Snagged this off of MSNBC - Torture.pdf
This is pretty interesting legal bullshit. It basically justifies everything Bush and the millitary does. It makes me wish I was a lawyer defending the guards at Abu Griab. This memo provides the perfect legal cover. Here's why:
The guards say that they were acting under orders and that they were doing so because they believed that they were saving lives by extracting valuable information - because they were told that was the reason.
Now - here's the test. Would a person reasonably believe their actions were justified under these circumstances? Normally this excuse wouldn't fly - but - because of this memo - it changes everything.
The guards can argue that they could reasonably believe it because the legal counsel to the President believed it - and would a lowly guard be expected to be smarter that the presidents lawyers? See where this is going? It's the "I can be expected to be smarter than the President" defense. I think it would work.
Seriously - if the President says it's legal - the secretary of defense says it's legal - the justice department says it's legal - the generals say it's legal - the commanding officers say it's legal - then how can a burger flipper who was called to duty - trained as a truck mechanic - and made a prison guard know that it's not legal?
The truth is - everyone from the President on down know that it was illegal - but they all lied to create a legal fiction to justify breaking the law. It's a plan where if enough higher ups break the law - and the congress and the supreme court is under Republican control - we know they are all going to get away with it. But if these legal theories had any validity then Hitler and Saddam Husein would be innocent. Begause what this memo says is that the President is above the law and can do whatever the hell he wants.
Posted by marc at June 8, 2004 08:05 PM | TrackBackI am no longer convinced that the Iraqis were tortured and humiliated inorder to get information out of them. This was the ordinary civilian population that was imprisoned - taxi divers, butchers, janitors, etc... What the USA was trying to do was to create a class of informers to plant back into society to be called on at any time. I mean, force a married man with children and friends to get naked and put his mouth on another man's member, take pictures of it....threaten him that you will show the pics if he doesn't do everything you say.... I mean....this is Rumsfeld's brainchild. He's well read enough to be a student of Felix Derzhinsky.
Posted by: richard at June 9, 2004 04:15 AMHey, somebody put the Berg/abu ghraib white chair up for sale on ebay!
Anyway, what is it that that army gal is holding in her hand? And, why is she holding the glass container in a white napkin? That glass container has a cover too. It's the strangest looking glass container I have ever seen. I mean...it's ribbed - it has two spaced "ribs" toward the base. It's covered also but, there looks like there is a concaved spot at the top and perhaps a hole in the very center. I am sorry but, I just don't believe that she has marinated beets in there. I mean..there is liquid there and then chunks of something sticking out of the liquid.
Posted by: richard at June 9, 2004 04:30 AMHey, imagine if Ashcroft had tried to keep that memo from an angry senate? It would have toppled Bush from the white house for sure.
Posted by: richard at June 9, 2004 04:36 AMugh! forced nudity a way of life for the new "free" Iraqi "mole/informer" class of ordinary working folks at Abu Ghraib!
Posted by: richard at June 9, 2004 04:41 AMI agree with your first post (all the others in this string too), Richard.
These methods weren't used to extract information.
Rather to receive information over the long-term.
Look a J. Edgar Hoover.
He was able to do much of what he wanted despite the skeletons in his closet (cross-dresser and supposed homosexual in a more traditional time)
and although he had "issues" (some might find him normal- I'm a skeptic)
he had more dirt on the people around him than they did on him, real rotten stuff that we still don't know about.
His "eccentricities" weren't really examined 'till after his death.
If we were using these pictures to create loyalty towards the Coalition Military (which seems like a logical explanation if their is any logic behind rape, "torture", and sodomy)
Than we should have screened the Soldiers who partook in these operations to ensure that nothing left the prison.
Oh, well
Shoulda, woulda, coulda
Check the glass container again,
I smell a conspiracy.
This memo is cover-your-ass for Bush so he can turn around an uncover the asses of Iraqis.
All-right.
My Adversary TOM will have a field day with this.
I watched O'Rilley today.
( if I watch t.v. it's C-SPAN and not that often. Fox is spun like all the other networks and newspapers, but I feel that O'Rilley is has some ethics (I generally look at his web-page))
And he brought up an interesting point.
The memo released had to do with Al-pussy qweefa operatives.
Not Iraqis. (even though Al-qweefa is in Iraq)
I read the ENTIRE MEMO!
My eyes hurt (more than normal) afterwards.
Small print and all
Something is afoot
Posted by: Rob at June 9, 2004 08:02 PMPlease vote out BUSH...I am Canadian and am really horrified by wharts going on down there.
How the hell did a smarmy, shit-eating-grin wearing moron get voted into office. I expect the poor eduaction in US schools is leading people to be so ignorant of world issues that they actually believe the lying monkey-man president that is in power and his "hitleresque" henchmen.
Seriously..the Bush administration is the most frightening government in the world right now. You guys have all the money, all the bombs and they are under the control of a complete nepotistic fuckup.
Argggggg.
frustrated AND FRANKLY SCARED
S.