Still waiting for the IRS to make a decision about if they consider the Church of Reality a real church. It's supposed to take 3 months and now it's 7 1/2 months and no word. Last time I called the IRS person said they were behind and didn't know when they were going to catch up.
I'm beginning to wonder if they are giving Christians preferential treatment and staling on non-christian applications. Or - at least part of the IRS is collapsing into totall disfunctionality. Is the IRS really 5 months behind normal approving 501c3 organizations? If so - why? Something funny is going on at the IRS. Does anyone out there have any information on why they might be taking so long?
Posted by marc at July 17, 2004 06:50 AM | TrackBackTHE MOONIES!!! lmao
Posted by: Joshua Gillogly at July 17, 2004 07:28 AMWell, for what it's worth our local rangers group (A Christian based non-profit charity & community service organization) recently applied for and received our 501c3. I remember the application was send the week before Thanksgiving last year and we received approval the 1st week of February, so that was about 10 weeks.
I hope everything goes well.
Marc, would a petition help?
Posted by: Alex Libman at July 18, 2004 05:20 PMGive it up Perkel. Your Church makes TOO much sense and allows for its followers to be able to think for themselves. There is no room for control from 'The First One' or 'The Others'.
You know, long ago in my head I created my own religion and political party: common sense. The basis of both: common sense. Myth is myth and reality can't be argued with. Keep it up (good thing you're not a catholic priest. that comment would be miscontrued...) and let your readers know if a petition would be helpful...
Posted by: charlie chingas at July 20, 2004 01:22 PMTragically, none of you folks know what reality is..! You claim to be "thinkers" and that there is no God, but you cannot support your bitter, hateful positions with anything resembling thoughtful persuasion. Instead, you resort to bad-mouthing anyone who has faith in God (doesn't matter which God) and yet you cannot prove with any or your convoluted "logic" or painfully pitiful "reality" that there is no God to you are accountable!
Pity. Is it possible that you simply don't want your lifestyle interrupted by a holy and righteous God that demands obedience and rewards those who seek Him? Surely that cannot be why the venom flows from all things "rantz"...
Perhaps it's because you think human intelligence so superior as to understand all that there is, was, or ever will be. How arrogant! Being a "computer nerd," "geek," or otherwise brilliant "thinker" does not qualify anyone, especially you, to declare what is reality! At best, all you can do is proclaim "I DON'T WANT GOD, THEREFORE THIS IS NO GOD!" all the while denying the evidence right under your arrogant pagan nose!
Consider the “reality” of this logical fallacy you so often promote: there is no God. A) it presumes that you possess enough information to make such a declaration… and you should know better, since you’re in the information business!
B) if there is no God how did the universe begin? Your own science admits that infinity is not possible beyond theoretical arguments, which are useless. Your own science as already admitted that the universe had a beginning… and before it began there had to be matter, which had to be designed – ergo A DESIGNER! C) the same science that you so dutifully worship betrays your ignorance further by admitting that the DNA code and the human genome are superb examples of intelligent design, which demands A DESIGNER!
Rag on Christians, defame God, curse the very web connection that led my comments to you, but don’t pass of your piss-poor whining as thoughtful, persuasive arguments in support of your illogical, indefensible positions! You’re too smart for that and frankly your arguments are boring! If you want to be an atheist, fine. If you want to preach all things atheist, whatever. But spare the world, the net at least, your sissy arguments that fail on any competent examination of the REAL FACTS that you simply DON’T LIKE GOD, not that there is no God. Besides, have you REALLY considered the possibility of you being wrong; that there is a God, and that you’re accountable to Him? What if you’re destiny lies not in your intelligence, which I will grant is very high, but in your humility? There was once another really smart guy like you who came face-to-face with the very God he denied – Saul of Tarsus. You may have heard of him as Paul of the New Testament. He was very smart like you, but he was humbled when God met him personally to correct his thinking… One other smart guy you may better relate to… there was a guy who dabbled in science, actually won a few awards, like the Nobel prize in physics, and believed in and met the same God you deny. His name – Albert Einstein!
Since your intelligence is so reliable, what do you suppose was Einstein’s error regarding his faith…? Hmm?
Look, I won’t be an ass any further… I’m not interested in insulting you… my apologies for having done so thus far, but you did put out a bunch of stuff that perhaps no thoughtful Believer has held you accountable for… I’ll stop at this point but please, reconsider your position because frankly, your wrong and you’re eternity is at stake… I’ll add a post that may at least explain why. Read it, agree or disagree, that’s okay, but don’t say God doesn’t exist when you haven’t the foggiest idea what you’re proclaiming. If you want to deny God, reject God, do so, but don’t make up something as preposterous as presuming to know enough to know all there is… Only God could know enough to support your position!
Insults, engagement, or other discourse can be directed to learnit@netzero.net if you are inclined… I promise respect, but vigorous dialog, if you’re up to it!
Respectfully,
Larry :~)
I said I would explain why God is very much real and is very interested in you, so here goes...
(excerpt from another post/site)
Wow! Outstanding thread... for the entertainment value, at least.
Okay, I'm going out on a limb here. First, I appear to be the only Christian to weigh in so please don't dismiss me "off-hand" without at least a first read...
I disagree with much, agree with some, and believe some of you miss the greater point altogether. So, at the risk of pissing off EVERYONE on this thread, here goes...
First, ALL RELIGION IS FLAWED! Okay, not new here, but let me explain… By definition, RELIGION is man’s attempt to reach God (Allah, Buddha, Krishna, etc.) by man’s own effort of works – however those works are understood and accepted. If you (all) are intellectually honest with yourself, you will have to conclude that all religions are basically a set of rules by which man is to obey in order to earn acceptance into the presence of God (ibid), save one that I’ll come back to shortly.
The one constant thread that permeates all of the religions previously mentioned is that man must obey the precepts contained therein and pay a penalty of some sort for failing to do so. At the end of life, if one’s record of deeds weighs in favor of having done more good deeds than bad, obeying more than disobeying, that he/she is entitled to acceptance before God. After all, if God is good, fair, and you met the test, you should be “in.”
Man is constantly on a “treadmill” of behavior that takes him from a state of acceptance to rejection and back again! Tragic!
Okay, since I’m the Christian here so far, I’ll come clean with my perspective and why it’s different, correct, and easily defendable; though most of you will not be persuaded.
First, let me agree with most (perhaps all) of you when you say that terrible things have been done in the name of Christianity and has done nothing but stain the name of Jesus! Sad, but true. The Inquisition, true. Hitler, claiming to due what he did and trying to frame a justification cloaked in Christian doctrine, pitiful… Yep, I cannot deny it… However, none of that’s NOT CHRISTIANITY!
This is true Christianity – for the record! Christianity is NOT A RELIGION, IT’S A RELATIONSHIP! That’s right, a relationship… I’ll explain. The problem isn’t Islam, Buddhism, etc. – it’s MAN! Man is the problem because we all fall short of being perfect, holy, blameless, beyond reproach, just as God is. There is not one of you here who is honest can say that you have been perfect all the days of your life! Not one! Me included… God knew that you wouldn’t be and had a really big problem. Go with me on this one for a moment. I’ll wrap it up soon, I promise…
God’s problem? How can He accept you, a filthy, no good, unclean, imperfect, defiled human into His presence, disregard all of that, and with a strait face proclaim He is just, fair, and righteous? He can’t! He said so Himself. Imagine the argument put forth by Satan, rightfully so, given that apparent paradox. God is willing to forgive and forget all of sin and debauchery (true), but how would that be fair to Satan? Why not just wipe his transgressions under the rug and let bygones be bygones? Fair argument. It turns out that God CANNOT just wipe sin under the rug, but must exact justice for the violation of His character and remain righteous, holy, and pure. Sin must be punished. However God loves His creation, IN SPITE OF MAN’S CONDITION! As wild as that seems, and it is wild, it’s true. So what’s a God to do? He had a brilliant remedy – Jesus Christ!
When Jesus Christ voluntarily stepped out of eternity and into time to become man so that he could fully experience manhood like you and me, He set in motion the one alternative that would satisfy God’s righteousness and justice while providing a way to reconcile man to Himself. Since sin must be punished, and the only punishment suitable for violating God’s character is death, which means eternal separation, our sin must be punished accordingly. However, instead of God punishing you or me, He placed the guilt of us all on Jesus, who knew no sin of his own, and punished Him on our behalf! Since Jesus had no sin of His own and was fully man, he could fully qualify to pay for the sins of every man, woman, and child who would ever live! He has that much value in God’s sight. Imagine the cost to God! It cost Him everything, the death of His own son, to make eternity a free gift to you, simply and freely for the asking!
Why? Simply because He loves you! He made you! He wants a relationship with you! If you think that’s impossible because you’re not worthy, don’t worry, you’re not. None of us are! That’s the good news (or Gospel) you’ve heard so much about! You have a pardon with your name on it in heaven. All you have to do is claim it by faith and let the Lord change your life FROM THE INSIDE OUT! No amount of good deeds could ever do enough to equal the perfection of a Holy and Righteous God; but the perfection and righteousness of Christ are yours, if you want it and simply claim it by a simple act of the will – no more, no less.
The reality is NO ONE WILL GO TO HELL for the sins common to man; those you are thinking of right about now. Why? Christ paid for them – ALL OF THEM on the cross! The only sin for which Christ could not pay, the one that will lead you tragically to an eternity separated from the presence of your Creator, is the outright rejection of Christ and the gift of salvation He died to make available freely to you! It is very much the same thing that if I told you I have a present for you but you need to come over to my place and claim it (pick it up), you won’t receive the benefits of it until you do claim it. It’s still yours. It has your name on it. I paid for it for you, but you cannot benefit from it until you decide to claim it. I urge you to claim your gift of salvation! It’s yours!
You are the beneficiary of a love story, written in blood, on a wooden cross, erected in Judea some 2,000 years ago. A love story of a Father to His child – you!
So my friends, hopefully you see that true Christianity is NOT A RELIGION because it depends not on what you do by way of deeds, but what Christ has already done in order to reconcile you to the Father and restore a relationship that was once broken. I came in peace. I leave in peace… To all – peace…
Sorry, a simple post-script...
I mentioned that Christianity is NOT A RELIGION but IS A RELATIONSHIP - a relationship between you and God made possible by the finished work of Jesus on the cross. Anyone who would claim that Christianity is anything different does not know Christ. Read John 3:16, "... for God so loved the world that He gave is only begotten Son. That who ever believes in Him has eternal life and will never perish"
Christians aren't perfect. Far from it. We're forgiven and seeking Jesus moment-by-moment. Sometimes we fail, do really stupid things, and embarras ourselves and Jesus. We're still forgiven, God still loves and accepts us, and He will intervene to change our behavior - sometimes by way of the "Devine boot" up our rear ends, but always with the motive of turning us toward Him, not punishing us for the wrong we do. He already punished you - AT THE CROSS!
In closing, think of it this way. Punishment is always retribution for wrongs done in the past. Discipline is always corrective and leading to the future (behavior).
Just because some of us Christians don't act like it, do not confuse the rebellion of our flesh with the relationship of our spirit that's destined to be with the Father for eternity - even if some of us spend time in the "Devine woodshed" along the way!
Again, peace to all... :~)
Larry, you say you are Christian. Now, explain to me why some Christians force others to convert (my native people of what you now call North and South America). Are we wrong not be Christian or believe? And I don't recall bad mouthing any 'god'. Although I do repect your freedom to believe what you want, and I am very impressed on your writings, that saying you are right and everyone else is wrong, is, well, typical of a Christian. Read what you wrote to see what I mean. Who are YOU to say that YOUR god is THE god. Who are YOU to say that we are filthy beings. As I recall, the Spanish Conquistadores thought we were savages and strange for bathing 3 times a day! Savages for wearing little clothing. That mentality is still around today. If you're not Christian, you are wrong and will burn in eternal hell unil you let him into your life. and thank goodness for forgiveness from thy lord. without that, would some Christians not act like Christians willfully? Would a person rob a bank if they could get away with it?
Posted by: charlie chingas at August 5, 2004 08:34 AMDear friends and all human beings on this planet earth. I think in terms of peace love and kindness to all humankind. My Relationship with with other humans is first to be kind. My philosophy and psychology is one for all and all for one. What I have done after years of comparative studies of relgions and my studies from those who do not have a religion. At the age of 73 I have lived and practiced many of the known religions. I have lived in the far East,North America and Africa. Born into the Roman Catholic Church,then into other forms of Christian studies,then into Islam,and Jewish teahings and in the last 10 years into the Buddhist teachings. Having made study into the Bible,Torah,Qur'an and the Sutras.
What I have done in the last 10 years is to be what I call a universalist which means for me to take the best out of each. That is to say love peace,kindness, harmony and unity for all.
That is today my premise for friendship and brotherly and sisterly love for peace based on the realities and actualities of the natural state of life. I wear around my neck a Hebrew symbol of Life.
The idea of God or Allah or Elohim or Deus,etc. Is all one and the same by different names in many languages around the world.
My definition of God only means force and power;which still is not understood by man with the exception of what he thinks he knows. Therfore man has tried to give and to define as he would like in order that he may have some means to control and to establish what he thinks is a law of order for what he claims to be civilized. Being civilized depends on who is doing the definning and for what purpose.
I have borrowed from the word Deus and have taken those letters D.E.U.S. AND MADE THIS DEFINITION WHICH IS;
DIALECTIC-ECLECTIC-UNIVERSAL- SCIENCE.
AND THAT THE S ALSO STANDS FOR SALVATION.
SALVATION ONLY MEANS TO PROTECT FROM HARM.
IN MY CABO VERDE CULTURE WHICH IS PART AFRICAN & PORTUGAL AND OTHERS. WHICH IN FACT I THINK OF MY PEOPLE AS BEING A KALEIDOSCOPE OF HUMANITY.
WHAT I DO GIVE CREDENCE TOO IS THE 10 COMMANDMENTS IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHO IT WAS THAT CAME UP WITH THE IDEA IT GOES BACK EVEN INTO THE MANY SUTRAS OF THE BUDDHIST.
I WILL SAY THIS THAT I AM VERY FOND OF THE TEACHINGS OF BOTH THE BUDDHA & OF CHRIST.
I ALSO THINK INTERMS OF A,B,C,D,E. ALLAH -BUDDHA-CRISTO-DEUS-ELOHIM.
AT THIS TIME I THINK THAT IF ALL THE MANY PROPHETS MALE OR FEMALE WERE ALL SITTING AT A ROUND TABLE THAT THEY WOULD INFACT CHOOSE CHRIST
CEO OF THE BOARD.
CHRIST JESUS WHO BY THE WAY HAS MANY NAMES IN MANY DIFFERENT LANGUAGES.
I AM ALWAYS BOTHERED BY THOSE WHO SAY HE WAS A CHRISTIAN WHEN IN FACT HE WAS NOT AND HE DID NOT TEACH CHRISTIANITY.
TO CONCLUDE MY THOUGHTS ARE THESE THAT ALL THE YEARS THAT EMMAUNEL(YASHUA)(ISA IBN YUSEF)BETER KNOWN AS JESUS WAS MISSING,MY STUDIES SHOW THAT HE TRAVELED WITH BUDDHIST MONKS,AND UPON HIS RETURN HIS PHILOSOPHY AND PERSPECTIVE HAD CHANGED AND FOR THAT HE WAS PERSECUTED. PUT ON THE CROSS BUT DID NOT DIE,WAS TAKING DOWN,NURSED BACK TO HEALTH AND HE ESCAPED WITH HIS FAMILY TO INDIA. END OF MY STORY.
IF WE TRY TO LIVE ACCORDING TO HIS TEACHINGS OF LOVE,PEACE,KINDNESS,UNITY AND HARMONY WITHOUT ONE OR THE OTHER TRYING TO BE SUPERIOR AND TO BE HUMBLE WE COULD START A NEW MOVEMENT OF WHAT IN MY MOTHER TONGUE CREOLU WE CALL MORABEZA. WHICH MEANS KINDNESS LOVE TO ALL AND MUSIC IN THE AIR.
THIS IS WHAT JESUS MEANT WHEN HE SAID IN MY FATHERS HOUSE THEIR ARE MANY MANSION.
JESUS SAID I AM THE WAY,THE TRUTH,AND THE LIFE:
NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHERS,BUT BY ME.
HE SAID:"THINK NOT THAT I COME TO DESTROY THE LAW,OR THE PROPHETS: I AM NOT COME TO DESTROY,BUT TO FULFILL. FOR VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU,TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS,ONE JOT OR ONE TITTLE SHALL IN NO WISE PASS FROM THE LAW,TILL ALL BE FULFILLED. CONTINUE TO READ MATTHEW CHP 5 VERSE 19 ONWARD.jESUS WAS A GREAT MAN.
JUST SAY I AM THAT I AM.
WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO FOR PERFECTION,BUT I SALUTE ALL WHO ARE TRYING INCLUDING MYSELF.
10 COMMANDMENTS
HE ALSO KNEW THERE WAS NOTHING INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE ENJOYMENTS OF LIFE. VERY HUMBLE AND VERY SIMPLE. WHAT SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT?
A TRUE DISCIPLE OF CHRIST FOR MODERN TIMES.
NO I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN I BELONG TO DEUS.
BUT IF YOU WISH FOR ME TO SAY THAT IAM TRYING TO BE CHRIST LIKE OK,BUT THEN I MUST SAY THAT I AM
ALSO A MUSLIM WHICH ONLY MEANS THAT I AM TRYING TOO SUBMIT TO THE WILL OF DEUS (GOD)(ALLAH) ALLAH MEANING THE ALL IN ALL AND(BUDDHA) BUDDHA MEANING ENLIGHTENMENT. THERE IS ONLY ONE CREATOR FOR ALL.
BY ANY OTHER NAME A ROSE IS STILL A ROSE.BEING RESPONSIBLE AND RIGHTEOUS IS THE BOTTOM LINE. NOT SO EASY IN THIS CRAZY WORLD WE LIVE IN.
MANU SALAH
AKA IMAM RABBI SALAH MATEUS de AZIJAH
Posted by: Manu Salah at July 19, 2006 08:26 AM