Marc Perkel Rantz

This guy should be out building home for the poor. He is talking out of his ass, because his mouth knows better. The poll numbers indicate that Bush is so far ahead in the polls that his victory is almost assured. And even if Kerry can cause the post election havoc in Florida that Gore did, Bush will have enough electoral votes to win this election, handedly.

hmmmm "...won't see this story in the Republican controlled American press..." blah blah blah

How about that, it ran on the Associated Press, CNN, and an op-ed in The Washington Post.

I'm just a simple country boy from Ava, MO, but even I can read CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/27/carter.florida.ap/index.html

This is just one of the reasons that Jimmy Carter said what he did.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0927-01.htm

Not to mention that Republicans have a great history of trying to scare off minority and women votes.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/09/21/intimidation/print.html

As a final question. Have you ever worked with Habitat for Humanity Tomo? I don't think you should put it down unless you really know what the program is about.

Wills, I know what Habitat for Humanity is about. No, I have never worked with them. And I did NOT put them down. What I said was Jimmy Carter should be out building those houses instead of talking out of his ass. It appears that you have a slight reading comprehension problem. Jimmy's rhetoric is dangerous because it starts a problem that does not already exist.

As for the other part of your post about Republicans trying to scare of minorities and women. I was involved in Chicago politics for many years. Let me tell you that minorities are more intimidated INTO voting by other minorities then they are AWAY FROM voting by Republicans. As for the women part ... half of the people that I know are women, and politics has been my topic of conversation for most of my adult life, I have NEVER heard a woman say she was intimidated at the polls, or kept from the polls. Your comment is just as wrong as Jimmy's. Ridiculously wrong.

If you have never worked with them, how do you know what it's about? "Your comment is just as wrong as Jimmy's."

p.s. How that hangover feel today?

By the way, both Carter and Republican Gerald Ford made the report Carter is referencing when he says that the 2004 Florida election will see as many problems as 2000. They were asked to do so by the Republican Congress at the time. This also helped to pass the Help America Vote Act of 2002. Yet many of the provisions made in the Act have not been adequately funded- big suprise there- to implement them.

Of course you would say that Carter has no idea what he is talking about. I guess the Carter Center would have no idea about making sure elections are held in a completely democratic fashion, seeing as they have only monitored more than 50. (sarcasm)

p.s. His own words on it.
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0928-02.htm

Once again it takes a REAL AMERICAN like Mr. Carter to speak the truth. Florida is a backwater state full of booger-picking, sister-humping, homo-hating, nigga-hating, Bush-loving, red state redneck morons. Just like Tomocius.

I propose that we of the blue states secede from red and let those idiots fall back into the third world.

Wills, were any of those 50 elections that Carter monitored the one where Saddam received 100% of the votes cast? How could I possibly know what Habitat for Humanity is if I have never worked with them? It is called deductive reasoning. How could I know what they do in an operating room if I have never been in one?

Nuker, real American? Carter? Is that the same Carter who brought 15% inflation to America? The same one who's only response to the Iranian Hostage Crisis was flying a helicopter into the ground? Nuker, your spew proves that you are just another ZERO in the numbering system. I am sure that you do I real lot to make this country a first world country.

Ok Mr Condescending jackass, by the way there is a difference between condescendence and sarcasm. If you want the total list of elections monitored by the Carter Administration, why don't you do just a little bit of snooping instead of regurgitating ditto-head numbers. But here, I thought I would go ahead and take the couple minutes it might take you to find it and just post it here for you.

http://www.cartercenter.org/documents/nondatabase/electionssummary.htm

Oh, and it was 14.4 percent over his term. Between Nixon and Ford, the previous 8 years, the inflation rate rose 34.4%. So if you want to use the, "he inherited a recession/bad economy" arguement for bush, go ahead and argue it here also. He actually decreased inflation over his term from 5.3% his first year to 1.1% his final. I won't debate some of the flaws Carter had, but don't attack his character, because he has more than you ever will.

Marc:

Speaking of press neglect you failed to mention the 32000+ New York residents that double voted in 2000, voting both in New York and Florida. It was also reported that of the 32000+ "double voters" 69% were registered Democrats and it is highly unlikely that the votes they cast in Florida were votes that would "cancel the NY vote. This was not widely publicized because the liberal controlled MSM (Mainstream Media) want to continue the "Florida was stolen" myth. BTW is would like for you to post comments about Oakland suspending DUI Checkpoints because it is an inconvenience to illegal immigrants that get caught for not having insurance and drivers licenses. I mean a robbery charge or murder charge would be an inconvenience also are they going to suspend enforcing those laws next?

Crazy Dave

Now I have seen it all, conservative conspiracy theories.

Thanks for the hard work Wills. I looked at your list. It saddens me that Mr. Carter never got a chance to look at the Iraq election that yielded Saddam 100% of the vote. It saddens me that he never got to look at an election in Chicago. But based on looking at a few in Kenya, he has a good handle on what is going to happen in Florida in five weeks.(SARCASM)

Marc:

Speaking of press neglect you failed to mention the legions of space aliens taking over the Democratic Party so they can enslave the human race for their evil mind control experiments. this was not widely publicized because the aliens have already taken over the minds of the press. Why else would they be so blatantly liberal in their exposure of every single gaffe by our Glorious Leader, God Emperor Bush and puff up all of the misstatements by the satanic minion Kerry?

Your obvious ignorance of the facts is proven by your refusal to rebut any of the truth I have shown you in this post. All of you lie-berals need to stop your vile attacks on our Glorious Leader and focus on refuting any of the wild-ass tinfoil helmet theories that God-fearing Republicans are rightfully spreading about Kerry the Antichrist.

Trollphylactic: this comment is intended to be a parody of the BS coming from an admittedly crazy Repugnicant in the previous coments to this post.

The typical liberal rebuttal of the statement ! Use some sort of weird, totally neglectful of the facts, Michael Moore argument without even making comments about a report from a accepted news source ! Very typical !

Wait, what is your definition of an "accepted" news source? If the media is so liberal, what news source do you accept? I mean since the major ones all run the same idea of the story, except faux, which has the tendency to misinterpret or flat out lie. And what about Craig Unger, who is considered an expert in his field, do you not find credible?

Also, where did you find those numbers of 32,000 or more that "double voted"? I will not count freerepublic as a viable news source either. Which is the only link I can find making that claim, not in Florida and New York though. The "article" says Pennsylvania, and some blogger says 286 NY'ers voted in both Florida and New York.

Since the original article just mentioned duplicate registrations and concurrent registrations, how many people just filed improperly? Just because someone registers to vote doesn't mean they do it, ask tomo he "was involved with Chicago politics".

You have no grounds for saying that all these people actually voted twice, just that they were registered twice by the county or registered in two different locations. They cited only 50 instances of people voting under the same name, and that they had not looked at what political party the person had associated themself with. So who knows, half or more might have historically voted republican.

Oh and tomo, HE did not watch over a COUPLE Kenyan elections. HIS FOUNDATION watched over one, not to mention 51 others, but I guess all those countries had smaller populations than Chicago...

Well I do not filter out the sources that do not espouse my beliefs if that is what you mean. I think it was the N. Y. Post which considering the Jayson Blair thing is probably as creditable as NYT
would be but then again I am not a choir boy looking for the choir preacher !

Oh I'm sorry it was that Bastion of "Right wing conspiracy" Reuter's

Link
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:E2X8e1fKsiwJ:www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml%3Ftype%3DdomesticNews%26storyID%3D6037493+New+York+Florida+voter+fraud&hl=en

Thank you for the link, and I will keep that in mind. The only thing is that the people are registered, not necessarily voting. I hate to think that people are not fastidious enough to cancel their registration when moving, but hell, I still get mail for the guy who lived in my place a year ago. Again, they estimated that between 400 and 1000 people cast 2 votes, which is a lot, but is not 32000+. The key phrase there:

"The Daily News said it could not provide an exact count of how many people vote in both places, because millions of names are purged between elections. But the newspaper found that between 400 and 1,000 registered voters voted twice in at least one election, a federal offense punishable by up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine."

It doesn't specify just one election, it says at least one election so the number who actually committed voting fraud last election might have been below one hundred. Of course since they purge names, it might have been more, but you have to go with statistics on this. This also did not say which party people had voted for under the same name.

I am not trying to completely shift the blame, but shouldn't we have a system where if you register to vote somewhere else it voids the previous registration? It would not be that hard to make a national database so that such incidents did not happen. The only problem would be people with similar names which could be rectified by a couple of height and weight questions. Then it would be easy to find out if they had intentions on cheating the system, and if they had they could be punished.

Bush still wins Florida in newspaper recount
http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/04/04/florida.recount.01/

MEDIA RECOUNT: BUSH
WON THE 2000 ELECTION
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/media/media_watch/jan-june01/recount_4-3.html

Nuke Red America I like your style! I've been saying "SECEED" for centuries! Only problem is the red states appear to be in the south and in the middle parts of this here nation so how do we get together with our blues brother and sisters when they are on opposite sides of this great old divide? Ideological warfare can be tricky when we have old wax between our proverbial ears! DAMN what to do then?

Wills, the national database would be easy, simply by using a persons Social Security number. No two people have the same Social Security number.

Rambo, if all the people who wanted to seceed would go to one place it would be easier to accomplish. Texas is the only state that by its charter is allowed to seceed. Of cours that is Bush country. I would have no problem if the people from NY, California and now Illinois went off to Texas and became their own country. I would help you all pack if you needed it.

There is a growing gap between the actual facts and the facts that are popularly known, because the media can nitpick on what it reports, and because almost all Americans trust the media blindly. http://www.BushWatch.com/gorebush.htm is one of many good places to start in understanding that there is a lot more to the story than the "official version" that Mance summarized above.

The version that Bush had fairly won Florida is false, but at that time it was easier to sell it to the public, and the Bush camp simply yelled louder. A complete investigation would have taken weeks, and there was a lot of pressure to declare the election ASAP. Those Republican bastards have gotten away with the crimes they committed to tilt the election in Florida. When hopes of out-yelling the Republican spin-masters have grown dim, the Democrats, including Al Gore himself, reached a general consensus that for the sake of peace and stability they would rather yield. Bush looked like a kind of president who would only make Clinton and Gore look good by comparison, and they had 24 other POTUS elections in the new century to try to win. One day this nation will sober up from this stupor of the Bush Depression, but so far we're still only getting drunker.

Now, to the point of 2004. If the Republicans had nothing to hide, they wouldn't be objecting to international supervision of the elections. Falseness cannot be introduced through those well-established auditing processes, it can only be detected, investigated, publicized, and weeded out.

If this administration would allow auditing and no foul play was found, the people who are vocal about being screwed out of their vote in 2000 would, for the first time, have factual evidence against them. If they don't allow auditing and foul play is felt, a lot more people will stand up for themselves than did in 2000, because this time it's not so abstract, this time even the least political among us understand just how bad a bad president can be. Unlike their voters, the Republican policy makers aren't stupid, and playing public perceptions to their advantage is their top specialty. If they refuse to humor us with those monitoring measures, this is a strong indication that they have much to hide.

We're not talking about regular Republican corruption or white-collar crime here, we're talking about Tyranny. We're talking about taking the essence of all the good things you've learned about your country in history class and making it a great ugly lie. We're talking about you losing your freedom, and not even noticing that it's gone. And we're talking about taking things that generations before us achieved through perilous struggle, and rolling the stone they've pushed uphill all their lives back toward the bottom.

To quote Al Sharpton at the better of the two conventions this year: "Mr. President, the reason we are fighting so hard, the reason we took Florida so seriously, is that our vote was soaked in the blood of martyrs! THIS VOTE IS SACRED TO US! This vote can't be bargained away!" Those words resonate with great power in my mind to this very day.

The sanctity and dignity of having an uninfrangible right to vote is an issue that's very close to my heart. I came to America from Moscow, USSR when I was 11, and all through the Communist rule, believe it or not, we too had elections there. My parents would go to the polls and make a "choice": for one of the Communists or for someone else. The problem was that voting for "someone else" meant putting yourself at great risk, and some people did take that chance, but the Communists won 100% of the vote anyway. There was no real choice, just a ritual as meaningless as filling out your ballot and throwing it in the abyss, an illusion of choice.

America is better than that, but only as long as the voters hold the final inalienable power over their government, and not the other way around. Any single force that dominates the government, sooner or later, will also dominate the media and the courts as well. If that real choice, or our ability to make it freely and effectively, fades away ... America's massive GDP aside, are we really much better off than my parents were?

We are, but only by the virtue of being able to immigrate out of the country more freely. But my attachment to America has grown to be very great, and I am extremely resistant to the idea of having to give it up for a better Democracy in western Europe or elsewhere, even though my vote really would count there. I don't want to do that, not yet, I don't want to give up on America.

And I don't want to "let the chips fall where they may" and hope for the best, because history is littered with examples of how badly the chips may actually end up if you give up control. I consider it my Patriotic Duty to do everything in my power to uphold Truth, Reason, and Democracy in my country. And this means doing everything that I can to tell the world:

"I, an American citizen, do not trust my government to hold fair elections in all parts of the country this November. I implore of you to help all citizens of America, as you help in other countries, to remove all doubt that Their Sacred Right to Vote WILL BE NOT BE INFRINGED!"

~~Alex~~