Marc Perkel Rantz

Marc, gimmie some sort of citation I can't just run of this picture you gota gimmie some proof.

Is that you Josh?

yes, but I can not prove anything like that, its like me making up somthing like george actually served in the military and faught

I thoroughly appreciate your inability to run with something that you cannot link to some kind of factual proof. I still think that everyone is asking the wrong questions.

Hey Josh, here's something you might be able to use:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x654437

Thanks charlie!

You're welcome...

Okay so the wings are something you get when you fly... the ribbons are stating that you have gotten certain qualifications...

Marc where do you get the idea that Bush did not earn these things? We all know that Bush was a pilot and that there are qualifications that each service member must get. Its not like he is wearing a ton of metal... just ribbons.

Charlie,

The link you posted SHOWS that Bush did indeed earn TWO RIBBONS. The two he is wearing, Small Arms Expert Marksmaship and the National Defense Service Medal. It also shows that the wings he is wearing came from this Pilot Training.

-Jes

First thing's first Jes: I though you said you were done with us? That make you a flip-flopper. I'm not sure you really understand how one earns there wings. Or a scuba bubble for that matter. After a said amount of dives, jumps, etc., wings are earned. What part of line 24 of Bushe's ARG22 National Guard discharge form don't you understand: NO awards are shown. Look at the page more closely before you come here. If I am correct, you are like most Democrats or Republicans that I know: They only see or hear what they want to see and hear. Also, why do you defend this man so much? Does his greed for oil make you proud to be an American? Does his 'honorable' actions of not denouncing the Swift Boat for Liars impress you? Have you not noticed the connection between his administration and those vets? Because of him and his Swift vets, it will now be the norm to question every veteran about his medals. One of Dole's purple heart was given to him because he threw a grenade, which bound off a tree and back towards him! I think from now on, I will be carrying a copy of my DD-214, just in case anyone's questions whether I earned those medals and ribbons...

And Jes, mind your grammar/spelling/punctuation. Gotten? Don't you mean received? Hey, if you can rag on my lack of using the shift key, then by all means I can do the same to you.

Jes if you really supported bush then you would know all about medals because you would be in Iraq, right? If you support bush's war for greed then you should join. I mean maybe you could save a decent person by taking one for the team. Do you really understand what The war on iraq is about? Do you know WHY we are fighting? please join do your republican side a favor and join.

Wait a minute. The Drudge report should not be used as a source of news but this thing called Democratic Underground should be? HMM!

I think anything can be uses as a news source, as long as you balance it out by reviewing other news sources. But I think most stories that portray Bush in a negative manner will not in up in the mainstream, like that news bit of former governor of Texas who admitted to helping rich kids (including Dubya) getting in the Guard during Vietnam.

It's funny Wilks that when you have nothing to add, you'd point something out like that. Boy, you told me. Put me in my place. What's the matter? Your monkey is slowly being proved for the fraud that he is? So you can't defend him now, so now it's time for childish antics? Then again, you are still a child...

Charlie, I could be with you on the Wilks thing, but this has to be a two way street. Name calling goes both ways or it doesn't, bad spelling goes both ways or it doesn't. And pointless posts go both way, or they don't.

As far as Wilks' monkey fianally being proved a fraud. There is no PROOF of Wilks' monkey being a fraud.

If either one of these two candidates is a fraud, they both are. One is not a bigger fraud than the other. The dopes are not the people who support Bush, and the dopes are not the people who support Kerry. The dopes are the voters who gave us these two candidates.

you're right on that. but i think W is a fraud, as well as Kerry. And it's not that Vietnam thing. There doesn't seem to be much of a difference. They both seem to cater to the establishment, which does not include the citezens of the US.

I was being sarcastic with Jes. She ragged on my lack of using the shift key, I thought I'd raz her a bit. :)

But personally, I think Bush is the bigger fraud. I know Kerry is using his military record as his crutch for his campaign, but to have an administration question him when the majority of them did not serve (student deferments, etc.) is, in my opinion, chicken shit. To not directly denounce those ads, it's a shame. Ive seen dirty politics before, but this takes the cake. And it also deters from the main issue: who is qualified to lead our country? How about focusing on important issues. What about the other candidate? Are Bush and Kerry the only ones who are running? Does have to be a Democrat or a Repulican to be able to qualify to run this country?

Wilks, do not forget Colin Powell in your list
Here I'll help ...

Secretary Powell was a professional soldier for 35 years, during which time he held myriad command and staff positions and rose to the rank of 4-star General. He was Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs from December 1987 to January 1989. His last assignment, from October 1, 1989 to September 30, 1993, was as the 12th Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the highest military position in the Department of Defense. During this time, he oversaw 28 crises, including Operation Desert Storm in the victorious 1991 Persian Gulf war.

"I would say that in a Bush administration the military complex is well represented."

Hello,
You might find this interesting:

This is a photograph published on the Presidential Library site of George H.W. Bush. We can clearly see that in this photograph, George W. Bush is wearing an Air Force Outstanding Unit Award (AFOUA) and a Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon (SAEMR) just below his pilot wings, however, on line 24 of his NGB22 National Guard discharge form dated October 1, 1973, George W. Bush has no awards listed.
So to finally solve the mystery of the Air Force Outstanding Unit Award, I contacted the Air Force History support Organization. I requested all dates of all awards of the Air Force Outstanding Unit Award received by the 147th Fighter Intercept Group and the 111th Fighter Intercept Squadron. The answer I received was shocking. This unit had received this award only once. The dates of the award are as follows quoting directly from the source at the AFHSO:

147th Fighter Interceptor Group AFOUA 1 Oct 73-30 Sep 75 DAFSO GB 164/77

111 Fighter Interceptor Squadron AFOUA 1 Oct 73-30 Sep 75 DAFSO GB 164/77

This states explicitly that the units received the Air force Outstanding Unit Award for the time period from October 1, 1973 to September 30, 1975. George W. Bush’s discharge date from the 111th FIS and the 147th FIG was October 1, 1973. Clearly, these units did not receive an award of the AFOUA until after George W. Bush had been discharged, and well after the date the photograph in question was taken.

This means, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that George W. Bush was photographed wearing a ribbon he clearly did not earn.
Found on:
http://www.awolbush.com/awards.asp

I just found out that Admiral Dewey never earned those two big gold brushes that he wore on his shoulders. Who cares?

Why are all of you guys trying to make out like the military service of John Kerry puts him above George Bush. Bob Dole lost the use of his arm in the war and he could not beat the draft dodger from Oxford.

To say someone is the worst is a subjective statement. I will except that as your opinion.
Offer me a better candidate and I will vote for him or her. Kerry would be a worse President than Bush. That is subjective, it is my opinion. Even the kids at MTVs MVA figured that out when they BOOed Kerry's daughters last night (not every teenager thinks like Josh).

Bush is the FIRST President to have something the magnitude of 9/11 happen. He is the FIRST President to be fighting the FULL GLOBAL DEFLATIONARY FORCE. The recession was in FULL SWING prior to Bush getting elected, let alone taking office.

More people are out of work under Bush, but more people are at work. Simply because, there are MORE people. More people are without insurance, and more people are with insurance, because there are MORE people. Making statements that say something that fogs the truth is wrong. The President does not create jobs, people create jobs. The President does not give insurance, businesses give insurance. With one execption ... The office of Homeland Security created a boatload of jobs. Here are two links to help educate you.

http://boards.historychannel.com/threadedout.jsp?forum=30048&thread=300021073

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/2/25/171833.shtml

He did not start the war on war credentials, he started the war on the defensive after we were attacked. He actually had the HARDEST Presidency in the history of the United States, that said, he did as good a job as any. For that, he has my vote.

You may be right, Tom, by why attack a country that had nothing to do with Iraq? And don't say someone from Iraq had morning coffee with someon in Al-Cicaida. That does not presume a link. If I have lunch with a femal co-worker, does that mean I am cheating on my wife? It would be wrong to presume, assume, etc. Most of the folks involved in the 9/11 attacks were from Saudi Arabia. And as for doing a good job, how is divigin the country doing a good job? How is catering to special interests a good job? How is disregarding the seperation of church of state a good job? How is sending our troops ill-prepared (no body armour, etc.) to a war that has cost us billions in dollars and thousands in live a good job? prisoner abuse? Personally, of what I've read, pResident Bush is the President in the history of the US. And by worst, I mean that he has failed the people, the citizens of the US.

Ummm, Charlie... I thought you were in the military once upon a time... Also, I didnt say I was done with this website, I said I was done with the conversation that was going on.

Seriously, I am a military wife and I can tell you, when you graduate from something like Air School and become a pilot, you get Frogged. That means you get the wings. You do not have to do a certain amount of jumps or anything like that. You just have to graduate from school.

The metals... umm you guys cant read a bloody military record for shit. It says clearly that prior to his seperation from the military he had been awarded those ribbons. The part of the documents you are looking at is not where that information would be located.

And Joshua, I am a girl... I am not military material, my husband is. I have served my country very well as a military wife. What have you done? NOTHING because you are just a kid who does not contribute to society, so STFU!

You people attack President Bush's military record because you have NOTHING ELSE TO STAND ON. Get over it. You guys realize that your candidate sucks. He wont win. So pull your heads out of your asses and realize that this information your party is trying to put out is just lies. If you tell a lie long enough, people start to actually think it is true.

Done with this set of posts because you have nothing to stand on...

"If you tell a lie long enough, people start to actually think it is true." Same goes with Repulicans.

You must not be a smart military wife, because men and women in the Armed Forces receive medals, not metals. :)

Why are you so angry? And for the record, Bush's military is not the only thing people have written about. And as for Kerry, I don't support him either. Why don't you go to one of those ultra conservative sites where there are like minded people like yourself. Why do you insist on coming here and spewing anger? Although Tom and I may not agree on some things, I value his opinion more than yours because they (his opinions) are more level-headed.

The only things you want to read are those that flow neatly through your tunnel vision. Any news or comments that distorts or blurs your narrow concept of the facts, you label as liberal bias or lies. Take off the blinders, get all of the facts, read all of the news, and look for the whole truth instead of allowing yourselve to be spoon-fed. Who knows, you might be surprised by what you learn.

And thanks for letting us know you're done with this subject. Don't want others to think you're a flip-flopper.

now we're hearing greenspan saying that, with ALL the money that has been put into SS, that the payments will have to be lowered? Why doesn't this surprise me. If anyone here has the time, read 'The Prince' by Niccolo Macheavelli. And also Tsang Tsu's 'The Art of War'.

"And Joshua, I am a girl... I am not military material, my husband is. I have served my country very well as a military wife. What have you done? NOTHING because you are just a kid who does not contribute to society, so STFU!"

Yes, you believe in the real republican ways, NOW YOU STFU AND COOK MY SUPPER!
btw anyone can join the army since a majority of women from 1920-1975(mostly 1965-1975) stood up for there rights you can now join the military no matter what race, creed, sexuality or gender. but I know you are a republican housewife at heart, so I will let you to be ownd every night by your husband and his fish.

OH and btw tom, It wasnt the kerry girls being boo'd it was the bush girls on the split screen, also the bush girls had the nerve to say THEY WERE AT the mtv movie awards, but they were being telivised from NEW YORK at a RICH REPUBLICAN PARTY.