is just another example of ignorance. When I joined I could not wait to get in uniform in the greatest DISCIPLINED organization. To my surprise, the US Army was not this great disciplined organization that I thought. On the contrary, if the US Army had to run a business they would find themselves bankrupt in a few days. Now the militarey is worse because all those who initially volunteered and had half of a brain got out or took early outs/early retirements like the VIP programs offerd the past few years. By the US offering such possibilities in all the Armed Forces, those that have remained are your lower educated personel or your big ass kissers and back stabers. I have been involved with the military for over 30 years and still am 'till present. I see what goes on every day on base. I was just on base 2 hours ago. My wife also served for 14 years and got out with nothing because she could not take the absurd changes and illegal orders she was given to carry out (which she refused to do-she was not brought up on charges because the commander of the base new he was going against regulations and refused to sign his orders). She also worked in forensics and inspected many crash sites to include the Ramstein crash of the Frecce Tricolori. she knows first hand about charged bodies and so on. When I was in the Army I was a projection "expert" for all positions on Ft. Lee, Ft. Monroe, and Ft. Eustis Virginia bases and was ordered to man rotting WW2 ships with personel. These ships had no one on them but, as my superviser told me, close one eye and do it so you don't get in trouble. THAT IS CLEARLY A CONSPIRACY FOR THOSE WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN SUCH A WORD! This was going on for years, before I arrived and after. Your taxes go to supporting troops that don't exists!!!! Still want to pay taxes Mr. & Mrs. Republicans? I had a Top Secret clearance and know what I am talking about. I wasn't just a flag waver with no prior experience! I was also offerd a job in the Pentagon but refused it because the Pentagon likes to tell you who you should marry and how you should live your life (so much for fighting for freedom!) I don't care if you believe me or not. I KNOW FIRST HAND THIS IS THE TRUTH! All your "real men & women" have left the military and all you have are the perfect fighting machines of ignorant uneducated ass kissers and backstabers (and I mean soldiers that rat on one another-the lowest of lowest). I do feel sorry for those that think they are doing a just cause and get killed for it. BUT, LET'S REMEMBER PEOPLE, THIS IS NOT TH ESAME ARMY OF WW2, KOREA OR VIETNAM, THESE ARE VOLUNTEERS!!! THIS IS A BIG DIFFERENCE-PLEASE THINK THIS ONE OUT. THE US HAS THE SOLDIER WHER IT WANTS IT!! This is a tremendous point to consider these days. Of course I am making generalizations here and would say about 10% of the military still has a conscious and is honorable. If only you peopld REALLY knew hoe the military is now you would understand why so many have died just in ACCIDENTS. We flew thousands of hellicopters i the Vietnam war and no way near the ratio of hellicopter accidents we have had in Kosovo, Desrt Storm and know in this fake Iraqi Freedom war. THINK THIS POINT OUT. That is why we have military members enjoying the torture of prisoners tha by the way, HAD NO REASON TO BE IMPROSONED! This is just a small part of my background not to include dinning with American Counselets (spelling?), Secretary Ambassodors, Presidents of companies like Swift Europe, Shell Europe, Sea Land and many, many others. I've been around Mr. & Mrs. Republicans and flag wavers. My experience is not just limited to singing the Star Sp[angled Banneror watching the CIA network called CNN, NBC, CBS, FOX-or should I say Murdoch's network. I've also experienced how our great country has been prejudice so many times to our family just because we have an Italian name! I've also experienced threats from the JDL-3 against one. Your freedon is somewhat a smoke screen. Yes you have freedom of speech but believe me it is less free than most European countries at the moment! Of course, you would not know because you can't afford the freedom to travel. Yes you have freedom. The freedom to be the most violent country in the world, ta have the most rapes, gun killings, shootings in public shools, the freedom to work 3 jobs to pay your medical bills, the freedom for driveby shootings, the freedom for pedafiles, the freedom to be the most fat people and medicaly sick people in the world. You have the freedom to send your kids to school and pray they come back in one piece after school. the freedom to have crack houses. The freedom to have no retirement. The freedom to breath the worst air than any other country in the world. The freedom to be the biggest polluters of the world. the freedom to have a highly cultural program like Jerry Springer. The freedom to drink your "late" which means milk by the way. The only freedom you really have is to consume! You are consuming yourselves and now want to expand and consume other countries. Stay where you are or you will get the biggest fight you can't immagine. THIS IS THE FREEDOM YOU WANT TO EXPORT TO OTHER COUTRIES AND THEN YOU WONDER WHY THERE IS SO MUCH RESISTANCE TO YOUR GREAT FREEDOM?? WAKE UP BIG TIME. You have no idea how other countries really see the US you CocaCola nipple sucking ignorant people. I can't believe that the country that has the most freedom under the Freedom of Information Act can be so ignorant! Thank god for sites like this where the people that really care have at least a word or two! If you want to challenge me on all this then make sure it is an intelligent argument and not just some ass telling me I fucked his mother!

BERG-Let's assume the tape of real poor quality is real. That is one of the reasons you can't see so much blood because of the quality. Look at the tape at differnt magnifications (say 50%) and you will notice much blood. Yes, the time lapses through you off. So what? Someone intentionaly edited the tape this way.

Question: Why did "they" have to get a new hostage to behead when there are still 3 Italians being held (that we hear nothing about anymore) and a young US Army Soldier (who we hear nothing about)? "Terrorist" already killed one Italian, why stop and keep the other 3? If you realy wanted to piss of all the "American" people wouldn't it be so much more symbolic, and terrifying to the troops to hold up the head of a US soldier in uniform?! Why Berg? Why Berg? Why Berg? you should be asking! Who is Berg realy? So many curious reports on Berg's character by mainstream controlled media is surfacing. So many of the posted comments have surfaced on this site about Berg. Just Berg alone is enough to raise questions. I am not debating wether Berg was decapitated or not. I think that is no longer important. Someone made it so that we debate this forever to diverge more thinking? It is not going to be easy to answer that question. We do not have enough evidence besides a very poor quality video. There have been many important questions raised about this video that it has become overkill. All questions are valid. Questions lead to understanding. But, just maybe we need to search for better questions.

PLEASE, SOMEONE TELL ME YOU LOOKED FOR A COPY OF ANTHONY SAMPSON'S BOOK "THE SEVEN SISTERS!" COPYRIGHT 1975 ISBN 0-533-13940-1 BANTAM BOOKS. READ THIS BOOK!!!! For all those that think we are in Iraq for democracy reasons this book will be an eye opener, and also make you realize why your gas prices are so high.

Questio to all you flag wavers: Why did your government not give a damn about dealing with countries that did not have a democracy and now, all of a sudden want to implement a democracy in Iraq? Why didn't our government take advantage of oil prices they get from the middle east and not give a damn about the people of those countries social wlefare? Why are we not invading Saudi Arabia? Why, after all these years that Afghanistan was and is again the leader in the production of opium, has the US ignored this if you just have to "Say No" to drugs? Is it because your politicians get a bigger kick back from illegal drugs? Why did Reagan lie to us about the gun deals made with Iran (remember the famous "I don't recall" bullshit line he invented)? We haven't given a shit about the middle east for decades so long as we can get the best price on oil! Our government never gave a shit about people in the middle east living a "free democracy" and nor will they ever! Not if the price is right! Come on Rpublicans and flag wavers, be honorable to your cause! Research, read, dig deeper than your credit cards! We all know where we can get a "nickel bag" on the streets and yet our government can't stop the influx of drugs in our country?! We all know that the highjackers all came from Saudi Arabia and yet we invade Afghanistan and Iraq. You people don't support your troops! You support the conspiracy makers!! The ones that are killing your sons and saughters. And I, as a born New Yorker deplore your willingness to reamin ignorant! Please, for the sake of your own political party, BE HONORABLE AND HONEST. WHY SEND INNOCENT SOKDIERS TO GET KILLED FOR THE BIGGEST CONSPIRACY IN EXISTENCE! YOUR SENDING YOUR OWN CHILDREN TO GET KILLED FOR ONCE AGIAN THE ALMIGHTY AMERICAN DOLLAR. IS THAT ALL YOUR CHILDREN ARE WORTH?

Now the news is that Rumsfeld is the one who gave the final order to "do what you want" with the prisoners. Boy, what a guy. This guy is going to court martial lower ranking NCO's and literally get away with murder. Is this what Republican means? I son't think so.

Now we discover that the photos printed in GB are real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What realities will we discover about BERG?! Who ever got killed in that video is dead. Which ever way it happened, still that person is dead.

WHO STARTED THIS WAR ANYWAY?!! How stupid of me. It was BUSH and all those who support him!!! I hope yu can clean the blood of your hands, and sleep well at night.

You all know that the BUSH family supported Hitler until the US Government had to order grandpa BUSH to stop!

READ ANTHONY SAMPSON'S "THE SEVEN SISTERS!" i DON'T KNOW IF YU CAN FIND A COPY. IT SEEMS THE POWERS TO BE HAVE HIDDEN THIS BOOK. TRY THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS! PLEASE READ THIS BOOK, IT WILL ALSO GIVE YOUR THE ANSWER WHY SADDAM GOT PISSED OFF AT KUWAIT.

"BY 1925 the new government of Iraq reluctantly signed and agreement with the Old Turkish Petroleum Company, soon to be renamed the Iraq Petroleum Company, granting a concession until the year 2000. It decreed that the company must remain British, and its chairman a British subject, and it promised the Iraqis a royalty of four gold shillings a ton. In the original San Remo agreement there had been an important stipulation that the Iraq state should have 20 percent participation in the concession-an idea which proved to be forty years ahead of its time. But this was not included in the new agreement, which caused the resignation of two Iraqi ministers in protest. The refusal of the company to allow particiapation-except in the form of royalties-was continual cause of bitterness with Iraqis for the next four decades." This Mr. & Mrs Republicans is what was discovered in the Senate Hearings on Petroleum Resources, Washington, June 27-28, 1945!! This is but just a drop in the buckett on how we have been taking advantage of these people for nearly a century (or in vulgar terms how we have been fucking over the middle east)! Do yu see the origianl signing of the agreement? 1925!!! You want to talk about DEMOCRACY? Read the book and then talk to me! Research the Library of congress and then talk to me. If not, shut YOUR fucking mouth! GET YOU FACTS STRAIGH and then try to make an intelligent statement like "You on the other hand seem not only ethnocentric but just plain egotistical and flat out scared hiding behing your own beliefs...grow up and man up..." I didn't know that being "a man" meant beign and ignorant bastard Mr. Winker Cruz (or is that Wanker). You need to grow up and take your fucking dildo out of your ass and loose the garter belt while you're at it! By the way, how many years did you serve in the military and what was your MOS?

You can fool some of the people some of the time but, you can't fool the people all of the time - if that is how it goes.

Posted by: Vinnie at May 17, 2004 02:46 AM

Same type of chair; yellow walls; jump suit; white shoes -- Valid points. Since the CIA/FBI were holding this guy for some time, which they deny, but his relatives say he wrote to them and told them flat out that he was being held by US forces, it could be that someone "accidentally" killed him before the video was shot. Then (possibly), they could have subsequestly enacted this video in an attempt to cover up. The cover-up could also serve a dual purpose by putting the heat on a known terrorist they are pursuing.

It all adds up to: WHY HASN'T THE US GOV'T BROUGHT THESE QUESTIONS TO LIGHT AND INVESTIGATE THEM? How about news agencies - are they puppets fo the US Gov't? Why do I not see these questions brought up by them either? Reasonable questions indeed that need to be investigated and answered.

Posted by: Uncle Claw at May 17, 2004 03:29 AM

OK, this will be my last post here. Ive read enough of yer silly bickering and fighting, over things you'll never know the truth about. It's sad that those opposed to Bush and all this garbage are labelled 'anti-american' or some other B S, since it is the God given right of every American (or every HUMAN to be more precise) to question the actions of those elected to represent them. This is the foundation of (or is supposed to be) of government in america, the ability to fire the bastards (or worse) if they are blatantly breaking the law or acting out of accord with public support....this goes back to the very beginnings of America....and instead of meaningful discussion, the bush lovers ALWAYS seem to resort to brutal insults and name calling to get their point (however ignorant it may be) across.... Let me just tell everyone one thing that I think some of you have forgotten. The President does not grant me or protect my right to free speech, nor does the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marines....according to the Constitution, ALL people have these rights granted to them by God simply because they are born into this world. No Government scumbag official GIVES me or PROTECTS that right. Those rights are GOD GIVEN at birth, so how about shuttin yer yap about all this "Our troops are makin it possible for you to have the right of free speech" and etc. That's total bullshit. If a right has to be magically granted to you by the government, then it ceases to be a "right", and is more of what civics teachers call a "privilage"...My rights are my rights regardless of, and independant of ANYTHING the gov't says or does....even if i am in chains I am still free simply because it is my body that is chained not my spirit....sure i appreciate people who have the courage to put themselves in harms way (even tho they were duped into it by lies) for me and other americans...however if any one person in the army or gov't thinks that they are GIVING me the right or PROTECTING some sort of right, then theye are woefully misled. I hardly think Hussein was a threat to my rights or yours, and if you believe that he was EVER a threat to America I feel very sorry for you. Plus, had he REALLY had a nuke or a dirty bomb or whatever, WE ALL KNOW (or should) that he would have used them the moment we hinted of invasion....any of you would have done the same and you know it, so enough about Hussein being some kinda monster...Hussein was pissed about certain folks cross drilling into Iraq for oil, he bitched to the U.N., no one paid him much mind and allowed the situation to brew (intentionally im sure), the USA sold him certain nasty weaponry, and when no one would do anything about his constant complaints, he took action into his own hands....whether you agree or disagree with his actions is beside the point....US gov't creates their own monsters, then tries to act like heros by later destroying them, so as to appear the "good guys". All im saying is this, if you still believe everything Bush/Blair said about Hussein, to get the public to be afraid and support an unjust and un-necessary war, then I would suggest getting some serious mental therapy. Hell, I know SO many people who still believe Hussein did 9/11 or some other insanity like that...this was the real justification for war, America was pissed about 9/11, sought revenge, found no real outlet for revenge in Afghanistan, so therefore why not attack Hussein, we ALREADY didnt like him anyway right, so how easy it was indeed to lump him together with the supposed "terrorists" of 9/11 by suggesting he was planning on attacking us....Please people, it's as if they have some cheesy hollywood figure writing their scripts for them....and the sad part is, most people I know dont have even half the mental capacity to question fishy things....there is SO much evidence that proves to me that 9/11 was either a direct inside job, or at the VERY LEAST allowed to happen for this or that reason....there is no way it happened the way they said it did, it was far too convenient...and its not as though it shocked me when they eventually tried connecting hussein to 9/11 when they couldnt find bin laden...they couldnt just say Oh well we cant find him so we'll hold off on dropping cluster bombs on people till we find the guy...no...more like "well we havent found him, so we had better shift the blame around to others so we can continue doing whatever we want"....I blame those in power more than I blame the troops....at least the troops (most of them anyway) are dying for something they truly believe in (even if it is actually all bogus)...let's see Bush, Cheney, or any of the others, pick up a gun and fight if they want a war so much, or send THEIR kids or grandkids to go fight....never happen....So in closing, this has been great seeing so many peoples opinions stated freely (aside from the 2 or three posts of mine that someone deleted off here for whatever reason). It is the true expression of democracy when you can say what you want without fear of retribution by a gov't body....however, those out there who kiss Bush's ass so much and believe the lies spewed out by him, are ALWAYS the ones spitting the most vile wretched insults in the direction of those like myself who are simply question the government (something which is my duty as an american). It is truly YOU TYPES that dont deserve the right to do anything, and we can see what your character is by your words, and you are no better than the greedy rich fucks who kill people and blame it on others to start a war.

Posted by: John Doe at May 17, 2004 04:11 AM

is this the guy who got be headed?

Posted by: michelle at May 17, 2004 05:16 AM

This site is a load of balls. i would suggest the author goes looking for little green men or something that befits his investigative skills.
To answer his queries,

Chairs are common in Iraq
As are walls.
And floors.
Orange jumpsuit used for effect.
You can't tell if the ring is gold, and even if it was that doesn't prove he is not a Muslim.
You can't see any white people in the pictures apart from the victim.

People where shoes in Iraq.

The author of this site really seems to no nothing about Muslims or Iraq and sounds like another uninformed idiot.

Posted by: Henry Coleman at May 17, 2004 05:23 AM

"Muslims can't wear gold" That argument is moot. It is un-islamic to do what they did anyway...speaking of which, remember the muslims who went to strip clubs, got drunk, and ran planes into the twin towers? These are terrorists, they do what they please. They don't care about the Koran. Also, regarding these being Arabs, I don't think they are. I think they're chechens, who have been captured in Iraq already, and who are big into beheading prisoners and taping it. They're also lighter skinned (in reference to your fat, white Americans bs). The only conspiracy to me: seems like he was already dead when they decapitated him. Wonder if the autopsy showed any poisoning...would explaing the time jump from when he was speaking to when they beheaded him...could have been waiting for the poison to work.

Posted by: Constantine at May 17, 2004 06:09 AM

Nick Berg was deep cover CIA. He fits the 15~ year recruitment. OU was his first assignment. Tenet's mentor is the OU President. Prometheus Tower Services is a front company.

Somewhere in Langley, stone cutter is engraving the name Nick Berg into a wall below a star. G-d rest his soul and pray for the family he left behind. May G_d's light shine on them and show them peace.

Posted by: Sly at May 17, 2004 06:15 AM

The thing about AM/PM and military(?!)24 time is wrong.
In Europe the standard format is 24hrs.

Maybe they snatched the AM/PM cam from some stuuupid dead newNazi(see american)

Posted by: Lasse at May 17, 2004 06:29 AM

Has anyone found the book "The Seven Sisters?"

Posted by: Vinnie at May 17, 2004 06:39 AM

I have read through this whole page, and though some posts repeat the same info, few people have brought up the following.
First, we know from interviews and testimony of the soldiers in Bagdad, that they 'were ordered to stand there and pose' for some pics. Assuming this is true, it's not much of a stretch to believe that a 'dead' Nick Berg was also used in this way. The result of this video, has made the abuses at the Prison seem like nothing, AND has refocused the anger of Americans away from that. It is not at all beyond the realm of possibility that Nick Berg died 'somehow' and was used in this way. If they will stage a pic with a man with a leash on his neck, why not a video of a dead man with a knife at his neck???

Secondly, there are several reports that say he actually worked there in December. If Mr Berg was working on communication systems in the Prison, then maybe he witnessed something?

Third, the jumpsuit might be to conceal other signs of beatings. The military said to his parents when they told them of his death, that there were 'obvious signs of trauma' and while this COULD be that the head was missing it could also mean severe beating. Let's not forget the report of a prisoner who was beaten to death, then his body dumped in the desert.

Fourth, the beard. Nick dissapeared on April 10 .. we don't know when he died, but if it was close to when his body was reported found, then he is unaccounted for for 3 weeks. Is that three weeks growth? Could also explain the weight loss, if he was in fact in captivity somewhere and ill treated.

Fifth, the blood. I did finally go see the video. I have read many accounts of beheadings from Anne Boleyn's to comtemporary. The hockey picture presented earlier on this sight confirms the obvious. If Mr Berg was alive, there would have been gushing blood, on the wall, on the attacker and on him. I saw none to very little. My impression is that he was dead.

ALSO::: while he is sitting/propped up on the floor in front of the 'attackers', would it not have been more natural to come up behind him, hand under chin and pull the head back to cut him? Toppling him to the floor, seems clumsy, but necessary if he is already dead. Muslims do this when they sacrifice a lamb/goat. I think it makes more sense then lying him on his side, especially if one with the knife has a fake leg.??? A muslim would instinctively do it this way .. a westerner would not necessarily know this.

Sixth, the chair, walls, jumpsuit, skin colour of attackers etc .. taken seperately are merely details, but together??? I bet if Johnny Cochrane was defending the terrorist, he would find enough reasonable doubt to point the finger elsewhere and aquit. If there is no blood, you must aquit.

Seven, I am not ready to believe this is a formal CIA/FBI/Military operation but >>>> those contractors are a loose cannon .. and are in danger of being sent home in light of the abuse case. They have a vested interest in prolonging this and let's face it .. WHO THE HELL ARE THEY? For all we know, they are violent men with no allegieance to anyone/any country/anything but their paycheck. Rumsfeld has privatized the military to such an extent ( 20,000 to 30,000 last I read) that it is impossible to know who they are.

Eight, speaking of the mercenaries .. every Tom Dick and Vladimir with experience in the military is foaming at the mouth to work in Iraq. Maybe the 'russian words/non native Arabic speaker' is from left over Russian military now in Iraq working for so called security firms???

Ninth, this story about lending some stanger on a bus his laptop AND giving out his password, is just not believable. When was the last time someone asked you to do that on a plane/starbucks/park/bus? AND for this to turn out to have been an acquaintance of the so called 20th terrorist? Sounds like a TOm Clancy novel to me .. hmm didn't Tom Clancy once write a book about airplanes being highjacked and flown into buildings? And we all KNOW THAT COULD NEVER HAPPEN HUH?

Karen.

Posted by: Karen at May 17, 2004 06:52 AM

Stating that you don't believe the U.S. would take part in something like that is hilarious. Have you never read HALF of the articles that have bonafied facts pointing to government officials amidst conspiracies? Don't think just because the figureheads of the United States state everything is equal and just, that they necessarily follow that. Just remember... things are NOT always as they seem.

Posted by: Djredeye at May 17, 2004 07:16 AM

i believe that berg was beheaded in the video- i seriously doubt that the murderers were who our government claims they were-

however, karen, you bring up some good points- some of which i'd already thought of, some i hadn't (like the clumsy SIDE decapitation)

however, your post made me think of something- the orange jumpsuit.

if the narrative with berg were videoed at the prison on an earlier date, then the beheaders whould have no choice (since he identified himself in that video) but to behead him in the orange jumpsuit.

his appearance is different in those two seperate incidents.

-t-

Posted by: tam at May 17, 2004 07:26 AM

Wow, people are really getting worked up over this. While the video is disturbing, no doubt, I find it far more concerning that all those who are swaying toward a conspiracy theory are blaming the Bush admin. You guys are obviosly very idealistic to think that the President and his advisors review and approve every decision members of our government, regardless of level, make. However, that is beside the point. The idealists are jumping to conclusions before the facts are confirmed. Break it down guys.

1) Has Berg's death been confirmed by finding a body?

2) Was his body found to be headless?

3) How and where was the video found?

Most seem to be overlooking an important fact when speaking of Berg's alleged time in US custody.

4) Why was he allegedly detained in the first place?

5) Why would a jewish man go to Iraq leaving word with his family that he felt it was something he had to do?

Lets get straight on the events leading up to the recording before we try to come to conclusions. And to those waving your red flags at the Commander and Chief, saying it was staged for politics, why do you not feel the same about the prisoner abuse pics? None of you have questioned the motive behind those pics, even though we know the people involved. Are you really going to believe that our guards just like to strip prisoners naked and take pictures. Come on people, use intelligence if you have it, otherwise, leave the investigation to those chosen to do so.

I question the motive for this site. Marc, you are attentive, but you are transparent. I don't know you and don't care to, but I am extremely concerned that you are seeking the wrong result here. You have beat around the "Bush" so much that only a complete idiot would not see that your motive for this site is political. As an American and a just human being, I am unconcerned with the possible political ties to this video at this point. I am, however, hoping that the people who killed Berg are brought to justice if he was in fact murdered. That should be priority 1.

If you want to be a journalist, please be precise and complete. You have skipped too many steps in your "investigation" and ultimately, you have dangerously attempted to influence the minds of those that have been terrified by the thought of the alleged beheading, much less the visual abundance in the media. Make no mistake. I am in no way insinuating that your assumptions will be proven false. I am simply questioning your motives and your investigative skills.

To those that may read my above comments: Please be sure of the facts before you chose to believe them. Never fall victim to personal or political agendas. Those of you that review this site and begin to question the Bush admin, will hopefully read my remarks regarding the prisoner abuse pics and begin to question the opposite. That is what you must do to find the truth in anything.

Posted by: JASON at May 17, 2004 07:53 AM

Wow, people are really getting worked up over this. While the video is disturbing, no doubt, I find it far more concerning that all those who are swaying toward a conspiracy theory are blaming the Bush admin. You guys are obviosly very idealistic to think that the President and his advisors review and approve every decision members of our government, regardless of level, make. However, that is beside the point. The idealists are jumping to conclusions before the facts are confirmed. Break it down guys.

1) Has Berg's death been confirmed by finding a body?

2) Was his body found to be headless?

3) How and where was the video found?

Most seem to be overlooking an important fact when speaking of Berg's alleged time in US custody.

4) Why was he allegedly detained in the first place?

5) Why would a jewish man go to Iraq leaving word with his family that he felt it was something he had to do?

Lets get straight on the events leading up to the recording before we try to come to conclusions. And to those waving your red flags at the Commander and Chief, saying it was staged for politics, why do you not feel the same about the prisoner abuse pics? None of you have questioned the motive behind those pics, even though we know the people involved. Are you really going to believe that our guards just like to strip prisoners naked and take pictures. Come on people, use intelligence if you have it, otherwise, leave the investigation to those chosen to do so.

I question the motive for this site. Marc, you are attentive, but you are transparent. I don't know you and don't care to, but I am extremely concerned that you are seeking the wrong result here. You have beat around the "Bush" so much that only a complete idiot would not see that your motive for this site is political. As an American and a just human being, I am unconcerned with the possible political ties to this video at this point. I am, however, hoping that the people who killed Berg are brought to justice if he was in fact murdered. That should be priority 1.

If you want to be a journalist, please be precise and complete. You have skipped too many steps in your "investigation" and ultimately, you have dangerously attempted to influence the minds of those that have been terrified by the thought of the alleged beheading, much less the visual abundance in the media. Make no mistake. I am in no way insinuating that your assumptions will be proven false. I am simply questioning your motives and your investigative skills.

To those that may read my above comments: Please be sure of the facts before you chose to believe them. Never fall victim to personal or political agendas. Those of you that review this site and begin to question the Bush admin, will hopefully read my remarks regarding the prisoner abuse pics and begin to question the opposite. That is what you must do to find the truth in anything.

Posted by: JASON at May 17, 2004 07:53 AM

Wow that's a lot of comments, thought i would add another

Posted by: jakcy yip at May 17, 2004 07:57 AM

This site is full of half-baked ideas and quackery... The chair is cheap, and can be found anywhere in the world... if it was intentionally made to look like the prison, it was probably because the terrorists were trying to make a mockery of the prison abuse scandal...the walls, like a lot of walls in any desert in the world, are made of materials that are nearby that will reflect heat... the jumpsuit.. could be bought elsewhere... or maybe he was still wearing it when the released him from the real interrogation and short stay in a similar type prison... I believe he was en route to finding a way out of Iraq shortly after being released from interogation when the terrorists nabbed him... which probably explains the jumpsuit... ?

Posted by: Jeff at May 17, 2004 08:10 AM

After reading this article I have come to a horrifying conclusion. It seems that right under my nose my parents have been running the prisons in Iraq and may have killed Berg. I've always felt that my parents were kind hearted people, but I cannot ignore the fact that my parents actually own FIVE of those exact same white plastic chairs and that recently I noticde there were only four on their back patio. Also, that color yellow matches the color of the walls in their laundry room.

Posted by: DanTheMan at May 17, 2004 08:21 AM

Jeff ??? huh ???

you say: the jumpsuit.. could be bought elsewhere... or maybe he was still wearing it when the released him from the real interrogation and short stay in a similar type prison... I believe he was en route to finding a way out of Iraq shortly after being released from interogation when the terrorists nabbed him... which probably explains the jumpsuit... ?

HOW DOES IT EXPLAIN IT? he was released from Jail by the usa WEARING it, and then he wore it for the next three days? NOBODY NOTICED THAT ??? All that explains, Jeff, is that you are not thinking of facts, just desperate to make a fact fit a theory. Which this doesn't

AS FOR: trying to emulate the abuse of the prison and that is why they used that type of chair? WHY would they try to emulate the abuse pictures? If they wanted to do that, Mr Berg wouldn't be wearing an orange suit, I would think if they were trying to do that .. Mr Berg would have been NAKED.


Posted by: Karen at May 17, 2004 08:39 AM

It is interesting, but his observations are wrong.

First of all, I have the same chair in my back yard. If we followed his
line of reasoning then I am also a fat CIA operative.

The outfit Berg is wearing is not an orange jumpsuit. My guess is that
it's some sort of ceremonial garb that he's wearing for his execution.
Orange jumpsuits aren't made out of satin.

The terrorists aren't wearing bullet proof vests, those are soviet style
ammo pouches that are worn across the chest, rather than on a belt
around the waist. This is standard issue military gear in China and the
former soviet union.
http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/posts/10.html

How the hell does this guy know what real terrorists look like? The
Muslim religion is one of the largest in the world. Apparently this guy
thinks that terrorists are easily recognized by their thin brown hands
and good fashion sense.

No blood: Well, I watched the video too, and no, there wasn't much in
the way of Hollywood special effects but Nick Berg was most certainly
alive and aware of what was going on the whole time the terrorists were
sawing off his head with a butcher knife. If anyone is really interested
in seeing blood, you have to wait till the end of the video when the
terrorists hold Nick Berg's head up in the air.

The gold ring: There is NOT A WORD IN THE QURAN which prohibits anyone
(male or female) from wearing gold or silk (I find it interesting that
Nick Berg appears to be wearing satin or perhaps silk in the execution
video).
22:23. Allah will admit those who believe and work righteous deeds, to
Gardens beneath which rivers flow: they shall be adorned therein with
bracelets of gold and pearls; and their garments there will be of silk.

Personally, I find Marc Perkel's opinions to be poorly thought out, highly uninformed and repulsive.

Jordan

Posted by: Jordan at May 17, 2004 08:51 AM

No Blood? - Holds no water in the video as shown. Since a sawing motion with a large knife, rather than a peri-lateral cut (such that a guillotine, saber, katana or large axe might make), the jugular was probably severed first allowing the victim to continue screaming but causing the vein to retract back into the thoracic wall where the muscles would contract around it holding it in place and bleeding within with the excess spilling down the body beneath the garb. Saw that OFTEN when Colombian and Guerilla forces would execute some poor schmuck to make a point to the indians.

Gold Ring? - I find this difficult to beleive since I've served with numerous Muslim soldiers over the years and ALL but one wore a gold wedding band and most wore a WHOLE lot more than that on their time off...

The Tape was Edited? - Since the quality of the video was taken off the internet, we are NOT seeing the original formatting. The pixelation and such reminds me of video phone telecasts sent to networks from front line reporters. So I can't really give an opinion on the tech value.

Why cover his face and then give his name? - I feel that just have a real penchant for the old west outlaw/Ottoman assassini look. It looks sinister and implies "anybody" could get cha, I suppose. That's my take, anyway. Zarqawi is the biggest name out there. Why not use it for intimidation and/or propoganda purposes? "See me? You Americans not only can't catch me, I'm doing this crap right under your noses."

Political Timing and Motives? - My experience with terrorists, guerillas and bandits shows most of the ground field actions like this are NOT very well thought out and could have frankly gone either way for these monsters. I don't think Bush, especially, is much up for "wagging the dog". However, I've come to find in my present dealings with political liberals that they have come to have the "thief/liar mentalilty" ...i.e. "If WE do it, then THEY must do it also."

The CIA couldn't be that stupid? - This is merely an inflamatory (rhetorical at best) taunt and doesn't warrant any true analysis, much less rebuttal. However, having worked with the CIA (and YES, they CAN be pretty dang stupid) this is NOT in their operations genre or "make-up", nor does it apply to the general M.O. of what I've seen and heard of their "wet" work. They may omit things but they rarely are pro-active in actions that could possibly be drawn back to them so easily as your surmise.

Orange 'Prison' Garb? - What this guy considers to be his "strongest" argument, I find to be his weakest. I KNOW quite well what orange prison garb looks like and even in that fuzzy video, this ISN'T one of those. It looks like a shiny satin-like pajama cut garment, unlike the either 100% cotton or cotton polyester mix of a prison jumpsuit. Also, the cut is quite a bit different than the jumpsuits are.

The Chair - ALL the plastic chairs you see ARE the same. Why wouldn't they be?!! They are made in asia just like the cheap crap you buy at Wal Mart. They are ALREADY in Iraq and had been there a LONG time. We had TONS of them while I was stationed in the Sinai. I also saw them everywhere in the Gaza strip and in Beirut when I visited. If those peasants could have them in abundance then why in the heck wouldn't they have them all over prosperous Bagdad?!! If you watch news videos on TV you'll see all sorts of plastic furniture being used by even the poorest merchants simply BECAUSE they are poor. Where are you going to get the wood to make a wooden chair?

Is it Zarqawi with a prosthetic leg? - I wouldn't know...we have a guy here where I now work who lost his leg just last year and unless he's going up stairs or has to pivot to his 'bad' side, you'd certainly never know it!

I would say debate ranks right up there with the highly vaunted Mexican Air Force (who would have EVER guessed they even HAD an Air Force) releasing "official" pictures of UFO's without thinking the whole thing out or doing much research.

Ya'll Pass a Real Good Time!

Cajun Art in SC
Retired US Army - SF Medic & Airborne Infantry
Hoowah!

Posted by: Art SC/US Army SF Retired at May 17, 2004 08:57 AM

Was Berg's body clothed when they found it?

Regarding the "lily-white" skin tones, the guy holding Nick Berg from behind when they're cutting off his head is pretty dark-skinned, and they all seem to be darker-skinned than Berg, even if they seem pale for arabs. But it's not like all Arabs are dark-skinned. This guy sure isn't: http://www.transnational.org/bilder2/iraqpics/baath_leader.jpg How dark is al-Zarqawi? How tall is he? Was the news of his death and artificial leg bad intel? After all, it was assumed that he was killed in an attack because he couldn't move fast enough to escape because of his artificial leg. Don't know if they found a body. If he actually has two legs, maybe he escaped after all.

Since it seems that the speech was being played and that the "reader" is following along by flipping pages back and forth, if all of the chanting etc. was dubbed in as well, the video would have looked much less convincing if nobody was moving their lips - hence the masks.

By the way, does it look like Nick Berg is grimacing when they bring the knife to his throat in close-up? It could just be a trick of the light, though, because I'm pretty sure he was dead before that point.

I'm not convinced that there's some kind of conspiracy (although I'm not discounting it either, since there are a lot of fishy things in the video, and the circumstances surrounding Nick Berg).

It's possible that the beheading was staged to strike more fear into the hearts of foreign civilians in Iraq, as being decapitated alive as opposed to being poisoned is a much more frightening prospect.

It could be that Nick Berg was killed before being decapitated because whoever killed him didn't want blood (evidence) all over the place (which would work whether or not the killers were CIA or terrorists).

Maybe the terrorists are getting desperate, which would account for the timing.

Posted by: MadBlue at May 17, 2004 08:59 AM

By the way. It was a liberal Canadian friend of mine who asked me to comment on your statements and base MY comments and analysis on my past medical, military and general geo-political experience.

Hope my previous post was helpful to you all.

Ya'll Pass a Good Time!

Art SC

Posted by: Art SC at May 17, 2004 09:00 AM

Hmm, anyone else notice the comments by cybercat?

"The lack of blood from the cutting of the neck seemed strangest of all and I should know as I've witnessed the traumatic severing of a person's head from their body in the past and the heart driven by masses of adrenalin through fear pumps the stuff all over the place. Perhaps, he was comatose before they killed him by drugging? Again it's hard to speculate but it seems very, very strange."

Where did you witness the severing a human head from the body? I've seen executions on Death Row and that's rare. But a live beheading? Where would the average person witness this?

Posted by: Loving and Hating Mark Perkel at May 17, 2004 09:21 AM

I have some knowledge of the military most of you do not have. you'll just have to trust me on that.

but look at the posture of the guys who killed berg. and look at how they hold their weapons. note the way the have their fingers off of the triggers in the video. first thing you learn is to not have a finger on the trigger when around friendlies and to not sweep heads at all. look at how they stand and how they have to really fight to look chaotic and unorganized like they have to forget alot of training and discipline.

this all caught my eye right away.

Posted by: mike at May 17, 2004 09:22 AM

Some of the people here are blind enough to tell something that has already been stated hundreds of times (the chair thing comes to mind).
If you would READ some stuff before directly voicing your opinion, you'd save some people's time.

*sigh*

Also... Disregard the "arguable" or "bad" evidences like the chair, the bullet proof vests, the ring etc...

There are still things that are getting overseen by the people claiming all of this is bullshit.

-The non matching voices thing
-The fact the terrorists are WHITE (regardless of whether they're fat or not)
-The fact that guy is wearing a mask while telling people who he is
-etc... (just check what some other people said here)

Hmm, that's it.

Posted by: Stifu at May 17, 2004 09:27 AM

Are we allowed to stand behind and question our government at the same time?
http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_inganamort_123102_irrational.html

I agree, the chair and the shoes may proove nothing. The ring and the lack of blood are still kinda iffy, although I would think there should be a lot more blood dripping off the head for at least several more minutes after the decap.

Ever wonder why all the "official stories" always come from the same "official sources"?

I feel everyone should take an investigative approach towards this issue and not be in denial by saying "Why would our government do this?"

There are still plenty of unanswered questions here.

I'm proud to be an American but that doesn't mean I'm supposed to trust our government and believe everything they say. I love this country because of its people. But, although I know I have every right to do so, I still feel uneasy about flying my flag at times. Hear me out here... reason is, it sometimes feels like I don't deserve to fly my flag because I did not serve in the military. I have strong convictions about this and wouldn't want to cheapen it in any way. Again, mixed feelings.

I also wouldn't trust Al Quaeda either, I mean from what I gather these people can probably never be civilised, trying to do so would be like trying to domesticate a wild animal. Yeah, you may be able to approach them, get them to eat off your hands one minute, but they'll be sure to rip you to shreads the next.

Still, as far as this Berg video goes, there is still not enough evidence that convinces me these are Arabs behind those masks. The evidence fails to prove these are Arabs beyond the shadow of a doubt. Heck even O.J. got off free because the prosecution failed to convince the jury.

Someone mentioned early on that one of the five happened to at some point scratch his ass. I wanted to see for myself which hand was used, so I watched the clip again this morning. That's when I noticed something even more interesting.
THE PERSON FLIPPING THROUGH THE PAGES AT ONE POINT HAPPENS TO LICK HIS FINGERS, ... WITH HIS LEFT HAND!

To me, as funny as it may seem, this is big because everyone I know that's been to that part of the world have told me that Arabs eat with their right and wipe with their left.

I would think such a person would subconsciously refrain from ever having his left hand come in contact with his mouth, so what gives here?

Keep in mind, this is a totally different culture so I don't want to hear this is adburd because this IS a big clue.

Posted by: Alxandro at May 17, 2004 09:42 AM

Karen, TOUCHE! Thank you for coming up with a logical argument. I had begun to think I had entered the 'Twilight" zone. Your post was a breath of fresh air.

Jason goes on and on about how Marc failed as a Journalist. I guess I missed something. Silly me, I thought the whole idea was to get US to discuss what we thought.

Actually, there are a few other people on here who ARE discussing this rationally. The rest can't seem to get off the chair and the orange jumpsuit.

To those of you who are guilty, ALL CAPS, is considered to be shouting and considered rude. And, Repeating what others have posted, over, and over, and over,.... is just using up bandwidth and proves you haven't the intelligence to come up with anything on your own.

We will all agree that the Arabs could have a white chair. GOT THAT? As to the jumpsuit, reread Karen's post above. Think about it.

Now, I finally forced myself to watch the video. Al-Zarqawi is a Jordanian. Jordanians are dark skinned. OUR CIA has ADMITTED that most of the (so-called) Terrorists in Iraq are Arabs. Arabs are dark-skinned.

Look at the video, especially while the guy in the black hood is holding and cutting Berg. My gosh, the guy is lighter skinned than Berg. Look at his hands. Watch the hands of the two guys to HIS left? Hmmmm. WHITE hands. The guy at the other end? WHITE hands.

Now, Jason, Your 'questions' have all been answered long ago. You really need to pay more attention. None of your questions, by the way, contribute to the questions Marc asked. Did you know you can start your own web-site? Then we could all go and insult YOU.

Jordan you might also consider the same option.


Posted by: Rebecka at May 17, 2004 09:58 AM

Has anyone analyzed the other videos that were released of hostages? The Italians, the new one with Russians, the Japanese, the US soldiers; do these videos bring to light more complications such as gold rings, the placement of the hands on a weapon, the uniforms, etc?

I have a feeling the elasticity of the white chair applies to all videos allegedly coming out of Iraq.

Posted by: Loving and Hating Mark Perkel at May 17, 2004 09:59 AM

I just listened, if you have the clip listen again at 13:46:28. It does sound to be american and it does sound like "how old are you now" or something like that. This is easy to hear.

Posted by: ... at May 17, 2004 09:59 AM

I was shocked by the chair being the same. Especially in cunjunction with the walls. But these comments about the chair not meaning anything are pretty damn funny. It makes wonder if perhaps they're right. At least about that particular point. But they're are too many other things that don't add up in general. The whole video and circumstances in which it was presented are just too phishy.

Posted by: Patrick Nielsen at May 17, 2004 10:00 AM

so, the question we have to ask is why was this made so obvious...like my husband said, this is just TOO obvious...

look for a more expanded objective...hum...

Posted by: anyone at May 17, 2004 10:07 AM

Berg was deep cover CIA. Promethues Tower Services was nothing more than a front for SIGINT ops. Berg was recruited and his first assignment was SIGINT on the 20th hijacker, a bit unknown to Nick at the time.

Posted by: Sly at May 17, 2004 10:16 AM

Here a couple photos from the video released of Keith Maupin, a US soldier still reported as a hostage.

Photo 1
http://www.wcpo.com/news/2004/local/04/16/maupin/maupin5.jpg
Photo 2
http://www.wcpo.com/news/2004/local/04/16/maupin/maupin4.jpg
Photo 3
http://www.wcpo.com/news/2004/local/04/16/maupin/maupin3.jpg

In the first two photos it looks like the masked people have roughly the same complexion as those in the Berg video. Those furthest to the right of the image have the most pale skin.

Posted by: Loving and Hating Mark Perkel at May 17, 2004 10:22 AM

You've got my attention, though I find a lot of people here commenting that simply have NO CLUE. Including myself! How available are the white chairs in Iraq? How the hell should I know! How does ANYONE HERE know? Does anyone here have some first-hand experience?

Should there be more blood? How should I know! The only experience I have with beheading is... well none. And I see a lot of people commenting "there should be more blood!" when I question what reason they have for that. If they're anything like me, they have never witnessed a beheading, and have no clue. I have seen movies... and I know about veins and arteries. But I don't have a clue when it comes down to actual experience.

Basically, I see us as a bunch of idiots running around with very little actual information. I want to hear from people with first hand experience. Who here has witnessed a beheading and can comment on the bloodflow? Perhaps a doctor or veterans?

Who here has been to Iraq and can comment on how easy it is to find white chairs? Comparing it to how easy it is in the US is not a very good comparison :-P.

Does anyone here actually have some first-hand experience that could be useful here? I know I don't.

Posted by: Sean at May 17, 2004 10:22 AM

Well GGEEEEE Mikey G

It's always amazing when someone like YOU tells others to get an education .. you should try that, you might learn to mask that UNEDUCACTED vocabulary of yours. You used 2 slurs and 4 swear words to in 2 grammatically incorrect sentences. Is that the best you can when confronted with logic and well presented arguments? Reminds me of Bush, calling well informed people 'fantsy pants elitists' ... Bush loves people like you, MickeyG .. proud to be uneducated and willingly ignorant and dismissive of knowledge. You are his only hope to pull off his deceptive agenda. The rest of us, can read and think.

Posted by: Karen at May 17, 2004 10:34 AM

Sean: the poster "Cybercat" said that he/she had witnessed beheadings before. I took it as implying that he had seen a live one. He said he was a muslim convert so I'm guessing maybe he saw one in the Balkans or maybe Kashimir, assuming that what he had seen was on one of the battlefields around the world where Muslims are one side of the battle.

Then there is the retired Army Medic posting under the name "Art SC/US Army SF Retired". They tell us this.

"No Blood? - Holds no water in the video as shown. Since a sawing motion with a large knife, rather than a peri-lateral cut (such that a guillotine, saber, katana or large axe might make), the jugular was probably severed first allowing the victim to continue screaming but causing the vein to retract back into the thoracic wall where the muscles would contract around it holding it in place and bleeding within with the excess spilling down the body beneath the garb. Saw that OFTEN when Colombian and Guerilla forces would execute some poor schmuck to make a point to the indians."

Posted by: Loving and Hating Mark Perkel at May 17, 2004 10:37 AM

hmmmm....So much to address here i dont know where to start. First off, the chair in the video is about as generic a chair as u could possibly procur. Its fitting that it be cheap and readily available. There is a chair like that in just about every backyard. There is a guy in siberia ice fishing sitting in the exact chair right now at this exact moment. Maybe we should question him? In reference to those unimaginable bullet proof vests, the truth is, sad to say that body armour of that type seems to be more redily available to militants than it is to our own troops who are struggling to obtain them. The orange prison garb that Berg is dressed in is issued by the US government. Its the jumpsuit that was issued to him when he was detained by iraqi police, by the way if he were wearing handcuffs they would probably be american issues as well, after all we are providing much of the materials and resources to maintain these prisons. How fitting and ironic would it be for terrorists to assasinate an american while wearing the same "garb" that we have our POW's wearing? Excuse the pun but i would call that fitting. The gold ring issue is another ridiculous stretch. Islam does not promote murder. Catholics do not promote molestation either. The "allowance" of wearing gold is irrelevant. People often pick and choose what they adhere to. That would explain why murder seems to be ok and even justified by these islamists. Now onto the blood. what tape were you watching? i saw a pool of blood, a puddle of blood surrounding the area of the beheading. No blood? I am not even going to address that any further. In reference to the identity of the terrosrists, wether or not it is indeed Zarquawi is a mute point. The CIA is interested in blaming someone and to them he seems like as good a guy as any. One thing i do know is that they arent "fat americans" and the Arabic isnt bad, what is bad is the way that they yell out contrived slogans like a detour to independant thinking. They are saying generic rhettoric and simple repatative messages that are the fundamenatal design of propaganda. The only conspiracy i do lend some possible credence to is that Berg was CIA. This would be explain quite alot. As well as to clarify why he was slighly villafied and maligned by his "assocoations" with known terrosists. In doing so his possible true identity and occupation can be further deflected from the truth. I comment on all of this reluctantly because it inadvertantly defends the current administration which in my opinion has created one of the worst foreign policy blunders of the 20th century.

Posted by: penny k at May 17, 2004 10:54 AM

Karen: You do no service to analytics by pointing out the elephant in the room. Save your energy. There are about 100 posts just like Mike's in this comments section.

"The rest of us, can read and think."

This is an elitist bullshit comment. It's entirely within our democratic individual rights to do the exact opposite of what you suggest. Hell, the environmentalists read and think, but it doesn't exactly produce cogent outpouring.

PS: the least you can do is accurately quote a troll.

Posted by: Loving and Hating Mark Perkel at May 17, 2004 10:55 AM

i haven't read every post on here but I dont think anyone's mentioned Nick Berg's father said to the press that Nick was supposed to come back to America in March but the American government wouldn't let him.

Just another fact to consider.

Posted by: question authority at May 17, 2004 11:01 AM

It's great to know that there are those out there who are NOT asleep at the wheel. There's not a doubt in my mind that this was done by AMERICANS, and I AM an American, just not a brainwashed one. Funny how this happens right when Bush is embarrassed AND trying to (legitimately) win the election (this time). What a sick man he is. Thank God for this article, and others like it! Keep up the good work! :-)

Posted by: eeks at May 17, 2004 11:02 AM

I'm not surprised at any of these findings. When I first watched the news concerning the video I suspected something like this. It was so odd that our government was taking a lot of heat for the prison abuse...and then this...something just did not sit right with me.

Then when they replayed bits of the video on the news, I noticed how calm Mr. Berg looked. Too calm. The explanations are that he was in shock or didn't realize what was to come.

But as I continued to see pics of him prior to the act...he looked so much different than the different pics of Nick prior to going to Iraqi. He skin color was very "pasty" on the video pic. In fact he looks as though he is dead!

I kept thinking to myself...am I crazy...or is this staged. It looked like a bad acting job!! Very Bad. It did not appear like angry revenge.
When I saw this site I realized that I am not losing it, that there are other folks who got the same message.

The chair? Well, I think that it is uncanny that the terrorists AND our prison system all thought up a white chair for their pics. What are the odds?

When the government denied that they ever held Berg...that should have been our first clue!!
Good job.

Posted by: In the know at May 17, 2004 11:12 AM

To all the Bush lovers; I used to be a Republican, so I should be able to sympathize with you, right? NOT!

When NATO went into Kosovo, I had plenty of fodder to use against the Democrats. Since Kosovo I have learned the Democrats don't deserve all the 'honors', by a long shot.

Read this:
http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/text4-23-2003-39448.asp

Pay especial attention to the FACT that they will NOT state the age of the YOUNGEST child who is being held, just that he is UNDER 16. That the American people have ALLOWED Bush to get away with this for so long, is deplorable.

Americans had best start waking up. Each of these 'actions' just make us that many more enemies in the world. Clinton started 32 wars in his 8 years. Except for Bosnia and Kosovo, they were little 'tail-waggers'. Bush wants a piece of all that 'glory'.

The "Pentagon Papers", are a first person account by 5 (FIVE) US Presidents of how they deceived us over Vietnam.

Now, just take a look at our history of conquests, AND what it has done to the countries we conquered in the last few decades, and wonder if YOU would put up with it is a viable alternative came along.

Make no mistake. History repeats itself over and over and someone always comes along to unite the masses who are being oppressed. If you are convinced that America is too strong to ever be toppled, you are in the company of ghosts, from powerful nations that are also ghosts. Or, did you believe you were the first to believe YOUR country was indestructible? :(


Posted by: Rebecka at May 17, 2004 11:16 AM

Okay the orange suit. Look at the video again. It looks to be silk. I don't think we are putting our prisoners in silk. Also the vid wasn't clear so graphic details may be hard to see and you all need to get a life. An innocent man was killed. Bottom line. It wasn't right at all and lets not forget that 9/11 happened by gold jewlery wearing men killing thousands. Are we a bad country? I think not. I mean we should project our power. Plus look around if you want to do what is right lets start here. How many people don't even know their next door neighbors? Marc, get a life. I don't think anyone is going to get you.

Posted by: J at May 17, 2004 11:17 AM

I just stumbled on something. As ugly as it might seem you have to go and watch the video again.

1)The tape begins with a shot from one camera from Berg's left side. Berg is looking at another camera pionted straight on. Notice his right sleve position.

2)Second camera shot is straight on, Notice the right sleeve again. This proves the obvious of editing at least.

3)Now, watch the whole video without sound while Berg is supposedly sitting in front of terrorists reading statement,and KEEP YOUR EYES ON BERG'S LEFT ARM/SHOULDER AREA DOWN TO THE HIP POSITION. WATCH IT CAREFULLY. YOU WILL NOTICE THAT A LOT OF MOVEMENT OF HIS SUIT OCCURS WITHOUT HIM MOVING. THE POSITION OF HIS CREASE IN SUIT DOES A LOT OF MOVING WITHOUT HIM EVER MOVING. ALSO OBSERVE UNDER HIS BUTTOCS. A LOT OF MOVEMENT OCCURS WITHOUT HIM MOVING.

4)ALSO NOTICE THE "BLEEDING OF COLOR" FROM HIS LEFT SHOULDER OVER THE SPEAKERS PANTS. YOU NEVER GET TO SEE THE CONTINUATION OF THE SPEAKERS PANTS DOWN TO HIS FOOT! GIVEN THAT THE LIGHTING IS COMING FROM BERG'S RIGHT, HIS LEFT SHOULD BE VERY SHADOWED AND THE SPEAKERS LEG SHOULD FADE INTO BLACK AND NOT HAVE THE BLEEDING OF COLOR OF BERG'S SUIT!!

5) WATCH THE CREASE ON THE FLOOR DEPARTING FROM BERG'S LEFT HIP/BUTTOCK AREA. IT CHANGES OFTEN.

6) LOOK AT THE LIGHTING OF ALL THE "TERRORISTS." IT IS VERY HIGH SIDE LIGHTING THAT CASTS SHADOWS OF THE TERRORIST'S HEAD TO THE RIGHT OF THE MOVIE FRAME! tHIS LIGHT IS VERY HIGH AND WOULD NOT BE EFFECIENT ENOUGH TO ILLUMINATE BERG'S FACE AS IT APPEARS IN THE VIDEO!! IF THERE WERE ANOTHER LIGHT TO ILLUMINATE BERG'S FACE THERE WOULD BE FALL OFF LIGHT TO ILLUMINATE THE TERRORIST'S PANTS THAT IS NOT THERE.

THIS IS CLEARLY A SIGN OF SUPERIMPOSED IMAGES THAT DON'T QUITE MATCH!!!

8)THERE IS A 22 MINUTE LAPSE OF TIME FROM THE FIRST TAKE OF BERG'S STRAIGHT ON SHOT IN THE CHAIR TO THE NEXT SHOT OF HIM SITTING IN FRONT OF THE TERRORISTS. THE SAME CAMERA WAS USED FOR THESE SHOTS!!

THIS DOESN'T PROVE THAT BERG WAS/WAS NOT BEHEADED. BUT, THIS PROVES THAT THE VIDEO HAS BEEN EDITED OVER AND OVER AGAIN TO MAKE IT LOOK AS IT APPEARS, WHICH IS CLEARLY NOT THE CASE. THIS DEFINITELY REMINDS ME OF THE OSWALD SHOT THAT APPEARED ON NEWSPAPERS THE DAY AFTER THEY CAUGHT HIM.

I AM A PHOTOGRAPHER AND HAVE MUCH STUDIO EXPERIENCE WITH PORTRAIT LIGHTING AND GROUP LIGHTING.

THE TAPE AS IT APPEARS IS A FAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Vinnie at May 17, 2004 11:21 AM

Here is the real food for thought. The outfits of these fake terrorists are supposed to resemble the same outfits of the terrorists who were holding the other prisoner (the one who escaped). Note that the guy who escaped and found U.S. forces was not found wearing a orange jump suit. So unless Berg had desided that it would be fashionable. "I WOULD LIKE TO DRESS LIKE A PRISONER IN A WAR TORN COUNTRY". (sarcastic)

People all I can say is, that you take a government that is willing to kill it's own people when ever it suits them. (examples- WACO, Ruby Ridge, Oaklahoma City, New York City and many other times in history).

Yes I am saying that Oakahoma City was a inside job. Note the scandel in the after math.

Yes I am saying that there is a lot more to 911 then our government will ever admit to. In my personal opinion, I would say that 911 was a inside job as well.

It is apparent to the rest of the world that the U.S. government has never had a problem killing people to start wars or to pass laws that couldn't be passed by any other means.

If you look at the after math of 911, you will see that the people were willing to give up many of thier rights. Just to feel safe. Safe from what?

I don't fear muslims. Do you? Christians, Catholics, Muslims and Jews, they all worship the same god.... so whats wrong with this picture? The muslims know it. Do you? People came to America so they could worship god in thier own way with out rule form the Catholic church.

Well in the words of a talk show host who captivates the masses with his show about what would look like the way Americans live. "here's my final thought". The American public is ignorant (look up the word before you think I'm calling you stupid). They say that ignorance is bliss, and maybe thats the way many of you may want to spend your lifes. But until you take off the blinders and look around. The rich that rule the country will keep on ruling. Don't vote for grid lock. The Democrates and Republicans are no different. They grid lock the system from any real progress that would improve the lives of Americans. They have alligned themselves to keep the money in thier pockets, knowing that 50% vote for one and 50% for the other. It doesn't matter who wins. The 2 parties just continue to line their pockets with the money from the rich lobbists (much like bribing a judge, can we do that). While Americans suffer. They make war by any means and send America's youth off to die for some idea of world domination. Then they would like to pass the blame when torture is discovered, imprisoning more of America's brave men who fight a war they should never have had to fight. And kill poor MR.BERG to keep those blinders in place.

Well people I have sat on my hands long enough, so why don't you stop sitting on yours. This election vote SOMEONE ELSE! F CAREY, F BUSH. Vote for Mickey Mouse if you really wanna vote for a for a demo or a rep. It's no different but at least you'll really be able to see that Mickey is a puppet.

The idea that voting for a winner makes ya feel like a winner. Well you not a winner, we are all losers!!!!

Posted by: SRC at May 17, 2004 11:22 AM

Rebecka: I find it hilarious that a Marc Perkel site is used to sway supporters of a political party or politician away from them. Again, how many supporters of President Bush do you think read what Marc Perkel and commentators write?

The Church of Marc Perkel is essentially a a zerosum phantasm. It passes the time too.

Posted by: Loving and Hating Mark Perkel at May 17, 2004 11:27 AM

"Well in the words......to keep those blinders in place."

The one thing about that is that much of it is perfectly legal. In fact it's likely a pefect reflection of post wwii politics in the United States in each election cycle. But again, I think it's hilarious that a Marc Perkel website is being used to swing political punches. Are you expecting to find a bunch of "undecided" voters lurking around Marc Perkel?

I know the Republican party isn't coming here to lure voters. Or, maybe they are here trying to lure voters not towards Bush but away from Kerry.

Posted by: Loving and Hating Mark Perkel at May 17, 2004 11:35 AM

I just find it amusing people seem to be harping over n over n over n OVER again on stuff like the chair and walls and such, but in their posts neglect stuff like the lack of blood, a guy identifying himself yet wearing a mask, the tape inconsistency etc. Now I'm not one for conspiracy theories but seriously it feels like there's a whole lot of spooks on this page.

Posted by: Quandrus at May 17, 2004 11:46 AM

Hi just found tis entry over at http://www.worldstargazette.com

good research guys

Posted by: J. nathan at May 17, 2004 11:57 AM

has anyone ever NOT sat in one of those chairs? Gimme a show of hands

Posted by: you're so stupid at May 17, 2004 12:05 PM

Well I do half to say he has a point about the guys in masks. They do look like they are dressed up. Every terrorist video I have seen the guys are skinny and have a certain pattern. They are not necessarely all skinny people in Iraq. I have seen some big ones. As far as them hiding the interrigation techniques....please. I am a US soldier and I believe we should do watever necessary to find out what we need to. I would rather have my fellow brother next to me fighting instead of lieing dead because we did not have the proper information. Whatever the case is on the killers let someone find out. You can never hide anything forever.

Posted by: BEN at May 17, 2004 12:15 PM

I believe it's definately a conspiracy and who ever shot this terrible video had done a good job to keep people like us here guessing.

This terrible murder was shot for the sole purpose of a spin to use as a single headline for prime time television around the world, no more no less, its main aim is to distract the world population from tortures at Abu Gharib Prison and to sway the large number of descent people to accept that after all USA is better and just than the Islamists, but I believe Berg's murder will definately backfire on the murders and accomplices.

Powell is very angry that Many Arab leaders had not condemn strongly the killing of Berg by the terrorist, I will tell him why: because more 80% of Arabs and Muslims do not believe that the Islamist did it and there are two main reason for that:

1. Western Language had been spoken just before the Berg's head was held up.

2. Near the end of so called Zarqawi beheading the actual ARABIC SPEAKER was uttering Muslim Prayers "SEEKING REFUGE IN GOD" at least 3 times, Now for Muslims this is very clear that the killers are not Islamist, had they been we will never had heard that type of prayers, we would had heard only "allah U akbar" just as we did during the begening of the act on the video, Non Muslims had to understand clearly that if Islamists commit themselves to act as this video claimed, they would had done it in the name of their religion and Allah so their inner-self would be free of any guilt, they don't need any prayers as the poor onlooker (speaker) who felt terrible witnessing this terrible crime.

Posted by: ahmed at May 17, 2004 12:28 PM

Sorry, It did happen just like they say it did and just like the video shows. It doesn,t matter if Mickey Mouse was in the background.All Americans look for something,Anything when they don,t understand it..Just say a prayer for the guy and forget about it. BLAST.

Posted by: blast at May 17, 2004 12:29 PM

My two little points:
First, last time I checked Arab terrorists didnt have access to US standard issue HK5K assault weapons (primarily used by Police Swat Teams and Military Special Ops units). Kalashnikov's (AKs) are generally the middle eastern weapons of choice.
Second, am I the only one who thinks that the image of Berg sitting in front of the "terrorists" looks super-imposed, like he's not really sitting there? Photoshop?

Posted by: Me Baby at May 17, 2004 12:31 PM

has anyone else noticed that the second guy with the white mask is holding down Berg while the middle guy with the blsk mask is initially cutting...then all of a sudden at the end it is the white masked guy shown finishing the cutting and holding up the head? why and when did the black masked guy give the white masked guy the knife?

Posted by: wondering also at May 17, 2004 12:31 PM

Hey, when you're done investigating this, check out the Mexican UFOs for us, would ya!?!?

Posted by: amused at May 17, 2004 12:40 PM

Well folks I think we have killed this subject. There is no doubt-after all this-that the Berg video was intended to stir all this "brainstroming." The video as "information" has suggested has served its purose. the flaws are there but only proves we cannot prove anything except you can't trust it. All in all this site has served its purpose to examine the video and once again reinforce the feelings of mistrust in our government(s)(meaning most western hemisphere politicians). Oil and money rules and will always rule until the oil companies figure out a way to make you pay for air and solar power. I agree with "Mr./Mrs. information." We will never know the "real" story but thank god for people like us that don't take the information we are given as "the bible." I'm glad there are a lot of people out there that question. We need to continue. We need to vote and start keeping our politicians under controll more and more until they become real public servants again (if they ever were). Good luck people in the future. Please, whatever you do DON'T VOTE FOR BUSH AGAIN! HE HAS PUT US BACK A CENTURY!

Posted by: Vinnie at May 17, 2004 12:41 PM

I agree totally:

13). The video was uploaded to the web, yet the NSA and FBI can't track the upload point to the terrorists. Remember, they got the hacker who wrote the Sasser worm within days, and he was way more tech-savvy than Al-Zarqawi. The Web is watched.

Also....I agree with the person that states the family should demand an autopsy!!

Posted by: get the message out at May 17, 2004 12:45 PM

Loving and hating..., I really have no ax to grind as regards Marc Perkel. I had never heard of him until I came to this site. I have noticed that he has not resorted to personal insults and name calling in his dialog. Personally, I think insulting someone because they don't believe as I do is extremely rude.

Incidentally, I do find it sad that few Bush supporters have the gumption or 'ammo' to argue the points Marc Perkel and others have raised. Too bad we don't have a forum from Germany, circa early 1940s to compare this forum with.

A guy brings up the fact that Berg is asked a question IN ENGLISH on the tape. "Thy will be done", at the end. Lily White hands on the "Terrorists". (All of them now. Download the photos above and use the magnifying glass) Do the Bush apologists answer these? NO! They are stuck on the chair, and the jump suit.

Incidentally, go find some pictures of Guantanamo Bay prisoners. Their suits look quite shiny. Just more red than orange and some of them are long sleeved and some are half sleeved and NONE are V necked.

Someone put a great deal of the 9/11 timeline on here. You ought to reread it. If you like being duped, have at it. Not everyone can be as gullible as you. Some of us are considering the future of our children and grandchildren. Not much of a future if the leaders of this country continue to be hell bent to see how much of the rest of the world they can turn against us.

Are you seriously naive enough to believe that we don't have enough enemies right now that if a charismatic leader arose, he could not unite them all against us? You best read some history books.

You really should look into the fact that we are becoming more vulnerable by the day. Gas prices up where you are? Do you know how many American troops are scattered all over the world? Sitting ducks. Did you know that our Military has agreed that we are NOT prepared for ONE major conflict at this time. Let alone two or three.

I am almost 70 years old, and I used to think America's downfall would not happen in my lifetime. Now I am less and less sure every day. You really ought to read some history and put this all in context. AT least take the time to notice, it (History) REPEATS itself over and over, without fail.

I realize you may not like to read, so just take the events leading to the downfall of the different nations of history and compare them to what is happening with the United States right now. :(

Posted by: Rebecka at May 17, 2004 12:55 PM

Also, if you compare Berg's pics supplied by the family he had light hair and light eyebrows. Berg in the video has darker hair and dark eyebrows as well as that dark beard. It looks like a job by a bad undertaker.
Isn't the sun very strong over there? He was a white as a ghost or a corpse.

Posted by: Pass on this site at May 17, 2004 12:59 PM

Deathall, do you have a copy of the video on a medium where it can be slowed down? Thanks for any help.

Posted by: Rebecka at May 17, 2004 01:15 PM

'First of all, in my opinion, who the hell cares what we do to those rat bastards???? They'd kill you in a second! They should string em up so we can all "abuse" them. They wouldn't be prisoners if they didn't do anything. They have killed so many of our people and the men and women over there are so stress out, who could blame them for beating them???? Wouldn't you??? As for the big "conspiracy" come on! Next your gonna say 9-11 was a conspiracy by our government too.'

Maybe it was:

http://www.serendipity.li/wtc.htm

Posted by: Barry at May 17, 2004 01:24 PM

I'm just now getting started on this. I've never been big on keeping up with our shitty government but after reading all of these comments and opinions has anyone thought that maybe he and his dad had something to do with it. He was going over there in the middle of the war, for what reason again? He should've just signed up if he wanted a free trip over there. There are many clues and many suspicions stating that the video was a fake. It's written all over everything. Just have to find it. In the meantime I think we need to support our troops and keep strong for them and ourselves. If we let this get the best of us then there is no telling what this world, or the united states for that matter, will come to.

Posted by: katie at May 17, 2004 01:29 PM

For the person who posted:

"there are no major discrepancies in the timestamp of the video. In the one with the regular timestamp, the beheading starts at 2:44:41 and ends before 2:46:18 (when the head is being held up.) A total of 1m37s or less. In the one with the army timestamp, the beheading starts at 13:45:48 and ends at 13:47:47 (when the head is picked up from the floor.) A total of 1m59s.

There is a 20 second difference between the cameras, not 11 hours like some has suggested. Although I have no explanation for this"

You need to brush up on your military time. 13:47 is 1:47pm not 2:47pm. Obviously two cameras are in use, one is not set correctly and one is set to MILITARY TIME. Granted, military time may be universal but it does raise another question about whether our military was involved.

Posted by: Me Baby at May 17, 2004 01:33 PM

Hum... when i first read the story at the top of the page, i had some suspicions. I also noticed many of the grammar and spelling errors, if you are going to provide a site with conspiracy all over it, at least use a spell check, it give a bit more to your arguement and credibility. Then again many of the questions asked were addressed by other respondents, with very plausible explaination. The only questions i have are concerning the mask and what was the guy doing in Iraq to be arrested or detained by any of the departments? I have found this rather coincidental and perfect timing to cover the prinsoner abuse, funny though, i would think many here would understand the games the Democrats and the Republicans are playing here. Ever see the show, "Wag the Dog"? Funny, election year, Demos want to control everything so just so happens the prisoner abuse stuff just happens to come out and make a big dent in the political game. Wasn't the prisoner abuse present over a year ago? Then to counter, some poor open hearted person is over helping to rebuild Iraq and happens to get his head sawed off, again with elections coming up. This is a great play, who gives a rat's ass about those damn prisoners now? But also in better form as to the political game, the object wasn't to discredit the Demo but to cause their propaganda drive to loose steam and drop off. As to the conspiracy of this whole issue, well, the CIA is not as stupid as you would believe them to be to make THAT many errors. Hmm... if you look to hard at anything it is never as it seems and takes forms of whatever you put through you mind and are looking for.
Please, don't fall into anyone's game and you will have defeated their efforts.

Posted by: Boris The Spider at May 17, 2004 01:36 PM

I know someone who is part of the company that replaced the abusive one at Abu Gharib MONTHS ago. He told us when he left that it was to replace the abusive soldiers. He has been there since. The military knew about all the abuse and got rid of them. Since then the prison is run to the teeth, and none of the shit that happened before is going on now.

Why people seem to think that the prison is still being run the way it was before is beyond me. Perhaps we've gotten too use to have information right away we assume that when the pictures came out that it happened yesterday.

As far the "incredible" evidence of the prison garb. Uh, many prisoners have been released, perhaps some didn't have any clothes but the orange garb they were given so the terrorists getting them isn't hard to believe.

Then on top of the whole "terrorist wouldn't do this or that". What makes you think the terrorists are any brighter than the bush administration. AND what makes you think that they travelled with Nick in those garbs.

So why would they dress him in them? Probably because they are pissed about how muslims were treated in Abu Gharib so they put the same garb on Nick. You know symbolism, like the attack of the WTC towers.

And if it wasn't that group why would they have proudly display it on their sites?

And the case of the one legged man . . . I can somewhat give you that. Maybe, it's not who they claim it was but it doesn't mean it couldn't have been done by someone else in that terrorist group. Just because he has two legs does not make him american.

Fat and white? They're wearing sweatshirts and pants, you can't tell how fat they are. And the video is such poor quality and they are so covered that I wonder how you can tell their ethnicity and be sooo sure they are white. I mean I bet those americans are getting quite a tan being out there, it just seems to be ridiculous to assume they are fat and white. Fat is not common in the military mind you, you are required to stay in shape though some people are naturally bulky, it isn't a majority.

This was a good laugh so thanks. BTW I hate Bush, and will be voting against him so don't assume that just because I support the new troops at the prison that it's because I'm a blind conservative. I'm also not a blind conspiracy nut liberal.

Posted by: Iris at May 17, 2004 01:54 PM

Does Iraq have different time zones?

And one camera came from a different time zone?

Posted by: Lacey at May 17, 2004 01:59 PM

I think its obvious we (america) chopped that dudes head off. He refused to recycle though, so he had it comin!

Posted by: Ikabod Crane at May 17, 2004 02:30 PM

[b]>>>>smokey:[/b] Your explanation for the lack of blood isn't very sound. Regardless of how Nick Berg was being held, blood pressure in a major artery like the carotid artery is considerable and would create a spray of blood when severed. The person doing the damage with the knife would assuredly be covered with his victim's blood. Blood does not "leak" from such a major artery.

I haven't seen the video, so I cannot comment on the angle of viewing and if one of the terrorists was blocking the view of the beheading at any time. Regardless of who is behind the masks, I think it is a valid supposition that Nick Berg was dead prior to his beheading. In my opinion, it seems likely that the terrorists wanted to present a live beheading on tape to garner the maximum horror from those viewing the video. However, they knew decapitating him in that manner would be messy and filled with struggle from their victim and illustrating a lack of control on their part. What better way to manipulate the final product than to kill their victim first, behead him and then edit the tape to make it appear as if it was a live beheading. It explains the difference in the video time stamp and the lack of blood.

>>>>shocked: Perhaps because you work with professional equipment you aren't aware that some of the over-the-counter video cameras allow you to dub audio. My little DV cam does. Edit the whole thing on a VCR, dump it back onto the videocam tape, dub the audio in and there you have the end product. The poor video quality would be due to equipment used and subsequent generation loss. Makes sense, don't you think?

>>>>Karen: Some valid points. As to why they didn't cut his neck from the front, perhaps they had previously worked out beforehand how they wanted the images to appear. If they cut his neck from the front, they couldn't have included his "screams" because his larynx would be cut. By cutting from the side, they could make it seem more realistic that Nick was screaming.

>>>>Art SC/US Army SF Retired: I can't believe you were a medic. You stated (quote) "the jugular was probably severed first allowing the victim to continue screaming but causing the vein to retract back into the thoracic wall where the muscles would contract around it holding it in place and bleeding within with the excess spilling down the body" (end quote) The entire statement is almost entirely inaccurate. The jugular vein would be first major vessel to but cut, since the carotid artery is in behind the jugular vein, however once it's cut it isn't going to "retract" back into the thoracic wall. Why? Two reasons. The first big reason is that the term "thoracic" refers to the chest. So any thoracic muscles are contained within the chest and not the neck. Veins are indeed surrounded by muscle in order to help squeeze the vessel and aid in blood flow. ALL veinous blood is carried from tissues and to the lungs where blood cells are reoxygenated. ALL arterial blood is carried from the lungs to the heart and then on to the tissues which receive, amongst other things, necessary oxygen. Artery walls contain elastin which, as its name suggests, is a substance with elastic qualities. This contributes to the pressure needed to push the blood to the tissues from the heart. But getting back to the inaccuracies of your statement, once severed, a major vein like the jugular isn't going to snap back into place where surrounding muscle would contract. If the vein is severed, so is the surrounding muscle! The jugular isn't the vessel that would create a spectacular spray. It is the carotid artery located behind the jugular that would cause a blood spurt once it is severed. If you were truly knowledgeable about medicine, you wouldn't have made such an inaccurate statement. Please do not perpetuate inaccuracies such as the one above.

Posted by: amorphous cloud at May 17, 2004 02:32 PM

Being the anal-retentive individual that I can be... ;) I noticed some typos in my statement which I wanted to correct. So, the following is my amended post.

>>>>smokey: Your explanation for the lack of blood isn't very sound. Regardless of how Nick Berg was being held, blood pressure in a major artery like the carotid artery is considerable and would create a spray of blood when severed. The person doing the damage with the knife would assuredly be covered with his victim's blood. Blood does not "leak" from such a major artery.

I haven't seen the video, so I cannot comment on the angle of viewing and if one of the terrorists was blocking the view of the beheading at any time. Regardless of who is behind the masks, I think it is a valid supposition that Nick Berg was dead prior to his beheading. In my opinion, it seems likely that the terrorists wanted to present a live beheading on tape to garner the maximum horror from those viewing the video. However, they knew decapitating him in that manner would be messy and filled with struggle from their victim and illustrating a lack of control on their part. What better way to manipulate the final product than to kill their victim first, behead him and then edit the tape to make it appear as if it was a live beheading. It explains the difference in the video time stamp and the lack of blood.

>>>>shocked: Perhaps because you work with professional equipment you aren't aware that some of the over-the-counter video cameras allow you to dub audio. My little DV cam does. Edit the whole thing on a VCR, dump it back onto the videocam tape, dub the audio in and there you have the end product. The poor video quality would be due to equipment used and subsequent generation loss. Makes sense, don't you think?

>>>>Karen: Some valid points. As to why they didn't cut his neck from the front, perhaps they had previously worked out beforehand how they wanted the images to appear. If they cut his neck from the front, they couldn't have included his "screams" because his larynx would be cut. By cutting from the side, they could make it seem more realistic that Nick was screaming.

>>>>Art SC/US Army SF Retired: I can't believe you were a medic. You stated (quote) "the jugular was probably severed first allowing the victim to continue screaming but causing the vein to retract back into the thoracic wall where the muscles would contract around it holding it in place and bleeding within with the excess spilling down the body" (end quote) Your statement is almost entirely inaccurate. The jugular vein would be first major vessel to be cut, since the carotid artery is in behind the jugular vein, however once it's cut it isn't going to "retract" back into the thoracic wall. Why? Two reasons. The first big reason is that the term "thoracic" refers to the chest. So any thoracic muscles are contained within the thorax and not the neck. Veins are indeed surrounded by muscle in order to help squeeze the vessel and aid in blood flow. ALL veinous blood is carried from tissues and to the lungs where blood cells are reoxygenated. ALL arterial blood is carried from the lungs to the heart and then on to the tissues which receive, amongst other things, necessary oxygen. Artery walls contain elastin which, as its name suggests, is a substance with elastic qualities. This contributes to the pressure needed to push the blood to the tissues from the heart. But getting back to the inaccuracies of your statement, once severed, a major vein like the jugular isn't going to snap back into place where surrounding muscle would contract. If the vein is severed, so is the surrounding muscle! The jugular isn't the vessel that would create a spectacular spray. It is the carotid artery located behind the jugular that would cause a blood spurt once it is severed. If you were truly knowledgeable about medicine, you wouldn't have made such an inaccurate statement. Please do not perpetuate inaccuracies such as the one above.

Posted by: amorphous cloud at May 17, 2004 02:38 PM

"Incidentally, go find some pictures of Guantanamo Bay prisoners. Their suits look quite shiny. Just more red than orange and some of them are long sleeved and some are half sleeved and NONE are V necked. "

ERROR

look at the pic of the iraqi guy held by two soldiers. is it me or is that a vneck?

Posted by: CHIKEN at May 17, 2004 02:47 PM

"Incidentally, go find some pictures of Guantanamo Bay prisoners. Their suits look quite shiny. Just more red than orange and some of them are long sleeved and some are half sleeved and NONE are V necked. "

ERROR

look at the pic of the iraqi guy held by two soldiers. is it me or is that a vneck?

Posted by: CHIKEN at May 17, 2004 02:47 PM

at the end all of us know that terrorism is made by U.S.A and they are the ones that kill.

Posted by: bla bla at May 17, 2004 02:49 PM

Rebecka, I was waiting for a response to my comments from someone like you. First of all, read them again. Just stop your typing for a minute and read them. My questions were a suggestive startpoint for the "investigator." My comments (@7:53 am for those following)were not insults as you perceive, but advice to anyone reviewing the facts on this issue. You and many others have automatically jumped on the bushwhacker bandwagon and have not a clue as to the underlying agendas or the lack there of behind this video. Like Marc, you are unintelligent and transparent. You are trying so hard to be important that you have submitted the most comments of anyone. All of which clearly indicate that you have nothing better to do than bash people with your typing. If you seriosly are a 70 yr old woman, it explains a lot. You are senile and your intellect has obviously left you. This country is at war. We can discuss the possible hidden reasons later, but for now, shut up and support our troops. As for your accusations toward the CIA and the black ops, ask yourself a question. Where you there? Have you seen or touched any tangible evidence? You are so stuck on this video, but you have no concern with actual facts, which you and I will never have. Your aging mind has failed you. You completely misinterpreted my comments. I spoke only regarding the lack of a complete investigation by Marc prior to releasing propaganda in attempt to falsly persuade those suffering from incompetence such as yourself. You will acheive nothing for your excessive time spent submitting comments to this site. You know and have seen nothing real or clear that would indicate the identity of those responsible for the video or death. Rather, you have seen a series of ironies and discrepancies and have prematurely concluded that the CIA and the president of the United States is responsible with no real link. Unbelievable. It must take a hell of an imagination to come up with that, but wait, you didn't! You don't have any original ideas or beliefs. You have come to this site to sound intelligent and important, but not once have you answered or asked any questions on your own. You have simply rambled on all day about who's involved, but the only evidence you have is a downloaded, distorted video.

To you Rebecka and all those that agree with you: I am a proud supporter of our President and our troops. I am proud to be a member of this country, and while I admit that I am no CIA agent or history major, I can think for myself and I have the intelligence to distinguish between right and wrong. I never said the video is fake, or that the government is untainted. I merely questioned how Marc came to these conclusions before a real and complete investigaiton was performed. I am taking no one's side or favoring a party. I favor only the truth which you lack, so stop flooding this site with your bullshit and start thinking for yourself!

Don't bother responding either. Everyone that's read this site has seen your endless rambling, witnessed your lack of real, tangible facts and has been overcome by your abundance of bullshit. Your words are filled with nothing and YOU are nothing!

Posted by: JASON at May 17, 2004 02:58 PM

I still say I've had a harder time cutting through a chicken wing than they appeard to have merely cutting, not chopping, through Berg's neck. Go saw through one with a non serrated knife and get back to me.

Posted by: Joe at May 17, 2004 03:14 PM

I think it is very odd of all of the alike things that you pointed out. As an american I hope that they are not true espically after my own family has gone to fight this war. And if it is true then I do hope that someone gets to the bottom of this and finds out who did it and why.

Posted by: Debbie at May 17, 2004 03:38 PM

PSST
Those orange suits are standard garb
for all those in a jail,Nick had been in a Iraqi
jail and the day they released him is when he was taken by those bastards in black hood's,which they wear
when killing someone just like Hamas does.
As for the chair,they are out of plasticto stand up to the wear and tear they can take, also
standard use over there.
The only reason those bastards killed Nick is because he was Jewish.....


Posted by: Buffy at May 17, 2004 03:40 PM

2 more "interesting" things to check out.

At 13:46:19 and 13:46:26 a *white* hand is clearly seen in the bottom right corner of the screen. Is this the second cameraman?

Posted by: ... at May 17, 2004 03:41 PM

Another thing:

Check out when the "reader" grabs Nick by the hair, and then throws him down. Do it in slow motion or frame-by-frame. Do you see ANY reaction in his face at all? Surely if someone grabbed you by your hair from behind, you would at least grimace, or have some kind of reaction right away. It's instinctive.

Posted by: Skeptic at May 17, 2004 03:52 PM

skeptic: he does react his shoulders go straight up

Posted by: smokey at May 17, 2004 04:11 PM

omg...you erase my earlier post because you cant even admit that you are wrong. How childish. For reals, you claim to be a speaker of truth, but your worse than the ones you call liars and cheats for they hide the truth.

You are a hypocrite for erasing my earlier post, instead of having the balls to even admit that you are wrong in your assessment of this entire situation.

Parsimony.

Posted by: koji at May 17, 2004 04:42 PM

"Surely if someone grabbed you by your hair from behind, you would at least grimace, or have some kind of reaction right away. It's instinctive."

Might be a shock of situation. You don't know what is to be happen and you just lock yourself out. You could get shocked if you guess/know, that you could be executed in minutes, wouldn't you? Nuthing hurts, if you know it doesn't matter. Been there, even bought a t-shirt. Um, not really, just a pair of socks. And pasta, tasted as bad as the socks, huh?

Posted by: Truth Is Always The Simpliest at May 17, 2004 05:02 PM

If you want to slow down the video, use Elecard Mpeg2 player. It also slows down the audio, but it will be decibles lower, which could easily be fixed with pitch-shifting software. Have fun.

420

Posted by: Danklord420 at May 17, 2004 05:13 PM

1) Plastic chairs. Yes, they may be every where in the world, but
Iraq. Why? Because if we have more the an egg timer memory, we would
remember that Iraq has been under siege since the first Iraqi "war."
They have hardly been able to get in food and medicine, but yes they
have got a whole shit load of plastic chairs in, shipped in by c-110s
of course. If you have ever had one of those plastic chairs you know
that they do not last, especially in the sun, which I presume Iraq
has plenty of, so it would have had to have been shipped in recently,
but that would be rather odd also, as they have been being invaded for
the last year or so, and once again, the only thing coming in and out
is by c-110s. What does this mean? It means that the only good chairs
that would be in country, is the ones in and around Western forces. So
how did insurgents get hold of one? Somebody suggested that they were
made in country. I'd suggest that base plastic would be the last thing
they were worried about when they couldn't, once again, get either
food or medicine, not to mention even if there is a plastic company
left standing in Iraq.

2) Scream. I've yet to hear of anybody scream with their head cut half
off, except for perhaps Mr. Berg. Any scream would have had to have
been before the first stroke.

3) Prison jump suit. Agreed it is not, but still, why the trouble of
putting him in something that looked like one? I've suggested that
this might be a false flag operation, but it might also be a reverse
false flag operation. Heres a new one. What if it was done to make
both sides look bad. Now that would be a stroke of genius. And who
would benefit by another piece of psyops that had both sides at each
other's throats, both internal US, i.e. neocons and the rest and
external US, i.e. the US and the Arab World?

4) Beard. Yes he had a beard, but it was cut in the manner that the
Amish style theirs, i.e. no hair on the upper lip. What's it mean?
That he had been shaving recently before his demise. shrug

Goat!

Posted by: Goat at May 17, 2004 05:21 PM

about the ring...is it possible that there were no islamic beliefs, but it was purely political?

Posted by: mikep at May 17, 2004 05:36 PM

The writer of the article never said that the 'white plastic chair' was the end-all argument for his theory, he stated that all of these coincidences put TOGETHER, do raise a curious eye-brow.

Besides all the points above about gold rings, white lawn chairs, or edited video, the strongest evidence that this is indeed america's doing, is the fact that this video was released right after the prisoner abuse scandal. Berg's death was timed impecably.

It's not that hard to believe America's government and military is involved in a specific murder. They do it on a daily basis.

g'day.

Posted by: Malaka at May 17, 2004 06:20 PM

You people crack me up with your imagination.

First of all, the Iraqis killed this guy in retaliation for our recent quasi-abuse of Iraqi POW's (fraternal pranks at best by comparison to their treatment of American POW's). Therefore, to make their statement crystal clear for those of us who don't happen to speak Arabic, they dressed him up in prison garb similar to that which we dress up the Iraqis and placed him in a room similar to the rooms in the prison photos. Badabing, badaboom, a message easy enough for us stupid Americans to understand, except of course some of you who post ignorent messages on this site. (I'm here by chance, mispelled ignorent on pourpose and don't care to come back to read your lame-ass, truth-avoiding replies).

As for the plastic chairs, they are as cheap a chair as it gets. Of course a third-world nation where nary a person owns anything of real value, except for baathist party members, oops I mean ex-baathist party members, would have a plethora of them. If you remember back to when we just invaded (I mean liberated, been watching too much CNN!) Iraq, you may remember seeing scords (also mispelled on porpuse) of Iraqis looting and rioting. One image imblazened in my mind, no lie here, is the image of crazed Iraqis running down the streets of Baghdad with WHITE PLASTIC LAWN CHAIRS under each arm!!! I remember in particular asking my wife how poor you have to be to steal plastic lawn chairs. The answer is Iraqi-poor.

Lets see, what else, bullet proof vests. If I were a terrorist I would try my best to look as kick-ass as possible in my militant garb. If there were a bullet-proof vest lying around I would definitely put it on prior to videotaping my Horrible F'n Behavior, which I think some of you here don't seem to mind watching over and over. I can't get over the still images myself and see no reason to make myself watch the actual video. I can't afford the therapy. These terrorists want to look as sophisticated and intimidating as possible in their videos which is why they always have RPG's, assault rifles, bullet-proof vests, and any other tough-looking gear on hand. Think people!! Please use the brain before the mouth and computer.

One thing else I don't understand is how impressed you idiots are with the level of skill and coordination it took to pull off September 11, yet you don't think these terrorists (trained by the same people) can pull off this beheading. "My God, this must be conspiracy!! They couldn't have done THIS to US!" Only Americans (White Conservative Christian Males in particular) are capable of this kind of cruelty, eh? Ya'll need to get a life and stop smoking so much weed. Straighten up and watch Fox News for Gods sake!

Posted by: wise up idiots at May 17, 2004 06:21 PM

Man, before you start putting down people on this message board, why don't you try watching the full video and judging for yourself.

Even after you do that, if you still feel the same, I would certainly respect that. But to simply pass judgement on others, based on something that you've never even watched, is ridiculous.

Posted by: Skeptic at May 17, 2004 06:30 PM

I am glad that I found this site and that I am not the only person out there that believes the US is behind this. I have seen the entire video and I want to know why Berg seems so comfortable sitting there with five 'terrorists' standing behind. Wouldn't he be scared that something was about to happen? How come this video is so different than videos we have seen from Osama, who apparantly is tied in with al-Zarqawi. Those earlier videos were raw footage, and nobody covered their faces. Why would the video have the name of the killer but then he covers his face? I am scared.

Posted by: Ata at May 17, 2004 06:46 PM

This terrible beheading has actual sound effects of a woman being beheaded (or throat cut), and it starts well before Mr. Berg even sees the knife. Why was this (so poorly) added? Why were eleven minutes (obviously) missing? And why was there the lack of blood spurting all over? The only conclusion one can assuredly come to is that Mr. Berg (if that is indeed him) was already dead (possibly killed during the missing eleven minutes). Dead men don't scream. Perhaps these monsters couldn't get themselves to behead a live victim so they had to kill him first. They obviously didn't care if we noticed the major blunders. Their main objective was to terrify us, and in that, they very well succeeded!

Posted by: Starlight at May 17, 2004 06:49 PM

Hey, wise up, I have a hard time with your concept of the terrorists trying to impress me with their 'bling-bling' while beheading an american. I'm sure your retro-terrorist outfit would coordinate but I'm willing to bet real terrorists (not you) would get their equipment piece meal and they're probably not shopping at the gap. I'd also like to note that I'm not a Christian. You got the white male part right though. I guess it's a good thing I'm wearing my foil hat. (lol, schmuck)

Posted by: jd at May 17, 2004 06:55 PM

Why does the camera jump and fumble when the they go to cut his throat? If you've ever seen some of the Saddam horrors in your localy Ma & Pa Vieo stores... you will see a VERY still camera man who "pans" to the action- so as to MAKE SURE people know it is real.

Try and put yourself in Berg's exact situation... at that very moment the men jump you and brandish a knife and grab your head... if you were he, and believed in whatever faith you belived in, and KNEW at that very moment... you are going to die... would you scream? or would you say something more from the soul- like- "oh dear God...no" ???

It is pretty much a known fact, that MOST people when they die (and especially a brutal death like a beheading, electricution, mauling etc) where you are extremely stressed, will soil yourself (front and or back), I didn't see any wet spots.

I think this whole BUSH thing was a scam from the beginning... and I think Saddam is in on it (oh.. he has plenty of money- and money talks). From the time Bush got "elected" (yeah right). As we've all known, the scandals, lies, deceit in our very own government- are real.

Posted by: tangledwebweaver at May 17, 2004 06:57 PM

Well, if it was us or terrorist, it says a lot that some us think our goverment had something to do with it. No doubt ttere are some sick fucks out there and now we can tell they also run the country. Either way terrorist did this eithe United States ones or Middle Eastern. jefferon said we get the goverment we deserve. I hope everyone on this blog will vote !

Posted by: Graham at May 17, 2004 07:00 PM

"One thing else I don't understand is how impressed you idiots are with the level of skill and coordination it took to pull off September 11, yet you don't think these terrorists (trained by the same people) can pull off this beheading."

um, i'm sure the evidence was there, it was just handled and carried away by certain organizations before anyone could expose the slip ups.

Posted by: pimpinhand at May 17, 2004 07:03 PM

Fuck those Americans if they really did it....

Posted by: grayfox at May 17, 2004 07:06 PM

well you know what you should take this farether
and get so many people to look at this and get it on the news. I think that you should make a hole new website just to get the news into get a team of volinters i could be one and many other people would follow you.

Well i think that America has a right to know these things. that would aso most likly bring bush down.

Posted by: Branden Melendec at May 17, 2004 07:24 PM

Terrorist on the far left stands like a female.

Posted by: aintmensa at May 17, 2004 07:28 PM

Some how that dumbass EQ and his wife Bituna are involved, I know it.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=bituna&meta=group%3Dalt.dss.hack

Posted by: Bituna Whorley at May 17, 2004 07:30 PM

I THINK THE TORTURE PIX AND THE THE VID OF NICK BERG'S BEHEADING IS ALL PART OF A BIGGER AGENDA, ITS ALL ABOUT CREATING FEAR, AND TO THESE MALEOVELENT FORCES AKA THE COUNCIL OF FOREIGN RELATIONS, THE NSA AND CIA- FEAR IS CONTROL, FEAR BREEDS FURTHER VIOLENCE WHICH IN TURN THEY WILL USE TO JUSIFY VIOLENCE OR DISPORPORTIONATE AXTS IN THE FUTURE.

THE BIGGER AGENDA IS TO RESHAPE THE POWER STRUCTURE OF THE GLOBE, THE US IS SHIT SCARED OF LOSING ITS GRIP ON OTHER NATIONS AND THEIR RESOURCES.

Posted by: Path to Redemption at May 17, 2004 07:38 PM

Take it easy pal, don't you freakin' go blaming all Americans for the action of a possible few, we don't know either way who really did this.
The Elite Masters are controlling everything and they use the media, politics, sports and even religion to polarize the world and push their agenda. Lets say it all together, ready,.. GLO-BAL-I-ZA-TION.

It's all part of the plan for New World Order, a term first used buy Bush Sr in 1990, September 11th to be exact.
Somebody said vote?
If voting was really meant to make a difference it would have been outlawed years ago.

Don't you get it, they want us to play the game we've all been conditioned to play. Heck, I wear my Joe Schmoe goggles and play the game every day by going to work, watching the news and having a good political debate. We are told we have to vote either Republican or Democrat, I ask you, why must it be this way? There is no choice when both sides are controlled by the same puppet master, besides ever notice how political views flip-flop every 5 years or so?
It's all meant to polarize people and cause confusion.
Hell I voted for Bush last time and if I happen to be wearing my Joe Schmoe goggles in November, I may vote for him again just to give the nay-sayers the benefit of the doubt that there are no such thing as conspiracies. But everyday I get exposed to things that tell me there just may be something to these conspiracies after all.

I'm just waiting to see if indeed OBL's body will be brought out before the election, that'll do it for me.

Posted by: Alxandro at May 17, 2004 07:44 PM

Everyone is entitled to opinions, beliefs, etc. When people start to respond with outburts and attacks agaisnt other people voicing their opinions- they're no better than a terrorist. Because by definition a "Terrorist" is a person who trys to instill fear, espeically as a means of coercion... isn't that what half of us do when we have little outburst and curse and yell, scratch and bite the whole time saying, "I'm right- you're wrong- you f'n idiot!!!!" Take them (opinions) for what they're worth- pick them apart if you want to- debate them- analyze them- but for the sake of everyone who reads these postings- QUIT ACTING LIKE F(^(!S AND CALLING PEOPLE NAMES (technically I didn't call anyone a name there)! And really- if you're that OUTRAGED by the whole beheading thing where you begin to lose your head (no pun intended) and have to resort to name calling, hair pulling, finger proding, then go join the damn Army (or Navy- which ever turns you on). Look, you have your insignifant opinions and beliefs- and you know who I'm talking about- "ITC"- I have mine.

Posted by: tangledwebweaver at May 17, 2004 08:10 PM

What about the facts? (As reported by every major news source)

Berg was questioned by the FBI in 2002 for his contact with Moussaoui (the 20th hijacker on 9/11). Berg told the FBI he had met someone on a bus at a Unversity in Oklahoma, and allowed this person to use his computer, email and password. This person then allegedly gave that info to Moussaoui who was then using it. (Im not a computer expert, but since when are email addresses difficult to obtain, so much so that you have to "steal" them from people.

So, given what has been reported, this is the story as I understand it.....

Berg, an American, who had been questioned by the FBI for some level of contact with an alleged terrorist, who was allegedly involved in 9/11, was carrying a passport with an Israeli stamp in it, traveling in Iraq, with no known purpose or job, was then taken into custody by either Iraqis or US forces, and then later kidnapped by Al Qaeda terrorists and beheaded on camera.

Hmmm, thats a very intersting story.

Posted by: JSn at May 17, 2004 08:15 PM

as for the color of the floor, isn't that a carpet roll or something under his left hip and what the terrorist on the left is straddling? Me thinks they put something on the floor. I think the photographer is correct about the lighting. I have taken the time to move the photo over into photoshop and play with it. The terrorist on the left has glasses on, military issue? Not for sure. Odd glasses. Still believe that is some type of fabric underneath him covering the floor.

I have played with that orange jumpsuit. I think it is an ordinary jumpsuit, just the picture has been lightened to make it look reflective.


Posted by: aintmensa at May 17, 2004 08:19 PM

Was Berg a semetic/Sephardic Jew, or was he of Khazarian/Ashkenazi descent?

OH, someone asked about 9-11, check this out..
http://www.letsroll911.org/part2.html

Posted by: Alxandro at May 17, 2004 08:20 PM

Nichevo wrote:

"Maybe al-Zarqawi wanted the credit for his rep but couldn't do the hit because of his leg, so they used a whole man and dubbed his voice in."

then

"Perhaps they screwed something up and did a second take/used the second video. Maybe al-Zarqawi the Crip couldn't do the job right and they needed to switch to the second executioner."

Put the two together - that's what i've heard. Zarqawi got a substitute, but the substitute screwed up & made Zarqawi look bad so they did another take, somehow holding the head in position.

Posted by: hoitoider at May 17, 2004 08:26 PM

Its all american two wrongs don't make it right America.

Posted by: Mike at May 17, 2004 08:42 PM

Insn't the concept of war based on deception?

Besides.. I see the makings of a spectacular movie! I can smell an, "OSCAR"-

Posted by: tangledwebweaver at May 17, 2004 08:51 PM

Check out the guy with the supposedly military cap on who peaks his head in at end of film.

http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=227

Posted by: Soseraphic at May 17, 2004 09:20 PM

How come we must all believe what we see in the moives, internet, and in photos to be real and true? I heard one person say, "Oh.. no its true. I saw it on the web." grrrrrr! please. A picture WAS worth a thousand words when camera's FIRST came out- perhaps... but now I can put your head on anything and make it look real. If you were there and you saw the beheading FIRST HAND, than I don't envy you, but only you know the truth- everyone else just speculates and opinionates(?). Please- "If this is a consiracy, then rest assured, whoever so shall uncover the conspiracy- MUST DIE?" Wouldn't that just prove even more so that the conspiracy is true? Isn't that like killing the only witness in a murder trial. Wouldn't that just POINT the finger right back at you. Why not just let things die down and everytime we're questioned about them, ignore them and down play them as ludicrous(best understood when said in a Mike Tyson voice). But wait, let's say perhaps, we did fabricate both the video and the prison sexual abuse scandal, then the Alkadia see this and begin to think, what? What the f'n is going on? These American's are more crazy than us! Again, war is about deception, how clever are we? How deep can we get into their heads? I bet we have the ability to come up with some REAL good psy-war shit!

Posted by: tangledwebweaver at May 17, 2004 09:22 PM

You are obviously not very good at noticing things or you would have noticed that I said, "supposedly." I simply shared the link to allow you to make up your own mind. You obviously didn't even look at it, which speaks volumes in itself.

Posted by: Soseraphic at May 17, 2004 09:26 PM

Why are you calling me an anti-semite, I was only asking a question.
Inform me anyway, I want to know. I bet you'll tell me something about the distinguishable nose.
It's well known that over 90% of todays so called Jews are the descendents of the Khazars from the Caucasus mountains. This is the empire that decided to convert to Judaism hundreds of years ago, which means these are Jews by religion, not by blood so they are not true semites.
These are the same people that ever so conveniently decided to leave themselves out of the history books, the same ones that today accuse people of being anti-semites whenever their agenda is in any way revealed.

Posted by: Alxandro at May 17, 2004 09:31 PM

I consider myself an independent that leans to the right. As far as Bergs death. Yeah I think he was already dead before the video, it was a fabrication.

I also think maybe the jumpsuit was used, because the military tends to tape interrogations, and they had a tape of Mr. Berg from his previous interrogation in Mosul. To merge existing video with the beheading, they would need to keep him in an orange jumpsuit.

Just like terrorsits killed in Fallujah with Iraqi Police ID's, a percentage of the Iraqi's working with US forces leave their day job and plot terrorist activity. Maybe the abductors were tipped off by Iraqi's in the prison. From Bergs emails I've read on the web, he was moved from a cell block because the Muslim prisoners resented being held with a Jew.

As far as him making it back to Bagdad, maybe his killers couldn't get to him before he left Mosul, or wanted to make sure American forces wern't tailing him before they kidnapped him.

I really don't think US forces killed the man. If the US found his body they already knew his father was filing suit over his detainment. There would be a lot less controversy if there was video that terrorists killed him rather than him just turning up dead. Plus if it gained sympathy for the cause over there.. bonus.

One thing to remember is that these terrorists want you dead and don't care if you're a Republican or Democrat. If you've read any of their manifestos, they want to rid the world of western culture and "infidels." Radical islam sent Afghanistan and Iran back into the "stone age." And extemists tried previously to hit the World Trade Center in the Clinton Admin. so I don't buy the claim "Bush Knew."

We are no angels and the prison abuse scandal is inexcusable, but what have we gained over there? We are the most resistant to the UN so all the New World Order theories are out the window if you ask me. (And I've heard them all..... living in Montana with all the patriot extremists waiting for the day they can dig up all their guns they've buried in their back yards!)

For Money? The Bush Administration is investigating and revoked some of Hailburton's contracts. The instability of the region doesn't make for a profitable environment. (Ask Nick Berg, he didn't land contracts while there. He was giving estimates.) We are forking out a lot more than we are profiting. And we certainly aren't getting a break on oil.

We need to take responsibility for our foreign policy yes, but there are a lot of other bad govts., regimes and groups out there that are just as guilty. It's a bad world out there and lets keep things in perspective.

Yes, we are the most hated country on the planet. Partly because we are basically the last superpower left. My kids asked "Mom, why does everyone hate us?" I told them "Why do you hate the NY Yankees? Because they win all the time and have all the money for better players right? Well basically that's why the world hates us." We still give more aid and money to every country and cause out there. An tho not perfect, we are an inheritantly good people.

We certainly aren't going to find a peacful resolution by preaching tolerance to terrorism. Neville Chamberlain thought tolerance would keep Hitler at bay, and England's failure to take a pro-active stance almost caused them to lose the war.

Japan and Germany had occupation for years befoe they stabilized. We still have forces in Bosnia (Clinton Admin.) If we pull out now Iraq will have more civil war than they do now. If we stay we are the occupation. We can't win.

Bush blew it because he didn't take into consideration that given a choice of who the Arabs hate more Hussein, radical islam or the US, they hate the US the most.

Posted by: Sharon at May 17, 2004 09:32 PM

wait.. I think perhaps we had a crosslink... I posted about the same time you did... and then read yours and then mine again... it sounded like I was attacking you. I wasn't. Not my style. Wasn't even the case. Don't take it that way. :) Talk about deception at work! look how easy that was to twist shit up and make it LOOK like I just jumped all over it! Anyway, I was going to say, "good catch!" I'll look at it.

Posted by: tangledwebweaver at May 17, 2004 09:32 PM

Double posting... talk about paranoid. ;) Whoever said we wanted to 'win'? Don't you think we KNEW this would be a never ending battle- talk about a real money maker(for some). Did we REALLY think that by taking out a couple head people would STOP terror in a World FULL of it!? That would be like saying, let's bust these two Cocaine makers, and we'll have won the war on drugs. C'mon, so long as there are people with evil thoughts, there will be terror(ists). We'll never win the "War on Terror" so long as we're terrorist ourselves.

Posted by: tangledwebweaver at May 17, 2004 09:49 PM

Sharon - I am an independent that leans to the right as well and I agree with you about everything you've stated, except for the part about the US being most resistant to the UN.
Going against the UN was just part of the plan.
Don't you see, it's all a freekin' puppet show, it's all staged just like WWF match.
Now we hear that the UN will be involved, afterall, with the reconstruction of Iraq.

nichevo - don't be so paranoid, your posts are still there.

Posted by: Alxandro at May 17, 2004 09:52 PM

hmmm, or maybe not

Posted by: Alxandro at May 17, 2004 09:59 PM

or maybe not... haha... that's what I said.

Posted by: tangledwebweaver at May 17, 2004 10:01 PM

Tangle, sorry for the accusation. I realized after reading previous posts and the timeframe that you may not have been referring to me. the video shows what looks like a green cap. Can't tell if it is really army or was even included in the original tape but it is interesting.

Posted by: soseraphic at May 17, 2004 10:02 PM

OMFG, that was freaky

Posted by: Alxandro at May 17, 2004 10:03 PM

Well, for one thing. You guys bitch and bitch about the stuff that might not be used as an evidence. But you never say anything against the hard evidence. CNN and CIA are not saying the same. And why would be anyone who identifies himself wear a mask. If you can explain that you won a battle but not the war. Not here, not against terrorism...

Posted by: don Pierre at May 17, 2004 10:12 PM

No worries. I'm all about unveiling any and all things truthful. Not here to judge. I appreciate your response, but you don't need to apologize- only learn from our own errs. ;) There are NO coincidences in life. Things happen for a reason.

Posted by: tangledwebweaver at May 17, 2004 10:17 PM

For those who have the video, turn up the volume and go to 13:46:11 and tell me if you hear someone say "hold him" in between shouts of "Allahu Akbar". Rewind it a few times, its very distinct from the other sounds once you hear it the first time. He says something afterwards but I can't make it out.

Posted by: Ignoble at May 17, 2004 10:22 PM

The War on Terror is a joke and just a front for the NWO to push their agenda.
Oh my God, please save us from these Problem, Reaction, Solutions.

Look at the previous wars,
War on Illiteracy - the educational system keeps getting dumbed down, and the bar lowered every year.

War on Drugs - ha
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2814861.stm

Posted by: Alxandro at May 17, 2004 10:27 PM

BERG MET WITH SHADY IRAQI

Berg teamed up in Baghdad with an ex-Philadelphia man who led a controversial group of Iraqi expatriates encouraged by the U.S. government - even as he faced deportation for his role in Russian-emigre crime ring selling millions of vials used for crack.

Berg was picked because
- unescorted American
- carrying a copy of the Koran

He was robbed once in the streets of Baghdad

Berg and Aziz K. Aziz spent an hour climbing tall buildings at Abu Ghraib...to re-recorded measurements that were in his stolen notebook.

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/8684646.htm?ERIGHTS=-9086222262578030485philly::buzzflash@buzzflash.com&KRD_RM=7nvvunnuovwnouwnqvnnnnnnnn|mark|N

Posted by: trap at May 17, 2004 10:40 PM

Unfortunately, it takes a great tragedy before we (the majority) will come together in unity and back something (War on Terror). Man, we jumped all over that one! We can't blame Bush, shoot, we voted for him (well some did)... oh wait, or did we? Who's being played here? Us or them- or both?

Only the captains will know what deals go on behind closed doors.

All the speculation in the world could not endure an ounce of truth from the lips of a President.

Posted by: tangledwebweaver at May 17, 2004 10:57 PM

Jesus christ. I'm pretty sure there is something in Islamic law about SAWING SOMEONES HEAD OFF, AS WELL. Lawn furniture? You're REALLY using LAWN FURNITURE to back up your point?! I can go get that EXACT same chair from a HUNDRED dollar stores. Does that mean -I- sawed off Nick Bergs head? Hellll no.

As for your calmness theory. They have guns, video cameras, large scale weapons. I think they can spring for a little tranq juice. Plus, dude had no idea what was going on, and they had guns. WHY THE HELL WOULD HE STRUGGLE? Till they pulled out the saw. Then....he went nuts, as he should. And yes, there was a LOT of blood.

Fat white guys? Where the HELL do you see white guys? They may not be field soldiers, but they weren't WHITE, fer gods sake.

Prison walls the same color. Dude. Desert. It's a neutral color so it isn't bright as hell, and hot as the same during the day. Do some damn research.

And dude. Terroists. Hellooo? You really think they DONT WEAR THIER VESTS AT ALL TIMES? And fyi...those vests do dick agaisnt a piercing weapon.

Seriously, it's great you wanna be nice to the people we severly fucked up. But in all honesty...the CIA has been doing a fabulous job doing cover-ups for longer than any of us have been alive. I don't think they will screw up a wee video.

Posted by: The Scybermonk at May 17, 2004 10:59 PM

Alxandro,
I guess I disagree with you on this one (nice debating with you tho) I have a lot of background on the NWO. I used to run a booth at preparedness expos, and have known a lot of Militia and NWO theorist people. (John Trochman, Randy Weaver, Bo Gritz etc.) They were running around 15 years ago talking about Black Helicopters, US concentration camps, UN troops on US soil, and buried their gold coins. My ex still has huge stockpiles of rice and flour from Y2K.

With the exception of the Patriot Act (I'm against) and anti-terrorism measures what have we lost? The conservatives have not passed any legislation on gun rights. We are currently at war with an opponent that has no organized country or face. I do feel we are making some civil right concessions. Americans have sacrificed a lot more in past wars. During the Civil War Lincoln suspended habeas corpus. Every time new style money is minted the nay sayers claim it's part of a conspiracy (for 100 years.) My ex took a business trip right after 9/11 claiming state borders would be sealed and free travel would cease to exist as we knew it.

Everything NWO they have claimed has not come into fruition and has even gone the opposite direction. We are more polarized from Western Europe and Russia now than since the wall fell.

If the Powers-that-be have a grand design, then the UN would have jumped on board with the whole Iraq thing. (One less country to get into line)
This Iraqi thing would have set the NWO agenda back decades. Why would they blow such a chance?

There are too many powerful butt-heads out there with power-struggle issues to get into line for a NWO thing to work. Have you ever heard any leaders say "So-and-so won't let me into the NWO!!" Never has any major leader fallen out of favor and leaked out "The Grand Plan."

With the internet free exchange of ideas is rampant. No loger is there ABC, NBC, and CBS to spoon-feed the masses. There are more independent thinkers out there than ever. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there aren't groups of powerful individuals controlling elements of our world.

Globalization is a symptom of our technology based civilization, not the Illumiati.

Posted by: Sharon at May 17, 2004 11:20 PM

if the narrative with berg were videoed at the prison on an earlier date, then the beheaders whould have no choice (since he identified himself in that video) but to behead him in the orange jumpsuit.

his appearance is different in those two separate incidents.

-t-

Posted by: tam at May 17, 2004 07:26 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


tam: I think you're right about that. Someone on Liberty Forum* has done a frame-by frame analysis of the first portion. There is no doubt that two cameras were used, one of which is on a tripod throughout, and other one mobile. It would seem that the desynchronised audio and the missing moments, here and there, can be accounted for by the fact that someone with a green cap (the Official movie director?) occasionally appears at the edge of the image in the tripod camera (2:44, etc.) and has to be cut out of the sequences.
Upthread, someone has observed that the audio is poor, not having been shot by a grip.

This suggests that Mr Berg was in Abu Ghraib from April 19 through May 8, 2004, and that the first shots of him sitting on the white plastic Walmart chair were taken with the same camcorders which recorded other events in the infamous prison. This will explain why the rest of the material is not being released: technical analysis of video images of US-sponsored torture and sado-machistic orgies would reveal the entire story. The tape was made to prevent release of those documents.

If you are horrified by the dreadful death of Mr Berg and Suport Our Troops, call your Congressman and Senator and demand that all the material from Abu Ghraib be published.
__________
* http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_international&Number=1471708&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21&part=1

Posted by: Her at May 17, 2004 11:35 PM

Jason, Jason, Jason, You sure are upset. What part of 'dialog' do you not understand? You have insulted person after person on this forum, by insisting we don't know the facts.

Well DUH! Go back and read Marc's introduction. Seems like he didn't insist he was right on every count. seems like he was inviting us to discuss it.....

Apparently you are sure YOU have ALL of the answers. What gives you the right to believe Bush is lily white and INSIST the rest of us believe that hog wash?

You have not answered the more difficult points people have posted here. Just ridiculed anyone who disagrees with your puppy love of Bush. This is a Forum, not truth or consequences.

How utterly rude to ORDER me not to answer your attack on me. Sorry, I don't take orders from Bush Toadys. As to intelligence, you have shown a decided lack thereof, so maybe you shouldn't accuse others of lacking something you seem to have such a short supply of.

Feel free to answer, when you dislodge your foot from your mouth.

Posted by: Rebecka at May 17, 2004 11:41 PM

The orange attire is not a prison jumpsuit. It's not even close. Look at the color, the sheen, and the drape of the fabric. Besides, do you think our CIA or whomever would be dumb enough to fake this film with all the little "coincidences" in it? A bunch of 12 year olds would do a better fake job than that.

Posted by: Bart at May 17, 2004 11:42 PM

This whole thing is incredibly stupid, but especially the part where Muslims are forbidden to wear gold jewelry. Ever heard of the Gold Souk? Muslims fricken love the stuff!

http://www.ferien.li/dubai-infos/goldsouk-dubai/info2.htm

http://www.bahraingoldcity.com/index1.html

Posted by: the anti-kook at May 17, 2004 11:51 PM

Ignoble: I dont know about that, but I will view it again and try to listen closely.

Though I do know that after the chants of "Allahu Akbar", you can hear a western voice saying : "Thy will be done".

Thanks...

Posted by: Mahra at May 18, 2004 12:11 AM

Tangle, glad you noticed that I can admit a mistake, quite readily, you see. No coincidences? Then you are saying either that the the military did do it or that whoever did set it up to look like the military did it even though only us few would notice it. Seems like a lot of work to through for the few of us who have noticed.

Posted by: Soseraphic at May 18, 2004 12:17 AM

No no, Anti-kook, It is forbidden and considered as a sin for a male muslim to wear gold. (NECKLACE, BRACELET, RING, TOE RING, PIERCING...etc).I am a muslim female from the United Arab Emirates, so i would know.

But I still dont think thats a proof he's not Al-zarqawi. The only positive theory about him NOT being Al-zarqawi is because he is masked, if he did say he was Al-zarqawi then there is no reason for him to wear some burglar-like mask and look stupid. Have we ever seen Osama bin Laden wear a mask? I dont think so.

Posted by: Mahra at May 18, 2004 12:20 AM

Oh man.... You guys are killing me here. I read a lot of these comments, and I had to stop - they are all going around in circles rehashing the same stuff over, and over again, yet people don't even think about what is being said. The chair is indeed different, they are NOT bulletproof vests, the orange jumpsuit is NOT the same as a prision vest (sleeves, zipper, etc), and yada yada yada.
My point being, that no one here has even REMOTELY entertained the notion that they [Iraqi terrorists] might have "duped" us into believing that we were duped. Thats right! - this is one of the more basic aspects of 4GW (4th Generation Warfare), and no one has even mentioned this. "halfing" your opponents army by turning them against each other is the same as killing half of them. And so far its working - they have used 4GW against us in this whole prision abuse thing, and getting "half" of all Americans to turn against Bush, and the efforts in Iraq. Think about it, "why" would the CIA, or any BushCo people even stage this - it ain't gonna get ANY more Americans to support Bush, or the war efforts, even a 6th grader would tell you that. Its common knowledge that there is nothing that *anyone* can say/do that would EVER change the mind of a Busher/America hating anti-war type. Clear to me that this is a 4GW tactic, and this 2-mile long string of comments on this subject is pure PROOF of it - devide the enemy, and seed further doubts so that one of the half hands up "halfing" again so that eventually the ENTIRE population of your enemy is no longer your enemy, and all for different reasons. Its a brilliant and effective tactic, and so far, there is no known defence for it and 4GW. And that sucks too.

Posted by: Mr Wizzard at May 18, 2004 12:27 AM

I'm assuming no one bothered to read this yet:

I just stumbled on something. As ugly as it might seem you have to go and watch the video again.

1)The tape begins with a shot from one camera from Berg's left side. Berg is looking at another camera pionted straight on. Notice his right sleve position.

2)Second camera shot is straight on, Notice the right sleeve again. This proves the obvious of editing at least.

3)Now, watch the whole video without sound while Berg is supposedly sitting in front of terrorists reading statement,and KEEP YOUR EYES ON BERG'S LEFT ARM/SHOULDER AREA DOWN TO THE HIP POSITION. WATCH IT CAREFULLY. YOU WILL NOTICE THAT A LOT OF MOVEMENT OF HIS SUIT OCCURS WITHOUT HIM MOVING. THE POSITION OF HIS CREASE IN SUIT DOES A LOT OF MOVING WITHOUT HIM EVER MOVING. ALSO OBSERVE UNDER HIS BUTTOCS. A LOT OF MOVEMENT OCCURS WITHOUT HIM MOVING.

4)ALSO NOTICE THE "BLEEDING OF COLOR" FROM HIS LEFT SHOULDER OVER THE SPEAKERS PANTS. YOU NEVER GET TO SEE THE CONTINUATION OF THE SPEAKERS PANTS DOWN TO HIS FOOT! GIVEN THAT THE LIGHTING IS COMING FROM BERG'S RIGHT, HIS LEFT SHOULD BE VERY SHADOWED AND THE SPEAKERS LEG SHOULD FADE INTO BLACK AND NOT HAVE THE BLEEDING OF COLOR OF BERG'S SUIT!!

5) WATCH THE CREASE ON THE FLOOR DEPARTING FROM BERG'S LEFT HIP/BUTTOCK AREA. IT CHANGES OFTEN.

6) LOOK AT THE LIGHTING OF ALL THE "TERRORISTS." IT IS VERY HIGH SIDE LIGHTING THAT CASTS SHADOWS OF THE TERRORIST'S HEAD TO THE RIGHT OF THE MOVIE FRAME! tHIS LIGHT IS VERY HIGH AND WOULD NOT BE EFFECIENT ENOUGH TO ILLUMINATE BERG'S FACE AS IT APPEARS IN THE VIDEO!! IF THERE WERE ANOTHER LIGHT TO ILLUMINATE BERG'S FACE THERE WOULD BE FALL OFF LIGHT TO ILLUMINATE THE TERRORIST'S PANTS THAT IS NOT THERE.

THIS IS CLEARLY A SIGN OF SUPERIMPOSED IMAGES THAT DON'T QUITE MATCH!!!

8)THERE IS A 22 MINUTE LAPSE OF TIME FROM THE FIRST TAKE OF BERG'S STRAIGHT ON SHOT IN THE CHAIR TO THE NEXT SHOT OF HIM SITTING IN FRONT OF THE TERRORISTS. THE SAME CAMERA WAS USED FOR THESE SHOTS!!

THIS DOESN'T PROVE THAT BERG WAS/WAS NOT BEHEADED. BUT, THIS PROVES THAT THE VIDEO HAS BEEN EDITED OVER AND OVER AGAIN TO MAKE IT LOOK AS IT APPEARS, WHICH IS CLEARLY NOT THE CASE. THIS DEFINITELY REMINDS ME OF THE OSWALD SHOT THAT APPEARED ON NEWSPAPERS THE DAY AFTER THEY CAUGHT HIM.

I AM A PHOTOGRAPHER AND HAVE MUCH STUDIO EXPERIENCE WITH PORTRAIT LIGHTING AND GROUP LIGHTING.

THE TAPE AS IT APPEARS IS A FAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Vinnie at May 18, 2004 12:30 AM

I came across a website yesterday (not sure if I saved the link). But, they had a closeup of him when he was sitting in the white chair. (This picture was actually clearer then some I have seen). And, after I spent about 10 minutes looking @ the picture of him in the blue shirt (shaved head), and the picture of him in the chair (w/hair)..They look identical. Although, the pictures that they show from a 'distance', makes them look like 2 different people.

I am too much of a chickenshit to watch the video...So, I have not seen it...

Posted by: melissa at May 18, 2004 12:49 AM

Anti-kook, lol thats DUBAI, the website, thats where I live. The gold is souk is one of the tourist attractions here. Americans and Brits are everywhere in the gold-souk.

Funny, and we were told Americans are abolutely in love with gold. lol. Wasnt JUST told but had a few experiences. Hey, come of it, who doesnt love gold? And yeah arabic "LADIES" love gold, even some men, but it is STILL considered as against the islamic religion. (Bad, forbidden, sin..!)

Posted by: Mahra at May 18, 2004 12:51 AM

I cant evenn think how come a person become so cool just before his execution order? when N.berg was sitting cool i heared he is shouting- what is not possibel. He was shouting but he was still cool. How come it is possible. I have experience to work in vedio editing. I think its a fake video.

Posted by: ss at May 18, 2004 01:02 AM

I think that there are many good theories to what really happened. And I mean theories... But to me this is looking more and more like a staged event. 911, flight 800, Oklahoma City, Waco TX, in those and other horror events when they first happened people were shocked. Fear took over and the mind can be easily confused. But in EVERY one of the above listed events, there were factual evidence that was either covered up, or spun into a convenient conspiracy whitewash.


Now what if I told you that I knew of videotape that showed a missile hitting the pentagon? That it was extremely clear, un-edited, and had a time date stamp? Would I be un-American to give it up to the government so it could be destroyed like the FAA supervisor did to the audio transcripts from NY?

No, I'd just sit on the tape, until the time was right. Even the goverment screws up.

Posted by: ElizaMoelita at May 18, 2004 01:08 AM

Brother whatsoever is going on we are not practising our islam, if practise islam and respect to other religion, they will come to islam, i am blaming anyone because i am so weak to practise to islam, i tell i thing use to be islam is a one name now islam have a two one is muslim and second is islam if practise according what Allah revealed to us through Prophets, everythig will be goes alright, if the non-muslim know that this remain world because muslims, they will wakes us for every prayers. we have a corect to ourself first and other muslims around the world and stop them to doing the sinning

Posted by: Munir Saeed at May 18, 2004 01:11 AM

The reason for the two timestamps is there are two cameras. One rolling with a 2:xx:xx timestamp and one with a 13:xx:xx timestamp. It is obvious from when Nick Berg is giving his name. Camera one shoots from a 45 degree angle and then camera two is shooting him head on. Berg is sitting in the same position and the information flows fluidly. That chair is a Wal-Mart chair here you can buy for 5 bucks. I have no clue where anyone gets the fat white guys argument. There is no reason to believe there would not be an abundance of these chairs in Iraq as well. I'm looking at the 5 assholes and the only one I think is pudgy and pale is the one on the far right as they are standing behind Berg. In our first excursion into Iraq we imprisoned plenty of pudgy pale Iraqi soldiers. No they were not the norm, but they were there. As for the jumpsuit this is probably the best argument you have, but I ask you do you really think it is that difficult for a terror cell to get their hands on one? I can go down to a thrift store and buy one. They want to make the Jew look like a prisoner, it is not that hard to understand. I don't know what you are seeing that are bullet proof vests. The only thing I see different on terrorist 2,4,5 are what appear to be load-bearing-vests. That definitely would not be unusual for a militant group to have. You are correct that the man claiming to be Zarqawi is not Zarqawi. That is why he is masked. Two schools of thought on this: He knows the name will garner more attention for him, or like pirates of the past the name is passed down so that the next leader can still claim legitimate leadership and a following from those outside his immediate realm(this is the one I go with). I still think there are a few unanswered questions regarding this poor boy's death but to now try and place the blame on the CIA and little bush is absurd. Compare this video to Daniel Pearl's beheading and you will see too many similarities to declare this as neocon conspiracy.

Posted by: Brick at May 18, 2004 01:51 AM

some good points, I wouldnt put anything past you bent yanks, sooner we get our british troops out the better, I do not want us helping America to fight the jews war.

Posted by: John UK at May 18, 2004 02:01 AM

Well, I have tried really hard to read all of these comments, but there are so many. I see that a whole lot of people really want to refuse to believe any conspiracy theory. I too remember how comfortable it was to be able to assume that our government always does the right thing, despite learning of the atrocities of our past when dealing with non-whites and nonchristians (e.g. blacks and slavery, native american mass slaughter, Vietnam, etc.). But those things are supposed to be in the past, according to my early schooling. Now we stand for freedom, democracy, and everything good, right?
You see the only thing that has really changed is that now, ideals are so high that this kind of thing needs to be covered up. Do you think that in WWII, if they found out we were abusing Japanese POW's, Americans would have cared? Of course not! These days, "patriots" are so caught up in the good vs. evil, benevolent spreaders of freedom rhetoric that they lose sight of the fact that we are at WAR! This kind of thing really does happen during war, so if you don't like it, perhaps you shouldn't be so supportive of the war.
All of this being said, there are alot of inconsistencies, some of which the naysayers have offered decent rebuttals to. Many were not really solid points, like the chair or the bulletproof vests, but just because Nick Berg was Jewish does not mean he didn't have blood flowing through his veins! By the way, I have nothing against Jewish people, that was just a joke. But I cannot see, and have not seen a good counterargument to the lack of blood. Hundreds have talked about the chair. So what, good for you, I hope you feel really smart. What about the blood?

Posted by: Nickelless at May 18, 2004 02:32 AM

I guess orange material does not exist
in that region of the world to make jump suites on in the US right?

You must all remember most of American clothes are not made in the US but sweat shops in poor countries.

Posted by: sanco at May 18, 2004 04:36 AM

I guess orange material does not exist
in that region of the world to make jump suites only in the US right?

You must all remember most of American clothes are not made in the US but sweat shops in poor countries.

Posted by: sanco at May 18, 2004 04:37 AM

WEll, it's taken me all day to read each and every post in this thread, and the one thing I get from all this "typing" is that there is still two sides warring, the bush-lover-war-is-honorable-sheeple-patriots who name call the rest of us, and the rest of us who think for ourselves.
And, of all the post I've read, only one hit it on the head. Satin is alive and well on planet earth, the chief liar who is pulling all the puppet strings on all the politicians on either side of the aisle, and all the religious fanatics, western or middle eastern. However you look at it, the end is indeed neigh. God save his human children from the evil dark spirit that has come over the earth.

--B. Joseph Fekete, Jr. [not afraid to sign my real name!]

Posted by: B. Joseph Fekete, Jr. at May 18, 2004 05:13 AM

A synopsis:
1. Terrorist on left is thin and straddling a piece of material that has been used to cover the floor. He/she has on glasses. If he/she is female, could explain the scream which sounds female.
2. Lights are high - could be prison lights.
3. Two cameras are used. One fixed, one mobile.
4. Orange prison outfit used as tape is edited from time he announces identification to beheading.
5. Skin color is light.


Somebody tell me site where I can get sound with video. I listen for a living and will digest and report.

Posted by: aintmensa at May 18, 2004 05:15 AM

To aintmensa. Prison lights fixed on a ceiling could not produce the shadows behind the "terrorist" head that way. This I know for a fact. I work with lighting every day for the past 25 years! Not only photographing people but, also still life. I've also been working with Photoshop for the past 10 years and know the inherent problems with superimposing images. Who ever made this video I'm just saying that the video is highly elaborated and superimposed just like the Oswald photo that appeared on newspapers and WAS PROVED TO BE A FAKE.

Posted by: Vinnie at May 18, 2004 05:42 AM

Well I dont thimk that men from Iraq would be fat and white like americans are. I mean think about it they dont have fastfood like mcdondals over there but they do have it in the usa ??????????????????????????????????????

Posted by: harvir at May 18, 2004 05:49 AM

I think the biggest thing that ive seen alot of people missing, is the reason he is in the orange jump suit.

Think about that for a second. Say I'm a terrorist and ive captured someone i plan to later decapitate. I'm not going to walk around IRAQ with my latest punching bag in a orange suit, i mean, your trying NOT to draw attention to yourself.
Plus when was the last terrorist video that you saw masked terrorists in ?

Posted by: VG at May 18, 2004 05:57 AM

Yo man my main point is no blood coming from the head man but I think that if cut someons head of man blood would certainly come out man but then again man they must have used specail effects man but then again think about it man do Iraqis have that kind of technologyno man but Americans do man so listen to me you fuckers man

Posted by: YO_MAMA at May 18, 2004 06:00 AM

yo man I totally agree with that Harvir, and VG DOOD MAN LIKE 100% MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN

Posted by: YO_MAMA at May 18, 2004 06:05 AM

Why does everyone keep saying 'the CIA can't be that stupid'? The photos of our military abusing the prisoners proves how stupid our government can be. How can you tell a country 'abuse and torture of your people is bad', but for us its ok. Wake up people.

Posted by: Ata at May 18, 2004 06:23 AM

Everyone who says "I work with lighting everyday, there's no way a light would make such a shadow." or "I have seen people who have had their throats slit and there was blood everywhere...bla BLA BLA" Your points are not valid. You were not in the prison cell taking account of the lights around the prison. Did you take into consideration that video cameras have lights on them? Just because you've seen something along the lines of what is in this video doesn't mean that everything in the video has to be exactly like what you saw.

Posted by: Debaser at May 18, 2004 06:28 AM

The molds and dies required to produce those plastic chairs are owned by a major U.S. Company that dominates the housewares market. In order to produce such a chair, the process of injection molding is required using no less than a 400ton press. A search of the Thomas Register will yield the name of the chair manufacturer. It is primarily sold by the U.S. company, Wal-Mart.

Such chairs would most likely NOT be available for purchase in the country of Iraq mostly in part to a zero trade embargo. Be you a skeptic or not, the chair presents a puzzling and bizzare presence.

Posted by: Plastic Boy at May 18, 2004 06:32 AM